[MadLuv]

Last thread
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11980.0

New thread and hoping for more health and healing. Time, knowledge and support continues to carry me through. I continue to be grateful to not be that swirling heap of that first year. Almost at end of 3 years. 3 months to go.   I hate to wish away time, but every year does get better and I am grateful for sleep and no more crying. Acceptance of all things, even when it’s not explainable. As I told my therapist. This is going to be with me for a long time. That I accept.  That doesn't mean that we stay stuck. It means we are normal humans.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose

perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

[MadLuv]

My daughter posted a song called Anatomy by Kenzie  today. If you have a MLCer that has abandoned his kids you will find this heartbreaking, yet relatable. These are the moments where I see just how her pain comes out in different ways and I hate that they can’t see the damage they cause.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Es0NOuDK2ns

Here are the lyrics

You called me today, on a random Tuesday
Don't ask me why I still have your number saved
Hello stranger, it's been forever
You're acting normal but nothing's normal about

Trust issues, and soaking tissues
Lyin' to my sister and sayin', "I don't miss you"
With no closure, just getting older
But you still see me as the kid on your shoulders

It's just anatomy, you're only half of me
And still, you don't know me at all
You've been my missing piece, so why aren't you missing me?
Guess I meant less than I thought
It's just anatomy
Hate that you're half of me

I hate when people say that our noses are the same
So I went and got it changed like three-quarters of L.A
And I dated $h!tety people 'cause of how you treated mom
Now I'm with somebody good but I'm still feeling numb 'cause of

Trust issues, I'm soaking tissues
Lyin' to my sister like I never miss you
Say you'll visit, empty promise
God, I wish that for once you'd be honest

It's just anatomy, you're only half of me
But still, you don't know me at all
You've been my missing piece, so why aren't you missing me?
Guess I meant less than I thought
It's just anatomy
Hate that you're half of me

[Evermore]

What a sad song. I loved your first post here MLuv (you are sounding so great!) but your second is so sad. Attaching to your new thread. xx

My D22 is away overseas. She's been gone over 4 weeks (home Sunday). She set up a family/close friends group Messenger group and has been occasionally (when I bug her about it!) posting pics and little updates on her travels (Europe). XH has posted a few things in that group which hinted (to me) that he wasn't in contact with her outside of that group chat (she's still been frequently messaging me - several times a day and calling every couple of days). Some of his requests for info/more pics were very sentimental. I was texting xH yesterday about some health insurance stuff and he confirmed he's had no contact with her since she's been away ("When does she get home? I haven't had any communication from her since away"). I messaged a friend and sent a screen shot saying how sad I was for him that she doesn't automatically reach out to him any more. Friend commented that communication goes both ways and she was sure D22 would reply to him if he messaged her. I told friend "I think he's too scared to message her in case she doesn't respond". How sad is that?! Reason for sending my story: they do great damage to the relationship with their kids even when they're not in communication, don't they. They know this, and they're sad about it. But they don't do much to fix it. I'm very sorry your adult kids are also having to suffer through this. 

[MadLuv]

Evermore, Gosh, I know. Right?  That positive start lasted an hour …lol
 In my XH case his shame is so high that he makes the least amount of attempt to contact his own kids.  I honestly don’t see him being sad about it like your husband. I wish he was. I think he only sulks about how it affects him. I told him while we were in communication that if he went on another vacation with her kids before his own that would cause damage that can’t be reversed. So, he does it anyways and what does she do? Post and post and post. Brag!!!!!  That is who he married and that is now who he is. He is the ultimate avoidant.

On my last thread I put that I am sad for him. I’m disgustingly sad that HE is ruining his life and humiliating himself with an over the top narcissist materialistic woman and kids. I think we all hope they will see the light and come back in the beginning and I think for me part of my overall sadness is that there is NO WAY I could ever get back with him and I know my kids will never view him the same nor will I  and I think that answers exactly why he is with who he is with and why he is now an absent father. He has said, you will never look at me the same again. He was right. I can’t. Even understanding MLC . It is just to much.

His desire and need to be viewed as someone he clearly is not is greater than the pain he is inflicting on those he once loved.  He is the weakest most selfish emotionally immature man right now. I hate that I see him that way now so clearly. I really thought he hung the moon. I thought he was the sweetest man. Morally wonderful, calm, centered. I think that is why it was so hard to accept. I’m sorry he is so lost, but I think he clearly knows he has a problem. He has told me he doesn’t want to deal with it. HE CANT!!!  As my therapist said. He has had my support for many many years. His kids have tried despite him to stay in his life. He and not any of us are rejecting him. It’s a choice to continue to run and not get help. He doesn’t want to see or talk to anyone from his past, but he definitely wants us there. It’s twisted. Of course my daughter was accurate when she said as long as we are not seen or heard from he can just not deal with his issues.

I am a little grateful to have an OW that is posting her insanity for everyone to see. It kind of validates the mess and superficial life they lead and also shows my kids that this is not who their father was. This is not about them, but like the pain we go through so do their children. As my daughter has said….He is the only father I will ever have, but she is firm that she will never talk or see him again. I do hope he finds a way to turn their relationship around some day.  It does give me anxiety.  I have a lot of anxiety for my son who doesn’t want to talk about it. I think he is in deep pain, but all I can do is tell him that I am there for him and I have reminded him that I don’t want him to internalize his pain and end up where his dad is.

Now… for the positives!!!

I am glad that we are finding ways to have fun and connect with my family and XH family. I am so grateful for his brother. Stepping up and almost being a father presence to them. That alone lets them know that it’s not them. We are going to a NFL game together next month and they are coming back to visit soon. Things could be worse. There is a beautiful life ahead and I am finally looking forward to it. The longer XH is gone the more normal get togethers, holidays become. I still wish none of this happened, but it did.

I can’t change it or wish it away or expect a miracle.  Those days are long gone.  I have accepted that like my D14 passing. There just is nothing we can do about what we can’t control. We lost a daughter and a sister and XH even in that doesn’t appreciate what he had and doesn’t care he is inflicting more pain. I tried to control this situation. I thought I had a wheel to turn to change the direction, but I didn’t. Took me a while to get here.

