Skip to main content

Author Topic: Off-Topic US ELECTION #2

  • *
  • Mentor
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2128
  • Gender: Female
Off-Topic Re: US ELECTION #2
#110: November 15, 2016, 07:00:20 AM
Voting decisions do speak to core values. We can't conveniently separate them out because they are difficult to reconcile with the people we know and a country we love.

Anyone who votes for a political candidate is endorsing that person and is making a statement that whatever flaws, issues, ugliness they exhibit is secondary to other things they (the voter) has determined are more important. This board can debate all day which issues are deal breakers and, like the country, we aren't going to agree, because our core values are different and that is exactly the problem and exactly why people fear for their safety and lives and those of their children and loved ones.

Though the majority of Americans did not vote for Trump, we can't deny that approximately 25% of eligible voters did. And, as one moderate Republican said recently, "Even if it makes us feel better to say that those who voted for Trump are not actively racist, homophobic, mysogynistic, xenophobic..., it cannot be denied that they were still willing to vote for someone who is."  And many of those same people are now not grasping what it means to have a proudly self-admitted, and well-known white nationalists appointed to a Whitehouse position with top secret clearance. There is an ignorance or denial or something more sinister in this country that boggles the mind. Just how many examples of deplorable do people need?  Just where is that tipping point for each of us?

And, yes, my husband would absolutely have killed our marriage had he voted for Trump. Betrayal is betrayal. And that action would have been a direct assault on D and me as women and humans of value, as well as who we are and what we value fundamentally. It would also have been a betrayal of the human rights, dignity, equality, and safety of others which I would not be able to respect and it would have made H untrustworthy to me given my core values. The betrayal and the loss of respect and trust would have destroyed my marriage if he voted for Trump, just as his betrayal of D and me, our friends, his change in core values, etc. destroyed our marriage in MLC. And H would have felt the same about me, if I voted for Trump, as our shared values were a fundamental part of what brought us together and made us attractive and partner and parent material to the other.

I'm not an alarmist, by nature, but anyone who works, or is an activist, in the area of human rights and dignity has seen this coming for a long time ---a wave of fear as the world and our country diversifies and people are faced with the unfamilar, the unknown and those they too often believe are competition for jobs and survival, or are a threat to their way of life and way of thinkng and worshipping. That is what this vote was about....fear. Fear of the "other." Fear I won't get mine if someone else gets theirs. Fear that some mythical America of yesteryear is disappearing. Fear that woman gaining equal footing emasculates men. Fear about global issues. Fear about the economy. Fear about Christianity being diluted.

This is the same exact fear that Hitler was able to manipulated and capitalize on and use to lull people into a sense of security that he had the answers and would save them and they followed all the way to their demise, the obliteration of their country and his accumulation of massive wealth and power. There is a tremendous arrogance or naivite in thinking that just because it's almost 2017 and this is America and we have a "free" press, and checks and balances, blah, blah, blah that this can't happen here. We have to wake up. We are no better and no different than other countries in which this has, or is happening, in modern times. All the same elements are in place as are the same lack of safe guards. America has been under the impression that certain things could never happen because they aren't "allowed." Now we are learning certain things never happened because our better angels prevailed or it was the practice of past administrations which was respected, in turn, by each new Administration... until now.

I won't stand by silentely or complacently while the country my daughter lives in teters on the precipice of fear and hate. We have time to do something. Time to not go down the path that other countries now find themselves on. Time to make our world truly better for all children and none are lesser because their parents are black or brown, Jewish, Muslim, Gay, Trangender, econonmically insecure... But our first step is in understanding that people who voted for Trump have fundamental values that allowed him to get this far. Now the question is how many of those same people will wake up and see this is not the direction they wanted or intended and stand with others in saying: This will not happen here. We will not let you take us backwards. We will not let you make us hate mongers. We will not allow the demeaning and abuse of others. We will not value another person's dignity and rights less than our own. We will not. We will not. That too is grace.

