[paradigmshift]

LP,

Wow, that clarification made a whole lot of difference. To be honest, their situation is somewhat similar to mine but maybe the triggers are different. My ex never really connected deeply with me on an intellectual or emotional level. When I tried to help him in his business I was brushed off, when I gave my opinion during conversations, I was dissed if I did not agree with him. We did not have the same dreams and goals. For years I was frustrated and depressed. I prayed for him to change. I prayed that he would truly love me because I felt he didn't. He cared for me, financially and by being around when I needed his help as a man. There's a difference. Jae might notice that in his ex-wife's behaviour. Something happened to her so that she now views men as merely a source of financially support. No love involved. Less sex the better.

6th year into our relationship I was estranged from my parents. The ex was starting to do well in his business so I requested for a year off work. Unfortunately I moved into a new apartment where I was tortured 24/7 for the next 3 years by a schizophrenic neighbour and nobody could do anything about it. I was under so much stress I suffered from anxiety and derealisation and severe PTSD for 6 months after I managed to finally sell the house. Those 3 years led to increased quarrelling between me and the ex. I felt the only thing good left in my life was, at least I didn't have to work. I wouldn't have been able to cope with it. I started giving in to whatever 'abuse' the ex dished out just to avoid confrontation. The less talk, the better it seemed. Sounds familiar? As long as he brings in the money. I relied on food and the internet to fill the black hole. Sounds familiar? Depression? Definitely. In essence, I was in my own crisis, seeing no happy future ahead. Just hoping the ex would make it and my life would get better. What else could he have given me?

After I sold the house I decided to move abroad for 18 months. I thought that would give the ex the space he wanted and for me to get a 'new' life. Unfortunately, the quarrels did not stop. Then BD.

But as opposed to Jae's wife, I am getting a life. I feel as if a weight has been lifted from my shoulders now that he is gone. And nope, no man to take care of me so I guess that makes a difference. Im fact, I have a phobia of him coming back before I have become fully independent. There's so much I want to do that he would have criticised or at the very least, given no moral support.

[Kenai]

Well said xyzcf! I think it is so easy to get back to the circling thought of what LBS could have done/did/was not doing, especially when the blame of the MLCer on us. I also go back and forth with these thoughts because suddenly I start wondering if it is a MLC at all but he just somehow fell out of love, or something, and then you go through the movie again and again... Although most of the time I end up with the same eventual thought about HIS CRISIS, ie. some kind of depression, dis-ease I cannot help.

Tsunami... Definitely it is! It is also sometimes difficult to see it here in the middle of the storm but... as they say, the night is the coldest just before the sunrise...

Kenai.

[Anjae]

J also talks about his actions during replay but not much about the words he used to his wife. I know MLCer's memories are shot but do they really not remember the lying they do, the secretive planning and furtive behaviour, the coldness and silence, the angry, vicious words they use, the anger they show, the potential, as in some LBS's cases, for violence?

From a depression/mania point a view it makes sense they do not remember words and actions done during MLC. Mr J has no recollection of having being violent. He told me that he did not remembered it (and since he did not monstered when he said it, I know he was telling the truth), but if I said he had been violent, he believed me. The brain forget a lot, if not all, that has happened under certain situations.

Is there an ex MLCer who can remember that and help us understand? 

Maybe one whose crisis was less severe? Really do not know.

I think these high energy, very reckless ones have the propensity to crash quicker ("quicker" being a relative term). With the really high energy, I believe one will see multiple OWs, alcohol, drug use, or manic spending. Maybe all!!!   These very reckless behaviors can bring rock bottom sooner than lower energy mlcers.

That would depend what you call quicker.  We have plenty of truly manic high energy MLCers going full steam after 5, 6, 7, 8 or more years. One would think they would crash and burn quick, but some seem to never do.

They have many lessons to learn. And during replay they seem to learn nothing.

They learn zero during Replay. If they learned a thing they would not keep repeating the same thing over and over and over. They are in escape and avoid mode, self medicating with all sorts of stuff. No time to learn or thing and stop is not an option.

Besides all the bs of being controlling etc etc. that everyone gets, my h's complaint ultimately was that I had grown so much and become someone my h couldn't keep up with.

Your husband is right, we grow too much and become someone they cannot keep up with. And that, in my view, often leads the LBS to no longer want the MLCer in our lives. We are so much ahead of them that there is no space for a person that has not grown and changed.

Agree with  xyzcf, we where this that and those. If we were those that and this they would still have their crisis. Nothing we could, or could have not, done would prevent their crisis.

[paradigmshift]

He thinks she became too much like him, tried too hard to please him, tried to give him things he did not want but that she thought he wanted, she made him the focus of her life instead of having a life of her own outside of her position as his wife. 

This as well. I tried too hard to please my ex, changed my goals and values 180 to be in sync with him, but I did that because we would otherwise be quarrelling all the time. I made him the focus of my life because I felt he did not accept me as I was. I started spending so much time trying to make him love and accept me and keep hitting brick walls that I had no time to 'get a life'. I did many things for him, which similar to Jae, he did not want. I took that as him not appreciating whatever I did for him. I tried everything and nothing I could give he appreciated. Cooking? Yup. Laundry? Yup. etc etc. I thought, well, there's nothing I can do for him to make him appreciate me then. He would never appreciate me or love me. And I gave up.