[toomanytearss]

Following along

[MadLuv]

Little update on XH. He definitely took a new position in another state and got an apartment and moved alone. No communication still with his children. The condo we owned together that he lived with OW and her daughter is not up for sale. They are not living together for now. Maybe just on Saturdays if he commutes or she does?  Just more odd behavior and decisions.  We will see if the condo goes up later.  They may have offered to cover temporary housing and my bet would be he jumped on that for a little space alone. It wont last. OW will not let her meal ticket slip away.

[MadLuv]

Sometime you wonder why me??? And then you slap yourself and say why not. Is someone else deserving of pain and challenges? My sweet dog collapsed Tuesday night. Could not stand on her back legs. Took her to emergency vet and she was diagnosed with sudden ivdd ( disc issues) stage 4. Paralyzed from the waste down. Prognosis is not good, but brought her home on many meds and am trying my best to save her.

I just had a job interview.  A recruiter called and it is with my XH same company of all things. Different state so no issues there and he would never know, but still. Went to the interview and they loved me and said they definitely wanted me. I should be hearing by next week. Problem is that it is an hr drive both ways and way below what I was paid and I now have a extremely disabled dog that needs to be crated and attended to around the clock. She is not even able to pee on her own.

I messaged XH with a screen print of my FB post on the situation. No response. I sent the bill to him with request for 1/2 payment ( which is in our divorce terms) we will see if he pays it. If she recovers it will be a long process and her prognosis is not good. I’m not going to lie. Every time I seem to try and move forward and make huge decisions , well it seems to come with something to know me down.
So, I am trying to not get in the whoa is me mode and just decide on everything using my gut and what it tells me to do.

My son had pool beer olympics here this weekend and I always love watching it, but I think I will miss most this year. I did help set up the outdoor decor before everything happened with my pup, so that was good.

Anyways, not a good update, but in a way it is. I truly have so much going on. I no longer care whether XH cares about anything. I dont have time for him and his issues. I do with that I could catch a break for a hit so I can move on in my life. I pray my pup can make a miraculous recovery. Time again will tell.

[xyzcf]

Our dogs are our family members...perhaps they actually act better than our families!

Oh dear, I am smiling as I had a frig magnet that said " my husband on a good day is what my dog is like everyday!" Perhaps Mr. xyzcf didn't find that amusing......

MadLuv, you have had more than your share of things to cope with, to grieve, to heal from and there is absolutely no need for any "acceptance" of these things. True, we know that they are out of our control, however, 1) having a partner to go through these things certainly helps and 2) there is just so much we can stand.....and then it's time for us to take a time out.

I have always loved the phrase "if you share your joys they are doubled and when you share your sorrows, they are halved"....as you know, most of us here struggle sometimes a lot, sometimes not so much.....I do not feel the "wholeness" I once felt...there is an area of "me" that has shut down, turned off, malfunctioned but the good thing is we survive..sometimes we thrive...we are able to stand still in the storm because this too shall pass.


Big HUGGGGS!!! Please let us know how your pup is. There are many animal lovers here.

[JohnnyBravo]

OH, MadLuv, I'm so sorry about your pup! Dogs are such great friends.

Fingers crossed for the job, though. Would the company have anything closer you could transfer to once you settle in? I also suspect it's easier to find another job when you already have one, so maybe this will at least get the momentum going.

Hugs,

JB

[MadLuv]

Thank you XYZCF- they are family. She is my bested bud. It’s heartbreaking
JB- I cant take the job with her like this. She has to have her bladder expressed every 4-6 hours. Cant walk. It has changed everything. The location is the closest to my home also, but still and hour away. Just bad timing. I feel like something bigger than me is working against me or working for me in a very bad way that is going to be better somehow and I can’t see it

[MadLuv]

I had to put my beautiful dog down today. I’m devastated. She was a completely healthy dog last week. She has been my light and love through all this and I can’t even imagine how these next weeks and months will be without her.  I should have had her for many more years. I will miss her beyond words.

I had to put down our other dog last year. I messaged my XH she was sick last week and today her passing. I did both by just sending my screen print from FB post. I also sent both bills as he  pays half her bills. I got no response. Not surprised.  Three months ago I told him I could not be his friend. He punishes by withholding communication. What I will say is that I told him when our other dog passed last year and I messaged him with no response that it was unbelievable to me. No “ thanks for letting me know”  so, what does he do? The same.

I am still amazed at the inability to do the slightest things a normal human would do. Not shocked however.  I will say that if I texted and said can you call me he would in seconds.  MLCers are quite subhuman. In 3 years I have lost my husband and both out dogs. Out life continues to just keep disappearing. I have never in my life not had a dog. As I was driving home today I said out loud. I dont have a dog?? I still can’t believe so much loss in such a short time.

[Reinventing]

So, so, sorry Madluv. So very painful.

[beyondblessed]

So very sorry for your loss, ML.  I lost my"baby" right after my D all those years ago, and that was even more difficult than watching xh fade away at that same time.  I did call him and he came to the vet, but left just as quickly.  However, in the end, he did pay the bill at least.  It is sad how robotic and inhuman they become.

  Just know that your beloved doggie is in a better place waiting for you and that things will come together, with brighter days ahead. It's moments like these that strengthen us and moves us further forward, as painful as it is at the time.

[MadLuv]

Thank you reinventing and BB for the puppy love 💔

[MadLuv]

I want to share an article I came across that I think most will relate and get something from.

The problem is, no matter how much you strive and how much you get, it’s never enough. It’s never sufficient to resolve that fundamental sense of lack and incompleteness that you feel at the core of your being.

A life spent seeking happiness and wholeness from a world that can never provide it is a life wasted.

The sorrows for such a soul are endless.

This compulsion to pursue objects in the hope of deriving happiness, freedom and wholeness from them is called samsara. The wheel of samsara is a never-ending cycle of lack, desire, attachment and suffering.

This is the basic suffering of humankind; a malady affecting virtually every human being on the planet.

