[UnconditionalLove]

I just want to say just in case I'm being blamed for something in all this shooting but... I am a stander even divorced I am standing. I'm just saying that I'm moving on with my life as I'm standing as I believe is told to do.  I'm giving my now EX H his room to hopefully grow.  I am in no way moving on as in moving to dating, being in a relationship, thinking about being in a relationship, etc.  My whole being is still attached to EX H even if I am divorced.  Plus, I am still connected because we have a business together that is now just his but I still work in it so for EX H his true passage through MLC isn't probably going to finish till after I am done doing my job for him after the first of this year.  But, whether someone is standing or not isn't really my concern or for me to place judgement on.  I just wanted you all to know I wasn't posting for or against just sharing my story of joy and agreeing that it is an attitude.  The mind plays an important part in all this in for LBS's as I am.

[Thunder]

Lisa-Now may be a time to consider a small compartmentalization, as a growth strategy.  As one of the original pot stirrers, I always thought there should be a place (or some color indicator) for true standers who want to hear nothing about anything else, and other codes to let people know they are open to discussing divorce, or other ideas.

But then where does that leave people like me?  I am neither a stander or a non-stander.
I am basically still here to help who ever needs help or advice.  Plus I made some pretty good friends.

My H and I are divorced.  I'm not standing because I don't want to remarry him.  But I still have love for him so we are pretty much creating what I see as a new relationship.  Hoping anyway.

Where do I fall, in what category, what color would I fit in?

It breaks my heart to see newbies come on this site in total confusion.  I was one of them and the kindness of everyone here helped me through it.  It feels good to give back.

I will talk to anyone about standing (I was), or divorce (went through it), finances, (also been through it) or anything else they need to talk about.  I am never negative and try to show respect for everyone.  If I really disagree with them, I bow out and let others help them.
I think it would be a disservice not to point out the fact that they may need to get financial support, even if their standing.  This whole thing is complicated.  It not just black and white.

I may be wiser from all this but I really don't think like a stander or a non-stander.  I guess I'm a little of both.

I hope I'm reading you right.
I do agree with your last sentence.   

[Onward]

I think I should probably come in and answer the rephrased questions I’d posed in this discussion as well, since part of the reason for rephrasing them as I did was so they weren’t so binary.  There is a lot of room on the continuum between standing/not standing. And I confess to really hating the kinds of ‘yes’ / ‘no’ close-ended questions that promote polarity on the board.

But to write a decent answer is going to take some time.

In the meantime, my earlier comment was directed at this:

The truth is, Hawk, you are sending out, " I am a very UNHAPPY, MISERABLE MAN, at the moment, don't know when I will be my normal, happy, easy, go lucky self again.  I will keep you posted, in fact, you will probably be able to see it a mile away".

Honestly, we control our own destiny far more then we realize.  When we are happy, content within ourselves, it shows.  People gravitate towards people like that.  So if people used to gravitate to you before when you were married, the it was probably because they just thought you would be a HOOT to hang out with.  They probably were right too.  You were.

Hawk, LET YOUR WIFE GO... take back your life.  I would say there is a far greater chance of your wife finding you again, if you were to work hard on yourself and become the self assured, happy man she married,if you were to somehow find your way back to the person you once were, I expect she would be far more receptive to you.  In fact, she might have to wait in line for you to notice her standing there.   

You can never be that MAN again, the one you were while married but you can become that man plus a much better, much improved man.  A man that has learned some hard lessons and knows that life is all about making the most of it, enjoying every day. Appreciating what you have and showing it.  Working hard to provide a good living for yourself and your family... just plain CONTROLLING your life, rather then letting circumstances just take you to wherever it seems to lead. 

Come on Hawk.  Where is the old Hawk?  Where is the new Hawk?  How about combining them and becoming the best person you can be.  Instead of moping around in victim mode.

I don't see Hawk as a victim. Or unhappy. Or any of the other labels that get attached to LBSs who sometimes express that they miss their spouses or life with their spouses.

UL, Thunder, Medusa, Stayed, I agree completely about the attractive force of a positive attitude.

And UL, please don't feel any kind of blame.

[Ready2Transform]

We spend a lot of time analyzing what this internet forum is or is not. It's, as I see it, the collective sum of all of us at any given time. Of course it changes as more people come in and others leave. I hope we all don't have to color code ourselves, as I think the diversity and freedom to grow is part of what makes it unique.

