[Thundarr]

I agree that there is a "female chorus" in the outside world, the "You go, girl!" cadre of man-haters and divorce hags who cheer each other on for reprehensible things.  But.....I don't see those women here.  My guess is that those women are bitter former LBS who have learned that misery loves company and that they derive pleasure in seeing a man hurt in a way they cannot hurt the man who spurned them.  The women I see here are women much more worthy, who "get it."  I've not heard one woman defend or justify XW's actions and almost always condemn her actions toward the kids and I.  Just my experience here, and no more valid than anyone else's.

[Braveheart]

I agree that there is a "female chorus" in the outside world, the "You go, girl!" cadre of man-haters and divorce hags who cheer each other on for reprehensible things.  But.....I don't see those women here.  My guess is that those women are bitter former LBS who have learned that misery loves company and that they derive pleasure in seeing a man hurt in a way they cannot hurt the man who spurned them.  The women I see here are women much more worthy, who "get it."  I've not heard one woman defend or justify XW's actions and almost always condemn her actions toward the kids and I.  Just my experience here, and no more valid than anyone else's.

All I can say is I can count on one finger the number of single/divorced women I've met or dated since BD that admitted to any responsibility for their part in the end of their marriage.

[osb]

All I can say is I can count on one finger the number of single/divorced women I've met or dated since BD that admitted to any responsibility for their part in the end of their marriage.

I don't wish to sound argumentative (and this is the Man Cave, so I perhaps should gently exit?); but the entire basis of this website is to reinforce that the breakup of our marriages was not the LBS's fault. 'You didn't cause it, and you can't fix it'. "It's her/his crisis".

So why ever would you be surprised to hear single women irl NOT taking personal responsibility for the dissolution of their marriages, when none of the posters here (male or female) acknowledge the equivalent responsibility? I don't think this is a male vs female thing. It's a dealing-with-MLC thing.

...FWIW I don't think MLC/BD/divorce is the fault of the LBS. Though we each may have our own growing to do.

[Picton]

Ok I am gentley going to pop my head out of my shell and say some of us women are embarrassed by the actions of the same sex as I am sure at times you look at some guys and think - man what a d!ck!

I promise not all of us belong to the bra burning bridge.

Anyone, men or women who don't take some of the responsibility for the break down of their relationship aren't been honest with themselves. Even us whos h/w/p leaped onto the crazy train of mlc. Not saying we could have stopped mlc from happening but relationships are always evolving and require a degree of work. I know I stopped working on my relationship with my xp months before BD.

Ok pulling my head in now.

Kia kaha - stay strong

[Jackolar12]

Hi Picton,
Thank you for restoring my faith in the opposite gender, I needed it. I am trying to work out my side of what caused my Mlcer to go nuclear. I can only look at the alienator she's with now, and I will give him a fictitious name Richard Head ha ha. She's going on lots of holidays and short breaks etc, prior to bomb drop it was hard work to get her to go anywhere, she's hanging around the bars with him as he's a bar fly.
They seem on the surface happy, but next door neighbour says she looks miserable all the time and hardly speaks.

I think she in her current condition is co dependant and if it's not the Richard it would be some other form of him. I believe she is getting validation from him/ them whatever and she's hooked on the compliments.
I wish in retrospect she could have let me know what she needed at the time and I would have responded in a positive way, but she said nothing at all and I can't read minds even though I wish I was capable of this. Whether or not she awakens from her trance, she's a cheater and once a cheater always a cheater they say. I still feel guilt for not seeing this coming and protecting our family, it's a daily burden I carry.
Good luck with your situation and may God go with you.
Jack

[Braveheart]

All I can say is I can count on one finger the number of single/divorced women I've met or dated since BD that admitted to any responsibility for their part in the end of their marriage.

I don't wish to sound argumentative (and this is the Man Cave, so I perhaps should gently exit?); but the entire basis of this website is to reinforce that the breakup of our marriages was not the LBS's fault. 'You didn't cause it, and you can't fix it'. "It's her/his crisis".

So why ever would you be surprised to hear single women irl NOT taking personal responsibility for the dissolution of their marriages, when none of the posters here (male or female) acknowledge the equivalent responsibility? I don't think this is a male vs female thing. It's a dealing-with-MLC thing.

...FWIW I don't think MLC/BD/divorce is the fault of the LBS. Though we each may have our own growing to do.