Samsara is a case of false expectation; of misplaced seeking. Deluded by maya, the samsari seeks permanence in the world of the impermanent, fulfilment from the finite, and happiness from that which can only ever deliver it with an equal measure of sorrow.
Let’s explore how this happens.

https://www.unbrokenself.com/samsara/

[toomanytearss]

I’m so very sorry for the loss of your precious pup. I do understand.

Do you feel up to sharing about your pup?  I’d love to hear what breed and what their personality was. I know it helped me to talk about Buddy after he passed. To tell funny stories about his shenanigans and why he meant so much to me.

My heart goes out to you.

[xyzcf]

Madluv I am so sorry for your loss. These animals truly give us unconditional love, they know when we need some comfort and they endlessly give us love.

I rescued my last lab 1 1/2 years after BD and she passed 2 years ago. I miss her deeply. There was a connection between us that was deeper and more intense than my previous two labs. She never left my side. She stayed with me through some of the darkest moments of my life.

For the time being, I wish to travel and because I visit my daughter in Canada 4 times a year and often on holidays like Christmas...it was difficult to find someone to take care of my beauty...as she was also blind since age 5 and developed dementia the last year or so.

She will always be the special one...and perhaps I don't know how I would even find one that gave me so much and asked for so little.

My heart goes out to you in this latest loss. I am so sorry.

[Treasur]

I am very sorry for your loss too. Quite a few of us here remember losing pets who kept us upright during our darkest days. And each one is unique and irreplaceable. But it sounds as if you did the right and loving thing in the circumstances which I hope will be some small comfort to you.

[Nas]

I’m very sorry to hear about your dog, ML. It seems like they’re always gone too soon no matter how much time we get with them. I miss my dog still every day.

[Dragonfly33]

Madluv I am very sorry to hear about your dog. I know how painful it is as we lost our dogs as well years ago. Hugs to you Madluv.

[MadLuv]

Toomany, xy, tresur, nas, DG- thank you so much.

I had to put our lab down last year and now my sweet rescue pup. The sense of loss of love and companionship in this whole MLC situation was most definitely helped by my sweet sweet dogs and to lose them both so soon after my XH and for him to not even respond to their deaths is just so unbelievably sad. These dogs after he left laid by the door for months waiting for his return. When he did have to come by for things the first year and my daughter’s rehearsal party they were over the moon to see him. He took them home with him for a week almost 2 years ago and I think that was his final goodbye as he moved OW and daughters and dogs in at the end of that month and I think he knew that would be it.

Whoever XH is now I really dont know, but his character, morals and compassion do not resemble in any degree anyone I used to know, nor match mine any longer. Her death has changed me even further to understand the depth of change in this man in crisis who has become unrecognizable. We do not have anything in common any longer.

I hate that I lost my girl. I really needed her, but I will be ok and I do think this is going to propel me to make huge decisions on my life this year. I can totally focus on what I want to do and where I want to live. I really want to have a dog, but I dont think I can go through the heartbreak again. We shall see. Definitely no time soon. Just like the MLCer leaving. You have to grieve. Replacing quickly trying to fill a void never works. Love is not so easily replaced when it is deep and real.

Although I had No expectations that my XH would respond on her death. I am disappointed for him that he hasn’t yet grown at all. This is someone that I would have moved mountains for as would these sweet dogs, but he continues to show he is still selfish, distrustworthy, cold, and his apologies self serving and fall flat , so it is not surprising. The more he doesn’t evolve the stronger it makes me. Oddly enough. For me at least I hung on for so long and now when things like this come up that truly hurt my soul and he is not there for it and can’t even show a resemblance of a human being…. Well, it just makes it easier to move forward.

[Evermore]

I'm so sorry to read about your doggo ML. It changes our world when they are no longer in it. Very sorry for your loss and am thinking of you.

[Imgood]

Madluv, I’m so sorry for your loss. Your loss of two dogs in the last few years is very rough, on top of everything else. May you find some comfort in your memories. (((Hugs)))

[titleholder]

MadLuvv I'm so sorry for your loss, the hits keep on coming. But I admire your strength and wisdom *hug*

[PhoenixRising75]

So sorry to hear of your loss, ML. My ❤️ goes out to you.
It’s heartbreaking because it doesn’t make sense when you have a healthy pup just take a turn. We lost our little Max just as our state was shutting down for the pandemic. It started with a limp, and ended in full organ failure. It was 3 weeks of vet, hospital, emergency hospital. I was at his side the entire time, except when the shut downs didn’t allow, and doing everything the vets were telling me to do with medication, and nothing worked. Because it was the beginning of the pandemic shut downs, I spent hours outside in my car while he underwent testing and IVs, and so on. They s never did figure out what killed him. Putting him down was so incredibly hard. He was only 7. It shouldn’t have gone like that.
I need to get back to my school work. I’ve  set a goal to be 2 weeks ahead in all my classes, so this week has been crazy. I’ve pulled it off in 2 classes so far, and now need to finish this last one before Sunday, and my goal will be met. I earn extra credit for turning things in 2 weeks early, so I am padding out my grades. 🤣  It’s meant to help 20 year olds learn time management, but to a grown woman it’s candy. We managed households, so not just our schedules, but everyone else’s. I know you have a lot of experience with that. University wants to reward me bonus points for doing what I’ve done for 25 years now? Yes please.
Take care of yourself. I feel for you, and hope your grief passes when you need it to.

[MadLuv]

Thank you all for the loving thoughts on the loss of my sweet pup. So much loss in the last 3 years.

Little update- met with the lawyer today to have her send a letter to my XH to have notorized that I have remained as his beneficiary for all his accounts since switching jobs. i had mentioned it to him, but he did not reply as he normally doesn’t talk much or answer. Just lets me talk and talk. So, I felt I needed something legally to confirm. I had mentioned that I would probably have the lawyer send something, but I am sure he didn’t think I would.

The lawyer is also sending a request for disclosure of bonuses not disclosed in the divorce. I am very uneasy on all this, but seeing how he is spending money that legally was half mine and I haven’t contested anything I felt it was time. I was always afraid to upset him, but he has had no issues deceiving me in the last decade and I finally have decided since I am not standing for the marriage I have to at least make sure my kids and not her and her kids get what they rightfully should get.

