[barbiedoll]

Do they know the damage they have created in the women that have loved them? Do they know that physcologically the injury is permanent , I will always have some measure of triggers, some struggle with trust , some sadness to know other hands have touched him .. and he wanted that. I cannot imagine how the lies will EVER be forgotten , the knowing he is capable of being another person. I have googled this and get little information.. apparrently it can take time for men to process emotions . I believe 100% I would progress along the road to forgiveness if I saw a true recognition of my pain. If I could see an epiphamy of what this has cost me. Maybe I do not recognize how a man shows remorse. .. I am certain it is different than women. He has said he is sorry.. I want to spit. It is so far from adequate . What am I missing. Without this ... I am stuck . I see that as a missing piece of my healing and an endless struuggle to make him "feel" what he actually did to another human being. The one that loved him so...

[forthetrees]

The only way he could feel what he did to you is for you to do it to him. Would that make you feel better or save your marriage? There is a difference between empathy and compassion. Empathy means you can feel what the other person is going through. Compassion adds to that some sort of positive action- it does seem that your h is investing time and effort in the course of positive action. He most likely does not have the fortitude to actually go through what you´ve been through. You are the stronger person and will continue to be so. Can you live in a partnership where there is disparity in your emotional strengths and coping skills? Maybe over time he can learn more skills from you.

[in it]

I firmly agree the only way they can feel true emapthy is to have the same thing happen to them. The high road and self respect not getting caught up in escaping the way they did. Stay true to you.

Remorse? I'm not sure what that would ever look like. Guilt? That's easy for them as that's where they might operate from.

You leaving and taking time for yourself with no contact when you go will leave him to deal with things.

IMHO Now is the time to have some compassion for yourself and not him.

[sparrow]

Barbiedoll- I am right there with you! My h isn't able to acknowledge how much pain he has caused or show remorse. I have been working on forgiveness. This is a definition I have found. Forgiveness is giving up resentment against someone and surrendering your right to retaliate. Unforgiveness is the deliberate, willful refusal to give up resentment and insistence that someone pay for a wrong that was committed.
I am working and struggling with this daily. It's hard to not want payback or view the other person as understanding and showing remorse for the pain they caused. But the bitterness ultimately hurts you not them.

[superdog]

There is possibly one view that is overlooked when it comes to forgiveness etc and that is for those of us who do not hold any faith or belief in the ability to spiritually forgive someone.

For me i find that i do not need to forgive someone to not carry hate or bitterness in my heart. I do not forgive my h, maybe i never will.

Barbiedoll, if you need certain actions from your h in order to forgive then that would be for you to decide there is no pressure to forgive. 

It may well be that you forgive eventually but doesn't mean that you can live with the person who caused those permanent damages in you. I believe that some of the damage is permanent, given that memories are permanent, loss of trust for them may well be permanent too. If remorse never comes then they do not earn it.

I am of the school of thought that respect is not given automatically whether it be as a partner or as a manager of people, similarly with forgiveness i believe it is earned not a right. I can live as me without the need to forgive abhorant behaviour toward me and my lived ones. I may well walk away instead.

I have read quite a bit about remorse and what it looks/feels like and someone who cannot see beyond their own feelings will never consider you. The pain is all theirs not yours.

Like others say unless they felt all of this they will never know and never understand, nor will we understand whatever pain they were feeling when they did this. The twain shall never meet.

We are all different and my views are possibly nog mirrored by anyone else, but i would also not expect forgiveness unless i had worked hard to prove that i regret how i hurt them and have learned from it.

Sd
X

[barbiedoll]

Thanks.. always makes me think. Forgiveness is something i am working on. I truly understand it is for ME... not him. My husband believes "actions" are more powerfull than any words at this point.. he thinks all the nice things, gestures, keeping his word, surprising me , working hard on the marriage , working with counsellors and being committed to us and or marriage are all signs of guilt and rmorse. He still relies on his actions to relay that message as he admits "he is still learning to express his emotion". He thinks long and hard before he answers me. He says he will talk to his counsellor about this. He says he feels guilt and remorse... he has apologized, he equates his action to a complete mental breakdown and was walking in a trance tring to feel "anything at all. ". I get confused. I think just being a human being would allow you to truly show remorse.. just naturally. The counsellor said i would be shocked to know some people have to "learn " how to show some emotons. He is one of them . It does not come "naturally" to some people. Hmmmmmm? I am confused by that .

[Hmmm]

I can understand that. My father shows no emotions apart from happy and angry.

He was raised by alcoholic parents. I think it's quite normal!

I'm imagining my H is in an asylum at the mo. It helps me cope with not knowing where he lives or what he is doing!

Keep going

[Ready2Transform]

I get confused. I think just being a human being would allow you to truly show remorse.. just naturally. The counsellor said i would be shocked to know some people have to "learn " how to show some emotons. He is one of them . It does not come "naturally" to some people. Hmmmmmm? I am confused by that .

I would harken a guess that the H you knew before this crisis hit was not someone who would have needed to "learn" remorse.  It feels like cognitive dissonance I would think to then have some stranger explaining to you that your H is one of those people!  Would have been different had he shown issues in the past, I would think.  I still question whether counselors understand the nature of this thing, and if they do more harm than good sometimes. 

I do tend to agree with superdog, that this is just going to be a long process without a 'trigger' that will fix things.  I think we'd all benefit from knowing that and taking the expectations off of ourselves to be saints and embrace our own humanity, too. 

[in it]

I guess in order to express remorse they would have to admit they were wrong..made a mistake ..had a lapse in judgement somehow. It's up to the one who has been betrayed to decide what is acceptable. And no just an "I'm sorry" doesn't cut it.

They weren't just hit by space junk; they made a choice.

 And frankly? I haven't encountered many men that are willing to do that. Being "right" seems to be more important than anything else.

 What might motivate them is when they have lost or may lose something.. you might see them scamper. Make an attempt..do things, say things, whatever may produce the desired result. Some sort of desparate last ditch effort to "win back" or keep what they have.

That's when you look to yourself to ask if YOU want them. Not the other way around. That's why time alone by yourself without them is very important.

I haven't noticed any men posting on the thread.

[Thunder]

barbiedoll,

There is a good article on this site called Blind to Destruction...I think that was the name.

Maybe someone can find it for you.  It really helped me.  Sometimes they are not as blind as you think they are.

As far as expressing remorse, some do more than others.  They may feel the remorse the same but some are not good at verbalizing it.  Maybe it's a personality thing.  I don't know.
I suppose most of us, deep inside, want them to grovel.  Make up for all the hurt they have caused us.