Hawk, there have always been rules about rudeness, cussing, name calling and stuff like that. We watch all of the threads for overly aggressive behavior. When we see a member becoming worked up, their anger and bitterness obviously taking them over, we gently try to lead them out of it. Sometimes we have had to become quite assertive and warn them that their ANGER AND BITTERNESS is beginning to take them over and will eventually destroy them.
With women, we know that if we control the depth of their anger, we often prevent an increase in resentment, when we prevent resentment we save them from bitterness. Bitterness is a real killer. I came so close to going down that road and when I remember it, I see darkness and "COLD"!
I am not as familiar with men. I'm not as confident about trying to rein in your anger and bitterness, as I not completely convinced that expressing, feeling and enacting those feelings, is something men need to do, more then women.
What you are describing is a very fundamental difference between men & women. I am generally speaking of course, as not all men & women are the same; let's just say the majority.
Women:
- prefer to TALK there problems out in a more group / community manner. You will seek out your girlfriends and discuss things socially
- tend to feel their emotions more; will allow their emotions to be part of the problem-solving process; will make a choice based on how they "feel" at the time.
Men:
- prefer to WITHDRAW and think their problems through, often analyzing multiple solutions before making a final decision and emerging from the withdraw
- are more able to disconnect emotions for logic; solve problems logically and logistically.
- IF....big IF....we need to confide....we sure as hell don't want a woman. we prefer other men. The only exception would be a marital issue or direct issue with the woman. And even then, we will confide in other men first typically.
^^^^^This is a lot of why there is so much conflict in marriages. We problem-solve using two completely opposite methods. Typical scenario is man comes home, had a bad day at work. Woman wants to talk & "share" her day & his. He doesn't want to share; he wants time to decompress. She pushes the issue, he doesn't respond. She tries to escalate. He reverts to the......wait for it....MAN CAVE! After a period of time she follows and attempts to engage. Eventually there is a melt down, shyt blows up into an argument, when all he wanted was for her to STFU and give him some alone time to process his day / issues.
It is this fundamental difference (emotions versus logic), in my opinion, as to why there are less standing husbands, or we "give up" standing. We look at it from a logical / logistical view. we check off our list (just a short list example of the big ticket items):
- Made changes she complained about - check!
- Tried talking to her (usually from logic) - check!
- Am I trying to show her I do love her and care, but no results? - Check!
- Attempted therapy - check!
- Am I still supporting her financially / materially, but she is giving nothing back in return - check!
- She cheated on me - check! <------------------- generally a deal breaker with all but the most caring men!!!
Conclusion: I did everything I could; didn't work; time to move on. From this point, cut all emotional ties, it's a business deal, done! Yea, I know, it's MLC, you can't fix it. No kidding....I can't fix it.....logical & logistical answer, move on and don't waste the next 5-7 years of your life & resources!
Anyway, back to the point, and what I believe is Hawks biggest complaint / concern, we generally want to process our thoughts and vent with other.....MEN! Hawk asked the general question of why women feel they need to interject themselves in male business! ruggedendurance even hit on it point blank in the old thread that shut down; women want men to talk things out and grow, but then stick their nose in the garage and want to control the dialog. You demonstarted this clearly by suggesting we put a warning or disclaimer in the post. NO! NO! NO! You were warned in the first post upon entry into this thread so deal with it! Also something to point out; men (not all just generally speaking) are not that offended by crudeness and foul language, it's just a method of us expressing ourselves, nothing more, nothing less!
When the men saw a thread entitled "MAN CAVE", we all got excited; finally, a place for MEN to discuss MEN issues without female interjection, but then saw that, even though warned, women were still allowed in and it lost it's luster. This post clearly describes this to a Tee:
But anyway and l do mean no offense to the good intentions of you guys and the thought/idea is very much appreciated and l do really enjoy knowing the women through the forum to but what's wrong with wanting a place we can truly call our man cave and truly talk anyway we damn well please and any subject. But we may as well scrap the title or else put a paddock on the place like l suggested though, unfortunately men still won't speak freely here as it's as many women as men and just too much bs to bother unfortunately.
Am I saying women stay out? Nope, not at all! We can't make you and if you are truly here to learn, then so be it. Just leave your feelings at the door!! I personally am not afraid to speak my mind and, if you get offended, tough shyt, you were warned on entering!
Maybe to make this easier on all, and maybe meet in the middle, here are some recommendations:
- Watch, listen learn! In other words, STFU!
- If you do have a question, ask to the point, then STFU and wait for the answer!
- If you are offended, and feel the need to "correct" us, please don't; instead just STFU for a change!
- If you have any doubts whether what you are going to say or ask may be interjecting too much in the MALE discussion, then please default to....you guessed it.....STFU!
If I offended; sorry, you were warned at the "door"!
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MAN CAVE 2