It really does hurt my heart to have to go after him legally for something that he should just have taken care of and disclosed. I wanted to be friends, but as I told him months ago on our last conversation he has not been my friend for a very long time despite my efforts. I hope I am doing the right thing and don’t regret this .

[MadLuv]

Little update to keep my journal of my story

It has been 5 months of no contact by my choice. My XH took a job offer in July and moved to another state alone. His wife/ow remains with her adult daughter in our old condo we owned as a second home in another state just a little oher 2 hours away. They seem to commute on weekends and have Saturday to see each other. He has not had communication with our kids. It is 2 years this month since I have seen XH. Our son, daughter and grandson have not seen him in just short of 2 years.

I went to a recent game with son and BIL ( xh brother) he told me that their mom ( my kid’s grandmother) has some serious health issues. Congestive Heart Failure at 79. They had thought she was not going to live more than 2 months. He messaged XH ( his brother) and told him and that he better make it right with their mom before it was to late. This all happened right after BIL was here in July with his family and XH went on another yearly anniversary/ OW bday holiday with her and her adult kids. 

XH did call BIL. He said he talked a little but not much. BIL did ask him if there was anything new with work and he said no. He also asked him if he was still living in same place and he said, yea. Nothing new.  So, he does not want anyone to know for some reason that he got a new job and moved. His LinkedIn has stayed as his old job as well.

He called his mom and BIL said they came to some minor reconciliation of sorts, but that he thought that would be the last time their mom hears from him. I think he will text her on holidays as he started that last xmas. But…. Even though x-MIL is not dying tomorrow, it is very likely with her condition that she will not be around in 5 years time. Yet, he still made no mention or arrangements to come visit or introduce his wife. No one has met her and they would not know she existed or that they got married if I hadn’t told them . They don’t talk about her to him and he doesn’t talk about his new family to them. They have been married for 2 years this past July. BD was 3 years ago in one month.

Anyways…. I have always wondered if something happened to my x-MIL would he then just show up with OW/ WIFE and how much anxiety that would give me. Right now I still see her when I go there for games so that my son  and daughter can see her. I hosted his brother and family here this summer. Yet, I know if a service was held and he came I would be sitting away from the family I have known for 34 years and OW/WIFE would be with the family she never met. To say goodbye to someone she never met.

 Strangely, I am ok with that now. I just feel that I have shown up in life and so he can live with that awkward moment of showing up to say good bye when it is to late. He can be surrounded by family that he has discarded. It is comforting to think of these moments you know are coming and not be riddled with anxiety on them anymore. To just be proud that you made it through and you kept your connections. That there is nothing to be ashamed of.

[HeavenlyFocus]

Strangely, I am ok with that now. I just feel that I have shown up in life and so he can live with that awkward moment of showing up to say good bye when it is to late. He can be surrounded by family that he has discarded. It is comforting to think of these moments you know are coming and not be riddled with anxiety on them anymore. To just be proud that you made it through and you kept your connections. That there is nothing to be ashamed of.

ML, I totally understand how you feel about the decisions your XH has been made and  the relationships that he has destroyed.  I have seen the same type of actions and behavior from my XW and have just accepted that she is forever changed.  I can live knowing that I have done everything for my kids and have been kind to XW in spite of the hurt she has caused.   I go to sleep at peace every night.  It is enough for me.

[MadLuv]

Exactly HF!! Some how all the love and care that was discarded and disregarded by the MLCer does come back to us. It’s like once you can get a grip again that your own love comes back to you. Making you proud to be who you are once again.

[FaithWalker]

ML, I'm sorry to hear of your MIL's poor health.  Sending hugs.  Definitely a sign that xH is disordered when he makes no mention of his new wife, his change in living arrangements, or a new job.  MLCers for you.

[MadLuv]

Long rambling journal of my thought 3 years after BD2

3 years ago today my XH over text while traveling for work told me he wasn't coming home. After 29 1/2 years of marriage. When I look at where I was  when he left and the mountains of information that has been revealed since I can really hardly believe that I survived all this without ending up in a padded cell of one. This journey has been insanity to say the very least. I have journaled my truth from my roller coaster of feelings to my adamant feelings of survival that cycled  and have not held back.

So, what have I learned in 3 years??

 What I thought was happening or who I married was not who he was at all. He lied to me for a decade of my life. A decade that I will never get back. I feel humiliated by the betrayal not only to me, but our children and grandson, extended family, friends, coworkers…. The list goes on.  I thought I married the sweetest kindest man, ever!!! I married a weak and flawed man. I was not oblivious to this. I knew it always, but all this confirmed to me that he was much weaker than I could have imagined. It is still hard to accept that a person can walk away and just restart their life. That is insane to me still.

I feel I picked the wrong man in life. To have children with. To build a life with. I do not know who he is, nor would I if talking to someone that told me my own story believe that this person could have ever loved them deeply and cause this much destruction and deceit.  I still struggle with what all his issues may or may not be.

Definitely identity crisis, definitely emotional immaturity….but also we lost a child, he lost his father 3 mths later, high pressure job, diabetes, low testosterone, periones disease ( ED needing medical intervention) , turning 50. There are so many things that came about to throw him into turmoil.

So where is he now??
Lied to us all that he married for almost a year. Once that was revealed his relationship with his kids completely started to fall apart. Not due to them, but he pulled way back and has now mostly disappeared.  He hasn’t seen his kids or grandson in 2 years. He was fired from his job 6 mths after he married OW, but only 3 mths after she moved in with him ( they did not live together after they married)  He took a position in another state a few months ago and his wife/OW has not moved with him. She remains with one of her adult daughters back in our condo we bought in another state for his job and he is living alone in a completely different state. They commute on weekends.

He is repeating all the things he did with me as he fell apart. The difference is that it is now in warp speed. He is still spending tons of money. Throwing himself in work. I think getting back to a position of power is his most important goal. We do not talk. I cut off communication 6 mths ago and even then we were sporadic in our dealings. I still have so much financial agreements with him that even cutting off communication has been difficult as I do need to address things with him, but I find that I just don’t want to talk to him at all. So, I am using a lawyer right now. Which he has not responded to. He does this to force communication.

