[OldPilot]

There's no one-size-fits-all, and no one neurological event that triggers MLC.

There are also different types of depression.

Overt(Obvious) and Covert(Hidden), along with different childhood issues, occurring at different ages.
All these things contribute to make different things happen in MLC.

My .02

[Mermaid]

There's no one-size-fits-all, and no one neurological event that triggers MLC.

There are also different types of depression.

Overt(Obvious) and Covert(Hidden), along with different childhood issues, occurring at different ages.
All these things contribute to make different things happen in MLC.

My .02

Absolutely, OP. Wholly agree. I think it's so important not to be reductionist with MLC.

BTW Has the thread "Biochemistry, neurotransmitters and brain " been wholly moved to this general (no topic) discussion?

 I'm confused as to why the neurology of identity should be moved out of a discussion on the brain?

[OldPilot]

BTW Has the thread "Biochemistry, neurotransmitters and brain " been wholly moved to this general (no topic) discussion?

 I'm confused as to why the neurology of identity should be moved out of a discussion on the brain?

I think Anjae moved some of the discussion here that did not pertain to the topic and was more MLC related.(discussion related)

[Mermaid]

BTW Has the thread "Biochemistry, neurotransmitters and brain " been wholly moved to this general (no topic) discussion?

 I'm confused as to why the neurology of identity should be moved out of a discussion on the brain?

I think Anjae moved some of the discussion here that did not pertain to the topic and was more MLC related.(discussion related)

Some of it should have been moved, because it was more general. That particular post was not even about MLC, though mentions it. It may have been a challenge to some concepts people have???

IMHO, it's more useful to have labelled discussion threads, like we used to, such as "what is MLC" etc. This discussion thread meanders through a variety of subjects, so it's hard to know what it's really about.

[OldPilot]

BTW Has the thread "Biochemistry, neurotransmitters and brain " been wholly moved to this general (no topic) discussion?

 I'm confused as to why the neurology of identity should be moved out of a discussion on the brain?

I think Anjae moved some of the discussion here that did not pertain to the topic and was more MLC related.(discussion related)

Some of it should have been moved, because it was more general. That particular post was not even about MLC, though mentions it. It may have been a challenge to some concepts people have???

IMHO, it's more useful to have labelled discussion threads, like we used to, such as "what is MLC" etc. This discussion thread meanders through a variety of subjects, so it's hard to know what it's really about.

Yes it appears to be re-purposed as a catch all discussion thread.
Anjae and I like to keep the amount of threads on the community board as manageble as possible and not have tons of little fragmented threads.

What would you like to name it? - I can change the name.

[Mermaid]

Yes it appears to be re-purposed as a catch all discussion thread.
Anjae and I like to keep the amount of threads on the community board as manageble as possible and not have tons of little fragmented threads.

I understand that... it can be hard to find anything with so many posters nowadays. Not like the old days... 

What would you like to name it? - I can change the name.

  Thank you for the offer, OP... but I can't think of any name which would cover discussions which range from how we should handle ourselves on this forum, to handling our MLCer, to bits about what MLC is, to neurology. May be someone else will? I'm not so creative... 

[Anjae]

There are also different types of depression.

Indeed. Here are a few: Major Depression, Persistent Depressive Disorder, Bipolar Disorder [it is a type of depression with two poles, a manic and a depressive one], Seasonal Affective Disorder, Psychotic Depression, Postpartum Depression, Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, 'Situational' Depression, Atypical Depression. http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/depression-types

Bipolar itself has several types: Bipolar I, Bipolar II, Cyclothymic disorder, and the "subcategories", Mixed features and Rapid-cycling.

To our best knowledge no, there isn't, a single neurological even that triggers MLC. But there is a common denominator, Stress. Stress triggers all sorts of neurological/physiologic events. Depression is also present. Depression also triggers several neurological processes.

There is usually hardly a single neurological, or other, even that contributes to any given situation. Many processes happen. A stroke is felt in the brain, but it comes from the heart. And it triggers, affects, a series of different things in the brain, not just one. 