Phoenix

  • Logged
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 08:21:32 AM by Phoenix »
Married 24 years
Together 30
D (young adult now)
BD 2010
He is a vanisher
Divorced 2016

  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8239
  • Gender: Female
Re: US ELECTION #2
#111: November 15, 2016, 08:27:34 AM
Quote
And, yes, my husband would absolutely have killed our marriage had he voted for Trump. Betrayal is betrayal.

Maybe it isn't like this for every marriage, but this is me, too! That's why I was so disturbed by my xH's involvement with the tea party/extremist stuff when he'd essentially been the opposite of that before. It was like he'd joined a cult. There is no way that could have coexisted in our marriage and it would be a huge roadblock to reconciliation. If he'd had any of those leanings prior, we would not have been together. Foundation is foundation, and without being able to reconcile those beliefs at base level, I have no clue what we would be building on.
  • Logged

  • *
  • Mentor
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 12404
  • Gender: Female
Re: US ELECTION #2
#112: November 15, 2016, 08:51:47 AM
Thank you Phoenix for speaking honestly and opening about this.

There are things happening that just should not be happening. I hope for the best and that we do not become divided even more on the many issues that have reared their ugly head with this election.
  • Logged
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

R
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2076
Re: US ELECTION #2
#113: November 15, 2016, 09:22:38 AM
Hi Phoenix,

The majority of Americans voted for Hillary Clinton. Trump won by having more of the Electoral votes, which is why I say we stop using the Electoral College system for President.

Still way too many of the Trump voters around to me and we really don't know if they all stand for all the bigotry Trump spewed while he was campaigning.

I personally recently have purchased self protection because you just never know who is who or how people really feel and I'd prefer to be safe than sorry.
  • Logged

  • *
  • Mentor
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 5091
  • Gender: Female
Re: US ELECTION #2
#114: November 15, 2016, 10:34:48 AM
Quote
I say we stop using the Electoral College system for President.

The reason this system is used is to eliminate an extremely small percentage of the country (who tend to live in extremely concentrated areas) have the ability to elect the candidate of their choice to the exclusion of the rest of the country. The Electoral College allows for equal input from more sparsely populated areas. It may not be perfect, but its a fair system.

Quote
I personally recently have purchased self protection because you just never know who is who or how people really feel and I'd prefer to be safe than sorry.
I have carried for years. There have been evil people since time began, its nothing new.
  • Logged
Married 18
BD April 2012
Left home Nov 2012
Home May 2016

  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8239
  • Gender: Female
Re: US ELECTION #2
#115: November 15, 2016, 10:41:48 AM
I absolutely agree on the electoral college, Slow Fade. It is frustrating when we have elections like this where popular vote and electoral college aren't congruent, but it does its job the way it is set up to do.
  • Logged

V
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2973
  • Gender: Female
Re: US ELECTION #2
#116: November 15, 2016, 10:44:33 AM
The word integrity comes from the word "intact": whole, integrated.

When we have integrity our actions, words, beliefs are integrated: how we treat one another, how we speak about one another, how we behave whether or not someone is watching.

To vote for someone who publicly endorses sexism, racism, bigotry, and xenophobia is to vote without integrity. It reveals a lack of wholeness of the person.

All humans are flawed and we are all always learning. True integrity is a daily task involving many tests of our integrity and facing/owning/correctling when we fail to uphold our own deep values. At least in theory, religion recognizes this in its daily and weekly rituals and sermons to remind us to the ideals we hold and aspire to.

For me my personal and political experience collided with this election. What we see in MLC is exactly what we see in this election -- a "did-ease" and in my belief a true mental sickness that spreads from one generation to another when boys and men grow up with some idea that they are not empathetic, tender, connected to, and aligned with all other humans. When they are not INTEGRATED, or whole.