He still has no real contact with his mother and brothers. A text here and there. His mothers recent health scare did prompt a call, but xBIL said they didn’t expect it to go any further. Who knows??? I have been in close contact with his family and mostly his youngest brother, but I have decided to pull back on that as well. It just reminds me of the turmoil.

I still struggle at 61 to decide what I want and where I am going. I was laid off last February in a massive company restructuring and haven’t found a new position. Some how I am still ok, but also a little lost. My family is still fractured. My daughter and my relationship is so fragile and no matter what I do it is too much or not enough. My breathing seems to annoy her. Its confusing. My son and I are fine, but he quit his job after his Dad was fired ( same company) and he has not been able to find a job since and its been almost 2 years.

I think this holiday season I am going to skip it all. I feel I have put everyone before me my entire life and I feel a little used and unappreciated in many ways and I am going to start focusing on ME. Being okay with the loss of traditions and the “perfect” family. That is definitely gone. I have owned all my flaws to my XH, kids, extended family. Now, I just want to focus on me and where my final chapters in life bring me.

Move or not move?? I just can’t truly figure out exactly where I want to be. This is going to be a year of figuring that out. Stepping way outside my comfort zone. Getting out in the world. finding what I want and enjoy again as a single person. I think I will remain single. I do think this has been way to much deceit to ever trust someone again, but maybe??

I just can say that this has calmed me as a high strung person. I do miss my intact family beyond words. I miss cooking and traditions, but there is also freedom in letting go of that idea of perfection and the pressure of that life as well. I feel there is no lower that I can go and only a way up from here.

The most important thing after 3 years is that I know he is not living his best life and nor is OW/ wife. I think they use each other. I have no real insight into how there life is, but when he says he is miserable, feels in constant distress, no sense of home, etc. I believe him. I dont think he feels that 24/7 but I do think he realizes that he is not only not better off, but in a worse position than before. He remains stuck.

As he said in our last interaction, he is doing what he thinks he has to do. In the end that is a selfish place to be when you don’t see or talk to your own kids. I want no part of someone that can continue to hurt our kids and me for that matter. He has not had any real growth yet. I don’t know that he ever will. When BD1 happened in 2018 he said, I can’t talk about it. If I do I will not survive . That continues to be where he is. Run, Hide, Escape.

[KayDee]

Such a thoughtful and (I hope you know this) inspiring update. I resonate with so much of what you have written and you seem to look at things with very clear eyes now. I think you probably know a lot of the whys, but quite rightly don't understand them. If you could understand, then you would be more like your ex and not the resilient you. I often think when I read our stories on this forum, it's a bit like the hare and tortoise, not the race part, but forward movement. The LBS tortoise  but we do what it takes to heal. We get IC, we ask for help from friends and family, we take up mindful activities. We come here, to this forum. We don't flail around damaging people. And slowly we move forward in learning and personal growth.

Something that struck me:

I feel humiliated by the betrayal not only to me, but our children and grandson, extended family, friends, coworkers….

This is how you feel, but he actually humiliated himself.

Thank you for sharing this from further down the tortoise path 

[xyzcf]

Rebuilding my life, a life that is more difficult than the life I had when we were married is a work in progress. I do not have any family living near me. I have good friends, they care about me and I can rely on them if I need something…but I tend to be totally independent, trusting myself more than I do anyone else. My friends are all women, there is no male energy in my life.

I have contact with him but I prefer not to know anything about his life. So our conversations are mainly about the times we spend together as a family and superficial fluff. It is better for me not to give my thoughts to if he is happy or not, if he regrets or not, at this point, many more years than you, I really cannot make those assumptions. He has had way too much space in my head and my heart, I limit that greatly now.

The destruction of our family was terribly hard. Everyone in the family is hurt by this, including extended family and friends. For each of us, trying to figure out how to create a “ new” family, new traditions…and during this holiday season, it is even more difficult to feel the “spirit” and the loss of those traditions, those moments when we have that family unity, sometimes just taking for granted until it is lost…..of course it is a loss….and the emptiness is there.

All the decisions in life, that we made together, are now on our shoulders alone.
To move or not to move is a big decision, many pros and cons. Some people wants a new and fresh start, some find the familiar to be more comforting…..each time I contemplate moving home, my inner voice tells me to stay.  I find listening to that inner voice is my best compass.

As we so often say, it takes time. It took me a very very long time to get my life together…but I do not thinking it can be rushed. It will take as much time as it takes.

I like what KayDee wrote:

I often think when I read our stories on this forum, it's a bit like the hare and tortoise, not the race part, but forward movement. The LBS tortoise  but we do what it takes to heal. We get IC, we ask for help from friends and family, we take up mindful activities. We come here, to this forum. We don't flail around damaging people. And slowly we move forward in learning and personal growth.

[Reinventing]

He has had way too much space in my head and my heart, I limit that greatly now.

Yes, that limiting headspace helps us heal. Back in the day when I was working on retraining my brain--redirecting it from its habit of thinking about him--I would say out loud, "you aren't paying rent, so I'm not giving you room in my brain right now."

Of course I had to say that many times over since retraining the brain takes a lot of repetition. The brain is apparently a very stubborn organ.

[MadLuv]

Thank you Kaydee, XY,  reinventing 

Quick journal.

I have been trying to find where I want to move. I found this amazing place a kittle over 3 hours away. It just had the feel I was looking for, but still can’t seem to know what to do and my home of 35 years of belongings is overwhelming thinking about sorting and downsizing it all. Parting with it and the loss of hope and memories the house holds ( including the last place our 14 year old daughter lived before her unexpected death)  I have a friend/acquaintance that is also my realtor
And kept thinking I should call her.

Well, I booked a hair appointment and she called me. Last time I talked to her personally was 2 years ago. I she asked how I was doing and what all has happened since we last talked. I went through all that has happened and to hear myself tell the story and hear her reactions was something. It’s funny( in a not so hahah way) that she said. “ you know last time we talked you told me. I had to divorce him and secure what money I can. Save as much as I can of what we built, because he has lost his mind. He is going to blow through money, probably marry someone quickly and disappear” she said, “you know him. You were spot on. Even in his confused state you still knew him” 

Anyways, she I shared the house I was looking at. We made plans for her to come to my house and see about putting it up for sale and also I told her what I want and am looking for and if that is closer to where I am that would be amazing. She is going to start looking for me. She said, “ we are going to get you your freah start for 2024!”

