[stayed]

Actually, I don't think it's the ring or the "T" on your forehead, I think it's attitude!  I think when our head is simply not in the game, then we actually send out a "keep away" aura!  A happily married person is fun, cheerful, inviting.... heck, a HAPPY person is fun, cheerful, inviting.  The truth is, Hawk, you are sending out, " I am a very UNHAPPY, MISERABLE MAN, at the moment, don't know when I will be my normal, happy, easy, go lucky self again.  I will keep you posted, in fact, you will probably be able to see it a mile away".

Honestly, we control our own destiny far more then we realize.  When we are happy, content within ourselves, it shows.  People gravitate towards people like that.  So if people used to gravitate to you before when you were married, the it was probably because they just thought you would be a HOOT to hang out with.  They probably were right too.  You were.

Hawk, LET YOUR WIFE GO... take back your life.  I would say there is a far greater chance of your wife finding you again, if you were to work hard on yourself and become the self assured, happy man she married,if you were to somehow find your way back to the person you once were, I expect she would be far more receptive to you.  In fact, she might have to wait in line for you to notice her standing there.   

You can never be that MAN again, the one you were while married but you can become that man plus a much better, much improved man.  A man that has learned some hard lessons and knows that life is all about making the most of it, enjoying every day. Appreciating what you have and showing it.  Working hard to provide a good living for yourself and your family... just plain CONTROLLING your life, rather then letting circumstances just take you to wherever it seems to lead. 

Come on Hawk.  Where is the old Hawk?  Where is the new Hawk?  How about combining them and becoming the best person you can be.  Instead of moping around in victim mode. 

I know people hate that Victim Triangle thing.  I hear the groans now... "oh $hit, here she goes again!" but seriously, most of us are just nothing but a poor, poor us.  Our spouses have run off with somebody else.  It's NOT our fault, so we'll just sit here and wait and whenever our MLCer see's us, they will see how strong and wonderful we have become or always were for that matter.  In time they will run back to us, because it IS SO OBVIOUS that we are the best person for them. 

I really wish I could say that was true, but I do believe one thing for sure.  If we truly do the mirror work.  If we truly work on ourselves and find the person we always wanted to be.  The person we are proudest of.  The best parent, friend, relative, child whatever we can be, then GOOD THINGS are going to happen.  Whether your MLCer returns or not. 

You are the controller of your own fate!  Start believing it, start believing in YOURSELF. 

Hugs Stayed 

[Medusa]

To build on what Stayed said, we attract where we are in our lives. When we are broken, we attract broken. Our MLCers are the poster children of this.

I agree with Stayed that once we do the mirror work and look deeply and ourselves, understand why we are the way we are, and change those things we don't like, heal from past hurts, etc., then we will attract what we want.

Yes, we just take the time to heal from the devastation of our marriages imploding. But I think the more we GAL and do the mirror work (I believe they must be done in conjunction) the more confidence we will gain, the happier we will feel about and within ourselves and, thus, we will attract that which we want.

It truly is about attitude. Positivity breeds positivity.

[UnconditionalLove]

I also agree it's about attitude!!!!!
I can't tell you how many times people have come up to me and mentioned how well I'm doing. Yes, I have my days and whoa is me but for the most part me coming to The Hero's Spouse paved the way for me to not become that bitter person and take my faith and us it.  Allow God to be God and move forward standing but growing.  I am now divorced, I prayed and prayed that wouldn't happen and I'm the one who pushed that button to protect myself and that is the only reason and maybe slow it down hoping he would change in the process but I'm still divorced.  What I can do with that will hold me back, keep me bitter or move me to a new life of joy despite what I am going through.  I from day one of being here wanted to do this right.  Of course I didn't do it all right but I learned early on that there was really nothing I could do so I didn't argue, I responded to EX H like a child and set my boundaries and kept out of the daily crazy emails he would send me.  I paved my path to look at this as his journey that touched my life but I have no way of making better for him or me unless I just move forward and respect the man that he was throughout the last 30 years.  I refused to throw back what he threw to me and work at coming out of this healthy.  I'm still working on it but for the most part I can't say my life is bad.  I loved him, I'd like him to get help or to get through this I miss who he was but my life although different is less chaotic and happy.  Everyday God reminds me of the goodness from yesterday so I can see him in my life and continue my walk to joy.  I totally believe it's about the attitude.  You hang on to the past and not heal you will stay just where you are.

