[The lighthouse]

Congratulations LisaLives.  Wishing you wonderful new memories and happiness.

Going back to S&D's and Callan's comments about their H's awareness that something isn't right in their heads.  Three years before BD when I threw H out for taking out yet another credit card behind my back and maxing it out.  When asked by his D (6 at the time) why he hadn't come to see her or phone her he said to her something isn't right in my head.  In hindsight this was a very revealing comment.  He obviously knew something wasn't right inside his head way before BD.

[toomanytearss]

Mine also said that when he left and he is now in therapy  - he chose to go, I didn't even know about it - and he says now that he wants to come home but not until his head is right and that it's a slow process. 

[kikki]

The third was the most interesting albeit upsetting..
H has decided that he will go and see someone about his head. He said that he feels as though he is living in a permanent dichotic state where one moment he thinks or does one thing and the next he tries to negate it. He gave an example.. he said he had the "mad idea" of getting a motorbike and driving across America (we are in the UK) and yet he knows that would be a really stupid thing to do.
He said - his feelings are out of control and it frightens him because he knows what he should be doing.
He stated that he will see more than one person and this was the most telling he will only stick with the person who gives the "right advice"..

He said his brain wiring feels all wrong and twisted and that he doesn't understand why this has happened. 

Just an interesting little moment.

Going back to S&D's and Callan's comments about their H's awareness that something isn't right in their heads.  Three years before BD when I threw H out for taking out yet another credit card behind my back and maxing it out.  When asked by his D (6 at the time) why he hadn't come to see her or phone her he said to her something isn't right in my head.  In hindsight this was a very revealing comment.  He obviously knew something wasn't right inside his head way before BD.

S&D and the Lighthouse, my H has also often spoken of something not being right in his head too.
Great that your H is actively seeking help for it S&D. 

[Dagolark]

What is a dichotic state? *scratches head* Is it like bipolar?

[Songanddance]

Dichotic from dichotomy.  Two things at the same time but causing a deep dilemma in emotional/moral or legal terms. There is no easy answer to either and each has its own merits and weaknesses.  Ultimately the concluding choice is not made based upon logic but preference.

[a]

Hi LisaLives

Congrats i wish you happiness.  And you are so right none of us know why we make the decisions we make and that also goes for the MLCer.

We need to find acceptance that we will never know and become comfortable living with the uncertainties of life.

take care moment

[lawprofessor]

Good Grief.  (In reference to a few posts back before LisaLives post)

I don't believe I or anyone said we as LBS's needed to change because the MLC spouse had a crisis.  It is an opportunity for us to examine ourselves that perhaps we would not or may not have had the opportunity to do before.  If you are happy with yourself, all your actions, words, behaviors, stay the same.

Neither did I ever say we could have prevented the crisis.  (Basic 101 that we did not break it, can't fix it.)

Neither did I say we could shorten their crisis in an overall sense.  What I did say is that we do not have to have any part in lengthening the process or making it harder on them.  Karma and God, a higher power, will ensure that they are punished enough.  Heavens, the MLC alone is punishment enough from what I have seen.  Imagine the h*ll of having squirrels in your head, constantly changing confused thoughts that never seem to stop!  We do the work on ourselves, let them see us moving ahead or not.  That is the part they are responsible for-their choices.  We can send positive ripples out into the world, or negative ripples, but just by existing the ripples are sent.  How they choose to react to the ripples or not, that is also their choice. 

Neither did I say something we did triggered it-their crisis.  (Basic 101)    But sometimes things come together to make the perfect storm, called life events.  How each of us deals with those events is our own responsibility, but that does not negate the relevance of the events. It is a starting point to see where issues lay especially for those who are just beginning the journey.  New posters often look back and try to figure out when the crisis began and the triggers.

Neither did I say GAL was to be done for the benefit of the MLC person.  (Again, Basic 101 that I did not think had to be highlighted in my comment.)  Yes, the work is a survival mechanism to live through the tsunami primarily but there can be unintended consequences.  Some of the unintended consequences are that as the MLC person undergoes a crisis transition, it can and perhaps often times triggers a midlife transition in the LBS.  I believe it was Heart's Blessing that detailed this in her writings.  Just as a wave crashing against a shore causes erosions to the shoreline or rocks and then other ripples in the water.  Changes occur in us, our families, friends, lives, jobs.  As we change, others have to change how they interact with us.  The old way no longer achieves desired results perhaps.  It is what various parts of the approach here detail and teach us.  (For example, change how we react to monster, and get different result.)  So if it works one way, than why not in the reverse direction?