So, we shall see where this leads. I love my house and I dont feel trapped in the memories, but I do feel moving will help me feel like I am moving forward from what was to what is.

[MadLuv]

It has been a couple months and felt a need to journal a bit. Next month it will be 3 years since his divorce and right now I am 3 years  2 months since BD2. I have been NC with XH since last May, so 8 mths. He got a job promotion in August and moved to a new state without OWife, but he recently bought a very very nice 2700sq ft house. He has not sold the condo that we had and they had been living in another state.

 I have been pretty detached, but still feel a little loss on direction in my life and I have to say it is hard to know that with all the destruction he is able to move up in a new company and  have multiple Homes and cars. Seems like he is  not living any consequences for the pain he has caused. His SD26 is pregnant with a son due in April and so he will be a new grandfather even thou he is not one anymore to his own. He bought a 4 bedroom house. Enough for each SD to have a bedroom when visiting , but still has no relationship with his own.

I sometimes feel like I am in a lifetime movie that is ridiculous and surreal. I have a friend from  the age of 14 ( we are now 61) that lost her husband to death. She just sold her house and is in a new relationship and she contacted me as she was struggling on if she was in the right relationship and was it fair to him because she would never love him as much as her husband of 40 plus years.

She contacted me because she said, you are the only one that would understand because you lost your H. Not to death, but in some ways worse. She said we are forced to change direction and let go of a past in such a shocking way and it doesnt feel right moving forward with your past unresolved. I said, your husband left but not by choice and thats unfair, but he left and loved and you have that. Mine left and has made a choice to harm and disrespect his life and family and it is not something my worse enemy would do. Yet, we both have to accept the loss and find a way to move forward as they are both gone.

My XH told me at a little over a year ago “ I’m the worst person I know”  I told him at the time that he had made some bad choices, but wasnt a bad person , but I have to say MLC or not he is the worst person I know now. I don’t know anyone that I have ever associated with that would do the things he has done to me .Identity crisis or not. In the end it is just extremely painful to know someone you loved for decades could harm you for so long.

But… I have lost a daughter to cancer, a daughter and grandson as she has been not allowing communication since she detached from her father. So it is just my son and I. So, much loss and  the only thing I can say is that I continue on. I know I cant control it, but the LBS is just such a loving and compassionate person and  it continues to be hard to understand why we were dealt these cards.

Probably a lot of rambling, but it has been a slight dip in the road . It continues to be hard to pick a direction to travel when you cant fully let go of a life you thought you were going to live and I do think at  61 it plays a huge factor on feeling like life is passing you buy and you dont have time to waste, but you cant rush or ignore your healing .  For me the hardest part is that he has done so much damage to our kids and family. I think that if we were all in tact his absence really would be ok, but my D32 has not handled any of this well and we all continue to be the fall guy for her pain and I am mad that he left me with his damage.

What I will say is 99% of the time I stay positive and have fun and just try not to look back, but there are still these moments that sting and I think in some way they may always come back to bite us here and there to remind us that this happened and we are human because it hurt.

[xyzcf]

Glad to hear your update MadLuv.

I am so so sorry that your daughter has distanced herself from you. I hope she soon comes to realize what a good mother she has.

It is hard for our kids, no matter how old they are. This destroys a part of them as well.

I have not met one man in 14 years who I have been attracted to or found interesting...lol...I think it just wouldn't work for me and so they do not appear, although I have some male friends..I .have never gone on a dating app as I have heard too many horror stories and really cannot imagine meeting someone that way.....it is lonely at times and most of my friends are married...but I have a good life...quite busy actually. I am also 69 years old...and really had 35 years of a complete and loving marriage so it would be hard to top that.

And, I do have a "relationship" with my husband We do things as a family so that is precious to me and we see one another at times, get a text from him once a week and once again, very grateful for not all situations turn out this way. Quite honestly, I have never stopped loving him.

May this New year bring you peace and clarity...an time to let go of the concerns and issues that clutter your mind and heart.

[MadLuv]

Thank you XYZCF- You really are so fortunate to have that relationship and I am sure sometimes that is also a painful reminder of what is lost since you still love him so. I would have loved that and I tried to be his friend, but  who he is married to has made that impossible.  I did tell him if he every left her then I could be his friend. I think your XH still shows love and respect to you and that is not a small thing. I think mine financially did right by me but emotionally has not dont right by his family who has already had a devastating loss.  That makes it hard. With that said, the house purchase was hard to see, even though I knew it had to come. So, it gave a dip to my head. Most of the time I am fine alone and dance and sing in the car. II have had men approach me and I can see where I may at one point be open, but then when I think long term I am also like you. I made a choice and a vow and not sure I can do that with anyone else.

[xyzcf]

I would not have this relationship with him if there was any hint of an OW, certainly not if he married someone else. Each person is different but that would hurt way too much.

There are all kinds of relationships that posters write about and I think that is important for newer members to see that there is not one set way to proceed. Most of all, to follow what is right for you, your situation and your family.

We actually get along quite well and I am much more relaxed about being with him.

I have to say it is hard to know that with all the destruction he is able to move up in a new company and  have multiple Homes and cars. Seems like he is  not living any consequences for the pain he has caused.

Sometimes the message on HS is that what they have done will catch up to them and they will "pay" for what they have done. But that is not always the case. My husband continued to be very very successful...this did not have the impact on his career or finances that it did on mine.

But, I still have a comfortable life, living in my home with the birds, the rabbits, the squirrels and the occasional coyote. Aging is giving me some times of sitting up and doing things now, because as you said, there are less years left than more.

Your positive attitude will and has always got your through. I sometimes get "down", especially the loneliness...it's much better now that I can resume the activities I love which I could not do during COVID.

One day at a time...we really do not know what the future holds.