I applaud any one who calls out someone who acts without integrity, and even more so who can do it with persuasion, persistence -- and their own integrity intact.
  • Logged

  • *
  • Mentor
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 5091
  • Gender: Female
Re: US ELECTION #2
#117: November 15, 2016, 11:03:08 AM
I absolutely agree on the electoral college, Slow Fade. It is frustrating when we have elections like this where popular vote and electoral college aren't congruent, but it does its job the way it is set up to do.
And we need to understand as far as the popular vote is concerned that not all of the absentee ballots were counted if it was decided that the number of absentee ballots would not affect the outcome of the vote at the polls so we really don't know who actually "won" the popular vote......

Quote
When we have integrity our actions, words, beliefs are integrated: how we treat one another, how we speak about one another, how we behave whether or not someone is watching.

To vote for someone who publicly endorses sexism, racism, bigotry, and xenophobia is to vote without integrity. It reveals a lack of wholeness of the person.
I agree. And this is why I voted the way I did. However I think that to throw a tantrum like a two year old and to riot (yes, riot not protest) in the streets just because the vote did not go according to how your personal integrity thought it should go is rather hypocritical. It lacks the tolerance, love and inclusion that people say one candidate lacks. How does that make one side any better than the other? I'm embarrassed for the people who are trying to forcibly impose their will upon a populace who have exercised their right in the constitutional fashion that is set up in this country. Protest? Sure. But to destroy property, ridicule others, physically attack people? How is that better? Personally my candidate did not win. However I do NOT want to be associated with people who act like some people in the country are acting. That goes against MY integrity. 
  • Logged
Married 18
BD April 2012
Left home Nov 2012
Home May 2016

k
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 745
  • Gender: Female
Re: US ELECTION #2
#118: November 15, 2016, 11:20:25 AM
I am with Phoenix, Velika, and R2T. I could not imagine being married to somebody who has voted for Trump, i.e. for the ideals and values that he represent. I could see it in Roomney vs. Obama scenario, but this is a completely different animal.
Slow Fade
Do you want me to offer meditation classes and reflexology to people who vandalized church yesterday in my community, or for the white supremasists that now effectively took over the West Wing of White House? Please, be real. There should be absolutely zero tolerance for deeds and words like this. We should use all legal means in our disposal, including protesting. It is our constituional right. Otherwise, I would have problems looking my daughter in the eye, when she asked me why we did not do anything when her future was at stake.
  • Logged

R
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2076
Re: US ELECTION #2
#119: November 15, 2016, 11:34:27 AM
I rest near NYC. I'm embarrassed that Trump comes from here. I still have a queasy feeling in my stomach from this election.

One funny thing I've always thought Trump wanted to be. It's from a movie in the 90's starring Christopher Walken called 'King of New York'. The character's name was  Frank White. Not a comedy at all yet showed Frank White had this massive ego that I feel Trump has. I feel Trump thinks he was already was the King of New York, so now that and reality tv seemed to bore him, he ran to be King the the world lol

Trump,  I feel saw the election as a contest, something to win, and then it's over. I don't feel he thinks it's just starting. I feel he is completely clueless, unqualified and unprepared.

I fear for our future. It was on the news last night Trump had a very recent conversation w/ Russian 'President?' Putin. Is it just me that feels Putin had something to do w/ the Wikileaks leaked email of Clinton to have Trump win?
  • Logged
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 11:44:36 AM by Elegance »

 

Legal Disclaimer

The information contained within The Hero's Spouse website family (www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com, http://theherosspouse.com and associated subdomains), (collectively 'website') is provided as general information and is not intended to be a substitute for professional legal, medical or mental health advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. The Hero's Spouse cannot be held responsible for the use of the information provided. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a trained medical or mental health professional before making any decision regarding treatment of yourself or others. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a legal professional for specific legal advice.

Any information, stories, examples, articles, or testimonials on this website do not constitute a guarantee, or prediction regarding the outcome of an individual situation. Reading and/or posting at this website does not constitute a professional relationship between you and the website author, volunteer moderators or mentors or other community members. The moderators and mentors are peer-volunteers, and not functioning in a professional capacity and are therefore offering support and advice based solely upon their own experience and not upon legal, medical, or mental health training.