[evas]

It's not a "personal attack". I'm pointing out that Trump's ok with discrimination against women and everyone who votes for him is also since they seem to think it's ok to treat half the population that way. If you voted for Hitler you were ok with his views on minorities as well. It's bull to come and say "Oh, but I really liked the autobahns that Hitler built and all the jobs he created and he was a fresh puff of air" or whatever. Don't come and tell me you don't know. Don't come and tell me it's OK and it's just locker room banter.

I'm not attacking OP for his political views. I have Republican friends. None of them voted for Trump. Even the Bush family took a public stance against him as did many others. I don't think Trump represent Republican values.

It is you who refuse to understand. Is it hurtful to call out people for their misogynist views? I'm a woman, I'm saying that if it were me, I would leave a man who discriminate against women. And that's what I wrote. That I understand if a woman leaves because a man thinks it's ok to call her names simply because of her gender.

[lawprofessor]

I must say I have enjoyed the discussion on this thread.

1.  It is fantastic to see people here taking an interest in something other than a depressive recounting of and singular focus on MLC.  To me that is a reminder that the world keeps moving forward even though Mlc has struck our homes.  Therefore, we must as well.  And yes there are bigger things going on in the world than Mlc, more important things as well. 

2.  This thread has also shown clearly that we are a diverse yet intelligent group of individuals with our own thoughts and opinions.  Some I agree with and some I don't. 

3.  The thread has also shown that there is an awful lot of work to be done still for getting messages to various groups of people.  Each now might want to consider how to adjust the presentation of their message so others may be more receptive.

4.  Part of that adjustment goes directly to a comment made by karmitsaghik concerning the Democratic party no longer being a party of the people to paraphrase.  I too believe that.  I'm a professor that holds 2 PhDs and a law degree.  I am also the first generation of children born in this country in my family. My father holds a PhD in Mathematics and worked a second job at night first loading box cars by hand and then promoted as a machine operator in the factory.  He is also a military veteran of 2 wars.  I worked in factories full time from the time I was 17 until 30.  As a professor it is easy to slip in to believing particular ideas and assuming others believe that way as well.  Its the white ivory castle on the hill syndrome.  Reality is not always so easy to swallow when it smacks us in the face.  At that point a re evaluation of the message and its delivery is called for in my mind.  This is an opportunity to do just that by many sides. 

5.  There are several important messages contained in these threads. 
A.  Americas decision have a huge impact on other countries, not just our own.  Being a Super Power carries with it privileges and responsibilities to ourselves, our neighbors, and to the world. 
B.  Many Americans don't know or understand the functioning of our own government. 
C.  There is still a huge gap between men and women as to what is considered appropriate and respectful behavior.  What are we modeling for our children and grandchildren?
D.  Each person has a duty to participate in the governmental process one way or another.  It is our duty as citizens not just of the US but all countries. 
E.  Withdrawing and ignoring, hiding our heads in the sand, being conflict avoidant is not productive.  Sometimes it may work but other times you end up with a President you find truly offensive and in conflict with all you believe.  If you've made no effort, you are simply making yourself a victim of other peoples whims and decisions.  Those who put in effort.  Don't complain if you chose not to make an effort.  Do better next time.
F.  Yes politics is often bloody and ugly.  From the time of the First Continental Congress, in the US, the Founding Fathers screamed, fist fought, dueled, and wrote strongly worded articles and letters.  Yes there were many personal attacks on each other as well.  That was one of the things that Jefferson, Adams, Franklin and Hancock said was a great strength of the US.  The ability to be able to fight for a position without risking censorship of the topic by an elite.  That was the beginning of the right of Free Speech. 
G.  Patriotism is not just agreeing with anything and everything the government and its supporters say.  It is not something to hide behind in an argument.  It is being involved and giving back to your country.  It is tough love as well, stating differences when you think your country is wrong, doing something below its high standards.  Yesterday I was flaming mad about a post related to patriotism.  Patriots can be both conservatives and liberals.  Who is this person to perhaps suggest that I, the wife of a career Marine, legal advisor to a division of the military, translator and contact worker to the DOD, was not patriotic simply because we differed in political party?  Then I screwed my head back on and actually read what was written and saw I was reacting not thinking.  And I put down my poison key pad.  She had a right to say or hint at what she said, even if I was reading in to it.  That was my problem.  Free speech is the right of all.  Even if it hurts my feelings. 
Lp

[Thunder]

Phoenix, I sadly agree.

To elect a man who is abusive to women to the highest office in the land is depressing.
What were people thinking???

Did they really think this narcasistic man was going to do what? ..make America better???  Safer?? Want other countries to respect our ideals???
I'm sure they are all laughing at us and more importantly fearing his ties to Russia who is no ones friend.  Putin actually congratulated Trump.   