[MadLuv]

I should correct. He did have consequences. He was fired from his job of 35 years and was unemployed for 9mths, but since  a year ago he has bounced back with his new job and financially. I do think that he probably is throwing everything into rebuilding his new career as they do need that for their ego. I felt sorry for him for so long, but I don’t anymore. He seems to be doing just fine, except the company he keeps.  I don’t see much of what is happening with him Not do I ask, so I think this little knowledge coming was just a little jolt, but nothing sticks anymore.

[Dragonfly33]

Dear madluv, it's nice to hear from you.

I have been pretty detached, but still feel a little loss on direction in my life and I have to say it is hard to know that with all the destruction he is able to move up in a new company and  have multiple Homes and cars. Seems like he is  not living any consequences for the pain he has caused. .

It's funny you mentioned feeling being lost in life. This was exactly what I discussed for many sessions with my therapist. This is exactly how I feel even 4 years after BD and a year after divorce. I told my therapist in a number of occassions that I felt lost. I don't have any direction in life and I just felt like being stagnant.She said to me this is so normal because it's a big thing what we went through. I didn't just mourn the loss of my H and my marriage but I was also working on my childhood traumas. But she said to me,this is temporary. We will find our purpose and direction in life again Madluv. Maybe not what we imagined and wanted it to be but something better. Also these consequences for MLCers, I talked about this a number of times with my sisters and my mom. I told them how come he seemed enjoying his life, the person who did all these bad things to me. And I am the only one suffering. But, this is what we see from the outside. We don't know if they are really indeed happy now. I always believe in the saying, what you throw out there in the world will always find a way to come back to you. I'm not wishing that they should suffer but everything we do good or bad always has a consequence.

Like you I totally cut contact with my xh. A couple of times I contacted him last year but it's because of administrative stuff. I don't engage myself in long text exchange anymore. I am done with that even if he tells me he's not feeling well or he's sick. I just wished him well. Of course my case is different from yours as we don't have kids. The no contact has helped me a lot in detaching from that toxic cycle with my xh. Of course at times, I wish he would come home. At times I miss him a lot but I miss the person I married not the person at BD. I keep reminding myself that and usually it happens when I am overwhelmed by things in life or be insecure in life. He used to be my rock but now I only have myself. That is hard to accept but we have to force ourselves to accept that in the end we only have ourselves to rely on.

I'm sorry about your relationship with your daughter. She maybe affected by what your xh did but don't forget that she is also an adult and not a child anymore. She chose not to communicate with you and that is on her. My father also abandoned us at an early age. We lived with our aunts, and grandmas (both sides). It was a very unstable childhood. But despite that, we chose to stick with our mother, even though she herself at some point abandoned us to get my father back. We saw that she worked hard to raise us as a single parent. We appreciate that. All I want to say is that your daughter's choice of not communicating with you is not your exh's fault.

I hope you will have good days again. And I want to tell you, you are not alone in having those bad moments. I have them too and Im inclined on blaming my xh which is actually not helping but like you said we are humans and we are still hurting. I think the hurt will not totally go away but it may lessen.

[KayDee]

Well, he could also be throwing himself into work as an avoidance tactic?  It's so hard to know, isn't it. what they are really thinking and feeling, when we just get snap shots. Lots of extremely unhappy people have big houses and nice cars  Your conscience is clear Madluv and that's worth more IMO.

I really responded to the exchange you had with your best friend about loss. I read the Salt Path recently - short synopsis - a couple become homeless just as they find out the husband has an incurable illness. And, despite myself (because their hardship is so great) I kept thinking - but you have each other and you love for each other. I really had to have a word with myself  This couple, they went on both a real and emotional journey and somehow came through it enriched. I hope I can do the same. Life throws us hardships of all shapes and sizes I suppose. If you can read the Guardian Newspaper where you are, they do a great section called A New Start After 60 https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/series/a-new-start-after-60 - when the global news drags me down, I read this. Very uplifting - bet there's an LBS in the roster - think I noted one.

[Nas]

I read the Salt Path recently - short synopsis - a couple become homeless just as they find out the husband has an incurable illness. And, despite myself (because their hardship is so great) I kept thinking - but you have each other and you love for each other. I really had to have a word with myself 

I couldn't not respond to this, as someone who became homeless just as I found out my cancer had progressed, I can say maybe your gut reaction thoughts are very understandable. Everything is easier when you have someone to support you, to acknowledge you, to talk things through with you, to find solutions with you - EVERYTHING. It doesn't change circumstances but it changes emotional state, which changes how we respond to circumstances. We CAN do it ourselves, and we do, but it is harder. So I would take nothing away from a couple who persevered through extraordinarily difficult circumstances - their strength and achievement is not diminished by your true acknowledgment that it would be different and harder to get through it all alone.

[Evermore]

Thank you for pointing us in the direction of the Guardian articles KD! I had a quick skim through them and was chuckling to myself at my automatic categorising as I did (‘well that one screams MLC’, ‘good on them, likely LBS’). I thought it worth posting the link to this story here. 70 at BD after 46 years of marriage and now (well, in article) 102 and living a full life. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/jun/05/a-new-start-after-60-i-was-devastated-by-divorce-at-70-but-at-102-i-know-the-secrets-of-a-well-lived-life?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[MadLuv]

Kaydee- thank you. I am very familiar with the guardian and read it often. Thank you for sharing. I haven’t been on there for a while. I also think his work and purchases and need to be successful and get back to where is was is for his ego and also escape as you said. I don’t think he is happy, but ai don’t know that he is sad anymore either. I think he is just living.

 I also came across an article from the Uk that was so relatable on why we struggle after a break up.

https://www.lifesrosie.co.uk/5-ways-your-brain-is-sabotaging-your-heartbreak-recovery-and-how-to-speed-up-the-process-of-moving-on/

DF- yes!! Exactly!! I also told my therapist ( before I was laid off and wuit going) that I just cant find a direction. Where  can I go and still feel safe and will I regret it?

I was smart at the break up and not sure how, but I think I just knew he would be back so for a bit I could kick into my independent self. I asked for the house and all the equity. I am sure he just started a 30 year mortgage at 57 and my house will be paid off in 6 years after my refinance of 10 years. Plus if I sold now I could buy a house outright and have several 100 thousand in the bank and his weekly alimony still. Which I get for another 11 years.  The alimony covers all my monthly bills and thank goodness since I was laid off.