[Thunder]

Medusa-To build on what Stayed said, we attract where we are in our lives. When we are broken, we attract broken. Our MLCers are the poster children of this.

But most married men are not broken.  I'm talking about women being attracted to happily married men.
From everything I've read some women are attracted to married men for various reasons and none of them have to do with their attitude.

They see these men as safe, their not on the prowl.  Probably haven't been with tons of women.  They feel safe flirting with a married man, single men would take it much more serious.

Their taken.  If some other woman found him worth it, he must be worth it.  He's already a family man, he's proven that.

Forbidden fruit.  We want what someone else has.  It's a challenge.

These men are not afraid of commitment.  Scores big with a lot of women.

There was more but these were the main reason I read.
Funny, it was just the opposite for men.  They were less likely to be attracted to married women.
I think it goes back to men being more loyal to other men.  Sadly, women aren't as loyal to each other when it comes to relationships.
   

[Onward]

And how is it that this discussion thread has now become an opportunity to lambaste an LBS?

What defines an unhappy person? Mentioning that they miss their spouse?  Seriously?? On a forum that's ostensibly about people who want to restore their relationships?

Hawk has a great sardonic sense of humour. He's droll. He's living his life. He pops in and lightens all kinds of threads. And doesn't warrant attack for it.

Sorry, Stayed, but for someone who was so hot and bothered about LBSs not critiquing LBSs, you're the one who's dived in to criticize someone.

So yes, there you go again.
We all have mirror work to do.

[Thunder]

I'm sorry.  I was just replying to what hawk said.
I found it amusing because my H, in the beginning, said the same thing.  It was kind of meant as funny, though true.
 

Hope no women were offended.     I truly did not expect a serious conversation to develop.
Ok, enough about married men and rings.   

 

[anchor]

guys and dolls, nice to see the veterans discussing veteran things. 

Hope you don't mind me as a newbie following. It's inspiring to read stories from people who have come so far, and have taken all these different directions. You all sound very wise and you set an example to me to become the woman that I know I still am and also want to be.

Thanks people

Anchor

[LisaLives]

There is clearly a schism on the forum.  I only follow a few threads and check in when an occasional veteran posts, but even I can see it.  I was going to refrain from commenting, but it does seem to be time to address the changes in a coherent way.  In 2010, it was all about standing, being an obstacle to divorce and remaining "married" and true to your spouse, at all costs--even costs to yourself and your children.  People left when they stopped standing.  And there is no way I would agree there were more R’s in the early days.  I have seen very few healthy R’s here, on my other forum, or IRL.  (And didn’t someone tell me HB ultimately left her H?) 

As the site matured, more and more standers stepped down, and businesses need to grow or die.  RCR allowed it to accommodate non-standers.  Now may be a time to consider a small compartmentalization, as a growth strategy.  As one of the original pot stirrers, I always thought there should be a place (or some color indicator) for true standers who want to hear nothing about anything else, and other codes to let people know they are open to discussing divorce, or other ideas. 

Fact--true standers and non-standers have very different views of the world and MLC.  There are very few people who truly are standing in a perfectly healthy manner.  For everyone else, standing calls for a whole heap of denial, or cognitive dissonance at the least.  True standing means you have to blameshift all the horrible things your spouse has done onto the dis-ease of MLC, watch them treat the OP like gold, throw their kids under the bus, and all the other BS and keep shining that light.  Taking back a half-baked MLCer who is not ready to accept blame for all the hurt and devastation they have caused is pretty much a requirement for R—that takes a certain kind of person, and SOME of those people ARE weak.  They stand because they are too lazy, afraid, negative, insecure, or a whole host of other things, to look for anything else.  I am NOT saying ALL, but they exist and some are here.   

