[LettingGo]

They are filled to overflowing with guilt... my husband has called himself terrible, vile names over his guilt. He has flat out told me that he feels ok about himself until he gets around me and then he feels horrible because of what he has done and is doing to me and the kids. This is what RCR calls "healthy guilt". It is appropriate for him to feel it as a consequence for his behaviors.

Up until about 2 weeks ago, despite my best intentions, I have ADDED to his guilt by getting sucked in to proclaiming how hurt my feelings are... by crying (can't always help it) by getting angry or frustrated. At the same time MY reactions added to his guilt, they ALSO ALLOWED HIM TO JUSTIFY LEAVING. This is "toxic guilt" if I remember my RCR coaching... What his OW does is pile emotional blackmail "toxic guilt" on top of his healthy guilt. He knows he did his part to get involved with her and now "she can't live without him,blah, blah, blah" so he feels responsible for ruining her life if he leaves her. It is a backwards, stupid argument, but that's MLC.

Now, I've had enough practice to learn how to let go, plus I've learned my lesson and seen for myself that none of it changed anything except made it worse... SOOOO, the last couple of visits, I just shut my mouth and let him tell me how bad he felt and I didn't try and fix it. I let him "own" his guilt with no judgement. Tough love is actually VERY loving. I feel enormous compassion for him and it is separate from how bad I feel for me and the kids. It is all valid and true.

As for doing things for me around the house, I denied him for some time, but now decided I don't care if it relieves some guilt for him. I only care about getting furniture moved, gas put in my car, kids taken to activities, groceries bought and cooked on the grill, screen doors fixed, and the vacuum cleaner fixed. I think being able to "do his job" at home reminds him of how good "doing the right thing" feels... I think it shows him how he can alleviate the guilt. I know in contrast, when he is asked to do those things for OW and her kid, he won't get the same "good feeling" for doing similar tasks. At first he did, she made him forget about all of his failures because she didn't know, but now she sees the cracks and he thinks she's "dumb".

I have vowed to prop up my husband's self-esteem in a healthy way for a change. I told him the other day that our car mechanic had asked about him and then he went on and on about what a great guy my husband is, what a hard worker, devoted family man always trying to do the right thing for us and just being a really great husband and how lucky I was to have him... My husband said, "wow, that must have been hard to hear. Little does he know how you probably really feel." and I said "actually, I agreed with him and told him how I knew it was all true and how much I loved you." This WAS the truth... I really did feel that way when it happened! I also have OTHER true feelings about my husband, he is human and at his very worst right now.

[Storm Rider]

I have seen a huge amount of guilt in my sitch. To begin with, I think it is over the initial choices that they make. As the journey continues, unexpected issues, such as children's and our reactions, financial implications etc, that they had not really considered, cause new large waves of guilt to hit. The whole concept of replay is to ignore the guilt as much as possible, and look for external factors to self medicate and make them feel better, and take the focus off those thoughts. As the highs from the self medication work less and less, guilt comes in more and more again, eventually leading to the depression stage where it catches up with them. This is a very slow process, and the cycle may also occur throughout replay, where mini events and guilt trips catch up with them, but it is not the overwhelming hit that occurs later.

I also see a lot of compartmentalising as a way of dealing with guilt. Trying to keep different parts of lives separate so it is easier not to have to think about the big picture.

In general, their guilt is theirs to work through as part of their journey. I think our interactions can impact on it, especially for those MLCers who cycle back towards LBS a lot, or who like to talk to LBS a lot. If we keep pointing out what they are doing wrong and how they are hurting us etc, it will increase their guilt, especially every time they see us. It does not mean we cannot say this kind of stuff, but once, not often, and with kindness during delivery, rather than with us being a real mess (and I have done both!).

Everyone will process guilt in different ways. It is not until the second half of their journey (at least two years after bomb drop) that the MLCer is in a position to really work out what they want to do with the guilt.

Its a bit similar to our guilt journey during this process, I think. To begin with, we blame ourselves totally and feel guilt. Then we blame them (and OW). Eventually we find the balance, work out our part and work through that.

[justasking]

They start to have an insight into the mess they have made and so increase guilt at the awakening at the end of replay. When they slip into liminality (depression) and withdrawal the full impact of what they have done and the mess they have caused hits them full force. The guilt is overwhelming as they now realise it is their issues that have caused this not the spouse.

