[Rollercoasterider]

I need to brainstorm and having a discussion on my present train of thoughts may be helpful.

As I have spent the last couple of years writing my MLC manuscript I have at times tried to come up with different terms for stages or other descriptions sometimes simply that I was not copying. I did not come up with a different term for Replay that I liked. It has the advantage of so many word forms: Replayer, Replaying...De ja vuer just  doesn't have the right ring to it!

It took me until recently to come up with alienator; I wanted a gender neutral term that was not an acronym.

But Replay behaviour is associated with high-energy behaviours. LBSs with more depressive or low-ebergy MCLers are often confused; they continuously wonder if it is really MLC because their spouse is not showing many of the typical indicators--or he is not showing them to the same degree or for as long.

Replay is Escape and Avoidance.  That is so obvious--and a great name, why hadn't I thought of it earlier?
There are two types or more accurately a continuum of high to low energy. But the higher-energy MLCers are what everyone hears about. But low-energy MLCers are not rare--it could even be a 50/50 split. There is an upcoming series in the Newsletter that reviews types of men at midlife. The series lasts for several issues, but eventually I distill the original types down to 2 which can be described as low energy versus high energy.

Both have Replay behaviours, but it often seems as though the low energy Replayers are milder. Sadly this is not necessarily the case, they are merely different.

Replay is Covert Depression. But what then of the MLCers who exhibit classic or overt depression. Some people have chronic depression issues before and during MLC.  I just am finding it unfair to those whose MLCers seem to be milder as Replayers.

I am thinking that the phase Replay--or Escape & Avoid should have two sub descriptions or types--low or high energy and a review of the differences. Sure, you may see a low-energy MLCer exhibiting Replay Bachelor PArty behaviours, but not as mcuh--if at all--as high-energy Replayers.


Thoughts...?

[HopefulForMyself]

Rollercoasterider,

I like the idea of having 2 subterms for the Replay stage. I would consider my H on the low energy side of this stage. He is really good and spending time with kids and doing family things like that. And on his non weekends, he hangs out with old friends that are married and mostly pretty mellow. In fact, as far as I know he has only gone to the bar/clubs a couple of times in the last 6 months. So I'm guessing that is what you are talking about as far as low energy?

[Courageous wife]

RCR

Can you define the difference between high and low energy mlcer?  My brain does not seem to be comprehending...

[Buggy31]

I think this is important.  I believe that my husband is on the low energy side of replay as well which leads me to question at times whether it's MLC.  I see so many of the symptoms of MLC yet he spends time with his children, does work around the house reports to me (which is more him reporting to himself I believe because I never ask where he's going, who's he with and how long he'll be gone). 

With that being said my husband "lives through his mind and can mistake fantasy for reality".  It has been this way on a certain level for years but it has become particularly pronounced during MLC.  I can hear him glorify the high energy replay behaviors and he has tried some of it out.  Going to bars, getting really drunk, interest in cage fighting and such, sadness over never having a close knit group (gang) of guy friends, chewing tobacco.  When he does do these things for a short time I can tell they are not working for him and so he'll cycle in and out of phases.  He still is clinging to the OW fantasy although I don't specifically know the extent.  I have gut feelings that there may be secret phone calls, meet ups and some stuff going on at work.  Yet I have know proof of anything just my intuition. 

Although his behavior isn't as extreme as others that I have read his passiveness keeps him stuck.  I also believe his passiveness resulted in his attraction to a risky "OW" situation.  I have joked with him, during his more clear moment,
"couldn't you have picked the single, rich woman with vacation home in Italy? Wouldn't that have worked or made more sense?".  Of course, one year later I know there is very little sense in their actions. 

Anyway I think this is an important consideration for replay behavior because I know what it's like to live with the "replaying alien" who doesn't act out publicly or to the extreme that is characteristic.

[Rollercoasterider]

Can you define the difference between high and low energy mlcer?  My brain does not seem to be comprehending...

Rather than MLCer, it is more a general term for a personality attribute--like Myers-Briggs typing.
Depression and Anger are flips of one another. Depression is Anger turned inward and Anger is Depression turned outward. Something that is a Depressant decreases activity, whereas a stimulant increases activity. Low-energy refers to someone whose natural reactive pattern is depressive and high-energy refers to someone whose natural reactive pattern is higher-energy.

Typical Replay is covert depression, this is also called masked depression because it is active and energetic and we think of being depressed as low energy.

I've noticed the high and low-energy differences and pointed them outt o LBSs for some time now. But it was only since February that I began thinking about it more in depth when I began my series on types of men at midlife. It's a long and complex series and it took me quite some time to figure out how to esplain it understandably. Hopefully I have done it. The introduction article is in next week's newsletter.

But it was reading here that made me think that I should take my ideas back to the stages and redefine--or rather re-explain it there.

It is also not either/or. Think of a spectrum say of white to balck where you cannot tell the difference between two pixels next to each other, but each pixel on the horizontal axis is slightly darker or lighter than the adjacent pixels. Someone may be extremely low-energy and another may be in the middle where he is neither one nor the other completely, but balanced and another may be just a bit more high than low.