And I am not looking to blame anyone so there is no circular reasoning per se although it is circular in that a relationship is by definition a circular construct.  Least of all do I blame any of the spouses who have lived through this any more than I blame myself.  It is a beginning phase many of us go through.-the what did I do wrong to cause him/her to not love me anymore?  But I had to realize I was not a perfect person either.  I refuse to lay all the blame on another as I can only control myself and judge myself.  For me it is part of healing to forgive and have compassion for a MLC person, as well as to rationally look at what I contributed to the events.  They (MLC people) have enough to deal with, without adding criticism or guilt from me.  I will not be the victim of the MLC person in my life, either, which is what I was when I continued to be mad, continued to spin from his nonsense, and continued to blame him solely for the situation.  It was nothing but a waste of my time and my life.  I took responsibility and owned my mistakes.  (This is not to say that any of the mistakes justified what they do to us, but that the mistakes happened as I am only human, and for those I am sorry.)  You have no idea the weight of the guilt I have seen in these people's hearts and souls.  And if there is the SLIGHTEST chance that Genius' crisis, (like Jae's and others here who I have spoken with on the tele), could be extended one minute in h*ll because he is waiting for me to forgive him or do anything else, I choose not to stand in the way even though I have grown too much and there is too much water under the bridge to want him back in my life.  The h*ll I have SEEN the MLC person go through is horrendous.  Depression is a contagious thing and feeds off others and itself.

If you don't believe we have an impact on them, to each his own.  Different opinions are what makes this board a great place to come to vent and share, to postulate theories, to look for answers and strength.  But then how do you explain the part of HS in which we are to be the lighthouse?  With no lighthouse, is the ship at sea likely not lost in the fog for longer than if the lighthouse is spotted to lead them safely to shore?  (Yes, the ship captain has the choice to follow the light or not.)  How do you explain the checking up on us that some of them do?  How do you explain some returning after 15 years+ as Dreamer's relative did?  Perhaps they know when we are ready and able to handle the nightmare part should they wish to return?  Was this why Jae choose to go through that section in my home instead of at ex-wife's home where he was welcome to come?  So he could return to her a more whole person?  I don't know.  Did he think I was strong enough to handle his devils?  Absolutely.   Was I strong enough before Genius's MLC to handle Jae's devils?  Absolutely not.  God gives us nothing we cannot handle I suppose, and has his reasons for all that happens.  Some will return, some will want to return and fail to do so, some will stay lost.  But we soldier on, hopefully better people for having this journey thrust upon us.  And I know I will never have definitive answers to these questions, but for me, the theory is interesting.  If it does not apply to your MLC spouse, so be it.  After all, they are all different in some ways as our experiences here are the same and yet also different. 

It is my opinion and sincerest hope that God does not/will not allow Genius to return to my life in any form until I have done the work and become strong enough with His help to handle any situation that arises.  If that never happens (his return) I can accept that.  I cannot express to you in words the nightmare the end stages are for some of these people, the hardcore, long timers of which I seem to have been blessed with 2, but I have seen what I believe to be the worst of the worst with Jae.  How differently I would have reacted if it were my husband, and that would have been just exactly the wrong way to do it. 

The MLC person is responsible for themselves, their actions, their behaviors, their words.  I believe that is abundantly clear in my threads re my actions with Jae.

Again, Basis 101-The MLC person would have had the crisis whether we as LBS's were perfect spouses in every way.  I would imagine that there are a variety of reasons at the base of each one's crisis FOO, addictions, personality disorders and mental issues, poor coping skills, immorality issues, fear, various weaknesses etc. as well as external things that happen in average daily lives including familial deaths, births, job losses, job promotions, empty nests, money problems, retirement.  Yes, Jae would have had this crisis as would my Genius.  But I know before I worked on myself that I said and did some things that were very harmful, hateful, and nasty.  Based on my experience with Jae, some of those things have the potential to hold things up in the healing phase should he ever get there.  For those things I feel remorse and I see the same remorse in Jae and his ex-wife.