I think Anjae moved some of the discussion here that did not pertain to the topic and was more MLC related.(discussion related)

I did. The post was also about MLC, it come in sequence as the previous ones. We already have too many discussion threads, that I keep merging into each other. Each day news one pop-up, then, in the same day, or a few days latter, I will have to merge them all. They make it very hard to do tech work, and take up too many resources.

You may like it better the way it were, but for practical tech reasons, like OP said, we try to have as few small fragmented threads as possible. The board has become too big, and there is only a couple of us to manage the tech side. And we keep the board as comfortable as possible for us to manage it.

So, if you don't mind Mermaid, the posts will remain here and this discussion will continue here. I do not want to have to be splitting and merging more than I already do.

The concept that MLC is an emotional and/or social crisis is not new. It is the normal, old/traditional view of MLC. There is nothing challenging in it. It is what has been said about MLC for decades.

You will most likely not find the name MLC in most of the neuroscience books that deal with the hard technical side of stress, depression, etc. But you will also not found the term MLC before 1965, when it was invented by Elliot Jacques. However, MLC existed before 1965. What you will find is a description of the processes of stress, depression, etc in the brain, how they affect the body and behaviour.

I wonder why you seem so determined to dismiss the existence of MLC. Saying that there are several types of life crisis does not deny the existence of a crisis that hits at midlife, has a set of patterns and unfolds a certain way. Is MLC existence a problem to you? If so, why? And if it is, why are you posting in a board and site dedicated to MLC? It truly intrigues me.

[Mermaid]

To our best knowledge no, there isn't, a single neurological even that triggers MLC. But there is a common denominator, Stress. Stress triggers all sorts of neurological/physiologic events. Depression is also present. Depression also triggers several neurological processes.

Yes, I agree that stress triggers many neurological and psychological events. But can you be sure that stress is the one key issue? If so, what's the source of this certainty?

When you say "to our best knowledge", who is the plural person?

There is usually hardly a single neurological, or other, even that contributes to any given situation. Many processes happen. A stroke is felt in the brain, but it comes from the heart. 

From the heart? Is this something new? Where is the science for this?

I think Anjae moved some of the discussion here that did not pertain to the topic and was more MLC related.(discussion related)

 They make it very hard to do tech work, and take up too many resources.
 The board has become too big, and there is only a couple of us to manage the tech side. And we keep the board as comfortable as possible for us to manage it.

I understand, and respect that.

I wonder why you seem so determined to dismiss the existence of MLC. Saying that there are several types of life crisis does not deny the existence of a crisis that hits at midlife, has a set of patterns and unfolds a certain way. Is MLC existence a problem to you? If so, why? And if it is, why are you posting in a board and site dedicated to MLC? It truly intrigues me.

Anjae, I understand your question. It's not my intention to upset, but to be provocative. It's what I do as an academic.

My intention is not to dismiss (actually I don't, at all), but to question. What I especially question is simple approaches, and the idea that there is one MLC, one cause, one pattern, one process. In any other area of human behaviour, learning, stages (Piaget's childhood development, which broadly correspond to neurological changes; Kubler Ross, on stages of death and dying), rigid stages have been dismissed as too simplistic, and not a good explanation of what happens. Neither neurological development nor social engagement is enough to explain major changes in human behaviour.

And as I've said, several times, there seem to be a number of issues. What they have in common is that the spouse makes a major, shocking change in their behaviour which leaves us LBS reeling, deeply hurt and confused. When we are confused, we seek solace and many of us want explanations. For some, its religion, for others, it's to see a pattern in their behaviour which helps us to accept it.

I'm no exception (except I am not religious). Which is how I came to this site.

What I like about this site is the support, the idea of hope, the self-reflection, and access to many articles. RRR is particularly open and accepting, encouraging questions. She even suggested the topic "Does MLC exist?" She doesn't take a rigid views, although she offers her clear insights. In other words, she isn't dogmatic, despite having her point of view. It's a perspective which I think shows great tolerance, confidence and openness, which I value, and also recognise as important qualities in adaptation.

It's through this site that I began to understand the many and varied perspectives of what we call MLC (as I said, it's like the word "headache"... the apparent similarities belie the differences in the cause).

What's troubling about MLC being a single thing is that it doesn't allow for insight into particular cases, and it actually creates a culture of expectations (paradoxically for this site, which recommends not having them), by "following the process".