I'm not sure if I agree with that, most of the men I've met post divorce, MLC or "Normal", spent a great deal of time rehashing their marriage and dealing themselves a lot of self blame for their part in the end of their marriage.  It's been my experince and that of most men I've met, that the majority of women we've dated throughout their lives have always painted their X's in a very negative light and in some cases dumped us to go back with that same X.... I myself experienced this three times back during my pre marriage dating years.

[bipolared]

Jack, I don't think you need to feel guilty.  Sure there are things we could have said and done, or not said and done.  But people can end marriages without blowing the family to hell.  That is how our situation seems different to me-all this destruction and cruelty isn't necessary.  Pretty sure you werent the type of person to deserve the crap you have been thrown;  none of us are, or why would we be here? 

[Braveheart]

Hi Picton,
Thank you for restoring my faith in the opposite gender, I needed it. I am trying to work out my side of what caused my Mlcer to go nuclear. I can only look at the alienator she's with now, and I will give him a fictitious name Richard Head ha ha. She's going on lots of holidays and short breaks etc, prior to bomb drop it was hard work to get her to go anywhere, she's hanging around the bars with him as he's a bar fly.
They seem on the surface happy, but next door neighbour says she looks miserable all the time and hardly speaks.

I think she in her current condition is co dependant and if it's not the Richard it would be some other form of him. I believe she is getting validation from him/ them whatever and she's hooked on the compliments.
I wish in retrospect she could have let me know what she needed at the time and I would have responded in a positive way, but she said nothing at all and I can't read minds even though I wish I was capable of this. Whether or not she awakens from her trance, she's a cheater and once a cheater always a cheater they say. I still feel guilt for not seeing this coming and protecting our family, it's a daily burden I carry.
Good luck with your situation and may God go with you.
Jack

Jack, the reason you couldn't see it coming is because they couldn't either. I've spent close to four years researching into this and have read thousands of accounts of women ( in their own words ) who have described their descent into this.

It seems to start as described by feminist Betty Frieden as wives "lay beside her husband at night- she was afraid to ask even of herself the silent question-- 'Is this all?”  .... I've read accounts where a wife has gone from describing their husbands as being "the best of men" to "A touch from him makes my skin crawl" in less than six months...

There are numerous thoughts on what brings this on, childhood abuse, absent fathers, depression, BPD/Narcissism...etc... My theory is it could be any of these things, but triggered by Peri- Menopause, the hormonal shift just tips the balance of anyone with a predispostion.

I know this theory is the PC third rail nobody wants to touch, and I'll probably get a swat for even bringing it up. Why? because it brings up that age old topic of women and hormones at middle age. It's something the more radical feminists have been trying shame men for as "Misogynists" for even mentioning since the 1970's, even though it has been recorded as the "Change of life" since the time of the Ancient Greeks.

[Picton]

Jack

Ok I am going out on a limb here and say one word EGO. In a nut shell, when I break it down I keep coming back to the same thing. My ego has taken a pounding. The alienator in my situation is an affair down and I look at her and think "really - you left me for that. Man I must have been a real b!tch to live with". Lbs's are notorious for been fixers and we can't even fix the person we are closest to. We were seen as the "perfect couple" in the small town we live in - that ended up been BS. These and many more things have left me with a very bruised ego.

I also wish my xp had been capable of telling me now he was feeling prior to BD but unfortunately I am a bit of a "sledge hammer" person - unless you hit me over the head with a sledge hammer then I don't always see what is happening right in front of me.

I loathe it when people say "once a cheaper always a cheater. You could never trust him again". There are high percentage of married people that have affairs and the relationship has survived. My mother has always said there are worse things than an affair. It's all the other mlc behaviour that I struggle with. If reconciliation is an option I will consider at the time - but I no I wouldn't survive this again.

The protection of the family is so ingrained in men that I can why this is difficult for you.

Take care of yourself.

Kia kaha - stay strong

[Thundarr]

I don't think the hormonal question is even up for debate anymore.  We now know that peri and menopause cause major changes in women, but also that men go through andropause as well.  OP has maintained a hormonal connection ever si Ce he, Hobo/TB and I were on the peri site several years ago and I've not seen anyone challenge him on that.

As I'm thinking through all of this I think I've come to a conclusion.  Love doesn't exist except between biologically related organisms, and sometimes not even then.  If love DID exist then there should be MANY more R stories here.  As it stands I don't think there's one single male LBS R story going around except DGU's mysterious friend, who I haven't heard an update on in months.  Btw, security doesn't exist either.  Four years ago I would have said I had the best marriage of anyone I know and that we were secure as could be.  Four years and three months ago I was b!tc#-slapped by life in the worst way possible and shown how foolish I had been all along.