[Roma]

Came home from work, and saw on Rachel Maddow, things I heard in the campaign, yet I dismissed it. Russia (Putin) Government were the ones that leaked Clinton's email, hence scared the people into voting for Trump.

I can only assume they are sitting around laughing at how easy it was to interfere w/ US Democracy and have people actually put such a fool in office and have us at odds with each other.

They supposedly have spies close to Trump...still.

Oh yes, we are going to have times, like before when discrimination laws were never in place, like before most of us were even born.

Bottom line I am scared what can of worms this election has opened up. More than scared. Frightened, especially because my H is............well you know.

[karmirtsaghik]

Thunder,
 I read today a note from Russian embassy, comfirming in fact that they were communicating with Trump campaign during the election. So there is yet another disturbing fact about Trump. I personally would have had trouble shaking hands with a man who voted for Trump. Because he is just an exemplification  of ugly in all senses of the word. And I do not even like HC. I am also more concerned about racially motivated attacks and rhetoric than anti Trump protesters. I feel very worried about the future of America.

[osb]

Think this election has been triggering to many women on this particular board because we know quite starkly what it means to be marginalized, gaslighted, diminished... fwiw, I've felt hands tight around my throat; am also a rape survivor, from many years back; I know, like so many of you know, that cold feeling in the veins. Perhaps we are seeing in this election the same experiences writ large, in the conversations around women (and what you can do to them with impunity), and around the first female presidential candidate. We also know too well what narcissism sounds like, and what happens when it flies off the handle. 

I will point out that many other countries have managed to elect female heads of state. Including, in some cases, countries Mr Trump would call 'less than free' because some women in those countries may choose to wear a scarf on their heads. From my outside view, the accolade 'leader of the free world' sits awkwardly on any country that has not yet supported its own women to seek its highest office. Someday that day will come.

At the same time, it's your country, your country's values, and your country's demographics. We can discuss it politely (how else, I'm Canadian ) and agree to disagree.

[stayed]

I'm just so sad!  Sad that I actually know a man that I spent hours during my crisis and his, talking on face book chat.  I cannot understand how he, the most gentle of men, could actually put a check mark next to that mans name.  I could see him voting for a republican congressman, republican senate... republican whatever... but I cannot understand how my dear friend OP could put a check mark next to Donald Trumps name. 

Sorry, I shouldn't make this so personal but of all the people I have met or know from this forum, OP is the very last person I would ever have expected to buy into a bunch of lies.  Even if every word that man said was true, the fact that he treats WOMAN the way he does, should have been enough to make it impossible for the man I know, to actually VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

I don't know of a single woman that has not been sexually violated at least once in their life.  Now that does not mean actual penetration, but having a kiss with tongue thrust down your throat, against your will, is assault.  Having someone put their hand up your skirt or on your breast, uninvited, unsolicited.  That's assault. 

In some ways the sexual assault is easier to take then the words.  I remember trying to watch his rallies and he would come in there, and he would start talking, diarrhea of the mouth.  He couldn't stay focused on his message because he was too busy responding to some of the WRONGS that he felt people were saying about him.  He just couldn't stop defending himself and accusing others for saying these things about him.  The lying media, the lies, lies, lies they were saying about him.  Yet he got more free media time then any other candidate ever.  He was calling they up, talking and talking.  Then would accuse them of misinterpreting him.  He would start people chanting... LOCK HER UP... in fact, towards the end of the voting around 2 am in the morning CNN went to his center and people were chanting LOCK HER UP... LOCK HER UP!  And THEY WERE WINNING!  What would they lock her up for, she has been found completely innocent of any crime.  If it wasn't her, he was mocking somebody else.  His voice would drone on and on... and the things he said, they were so hurtful, so crude... so rude... totally vulgar!
e
I wonder if your daughter has ever been sexually assaulted OP.  Had a tongue thrust down her throat or worse.  The chances are pretty likely, and you know the sad part, if you don't know and this has happened to her... then SHE DIDN'T TELL YOU!  How sad is that?  I never reported the guy that tried to rape me.  Never.  I just went home, threw up and NEVER gave any man unaccompanied a ride home, ever again.  Yep, that was my solution.  Sad eh? 

I'm a newz junkie and I have not watched the news since the night of the election. The last news I heard was the Trump camp, chanting... LOCK HER UP...LOCK HER UP!  I have resorted to reading my news, returned the old fashion way.  Need my fix.  I have read about the protests, I saw that Trump and Obama had lunch today and that Obama has graciously agreed to do everything he can to make the transition easier.  I read this, I skimmed over the picture of that man sitting next to Obama.  Obama looked so kindly, so dignified, so Barrack Obama. 

What have you done America?  What have you done? 
Stayed

[OldPilot]

New thread

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8399.0