[terrified_in_TN]

Expanding on my above comment a little further...

  We are obviously all different, but I see a lot of similar traits between us LBS guys:  We forgive a LOT.  More than a typical person.  We have high hopes our spouses will come to their senses quickly.  We have enormous amounts of patience.  HOWEVER...once that line FINALLY gets crossed-there is no going back.  The emotions get turned off, and we become DONE, in most cases FOR LIFE.  I don't know if you call it anger, or indifference, but for ME (and I suspect a lot of the guys as well), when we become DONE, not only is r not possible, but not even a friendship.  We choose to ignore the MLCer/exMLCer for life for the sheer reminder of the painful memories.  Friendship is generally not even an option.  We don't HATE our spouses, we just choose to not have anything to do with them.

  You do hear of those divorces where couples just come to the realization they are not "compatible" and split up, yet have the capability of remaining "good friends".  I think in *most* cases, with male LBSers and MLC spouses, that is not an option.

I could be wrong.  YMMV.  These are just MY opinions.

-T

[Thundarr]

Great discussion, and I'd like to chime in if I so may (I am qualified due to being male after all, and this seems to be one of the only places that doesn't work against me.  Ha!).

Patience - Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.  Actually even less of what you see, maybe 10-20%.  My XW took a few books and some DVDs along with about a week's worth of clothes when she left.  College kids take more to the dorms when they go away for the semester.  In fact, she's even brought back (snuck in even) some of the DVDs along with a couple things she bought AFTER moving out.  It's all crazy bizarre, and if I didn't see most of it with my own eyes I would never believe it.  I know for a fact that if it was me who wanted out of the marriage I damn sure would have taken as much as I possibly could, if for no other reason than to keep the next person from getting my stuff. 

OP and all the other bros here - Unlike women, we men are not all alike (jk).  We each have to process this in our own ways and for many of us our egos are so smashed that we lose all sense of self in the behaviors of our spouses.  We think because they cheated on us that means that we were lesser men, or that we did not satisfy them enough.  We believe we need to bulk up more, earn more money, drive a fancier car or live in a fancier house and if we don't then that is why they left us.  We struggle with this and try to tell ourselves that we can easily replace them, just as my dear departed brother used to say "The best way to get over one is to get on top of another one."  That's what us men are supposed to do, right?  But.....we don't.

We end up hurting and crying, even begging (admit it, guys, we all did).  We hurt much longer than we should and we don't hit the bars looking for hook-ups the next weekend.  As a female poster once said here, "Women mourn; men replace."  That's what us guys are supposed to do, right?  For some of us it wasn't until we found ourselves in this situation that we found our true selves; we learned to define what it truly meant to "be a man."  I know my XW's "friend" lawyer boy is no man.  He lives with his W and goes home to her every night, all the while carrying on whatever he has with XW.  He cowers in the shadows and blocked my calls around the time of BD.  He avoids me at all costs and checks up on her when she's with me.  He fears me, and rightly so.  He broke the bro code.  His consequences will be most dire one of these days.  Justice will be served.  But that is not what will make me a man.  No, I'm already more man than he will ever be as I have stood for my family for almost 4 years now and taken on challenges that far too many men run away from as quickly as they can.  I'm a man and even something more - a Dad.  Not a father, a Dad.  No disrespect to those who do not have children, but you'd really have to raise one to know how much sacrifice and pain it takes.  I don't run from it, I embrace it.  But I'm told that I still need to work on myself.  But, if this is not about me then why do I need to work on myself?  Wasn't I good enough already?  The answer is far more simple than most of us realize.

My good friend DGU explained it to me better than I've ever seen it written.  "Working on yourself" is another way of saying "Focus on you and not her."  We ARE going to evolve during this no matter what we might think.  We DO work on ourselves or we would all have blown our brains out by now.  We've had to become better men than we ever dreamed as I'm sure I'm not the only man here who once said that I would kick my W to the curb if she ever cheated on me.  We learn that love and marriage are about more than sex and getting our needs met.  It's about commitment and sacrifice, dedication and devotion.  I highly doubt any of us here were bad husbands or that we treated our wives like crap.  They would have been gone long before, and we would have moved on quickly.  I'm sure some men do say "Good riddance" and hit the singles scene but we're not wired like that.  We are men of honor and integrity and hopefully are passing along our values to our sons.  After all, the odds that they too will have to deal with something like this seems to be increasing daily.  We can't stop or control that, but we can do our part to make sure the definition of a "real man" isn't just one more casualty in all of this.