This is the time when decisions are made about their future. It is my understanding that during acceptance they acknowledge this and move forward with any decisions they made in depression/withdrawal stages.

Both the spouse and the MLCer have to learn forgiveness both for themselves and each other to settle the guilt and sadness about what they have done.

[OldPilot]

I'm pretty sure if my H ever evolved enough to realize that this might help AFTER he forgave himself he might do it but his personality at present still is he has a right to his own life.

I agree with him he does have a right to his own life.
You do too.
We all have a right to our own life.

Of course if we choose to share our life in marriage, that will come with certain consequences.

[whatever]

Guilt?  My H seems to have no guilt at all!  The ONLY inclination I've ever received that he has guilt is that this weekend when I told him I was trying to heal my heart, he acknowledged that I have more hurts to heal than he does.  H has completely
stopped doing anything around our home. 

[In this for ME]

Yes this is true..the understanding I have about my life is that everything I do it effects other people in my life so I take the time to consider the consequnces of my actions no matter how small I feel they would be.
I understood that the minute I gave birth to my oldest daughter that my life and my choices would effect her. I remember crying one night wondering why someone didn't tell me this before I made such a huge decision. I realize it wouldn't have mattered; I would have had to do it anyway..kind of like what he's doing now.
I have no marriage anymore due to his wishes for a divorce but there are children to consider and EVERYTHING he is doing is making them lose respect for his choices. Especially OW.
Which in turn effects me as even if I needed back up for any issue with them whatever he says they do not listen to.

[justasking]

Whatever

Your H is in early replay and therefore is 'happy and content'. He won't have any guilt yet until the rose coloured glases slip and he starts to relaise that his new life isn't making him happy but adding to his sadness.

Give it time. More patience by the bucket load........

[Storm Rider]

Whatever,

My H showed very little guilt for the first 12 months after bomb drop. I saw it after about six months, and he started to verbalise it after about 12 months. Its how replay works, at the moment he is running hard from you in the first stages of replay. Its when he pauses for a breath or gets stopped by real life catching him for a while that he will look back towards you and feel the guilt. Its a long long process.

[Trustandlove]

  Do not give them any reason to project their guilt onto someone else.

OP, can you elaborate here?  Of course what you say makes sense, but perhaps some specific examples?

Anyway, my H has shown guilt in cycles.  I am trying to work through what it is that I do that increases "toxic" guilt, and what allows "healthy" guilt -- or what I don't do, etc.

I DO know that I can't fix it, am just trying to get a better handle on this aspect of it, as it has only now become clear that my H does feel guilty; it certainly didn't seem so for a long, long time, or at least I didn't recognise it as guilt. 

Right now my H is at a point in the cycle which in many ways is like the beginning of MLC -- he is infatuated, he is again spending lots of money, he thinks that everyone should be OK with his choices.  The guilt has been beaten down for now; some of it showed when he talked about our son 2 weeks ago.  We're going to talk about son again on Saturday, it'll be short, I just want his perspective on one particular thing. 

I like LG's thoughtful post, on what she does, or lets him do -- I now see that what I thought was reconnection, the doing of things around our house and noticing things that he hadn't for ages, was all guilt, not reconnection. 

I'm sort of trying to take that attitude regarding son; I need help/backup regarding him and I need H to see that he is a parent, so I will talk to him about son rather than just get shirty and say I'll do it myself. 

Also, my H felt a huge amount of guilt a year ago, but instead of working it out just went on to seek yet another OW and more pleasureable activities.  I know that some of the things that I did then contributed to that, but also know that some of my responses couldn't have been better, so it really was him that decided to run again. 

This really is a long, long process.  More thoughts?  I will try to synthesise these later. 

[rediscover]

Although my H is in early stages, BD was less than 6 months ago I do see guilt.  He cries about the loss of relationship with his D12.  He asked my D9 if Mommy has had a break from them, and if Mommy eats dinner with them (probably cause I've lost weight) and when I asked to take money from his account for groceries and gas he said of course, take extra money.  Definitely nothing around the house.  He won't even sit down when he's there.  Very nervous.