I don't define myself either way any more either as I am divorced, but leave the future open to what may come with or without my spouse. I do still feel a connection to caring about him more than I do any other Average Joe.

I found the conversation on Thundarr's thread about denial interesting, and there were some points of agreement with you for me, Lisa. But I'm not really resonating with this message here. Not invalidating this as how you feel, but I just think for those of us who are or were committed to standing in a more awakened and serious way, there is more behind it than the perception that it's denial based. 

[Anjae]

I don't think we need more colour codes. Or to be labelling people with colours and/or icons.

People, and situations, are fluid. It is also much more interesting to allow people to just be, without the need to label/colour everything.

And from a visual point of view, at least for me, it would become too confusing. And it would up the tech side, because one would have to be verifying if the labels/colour codes matched the person and its situation.

Things are fine the way they are. As far as I'm concerned, the simpler, the better.

[Thunder]

I agree Anj,

If it's not broken, don't fix it.   

[Tsunami]

Not posting to argue or debate......Hearts Blessing did NOT leave her husband!  They are happily restored and thriving after ten years of crisis.

She openly shares their journey in her site.

She also returned to Divorce Busters to update they are fully restored.  This information can be found in the reconciliation thread.

[Onward]

If you're reading this, you might want to get a coffee first. Didn't do so well on "short"...

In regards to the discussion, I think HS is an inclusive forum, and is the richer for it. At least, I find the diversity of views and experience enriching.

And I do think that where one self-identifies on the continuum of standing and not-standing or uncertain or shifting or anywhere in between does frame participation in the board.

This says it well:

Fact--true standers and non-standers have very different views of the world and MLC. 

So what are some of the ways that the views are different? Well, all standers are not all alike, those who have dropped their stand are not all alike, and those inbetween are not alike. So how to frame some of the differences as differing but valuable world views – that we can all appreciate, learn from, and respect -- rather than labels?

In my experience as a stander, (and this is me, not all standers, but I suspect there is some shared experience) I have worked hard to get to the point where I plan my life as if H is never coming back, but I live my life like he is. 

Before anyone tells me to let him go, and how I need to live like he isn’t coming back, let me explain what I mean. 

Some facts, for those who do not know.  BD was almost 2 years ago; H left soon after. We do not have a legal separation agreement, still have some joint back accounts, have sold our house, own another property together, and shared assets like vehicles. We went through mediation, but never finalized an agreement. There is no legal action at this time. There is some contact every few weeks, none of it emotionally connecting, and for the most part I now leave contact to him except for what is necessary on administrative things. None of this is what I wanted, so I am in the position of responding as best I can to take care of me as a result of a unilateral choice he has made. I believe there are multiple EAs,; no PA that I know of.

Planning my life like he isn’t coming back means I have zero expectation my life will involve H.  I have shifted things like insurance so there is less life insurance, and more disability or critical illness (we don’t have children, so the insurance I have needs to take care of me). I have had to reconfigure my retirement expectations. I plan vacations, hobbies, family gatherings, time with friends work, retirement, everything from the standpoint of what do I need to do. So, basically, from the question of ‘what does my life going forward look like now?’.

I leave the shared stuff alone, including the joint account with the proceeds from the house sale because I choose not to trigger legal action. It’s not because I’m in denial. It’s because he’s been good with the money, I’ve been good with the money and leaving it alone as it signals a huge amount of trust on both our parts.  Risky? Sure. Trusting? Sure.  And right now the markets are doing poorly, so at least we’re not losing anything.

From the ‘living like he is coming back’ standpoint, it’s simple.
I don’t date.
I don’t look for other men. A, because I’m not ready, B, because I’m married.

I won’t initiate a legal process. A. because right now, I don’t want to B. I don’t have to.
And that’s it. For me, it’s that simple

Am I afraid?
Heck no, I’m not afraid and quite frankly, I resent the implication.

And I really disagree with this world view:

But standers fear moving on more than non-standers fear standing.  And non-standers forget that they are talking to people who do not want to face that they or their spouse might be coD, narcs, subclinical PD, depressed, etc. 