The best process, and so well encouraged here, is individual growth, independence, detachment and living our own lives. Many of us have changed and grown as a result. But meanwhile, for those of us who still have a spouse at home to deal with, and tough decisions to make, the expectation that MLC will just run its course and end, is not enough.

I still refer to my H's more unpredictable behaviour as his MLC. And it was, of sorts. But the reason that I'm back here is that all the explanations of stages, tunnels and seeing the light are just not enough to explain his behaviour.

It's absolutely essential that we recognise that MLC is an umbrella term for many different things.

[kikki]

Mermaid, I hate to be blunt, but you've been flying all over the forum in recent days and  it seems that you are now accepting what most of us who have been looking at brain function (as one puzzle piece in the perfect storm that has hit our spouses at midlife), have accepted long ago. That there is likely not a 'magical unicorn tunnel story' for our spouse. 

What I personally witnessed, I believe and have believed for a very long time, is unlikely to ever fully resolve.  This is a man who, if he accepts that he even has health/personal issues to deal with, will likely have to manage himself for life. It would appear that you are now considering this for your situation too.

You have written that one of your main hurts re your husband is his superiority towards you.  Have you considered that you may be unconsciously projecting this onto these threads?  You seem to be trying to convince us all of something that we came to terms with long ago. 

[Mermaid]

Mermaid, I hate to be blunt, but you've been flying all over the forum in recent days and  it seems that you are now accepting what most of us who have been looking at brain function (as one puzzle piece in the perfect storm that has hit our spouses at midlife), have accepted long ago. That there is likely not a 'magical unicorn tunnel story' for our spouse. 

I don't mind that you are blunt, Kikki, but I've accepted this for a long time. I've been on this forum, on and off, for over 6 years, like you, and came to that conclusion long ago. I admit to incredulity at certain comments recently where people thought Brain function was THE cause of MLC, or that there is one cause underlying it. I am somewhat bemused when you say you think I am now accepting this???

What I personally witnessed, I believe and have believed for a very long time, is unlikely to ever fully resolve.  This is a man who, if he accepts that he even has health/personal issues to deal with, will likely have to manage himself for life. It would appear that you are now considering this for your situation too.

That's true, very true, Kikki. No exit of the tunnel for my H. It also means that I have to see how well I can handle him and our R given my new insight into his degree of narcissism. I'm not sure, Kikki, I'm just not sure I can. It's almost like being faced with BD again. I suppose it makes me feel, deep down, somewhat furious at the simple versions of MLC.

You have written that one of your main hurts re your husband is his superiority towards you.  Have you considered that you may be unconsciously projecting this onto these threads? 

I don't think I'm projecting. I'll admit something, quite honestly. I've got a horrible side, and long have. I argue, discuss, take issue with things and react. I fully admit this as a fault, although it actually gets me ahead in my world, in academia, where it's at expected. I've done this forever. But I never like to hurt or humiliate, and I will always admit a fault. And I will listen to reasoned discussion, and cede issues where they are well founded.

On the narcissism thread, I quote dr Malkin, who says we all have our narcissistic moments. I have. One is where I argue, the other is when I get furious. And I have long admired my H's superior intelligence and knowledge. There's a reason we were attracted. That makes me a mirror of him. I actually think I'm good at some things and terrible at others, like most people, which makes me normal. He is good at everything (except personal relationships), and works hard to maintain that lead, physically (in sports) and intellectually. He can neither admit failure or apologize.

On the other hand, I will also keep the peace, be very nurturing, fixing, taking care of others. That's echoism, the opposite of narcissism (and this is not necessarily healthy).

What it means is that my behaviour, fury, care taking and the way I react to him has to change more deeply.

I've been very open and honest here, Kikki. None of us is perfect, and facing our weaknesses is a way to grow.

You seem to be trying to convince us all of something that we came to terms with long ago.

You did, I did (we both discussed MLC on a post 5 years ago ), but not everyone does. Many people don't. I guess  they believe what they need to believe.

But despite my open admissions here, while this forum is about open discussion, do you really think  that I should stay silent? I find that very worrying.