[Thunder]

Really,

I hope I didn't come off as making a blanket statement with what I said.

I do not think a quick D or a quick separation is necessary for everyone.  Not everyone, such as yourself, needs that.
If a person is ok financially and is not worried about the MLCer wanting to take the kids away then I certainly would not divorce quickly.

I just meant there are LBS's who could benefit from it.

Also, even if you did divorce for financial reasons you can still stand and try to work on connecting with your xspouse.  No law against that.   

Just like NC is good for some people and bad for others.  All up to us and what works.
I would never judge another for what they decide.

It's good we're getting so many different opinions on this subject.

RCR will have her work cut out for her when she gets back.  lol   

[Absolutely Fabulous]

I think that it is probably best to divorce right away in most instances. At the very least, to retain a very good lawyer. One key MLC fantasy is the easy divorce involving no lawyers. I agree that the LBS main goal should be financial protection.

One advantage I can see about doing this later is that the LBS is often more together emotionally, which can be helpful in navigating issues. I have read that oftentimes when someone is blindsided by a divorce they have a hard time advocating for themselves.

Also, I think that a year in (my situation) the MLCer is more of a mess and sloppy with his lies. Many are so arrogant and self assured at bomb drop they don't read as crazy. My ex now looks very unwell and does not come across as together.

This is also the reason why a separation agreement with child support is good for those who aren't being pushed, but threatened with divorce. It's a 2 fold protection: you can stay married, but are insured that your income won't be affected as much as it would if there were no agreement.

I got divorced last year. I had been BD 3 times before the divorce, and my XH was hellbent on taking everything. I was blessed with a lawyer that told me to file first in my state, but not petition. This turned out to be a godsend.

We kept things in our state, and it cost him a small fortune to get everything done. All the money he had taken from myself and the girls was eaten up in legal costs. Harsh lesson, but saved me and the girls from not being taken care of somewhat financially.

Had I waited, he would have filed from where he was and gotten everything, including custody of my kids with me In Absentia. And, yes he tried. You never know what they are capable of.

I don't believe that any of them are in their right mind, so it's up to us to be in ours. Take the precautions, and by all means retain a lawyer. You may not need them, but you do need to know what your options are. No matter which way it goes, forewarned is forearmed.

[Phoenix]

My apologies if I was not clear enough, ReallyTrying. Protecting oneself does not always mean a speedy divorce or separation. I did not divorce for nearly 6 years. It depends on the state/country one lives in and what options are availalbe, and what the MLCer will agree to. In my case, we worked out a Separation Agreement that was held by our attorneys, but not filed with the court until my H filed for divorce years later. But all had been determined--and was being adhered to--in advance of that for my and D's protection. My agreement stated that child support would be based on income numbers at the commencement of a divorce, but that too was a calculated risk, given exH could have destroyed his finances by then.

Additionally, depending on the laws--and sometimes the judges--in your area, the income a spouse was making when you initially separated may be used rather than the increasing income over the years. For example, if a spouse has moved out and can demonstrate entirely separate living for a year or more, some MLC attorneys have successfully argued that the date of "separation " be retroactively applied and that the income as of that earlier time period be used for purposed of child support and/or maintenance, which is why I was more protected by my separation agreement than just leaving things to chance, but that is only because my calculations about him ended up correct in that instance. Many things I thought I knew about him ended up to not hold true. It could also have gone badly by specifying the use of the later income as MLCers tend to go downhill for awhile, including financially.

The point is not to make anyone do anything. It is to better ensure the LBSs are fully aware so that she or he can make the best decisions for themselves and their children. If, knowing the risks and benefits, you have determined that your best and most secure course of action is not to have a formal agreement, that is by all means your decision to make. The concern is those LBSs who don't fully know or consider their whole picture in its entirety until it's too late. 

I hope that better clarifies,
Phoenix

[Searching4Answers]

I have consistently said providing blanket pronouncements about how to act or behave is dangerous.