[Thundarr]

Expanding on my above comment a little further...

  We are obviously all different, but I see a lot of similar traits between us LBS guys:  We forgive a LOT.  More than a typical person.  We have high hopes our spouses will come to their senses quickly.  We have enormous amounts of patience.  HOWEVER...once that line FINALLY gets crossed-there is no going back.  The emotions get turned off, and we become DONE, in most cases FOR LIFE.  I don't know if you call it anger, or indifference, but for ME (and I suspect a lot of the guys as well), when we become DONE, not only is r not possible, but not even a friendship.  We choose to ignore the MLCer/exMLCer for life for the sheer reminder of the painful memories.  Friendship is generally not even an option.  We don't HATE our spouses, we just choose to not have anything to do with them.

  You do hear of those divorces where couples just come to the realization they are not "compatible" and split up, yet have the capability of remaining "good friends".  I think in *most* cases, with male LBSers and MLC spouses, that is not an option.

I could be wrong.  YMMV.  These are just MY opinions.

-T

Very well said.  A few weeks ago I found myself suddenly getting extremely angry at XW.  I reached a point where I honestly didn't even want to hear her voice, much less see her in person.  Years of pent-up anger just exploded like a pressure cooker (reference to earlier post) and I cut loose on her.  How did I feel afterward?  Like I had just broke the camel's back but did not care at all.  I could easily see myself telling her to kiss off for good and enjoy the rest of her life without me.  As I look back I see that probably HAD to happen and that it may actually work out differently in an ironic way, but just as much I realize that I don't care if she DOESN'T come back nearly as much as I used to.  Sunday was the SuperBowl and we watched it together on all but one occasion since meeting in 1990.  For the past 3 years I had invited her to the "SuperBowl party" the kids and I always have at the house, but this year?  It never crossed my mind to invite her, and when it did my thought was "Oh Hell no."  Inviting her over was the last thing I wanted to do on such a happy day.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

DJ, my wife's animus is her inner masculine side, my anima is my inner feminine side. When we met I was at the same developmental level as her animus and vice versa. So it felt like we completed each other. Individuation is the process of developing your self so that you don't need another to make you feel complete. As I grew I no longer matched the developmental level of my wife's animus. Because of my growth, it's possible for me to feel complete (although lonely) with or without my wife, but it makes her feel incomplete when she's with me. This is why broken people attract broken people. The OM makes her feel complete. But if she goes through the growth that is a normal part of the MLT she won't need somebody else to make her feel complete, she'll realize just how broken the OM is, and she will hopefully be attracted back to me because of the strength I possess from being complete and because of our history and basic compatibility.

[MeNow]

It's true that generally speaking I don't want much to do with W but honestly, the main reason is because of hurt. I think the closer I come to being happy and content with my own life, the less it hurts.

I'd like to get to a point where I could be happy for her and could even be friends (maybe)... That would tell me I'm over her and she cannot hurt me anymore. I don't want it affecting my life forever.

[terrified_in_TN]

It's true that generally speaking I don't want much to do with W but honestly, the main reason is because of hurt. I think the closer I come to being happy and content with my own life, the less it hurts.

I'd like to get to a point where I could be happy for her and could even be friends (maybe)... That would tell me I'm over her and she cannot hurt me anymore. I don't want it affecting my life forever.

Honestly MeNow, that does sound soooooo good.  I just don't think I am built like that, and don't think I will ever be; no amount of "self help" is going to change that about me.

Again, I have some unique circumstances, and I look at things vastly different than most people.  Had things have happened a little differently, then r would be possible, and even a friendship.  Cutting through all the BS and getting right down to the nitty gritty:

If she needed to "sew those wild oats", sit me down, talk to me...lets have an intelligent conversation.  Go have fun, I will hold the fort down, and be here when you get back.