How can anyone even know who fears what more?
Have I been angry? Darn right. I got over that pretty quickly.
Does my H have issues? Sure
Do I have mirror work to do? Sure

You can talk divorce to me all you want to. I’m not afraid of it. I know the legal aspects in my jurisdiction very, very well. Frankly, divorce would make my life a lot easier.

But, as I’ve said before, that’s not why I come here. I come here because I don't want a divorce.
I came here because it’s a place where people “get it”, where despite all of the painful things an MLC spouse does, there is some understanding that an LBS can still love and forgive them. I come here because it’s ostensibly a place where I won’t be shamed or labeled as these things:

For everyone else, standing calls for a whole heap of denial, or cognitive dissonance at the least.  True standing means you have to blameshift all the horrible things your spouse has done onto the dis-ease of MLC, watch them treat the OP like gold, throw their kids under the bus, and all the other BS and keep shining that light.  Taking back a half-baked MLCer who is not ready to accept blame for all the hurt and devastation they have caused is pretty much a requirement for R—that takes a certain kind of person, and SOME of those people ARE weak.  They stand because they are too lazy, afraid, negative, insecure, or a whole host of other things, to look for anything else.  I am NOT saying ALL, but they exist and some are here.

I think I’m pretty healthy. I've dug down and done the work. For two years, I’ve been quietly going about doing what I need to be doing without demonizing my H, and without harming myself. Right now, I’m working hard at recalling happy memories. Because as hard as it’s been so far, I have reason to believe it’s going to get harder. And that’s OK. Because I am not afraid.

Now, as for my perceptions of non-standers. (And this is only my perception, and it’s a perception because its not my experience.).

I think non-standers go through a door that those standing haven't, won't, or don't. And that changes one's thinking. How could it not? It shifts the shared field of experience to a different place. Not better, not worse, not bitter, just different.

It's visible when people say things like "if I had it to do over again, I would do this". Except the "this" is based on what is known now. It's impossible, really, to know. Memory is one thing, a crystal ball is another. So non-standers look at MLC from what 'has' happened, standers are still looking at what 'could' happen.

Yes, I do think when people drop their stand, they

Once you stand down, you see everything in a new way.  When the anger takes over and you face the true pain of betrayal and begin to heal--you can never go back.

But I vehemently disagree that only the non-standers feel anger and begin to heal.  That’s a shared experience. 

So my perception is that non-standers close a door, and confirm that the choice to close it is correct.

Just as standers leave a door open, and choose to confirm that it is correct.

And it is in that need to confirm the “side” of the outcome that I sometimes think the collective “we” run into trouble.

Finally, there are those elsewhere and everywhere in between on the continuum who don’t feel the need to be labeled one way or the other and for them I am truly grateful because they help me believe that no matter what happens, it is going to be OK.

And I sure don’t think colour-coding or more labels is the answer to anything.

If the board is in need of anything, it is in what we share, not how we differ.

No matter what the experience, or where we are in our journeys, there is pain in every keyboard.

[Pixiegirl]

Imo,
I also think we spend too much time analyzing the site, analyzing each other , analyzing our spouses and analyzing our indivdual journeys.

I believe there is guidance in the articles and experience from those that have lived it .

But I think we need to get busy living . Just "BE" and heal. Healing is the very most important part of this journey . There is no handbook for grieving and healing.

Unless we are hurting someone or causing pain or destruction I do not think we should be called out on our behavior.

From  experience , I can tell you kindness and gentleness are very important . Harsh words and judgement will cause a person to shut down and turn away.

[hawk]

l wouldn't say l'm a stander anymore either and l believe any standing for my ex from here would be a total waste of life for me bcl'll bet you anything you like she ain't gonna come knocking , even with the weird things she does do , they don't mean much to me.

l could say yeah , anything can happen and the door might be slightly open but l've been looking out for me a long long time now and should the right person come along , l'm good to go, l know that but l'm not too worried either way either before anyone goes jumping all over that one.

BUT eh, that doesn't mean all is 100% clear on ex, of course it's not.  20 yrs, we had a huge huge life not many here could imagine and we have our daughter to look after .
l'm proud of everything l've done in this , of where l'm at, of how l've handled ex and most of all my d .
But yeah , there's still stuff , so what , of course there is. ANYONE , saying there isn't still stuff only 3yrs out of a 20yr thing , is either bs'ing you or they never even ;loved them in the first place after all.

ps , thunder can l ask why you wouldn't remarry him ?