[Writingmom]

THANK YOU for clarifying replay!  I feel like we're going to be stuck in "replay" for eternity!  But escape and avoidance makes SO much more sense.  It doesn't sound so...never-ending.  Repetetive. 

I don't necessarily understand covert depression or mild energy.  Mine is definitely a HIGH, HIGH energy!  Always has been.  He has to stay busy and distracted all the time.  Now he has a pregnancy, can drink lots, ignores job responsibilities, is back and forth between two states as he divides his time with OW/my kids...  He is definitely not mild in that he has the resources to be ABLE to escape and avoid.  Before this weekend, his two worlds haven't really collided.  We'll see.  Either way, I absolutely feel better hearing about escape and avoidance.  Thanks!!

[OldPilot]

RCR

I think you gave a good explanation of the two different types of replay. However IMHO you should just stick with the one term "Replay". I understand that it is confusing for newbies, but all of MLC is confusing not just these terms. MOre terms I believe also make it MORE confusing.

[Trustandlove]

I'm kinda with OP here, although it did occur to me that there could be several stages of replay.  I.e. when one thing doesn't 'fix' the problem, turn to something else. 

Replay is a good term because it really does get across the idea that they are trying to re-live parts of their lives that they felt they didn't get to.  Escape and avoidance is true, but, at least certainly in the case of my H, they are actively DOING lots of things.  My H said that he wasn't running from something, he was running towards something (this was right at bomb drop).  So to us they are escaping and avoiding, to them they are doing everything that they felt they had denied themselves. 

[MarkedandHealed]

I'm one who's H is low energy. He doesn't seem to show the symptoms of MLC at all for weeks on end. It's not until I prod him, and sometimes I feel like prodding (poking the tiger) just to see the anger well up again, because it makes me feel better. I feel better when I know that he is angry and he is depressed, not because I want him to feel those things, but because it gives me a guidepost.

Some days he's so mellow and just seems like he's moving on with his life that I wonder if I imagined it all.

And his anger and spewing and blaming were all so short lived, it's like they never even happened.

For me, it was helpful to get a private message from you, RCR, telling me that he's still showing MLC behaviors b/c I was really thinking I was losing my mind for a while there.

In any case... have you thought of having a non-scientific poll on the subject?

You could ask people a series of questions, limit to short answers, and compile results. That should give you a pretty good guesstimate of the split, as well as maybe uncover a pattern or perhaps even a new cluster of behaviors you hadn't encountered.

[OldPilot]

Although this has nothing to do with this thread other than it is written by the author of this thread and our board. I have been doing some rummaging around on another board and found this post from 4/23/05

Hopefully the author will not be mad at me for reproducing it here on her forum but I thought that it might be educational for some of the newer people to see how far she has come and how long a process this really is.

I've just read through this entire thread. I wanted to offer my encouragement. Hang in there. I know it's tough. My situation only began 5 weeks ago, so I've had it so much easier than most others on this board--fortunately I found the books and website right away.

I think it's okay to discuss the relationship when he brings it up--but let him direct the discussion and when he wants to stop talking, stop. My husband is doing a lot of relationship talk.

Others: Please tell me if I'm wrong in this--whether it's okay to discuss the relationship when he initiates.

Stay strong. You're very fortunate to still be in the same house and that he still cuddles and gives goodbye kisses.
The other woman is the biggest fear right now. I couldn't stop thinking about my husband's crush--was driving me crazy. It seems as though he'd bounce back without the other woman doesn't it? I don't have advice for getting through other than STAY STRONG. And that can be one of the most diffuclt things to do.

Okay, so you may not really be strong, but you need to appear strong to him. DONT instigate relationship talk, NO crying, NO I love yous. And this one is hard, but the feelings about him where he's got it backwards because he won't do anything with you because he is with her--try to understand it and maybe look at the positive side.
My husband said the same thing--once he started something with the crush [fortunately she turned him down since he's married] he would have to stop intimacy with me. It's about monogamy. Many of the guys having affairs aren't trying to be faithful to any of the woman. At least ours respect monogamy. I understand, it may be hard to look at it that way, but it has helped me a lot.

Here's what has made it easier for me. Think of MLC as a disease. We don't blame schizophrenics for their behaviour, maybe we can also remove blame and begin understanding for the MLC phase.

My Dad winces when I tell him that my husband said he is interested in dating others, doesn't love me, is still moving out even though the realtionship is improving. I asked him to understand it as a disease and thus my husband is not in control of his actions, and look at the positive side of things. In my case, my husband needs some space, and I can do some interior decorating that would be impossible with him here. [But the moving still distresses me.]

I've also attempted to educate my circle of support. Ask them to think of it as a disease and help me stay strong. MY Dad, though he winces, is better than anyone at this. He knows that on bad days I need him to listen and just tell me to stick it out.

It seems to me that if you stay strong and hang in there, you're going to bust this thing. He clearly still loves you--the cuddling and goodbye kisses, and apologies after insensitivities show this.

Good Luck,
K-R