But the need to blow to hell our entire lives is something I can never ignore.  Lies and deception stating there isn't anything more going on when there CLEARLY is:  Check.  Finances ruined:  Check.  Family torn apart and choosing sides:  Check.  Nasty Divorce:  Check  Being mean as hell when I have been NOTHING but nice our entire r:  Check.

Bottom line:  Check MATE, and I am DONE.  She now has the privilege of joining that very very few select group of people in my life that "crossed that line", which is VERY HARD to accomplish with me.

-T

[sleepless]

I don't want it affecting my life forever.

Yep, trying to wish it away just isn't working much for me either. Time, patience, self awareness, and who knows what else will come seem to be the long path out of this to do it right.

Thundarr, about that long post where you "chimed in". Hell yes!

[Dji76]

Why the need to be friends? Let me put it this way... If a guy friend slpet with your wife behind your back would you want to eveuntally be his friend again? I know bro code but seriously, our spouses owed us waaaaaaayyyy more than that. Just like we owed it to them... Lets take it a step further to eliminate the "this is different, its MLC" stuff. What if your guy friend in that scenario were in mlc and slept with your wife??? Does he get a pass then?
I still struggle with the "better or worse, till death" part of my vows and the decision to put some boundaries in place soon with my w that will likely result in me ending my marriage. So part of this is just me venting and trying to process my anger. I'm right at the cusp of where TT is:
"But the need to blow to hell our entire lives is something I can never ignore.  Finances ruined:  Check.  Family torn apart and choosing sides:  Check.  Nasty Divorce:  Check  Being mean as hell when I have been NOTHING but nice our entire r:  Check.

Bottom line:  Check MATE, and I am DONE.  She now has the privilege of joining that very very few select group of people in my life that "crossed that line", which is VERY HARD to accomplish with me"

I couldnt say it better so I'm borrowing... Except we havent started divorce yet.

[MeNow]

Why the need to be friends? Let me put it this way... If a guy friend slpet with your wife behind your back would you want to eveuntally be his friend again? I know bro code but seriously, our spouses owed us waaaaaaayyyy more than that. Just like we owed it to them... Lets take it a step further to eliminate the "this is different, its MLC" stuff. What if your guy friend in that scenario were in mlc and slept with your wife??? Does he get a pass then?
I still struggle with the "better or worse, till death" part of my vows and the decision to put some boundaries in place soon with my w that will likely result in me ending my marriage. So part of this is just me venting and trying to process my anger. I'm right at the cusp of where TT is:
"But the need to blow to hell our entire lives is something I can never ignore.  Finances ruined:  Check.  Family torn apart and choosing sides:  Check.  Nasty Divorce:  Check  Being mean as hell when I have been NOTHING but nice our entire r:  Check.

Bottom line:  Check MATE, and I am DONE.  She now has the privilege of joining that very very few select group of people in my life that "crossed that line", which is VERY HARD to accomplish with me"

I couldnt say it better so I'm borrowing... Except we havent started divorce yet.

I wouldn't call it a need so much as a possibility. We will always be in each others lives to a point because of the kids. I just don't want it eating me up inside anymore. I don't want left over feelings affecting my next relationship or my enjoyment of now.

I understand your feelings about it. I've been there, I'm there now as a matter of fact. I'm looking towards the future and what I want, and that's to be free, mostly from my own shackles in my own mind.

[riverbirch]

You're all special guys. That's for sure. Your wives would be lucky to have you back in their lives. You love them and understand more than most men. You understand that something is wrong other than them just running off or cheating.

I went through a Mlc when I was 36/38. It started before that I believe as depression,then a whole bunch of things happened. I think my brain just got overloaded and said enough!  I had no idea what was wrong with me. I just know I hated every one.

I had a brief affair and the h found out. At first he was all over me wanting to fix things and then the depression and anger hit. He wasn't like any of you. He started being a complete @$$. Drinking heavy,staying at the bar all hours everyday and started hanging with chicks the same age as our daughter. We separated and he slept with one of the bar who res. It did not make things better.

So your wives are very lucky to have men who choose to be the way you are. Running off to someone else doesn't fix anything. It causes way to much more trouble for the future.