[No expectations]

Den,

Thank you so much for all your insights.  It really has helped me, to understand what you felt (or didn't feel!), and why you did what you did.  I am sure it is tough to post all this and strip yourself in front of all of us, but it has made a difference. 

I do believe that the OW doesn't mean anything to him, just not sure he knows that.  And that's the part that is hardest

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Hang in there Watcher, we're all having our patience sorely tested. I'm not standing ( enjoying being single ), but it would be nice if he wanted to be a real father again. I don't think I'll want him back, I'm loving the mirror work. All of his siblings have gone through A MLC so...  My mom did when I was in my early 20's, so I hope my kids don't go through one.

[Treasure]

Denjef .. My h has been at this 2 and a half years plus. And looks like he'll never come through his fog ! He's a vanisher as such .. We've just had a baby granddaughter and I was wondering if big events like this permeates the fog anytime and makes them think. He still seems so into ow. just seems to want the divorce over and done with .. X

[denjef31]

Denjef,

I get the infatuation. My W has described it exactly as you have stated. It is extremely frustrating. It was a 1 month relationship and here I am 17 months later. He is long gone but not for her. It was not physical.

I fight with myself constantly trying to rationalize this moment in time. I so want to have it out with her but I know it will be pointless. My Dr tells me to be patient. Time, time, time. Thats what he says. Eventually she will explain herself? Or do we act like it never happened ? I am trying to rise above this and be a better person. We are always left with more questions

In the end, it just doesn't seem fair. That is my problem.

Thanks for sharing. I appreciate it.

There is no rationalizing it. A sane person would not do the things a depressed/mlc person does period. Is it fair? NO. Yet this is the task we have been assigned. No one asks to be depressed and the spouses don't ask to be abandoned or cheated on. Honestly, from my own experience when the fog is deep we do not see that what we are doing is wrong, we understand you are hurt by it, but we feel entitled to the things we are doing. In our minds we feel we deserve to be happy, and if that happiness means we end our marriage so be it we wish you well and hope we can be friends, but we are not going to stick around just because you are hurting. That's how I felt and that is how most depressed/mlc people feel. This is why you will see the running/withdrawing. We feel if we stay away the spouse will eventually get over us, move on, find someone else and go be happy like we are.

That's why patience is needed. That's why everyone says time is your friend. With time the fog will lift, the addicting infatuative feelings fade, and the reality of what we have done, the people we have hurt, and what truly matters start to take over and we start to try to make amends, rebuild torn down relationships, contemplate returning to the marriage. Your grace and forgiveness is what determines if they will just seek another relationship or try to work things out. Your wife Watcher is struggling and still fighting inner demons. This was never about the OM, and that's why she has  not made a decision either way. She is stuck in her head. She still doesn't know what to do about her life, so she wallows in self pity. At some point you will have to shake things up a bit to help bring her through. I do not know if that time is now, but there will come a time if she continues on this path of nothingness.

I am pretty sure she is doing what I did for 3 years, lived in my head, withdrawn from my real life, and my real family. My feelings of infatuation only lasted about 6 months but I still struggled and was stuck for another 2.5 years. The ending of the affair is just the beginning in my opinion. You don't see progress, but it is happening internally and mentally but very slowly.

[Butterfly777]

Den, your first paragraph hits the nail on the head . Just seeing it in written words is easier to understand where H is coming from rather than seeing it from my point of view all the time . The funny thing is I know it but just seeing it written helps tremendously ! Thank you for sharing .... It's comforting because my H isn't sharing so when you share your experiences I feel he's talking to me :-) he does share some things just not to the extent you do. And there's no doubt in my mind that what you described in your first paragraph is exactly what's going on with H . I am praying that God touches him that he at least has the courage to separate from OW when the fog starts lifting . My H has insecurities that are deep-seeded and his normal MO is to keep running or to settle because he's too embarrassed or doesn't feel good enough . I have always been there for him in the past so I'm gonna continue to be patient and be the lighthouse . They're just moments that I get in my head where I think he's actually happier without me . I know is not happier at least not what he thought it would be I can see it written on his face but you know how cycling goes . Gonna keep moving forward . I've been enjoying my mirror work and GAL . Thanks again for all of your insight it truly has helped me tremendously !! God bless

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I am pretty sure she is doing what I did for 3 years, lived in my head, withdrawn from my real life, and my real family. My feelings of infatuation only lasted about 6 months but I still struggled and was stuck for another 2.5 years. The ending of the affair is just the beginning in my opinion. You don't see progress, but it is happening internally and mentally but very slowly.