Before BD, my ex mentioned that he wished I was the person he first knew. Funny thing is, he never valued the person I was when I first met him. He wanted that person because it elevated his status, more so then anything else. I made him feel good. (He was in the dumps).

Also, the soap opera addiction is a form of escape into a fantasy world as the real world hurts and disappoints more than it satisfies. No energy or desire to do anything? Depression. A sense of hopelessness.

The wife not being interested in going to the award dinner? Well, my ex never let me get involved in his business. There were many things he did and decisions he made that he kept from me. I felt no connection to his successes.

The not wanting to take up the hobbies I once loved? Well, who has time for hobbies when my life was in such a mess.

I believe for Jae and his ex-wife it might now be a chicken-and-egg situation. Someone has to take the risk and make the first move or call it quits.

If the ex-wife finds that Jae hasn't 'changed' (I am not referring to pretzeling btw, but as a result of the better person he has become because of his crisis - I hope), she most probably would remain as she is unless she becomes enlightened on her own and decide to GAL regardless. He can choose to wait for her to come out of her crisis on her own (which he seems to be doing), or he can offer her a new and better relationship, and watch her become the woman he first fell in love with once again. Otherwise they may be just incompatible and have to figure out how to work around it or cut their losses.

Hope it helps.

[Songanddance]

They learn zero during Replay. If they learned a thing they would not keep repeating the same thing over and over and over. They are in escape and avoid mode, self medicating with all sorts of stuff. No time to learn or thing and stop is not an option.

That's it exactly as far as I am concerned. I see my H escaping and avoiding as the replay actions seem to change. One minute he's off to OW- next he's on his own - next he's working 12 hrs solid in his studio - all to avoid facing the reality of what he's done. I prefer to consider everything he does as escape and avoid and the sad fact is - that has always been his coping mechanism.
He couldn't face his father's death as a teenager and locked himself in his room, he became an alcoholic, he lived in a variety of places before having a nervous breakdown and his first GF who became his first wife "saved" him. (That may have been a QLC as H said not long after BD that the symptoms of his "feelings in his head" are the same but stronger and out of control) 
He cheated on his first wife and when that marriage fell apart he bought a house to do up together and she filed for divorce. He has bought umpteen cars since I have known him, 2 caravans, 2 trailer tents, 2 planes, 2 boats (tried and failed 3 times to sail across the Atlantic) - all material things to make him "happy" to no avail.
I reckon my H has been in denial and a form of escape and avoid since he was 16 so that he can pretend his dad's death never happened. He feels guilt that he couldn't get his dad medical help in time. The last 27 years with him were always unpredictable but then again I thought I was ying and he was yang. It seemed to work.
Perhaps I had been a rescuer to his victim mentality all along and then MLC hits big time. Who knows?

I will not take any responsibility for his MLC; I will however take responsibility for my behaviours and attitudes before and after BD. I too had changed before BD and now, in hindsight, some of that was not good for me or for the R. Now I am changing again and I almost feel grateful that MLC has happened because I am so much more aware of what is good in me and what needs to go!

What H does is his concern now. I will just be the best me I can be.

[CallanG]

I just wanted to thank LP and Moment for posting these snippets of information into the mind of a MLCer . It may be hard for us to hear some of the things that these men say but it for me it is incredibly helpful to understand some of the behaviour.

Callan

[holdinon2hope]

Paradi, my H told me the same thing before BD that he wanted the loving, caring, me he used to know. Never took it that I was a doormat for him back then. Guess that's what he actually missed.

I know my best friend says I got a back none n stood up to him n H didn't like it so that's why H left. Who knows though..just saying I could a wrote your post cause that was me.

[paradigmshift]

Holdin,

Oh yes, the being a doormat. All previous gfs of his left after a few days or months. I think I broke the world record because I allowed myself to be miserable. That's why I think the ex will realise eventually what he has lost. A pity he won't be coming back to a doormat no more.

To add on to my previous post, the ex used to say to me: What have you contributed to the relationship? That left me speechless. I was devalued and made to feel useless. I read this somewhere:

"The more unkindly a wife is treated, the less attractive she becomes. She loses pride in herself. She develops a feeling of worthlessness. Of course it shows."

[holdinon2hope]

Yes it shows..for sure. I haven't ever been this big n when u feel lime $h!te n worthless you do what helps with the pain n for me that was eating. However I'm working out n trying to change that aspect also.

[Pixiegirl]

Paradi, my H told me the same thing before BD that he wanted the loving, caring, me he used to know.

H told me he wished we could go back to when we first met. And that he wished I was like that again.
I could have cared less if I dated him or not. I agreed to a first date by telling his sister "ok I guess I'll go to dinner with him I don't have anything else to do" LOL So really H you want me to be that way again?