[LaughLoveLive]

I guess I have been pretty lucky because both my IC and our MC were ok with the concept of MLC. In fact it was the MC who first suggested MLC to me, citing Jung's work. We had some email discussion about MLC after the marriage counselling fizzled out. That's what sent me on the hunt that ended here at HS. My IC was a little more circumspect and didn't use the term MLC but talked of a "life crisis" while still linking it to all the factors we consider identify MLC particularly the FOO issues.

I've also explained MLC to my parents and my daughters (age appropriately) and it all makes sense to them. I haven't used the term MLC with friends but over the months conversations with various friends have shown me they understand H changed drastically, made illogical decisions and choices, and, as one friend said recently "interpreted a normal lull in the marriage as 'it's over', saw what he thought was greener grass so he left, and now he doesn't know how to come back" all with no prompting from me.

I think people are aware of MLC, just that it has become a parody so it isn't taken seriously. People joke about it because they are worried it might happen to them or to explain odd behaviours or decisions they make at transition points in their life that they are worried about being judged over.I did it myself when I couldn't decide what to do after having my D13 and decided to go back to school, I laughingly told people I had a bit of a MLC. Little did I know!! Conway's book does discuss  the life crisis women often have in their 30s ...

My Hs MLC was pretty easy to identify - he bought a sports car (black though, not red) and had an affair with his secretary. They now live together. When I tell people about the secretary they just roll their eyes. If it was a different woman I think his decisions may have more credibility with others, but the secretary thing is such a cliche that they instantly understand there is something odd about all this.

[Ready2Transform]

MLC is, probably, like drinking and smoking, it generates big bucks.

Truth!!  And Viagra and Cialis are already treating the part of the crisis that most sufferers worry about.    What else is there to study?

[LisaLives]

The question here is "how would your life be different if society recognized MLC the way you wish?"  What are you looking for that you are not finding?  And I think I know the answer, but A CURE is not to be. 

There is A LOT of medical and academic research on MLC.  I know, I just threw out a knee high stack (I am short, but it was over a foot high!) of just academic papers related to MLC.  And that does not include the books.  Almost every book that talks about personality development, or life cycle addresses some form of midlife change, transition, adjustment, etc.  And books about men are virtually unanimous in its recognition. 

One thing you HAVE to remember is that when you go to see an IC, or an attorney, whatever is up with your spouse is NOT their concern, and especially attorneys will steer away from that topic.  They are NOT ICs and bill by the hour, they want to take your case, win your case, and get paid for your case.  The more you want to talk about how f'ed up your spouse is, the less they will want to be involved--remember attorneys like to win, and if you try to give them more and more evidence of their irrationality, etc., it will seem less likely they will win.  There is a great article I think I can still find by an attorney, for attorneys, on divorcing a narcissist, THAT is the only thing you need to give your attorney, because in a nutshell, whether they were before the MLC, or will be after, they are one in the battle, and it is a great piece. 

And ICs will also try to deny MLC because giving credence to some mysterious "condition" that is out of your control, and you characterize as something that might be fleeting, is NOT going to help them help you make it through your own life.   That is why Alanon can be so helpful to LBSs. 

And then when it comes to family and friends and acquaintences, there are lots of reasons, but one of them is also partly that they know the truth, and not all of it is good.  I know a couple men who are clearly having MLCs who left their wives--but I also know, for better, or worse, their wives were VERY difficult.  I still would never say they were right, and I do believe they will pay for it down the road, BUT those sweet, compliant, and hot young things actually, on a ledger, stand pretty equal to their wives when viewed through a lens of "what is good for ME, right now?" 

And, as I sit here, five years out, I still wonder if my ex actually had an MLC, if he was always a closeted NARC, or if he just, truly went through an MLT and objectively assessed what he wanted for the rest of his life and his AUTHENTIC self decided that having a wife who watched sports and was in his field was truly the most important thing to him--that while he TRIED to hold "family" values, he had to face his truth.  HOW could I ever KNOW, and will her ever actually KNOW? 

This is where you have to do THE WORK, the Byron Katie WORK?  Is it true, how do I know it to be true, what would happen to me, if it were NOT true, and what do I do with that?  Standing or not standing is a choice you have to make regardless of MLC, regardless of the progress through the tunnel, or any indicators.  And DETACHMENT is the ONLY thing that will save you, whether you stand, or don't stand.  Research does say that 50% of men come out of crisis happier, and 50% are worse, and that has nothing to do with whether they are going to stay in their Ms, or not. 