Thanks for this. I think this is the same for my wife. I'm pretty sure my wife's infatuation only lasted for about 6 months but it's been 2 1/2 years now and she's still with the om even though she's mentioned changing that situation several times over the past 2 years. It's very frustrating. During the last 6 to 12 months she's started reconnecting with my brothers and sister and their families and with her family and with our children and grandchildren and she FB messages me occasionally about trivial stuff so I think she's making progress.

Dec. 9th will be two years since she filed for divorce. No minor children involved, just splitting up our stuff, what the lawyers call an easy divorce. Last summer I had my lawyer tell her lawyer that I need to know what she wants from the divorce settlement. A week or two later we sat down and I helped her figure out what to tell her lawyer she wants after she came to me and admitted she doesn't know what she wants. She left more than 3 months ago to give her lawyer the list we came up with yet I still haven't heard anything from her lawyer. She has everything she needs to end our marriage anytime she wants, yet nothing has happened. I went through a similar although less severe identity crisis myself so I sympathize with her and kind of understand what she's going through but this waiting is mind-destroying.

[strength]

I am staying away from H.  I live 1000 miles from home.  I have no idea what is going on with H and OW except that they are still together 2 1/2+ years.  I don't believe H is anywhere near leaving OW.  With the 40 year age difference H is on such a high and madly in love.  They talk about M and babies.  I can't imagine starting a family in my 60's.  Grandchildren are this part of my life.  I cry for H and will be in love with H forever, but I have no choice but to stay away.  H shows no interest in me or the children at this point.  I am 1 year into D and it still goes on.  I have no answers anymore.  I have lost all hope.

[Watcher]

Denjef,

Thank you very much. Your response knocked me out and the value is immeasurable. I truly appreciate you for taking the time to respond.

[strength]

Den, Your words help so much.  What you write makes me realize it is not me or the children.  We had a wonderful M.  We are at the 3+ year point but there is no change with H/OW.  I have no idea where H is in the MLC but H life seems to be going well.  The destruction and trying to rebuild are the hardest thing I have ever experienced in my life.  My H now has cancer, but OW there with H.  Does this change the MLC and bring it to a deeper level?  I would think H would want his family at this point. 

[denjef31]

Strength,

That is not love, that is fog talking. What 60 year old would contemplate starting over having a baby and getting married again when they already have a family unless they are running? Your H is deep in replay and you probably are wise to stay far away right now because what you will witness during this stage will not be pretty. I do not mean to give anyone any false hope I truly don't because some spouses will not wake up if ever until it is too late. I can only share that the 3 years that I was depressed life pretty much passed me by in record speed as time appeared to stand still. I cant believe I was in mental anguish and torment for that long, and that I tormented and had my H in limbo for over 3 years but I did.

What we have to understand is that the marriage, and all responsibilities concerning our lives as we know it has been put on hold, put on the shelf to be figured out at a later time when they are able to process and understand it. They are not able to make any real decisions right now so they don't. I know you probably are thinking but they made a decision to leave, and they made a decision to have an affair. This is both conscious and unconscious. If you have never experienced an addiction it would be hard to describe for you to get a true understanding of what it is like to know what you are doing is wrong and hurting the people you love but to feel compelled to do it anyway.

Think of having an outer body experience where you see  yourself doing things, you want to stop, you don't want to hurt your spouse, your kids, but there you are hurting the people you swore to protect and love. It is like watching a dream of yourself doing things you would never do in real life...yet it is real life. Some people will block out these things because the reality of what they have done is too great. I blocked it out for a while and never addressed it or talked about it with anyone. Finally I felt a great need to talk about it, tell H what I was thinking and feeling during this time as he doesn't know anything about mlc and he didn't know I was depressed. I did a good job of fooling him and he believed I just fell out of love with him and wanted to start over with someone else.

I suffered from extreme guilt, H often says he never knew I felt anything as I did a good job of hiding my true self and feelings, and just running from him. Believe me despite what you see and hear from your spouse, they are not getting any real peace or joy. They stay up many nights thinking about you, they are tormented by the decision to leave you but they feel it is for the best (for now). They question there decision everyday and some are very close everyday to coming back home, but they know they are not ready so they stay with the OP when they know they are not happy and they know they have no future with this person.

Sometimes the decision to keep running and having you in limbo is about their own personal embarrassment for what they have done, lies they have told, the people they have hurt. They worry about what people will say and think if they come back, what will your family and friends think? Are your changes real, will it be different and can it last this time? They have to feel what they have with you is better than what they have with the OW/OM. The fear of losing you has to be greater than the desire to keep running. Until they get to this point all bets are off so you must put yourself in a new light so they can see you with a fresh pair of eyes. Hence giving this time and getting a life is very important if you intend to stand for your marriage.