I think that this is generally true in life and under normal situations a person who is thinking clearly and has a good sense of self can weigh the options for themselves and take what they need and leave the rest. However, (speaking from my experience) the LBS is usually a hot mess and desperate to save their relationship and will try anything that they read in order to accomplish this. I remember all of the suggestions/advice that I got in the early days and how I tried (and failed) to implement the suggestions and felt worse because I was clearly not getting it because it worked for other people but not me. As I grew and understood more I could read the suggestions/advice with a grain of salt and try the ones that made sense to my situation.

Here's my take:

- Not everyone who comes here has a spouse in MLC.

I completely agree but the LBS does not figure this out for a very long time but they apply the knowledge and suggestions to their situation - this why we should to be careful with blanket statements because many of us don't know what we are really dealing with for years.

[Onward]

RCR herself, on this thread, said this topic was controversial on the moderator board.
And posted it anyway.

If the point was to spread the controversy from the moderator board to the general membership, it has succeeded. Well done.

To be honest, I have no idea what the point of the blog post was.

The forum and the articles make it very clear there are no guarantees.

The post wasn't about hope.
The word was used only once, to give you hope Chuck and I reconciled.

It wasn't about patience.

It wasn't about forgiveness.

And it sure as heck hasn't encouraged modelling the very thing she said was most important, which is agape love and loving them home.

The people who talk about loving their spouses unconditionally, and behaving in ways that love them home, are scoffed at. So they go quiet on the forum, or leave.

Frankly, I was very discouraged by the whole thing.

I am sure LP will come along and remind me that I was the first one to say 'just a minute', because I am a 'trouble maker' who RCR has had to "call out" before.

And that's discouraging, too.
Because I'm just another long term stander who, after more than two long hard lonely years is still holding space for her H. Who every day makes the choice to grow into a healthier person. Responsible to the obligations before BD, trying to be on good terms with other people, her self and her God.

Knowing bloody well her H left.
He fits the MLC profile to a T.
The reality is there is NO sign he will return.
NO regret for the hurt he caused.
I NO longer have a comfortable home that us mine.
I NO longer can retire when I wanted.
I NO longer even have the financial security I had before I met him 20 years ago.

And I NO longer believe HS is actually supportive of people like me who are living their lives well, not initiating a divorce, and maintaining hope that it is possible, no matter how unlikely, that their spouse will return.

[Searching4Answers]

The point is not to make anyone do anything. It is to better ensure the LBSs are fully aware so that she or he can make the best decisions for themselves and their children. If, knowing the risks and benefits, you have determined that your best and most secure course of action is not to have a formal agreement, that is by all means your decision to make. The concern is those LBSs who don't fully know or consider their whole picture in its entirety until it's too late. 

Well put Phoenix.

Knowledge is power and we should always be aware of all of the options - especially the ones that we don't really want.

[Thunder]

I agree, Phoenix.

How many times have you hear "I wish I would have filed sooner?"
Sometimes the MICer spends a lot of money they can't re-coop or has time to hide their money.

One on here was making $3,000 a week and before she divorced him he quit his job and took a job making $500 (or something like that) a month so he wouldn't have to pay as much in child support.  They can be very resourceful when it benefits them.

One had the laws change and it was not beneficial to them to have waited so long.

Like you said we all need good information to make a smart decision towards our future.
I don't feel it's pushing divorce, just putting out information that could help protect them.

[Thunder]

Oh Onward, please don't feel like that.

I have huge respect for anyone who can hang in there for years (as long as their living their lives), if my H hadn't divorced me I would be one of the long time standers.   

I would not have divorced him.

[Searching4Answers]

And I NO longer believe HS is actually supportive of people like me who are living their lives well, not initiating a divorce, and maintaining hope that it is possible, no matter how unlikely, that their spouse will return.

This saddens me Onward.

I am someone who believes in supporting people in what they want regardless of what my opinion is of the situation. Who am I to judge what you should or should not do with your life. I feel obligated to point out all the information to help make sure that the course of action has been thoroughly thought through - I worry that people make decisions on limited or skewed information but if it has been thought through, more power to you.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

I also am in agreement with Phoenix. I used the word "quickly" not "immediately". Quickly is in the eye of the beholder, and therefore relative.