I don't think society ignores it as much as we might sometimes think.  I just think it is difficult to diagnose, has many other symptoms and co-occurring conditions that complicate the diagnosis, and in the end, has no cure, or preventative, so why bother...  There are lots of studies that show correlations for MLC, BUT we ignore those.  When I was 24, what credence should I have given to studies that said men who had fathers who had MLCs, had NARC mothers, and a affective focus on the future were at significantly higher risk of MLC?  How many people here would have? 

In the end, it is about YOU, regardless of how you got where you are right now, with your attorney, your IC, your accountant, it is about YOU.  What do you want to be, to do, to achieve.  What dreams are you going to live out if your partner NEVER comes back?  That is all that matters to them and that is all that should matter to you, until and unless your MLCer shows appropriate signs of being willing to do the work to be a part of YOUR life.  Love and light, ll   

[Anjae]

The question here is "how would your life be different if society recognized MLC the way you wish?"  What are you looking for that you are not finding?  And I think I know the answer, but A CURE is not to be. 

nderstandment and support from the legal, health system, social security, etc, like the one other mental illnesses (in my country addiction/alcoholism are considered mental illnesses) have. It makes a world of difference in many ways.

Drug addiction and alcoholism do not have a cure. Yet, they are recognised conditions. And why isn’t a cure for MLC possible since it has to do with depression? It is all about biochemistry.

I have no idea what matters to an IC, never went to one, but for a lawyer what matters is money. And, for those of us who have legal aid, and have to go to court it would really be different it MLC was recognised. At least under my country system it would.

Our dreams and asking why society does not recognise MLC are two different things. We can live our dreams and still want to know why.

[LisaLives]

Anj, You're missing my point.  Even depression is debated and difficult to diagnose, and it takes action on the part of the afflicted to lead SOMEONE to make that diagnosis and treat it.  And yes, addiction is considered a disease, but even if you go to an IC for help with an addicted loved one, they will tell you exactly what they would tell us, which is to detach.  And there are no truly reliable cures for depression or addiction, and even if the treatments work, the person has to be willing.  There will NEVER come a day when an LBS will be able to drag a spouse to a clinic and have them diagnosed and treated for MLC--they would have to admit they are having one...  So, the answer is the same as if your loved one is resistant to treatment for any ailment that affects your life--detach, let it go.  Love and light, ll   

[OldPilot]

the person has to be willing. 

I think this is the most important part!

Thanks LL!

[superdog]

Excellently put LL. Nodded my head all the way through your post. Well done.

Sd
X

[stayed]

Exactly Lisa Lives... EXACTLY!  If your partner isn't willing to get help, then the gig is up.

Good points, as always! Thanks.

Hugs Stayed

[Anjae]

The question of this discussion is why MLC is so largely unrecognized by Society, not what the LBS must do if their spouse is having a MLC.

So, yes, I'm missing your point. Because I'm not approaching the question from an emotional point of view nor from what a LBS most do, but from a research/science point of view. And from that point of view MLC is not that complicate, it is related to biochemical factors. Therefore, from a strictly scientific point of view, the matter is solvable, or, at least metigatable.

Depression also isn't that hard to diagnosis. Bipolar may be, but any GP can diagnose depression. At least its most common forms.

The issue of a LBS being, or not being, able to drag a MLC to a doctor is, again, different both from why MLC is so unrecognised by society and from having a scientific interest in what causes MLC.

So, for someone like me, the being or not being able to take the MLCer to a doctor, is totally different from my interest in the neurochemical and/or hormonal, issues that cause MLC.

It is true, there are no reliable, or at least no 100% reliable, treatment for addiction. As for depression, it depends of what type of depression we are talking about. Situational depression is treatable, PPD also is. With major clinical depression often a person has to live with it throughout all their lives (but so does someone with high blood pressure). But the condition can be mitigatable. Not just with meds, but with lifestyle changes.

However, none of the above changes the fact that, in the future, it may be possible to treat all sorts of depression, addiction, prevent MLC, etc.

Heck, there are teams of scientist working, and having results, on prevent people from ageing as well as scientists working to modify the information of cancer cells by giving those cells the information that they are not ill, but healthy cells and, in doing so, reverting the process.

Also, since some of us have MLCer who did knew they were depressed, some of which were given standard treatment for depression, that does not seem to work, at least not early on or during Replay, if doctors looked differently at MLC they may have a way of mitigate it.

[rover77]

I think MLC is more well known than is officially acknowledged..I've talked to more than a few MH professionals,attorneys and judges..and in small groups  they smile and nod and get it right away..but it's bad politics for them  to  talk about it in public..it would be called sexist etc etc...even though WE know it involves both genders...sexual politics is very territorial..for example...parental alienation has been officially denied for years...but as more fathers are accused of it..and with  more shared custody demands, the more noise that it is (suddenly) real