Once you stand down, you see everything in a new way.  When the anger takes over and you face the true pain of betrayal and begin to heal--you can never go back.  It's like losing your virginity.  Once you have sex and realize you did not give up your entire being and self respect, get pregnant or die of an STD, you can’t go back to preach about the big evil that is lust.  When you no longer have to look at your spouse as the golden ring, you can see that your MLCer was weak and did heinous things to you and your kids, friends, etc.  And you can see that maybe you were not all that healthy and let it happen, and as you start to get healthy and see the same signs in the deniers all around you, you feel like it might be helpful to point it out.  And let me just say that there are also weak, lazy, angry people with low self-esteem and other issues here, too, and for a time, I was probably all of those (except lazy, I have never been lazy), neither side wins in that regard. 

But standers fear moving on more than non-standers fear standing.  And non-standers forget that they are talking to people who do not want to face that they or their spouse might be coD, narcs, subclinical PD, depressed, etc.  What others perceive as “bitter” is really just war-weary wisdom.  Seeing another shattered woman refusing to stand up for herself is hard.  Teaching is a gift and most people do not have it, and too many people with 2X4s instead of kid gloves are truly trying to be helpful, but this is hard for the newbies to take and threatening to the insecure standers who are afraid they will lose a new member of their team. 

The bottom line is NO ONE knows what makes an R and there are a LOT of marriages on here where R is truly NOT the best option.  I am one of them.  I despise divorce and would never have chosen this path.  I would have been a martyr for my H.  The fact that he was weak and chose to have an affair as a way out of what was truly a crappy M was, ultimately, a favor to me.  NC, lowC, paving the way, no one KNOWS what is best for anyone, but veterans do know that sandpaper on raw burns is generally not the best path. 

To stand, or not to stand is an individual choice and each of us have to choose our own crooked, horrible path through the mess.  None of us know what that path looks like for anyone else or what equipment they are taking on that journey.  To repeatedly criticize or encourage a woman to stand for a man in a situation we REALLY DO NOT KNOW may be just as irresponsible as telling her to run as fast as she can.  Mean people suck and should be silenced, but people who offer alternative views are all offering the same thing—care in a public forum.  People have to know that any responder could be a PhD psychologist or a crack who thinks God talks to them (sorry but I never bought that stuff from HB.).  I could be a card-carrying delusional BPD who believes she channels Elvira, and all my posts could be lies—there is really no way to know, but some people have told me I have helped them.  So be it, broken clocks are right twice a day.  And every M that is presented on here should be suspect.  Perfect Ms do NOT succumb to MLCs, true statement--something had to be amiss, and not everyone tells you their whole truth--because NONE of us KNOW our WHOLE TRUTH.   

Bottom line, it’s RCR’s forum, take it, or leave it, literally.  If you want your own forum where they rules are different, start one, but dwelling on something you cannot control, whether it is this forum's rules or someone else's stand is indicative of "issues!"  So everyone should stop cat-fighting and be nice.  Love and light, ll

[xyzcf]

Lisa,

I respectfully disagree with just about everything you have said.

No need to even attempt to point out how condescending you are towards standers...suffice it to say, I have no idea why you continue to be on this site if the philosophy is not one that you subscribe to.

[hawk]

See this is the good typical example of internet bs where something you say gets misinterpreted into oblivion and blown to smithereens. It's one reason l don't bother with the internet too much.

People comment all the time in RL on what an incredible job ex and l are doing and ate often amazed but eh , l don't need them to comment or tell me that , or to hear it, l already know that.

Stuff l was saying there is nothing to do with me or what l put out, l come here to talk bs that's what this place is for but out in the RW , there's no need , not for me anyway , zero.
What l was talking about doesn't come from me , it's just one of those ironic twists in life that l end up in this position yet in an area like this , it's as simple as that.
Doesn't matter what you put out round here there's just nothing going on now it's as simple as that.
Where as before , we had friends staying from interstate , we had friends in that area all around, we had life going on all over there was sh@t on offer everywhere and ,lots of partying , lots of getting into trouble haha but they've all moved , we've all moved and ironically , no one's around anf obviously with our split , everything's different.
Very very simple maths, Murphy's law stuff. Nuff said .