I went through the stages that so many do when they first come here-looking for quick answers, believing my spouse would go through quickly, crying jags, begging, arguing, thinking he would respond to rational arguments, hiding from the world, snooping, thinking my situation was dramatically different from the others here, getting mad, hurling insults because I was hurt, the disbelief that this could be happening, the depression.  Then I moved on and did the work.  It is how it worked for me, perhaps for you, perhaps not.

I realized that I WAS NOT a perfect person.  I had done some things wrong in the relationship.  I was not the person who I wanted to be.  I did not like some of the behavior patterns in my relationship.  I was not happy either.  I assumed that he was going to be there forever.  I had made him my world, my knight in shining armour, and when he failed to live up to that I was angry and hurt and disappointed.  I kept rose coloured glasses on.  I assumed we had the same goals and understanding of the future.  I was angry and had no compassion for him.  I had to face and accept and even embrace that there were things I did not like about myself and my life.  So I made a list of issues, and took concrete steps to deal with those things.  Each month I have a small list from the larger list of issues and goals that I work on, new things I want to try, etc.

Those are the things I choose to work on changing and am still doing so as we are all works in progress. 

I would never have done that but for Genius having a crisis.  I believe that I am a better person hopefully because he had the crisis. 

Jae's ex does not wish to change anything about herself even though she has expressed to me many times that she is very unhappy, that there has to be more to life than this, that she is scared to change anything, that she is still mad at him, that she still wants him to pay for what he did to her, that she still loves him, that her life is a mess, that she purposely pushes his buttons to see if he will fall back into crisis, that until she is certain he is a whole man she is not interested in working on herself, that she is angry that he has gotten his life together, that she liked it better when he was sick because she looked like the one who had it together, that she still does not know who she is especially now that she is not the ex-wife of an actively crazy person.  I understand her fear, her mistrust of him, and that she is torn because she still loves him, and is likely depressed also.  I hope for her to have happiness at some point in the future but she appears to me to be stuck just as he was stuck. 

I only hope we all come out of this happy healthy people at peace with the world.

Best to you all!  I am leaving for my holiday weekend soon and wish you all a safe and happy weekend.

[DaRealist]

I just read this and the previous thread.  Very interesting points of view.  Special thanks to moment and lawprofessor!

[FI_Foolish_Idiot]

Lord! I was asked to read this thread... perhaps it was penance. (joking) It's really long.

These are my opinions drawn from my experience which isn't nearly as lengthy as any folks in this thread...

I personally feel that the MLC tag is really generic that covers a potpourri of Spousal types.

You have the Hedonist who's going out with lots of OW... addicted to whatever.

You have me who has, to his dismay, lost a major communication channel to my Mother and substituted it with a EA with an OW (older) instead of my wife.

The LBS may have influencing factors on the MLC... I've stated in past that although I wouldn't admit it, I believe that I remember every interaction with my ex over the last two years (there weren't many). When we Separated, I ran. It was emotionally painful for me to interact with her. And, judging from what I observed in her, the same was true as well.

What did I do? I danced... That was and to some degree still is was my addiction. I'm broadening my pursuits into other areas to become better balanced.

I agree with a lot of what HeartTattoo and LawProfessor state about MLC.

I am responsible for my actions and what I did and I wouldn't wish this to happen to anyone.

Now, unfortunately, I'm late to work... My therapist stated to me that people tend to go through seasons of trying times. I'm in one of those seasons and work is part of it. Not asking for empathy or pity. It's just a fact. I'm fortunate to have a job... that I used to love.

-fi

[Anjae]

When we Separated, I ran. It was emotionally painful for me to interact with her. And, judging from what I observed in her, the same was true as well.

Did you expect it not to be painful? Did you expect it was not painful to your wife? What have you done/felt if you saw it was not painful to your wife? Would you feel relieved or angry that she was not upset with the situation? If she was not upset with the situation would you have not run?

I always have troubles understanding why the MLCer, who inflicts so much pain upon others runs when they see the pain they have inflicted. Does the MCLer truly thinks their actions will not have consequences? That their spouses, children, friends would not be hurt?

It is like the MLCer wants to do whatever they want to do and nothing/no one should be in pain because of it.