[Anjae]

Hi Callan,

Thank you for writing some more about her book.

It does confirm my feeling that although we feel like our MLCers have all the control that they feel like they have none at all .

MLCers have no control upon anything or anyone. That is why they try to be so controlling. Thinking her garden was her enemy because it become over grown …talk about being lost and depressed…

Panda, the story you told may not be MLC. It is not uncommon for a man to have an affair, and feel a bit lost/depressed, when a child is born. It is also not uncommon for the wife (or a LBS) to be the one who says no.

...she dreamt that she saw her sister's H getting married, and then saw him traveling down A LONG, DARK TUNNEL WITH DEMONS REACHING THEIR HANDS TOWARD HIM... at the end of the dream, she saw him back with his wife and their girls.  Struck me... the tunnel?  It's the real deal...

Oh yes, the tunnel is the real deal!

[trusting]

However, the weekend that this man married the OW, the wife's sister had a dream, and this is what it was: she dreamt that she saw her sister's H getting married, and then saw him traveling down A LONG, DARK TUNNEL WITH DEMONS REACHING THEIR HANDS TOWARD HIM... at the end of the dream, she saw him back with his wife and their girls.  Struck me... the tunnel?  It's the real deal...

Yikes!  That is a scary picture, although sounds about right.

I have never experienced major depression or anything like that myself.  I have heard and read plenty about it and know that there is the idea that they have no choice about some of their behaviors.

I will admit I really struggle with this idea, maybe because I have never felt that way myself.  I know that they have no choice about having a crisis. I get that. However, I can't imagine that they don't have any control over choices they have made.

No need to debate on this.    I have "discussed" it a lot with other LBS (who don't agree with me).  I just struggle with it and know I may always, even if my husband does return.

[alwayshope]

Trusting - I totally get what you are saying.  It's so hard to KNOW for sure, isn't it?  In the return stories I have heard, the H always says that although he is lost in the fog, he knew what he was doing was wrong, just couldn't find his way out... Maybe when our H's return they can help shed some more light!

[Ready2Transform]

I know that they have no choice about having a crisis. I get that. However, I can't imagine that they don't have any control over choices they have made.

This is a really great way to put it, and no debate here on that.  I oved that baby, AH, and it seemed fitting here - let's just hope these guys come out of the tunnel without a diaper full of more drama. 

[Songanddance]

Trusting - yep agree but from my D's perspective when depression first hit her like a ton of bricks at 16 she ran away for months, drank, slept from couch to couch, touch and goes at home, was vitriolic about and to the counsellor we got her and didn't really return to the family per se till she was 18/19.
When she ran away I was given some very sound advice by my boss who had no children but was very empathetic...she said "keep the lines of communication and the door open"
I did and a transformed but utterly adorable young woman returned and now I have the best relationship with my D who has been incredibly insightful into sitch with H. My little psycho analyst  has had the guts to say to H - that he needed to leave and sort his head out however long that took. She would always love him  but she hated his actions and needed to have space from him.

Funny it wasn't until I have written this that I realise that that advice is so applicable now and for the last three months I made no parallel .....   

[BB64]

I was depressed for a very long time. 7 years all together. Chilhood issues of child abuse, not only upon myself but upon my brothers, too. I think that was actually the worst part; witnessing abuse, although it was on a different level to the one I was subjected to.
I was paralised by anxiety and negative thinking, so much so that I became agoraphobic.

I wouldn't say I was in a tunnel per se, but it does feel like your mind is stuck in a time warp, in fact, I find it hard to remember certain events which occurred during my depressive state. I was lost in time as I had nothing to refer to. For example: A fire errupted a few houses down from me.
My neighbour and I spoke about it a few months after it occured. I remember saying that it had happened 3 months ago. She looked at me in shock and said: No it didn't, it was over a year ago!

Also, one thing I would say is that my mind was pretty much broken, I knew that and believed it could not be fixed, that I was a 'freak', that no-one or nothing could fix me and that I was doomed to stay that way.

It wasn't until my H came back from a stag do abroad with his friends and said:
''I wish we could go away together''
It broke my heart to hear him say that.

I looked at him and said:'' I am so sorry. Come, on, let's get me out of this house''
And we did. I was petrified, I hadn't been in a car for years, the further I'd got was up the road, walking my dogs.
That day, we went everywhere, I could not be stopped.
This was 3 years ago this month.
I am now of course wondering if that was what triggered my H's MLC.
My new found freedom

[Trustandlove]

Having dealt with my own tendency towards depression, and having fallen a bit deeper at a few points in my life, I do know that when you're in it it colours everything.  The world really does look completely different, and if decisions are made based on that view they may very well be very bad ones. 

I remember saying to my H a few weeks or months into this that had he considered this (this was way before I knew anything about MLC), that I did know how it coloured everything.  My H has admitted to bouts of panic, not loving himself, and so on -- at various points during this journey.  But it's a scary place -- so he doesn't go there. 

[calamity]

...Panda, the story you told may not be MLC. It is not uncommon for a man to have an affair, and feel a bit lost/depressed, when a child is born. It is also not uncommon for the wife (or a LBS) to be the one who says no...

I understood that the birth of a child is one of the triggers of mlc.  It makes sense to me.

[Songanddance]

I had my S not long after my Dad died and was diagnosed with depression (although not as deep as some) 6 months later. H wasn't very supportive and totally pre-occupied with work and I could not have maternity leave as we couldn't afford it. So bingo - brief fling on my part for 10 days.
Not excusing myself or H but H has at least acknowledged this week that he now realises that he was not there when I needed him 15 years ago. He says he can't forgive me though......and now he's in MLC - god knows what is going through his mind,,,

[phantomstep]

 Thank you for this thread ! I read just about everything on this thread and everything is so eye opening . Everytime I read something new on this site seem like more eye opening than before.

My W seems like she is making it a little easy to think that she is going trough MLC , just by recent conversations I had with her.
I know she is not aware that she is going through it , but some of the things she says match up , like just yesterday we were talking about her getting that apartment in a couple of weeks and she said with tears in her eyes : " I know I will probably wake up in a few months and regret what I'm doing"  ( wow ).

Anyways , Just wanted to say that this thread is very helpful , just like the rest of this site....