So, he is still taking care of me and he does. I hate it in some ways because Im so independent, but I gave up my career for him, so I dont feel bad. Maybe this is his consequence, but he agreed to it all.

On my daughter. It is definitely not my XH fault but it is what for her instigated her behavior, but she is an adult and I have been a very good mother and grandmother and it is unforgivable to be shut out. There are some other reasons but they are all internal with her and I just cant keep fighting to have her in my life. It feels abusive. So, I have just backed off. I had to drop Xmas gifts off as she said it wasn’t a good time for a visit. He bday is coming and  their will be no gift.

So, today seems like a debbie downer update, but really I have been so good. I just think we have dips and are triggered still and it’s understandable after over 30 years with someone and they just disappear.

[MadLuv]

I also wanted to share for those that wonder if any of it was real. I have come to that thought many times in the last year. Well, I was reminded of a story my XH told me and it wiped all that away. He told me towards the end of our relationship which is odd in itself, but a year before he asked me out he came to the area I was working. I was managing the mens department in a retail department store. He said, I asked you to help me pick out a sweater. I didn’t need a sweater. I just wanted to talk to you, so I kept turning down ones you picked because I wanted to extend the time. That was a year before he asked me out. When he did ask me out he did it on the escalator of the store. I said no several times and finally agreed.

Anyways… he really worked to go out with me and date me. I guess in the end if you can tap into  one of those sweet moments you can still appreciate them and also validate that it was real.

[WHY]

It was more than real for me.  Once I stopped blaming myself and realized that it was her mental breakdown, I remembered the 20 years we had together.  It was VERY real. 

This thing is crazy.  Understand MLC so deeply by now but it still seems surreal some days. 

Someone mentioned death would be easier.  At least the LBS mind understands that.  This is like your MLCer dying overnight but their ghost torturing you everyday.  When does it stop?

[MadLuv]

Why- it is the most crazy and surreal thing ever to live through, but some how we do. Time and our own personal work gets us there, but for the rational mind it can even years down the road give you pause to once again say to yourself WTF happened? My mistake this week was getting information that made me think for a minute that it was me not him. That’s ridiculous. It’s still him. A new house does not make a healthy man, but we can still have these moments that we question.

 For me it just always comes down to he is not a healthy adult. A healthy adult does not do this to anyone they once loved. So, for me and my XH recent large house purchase and the seemingly from the outside look of success its a small gut punch at first and then you realize hmmmm…. Did he magically become ok? Can his obviously damaged new OWife really have been the magic answer? No!!! Sharp no!!! It’s a facade. An escape of dealing with themselves. But…again for us relatively normal humans it can throw us around the spinning wheel of questioning our own worth and accountability in the why all this happened.

For me I think the fact my XH is looking like he is BACK from the ashes of destruction he created really threw me for a loop for a hot second, because frankly if he is so damaged and depressed as he has told me, then why is he seemingly doing so well? I don’t think he is, honestly. I think he wants to be doing well. If  he can just get back his status at work, drive a fancy car, buy that huge house than he will be happy. He just needs the right spouse. No, there is no way they leave a family they created with a devoted spouse ( even with our own flaws as we all have them) and magically start over. It’s not normal.

 I can only speak for my XH and OWife but she is so over the top ridiculous in her actions, materialism, maturity and even looks that  it has been the hardest thing to grasp. Why? That’s what you are throwing away your life for? Was that the type of person you wanted? Then why me ever?  It truly does prove that they always affair down. Always, because they can’t be with someone that makes them feel less than and not because we do, but because thats how they view themselves. Thats why we have no control in the manner someone handles their internal issues. It is a one man job.

[FaithWalker]

ML, your MLCer might have a new house and what looks like a shiny new life, but he also has to live with the pile of poo that he created when he did what he did.  I don't know that anyone could truly rest easy with that stuff on their conscience. 

I'm sorry that things are tough between you and your D right now.  I will be praying for her heart to soften.

He lit a match to his old life thinking the whole thing needed to burn, when honestly there was just one tiny light burnt out that needed changing.  Who does that?  MLCers, that's who.

[MadLuv]

Thank you FW. You are so right!! I hope my daughter also can come to a placesof calm and realization. Funny you said that they cant possibly rest easy. My therapist told me that as well. She said, when they put their head on that pillow they can’t run and avoid and they certainly dont rest.

I will say for all the newbies that even with these little moments they are just moments. My life is pretty calm and going NC has also given me more time to heal and view things myself more clearly. I feel pretty fortunate in the the circumstances that I am in.  I have survived cancer, death of both parents, my youngest daughter's death, my husband leaving, loss of my job and my  oldest daughter’s disconnection.  Yet, I am not angry. I’m not bitter. I have grown to appreciate what I still have vs what I have lost. 

Time really does  make things better. Mostly because we acclimate to our new life and circumstances and not as much  due to healing, because that still takes so much time due to trauma. I’m just so grateful not to have anxiety anymore. To sleep well, to laugh, sing and enjoy fun moments.  When you get there… even with small moments that can be a trigger. Well, those pass more quickly and you realize that no matter what life does go on and you will be ok. I’m just so thankful, because we have all been at the beginning when it seems like we wont survive. We do !!!

[toomanytearss]

ML there was something a dear friend of mine used to tell me quite often when I went down the road of "what the heck happened, maybe it was me, if it was me why is he still so miserable, he should be so happy now that he is living with his ap and has painted me to be a horrible person"

My dear friend would look at me and smile and say "Wherever he goes there he is."  LOL.  Meaning that nothing ever really changed for him or got better because wherever he goes there he is.  He's just going around with the same old baggage and hanging it in a different closet.  But he doesn't realize that if he took a moment and thought it through the common denominator in all his troubles is himself.  Hence the saying, wherever he goes there he is. 

So he hung his baggage in his fancy new house.  I'm just sure he figured a fancy new house will make it all better.  But wherever he goes there he is. 

I get to see the after effects of all this with my x.  I promise you the "happy life" that is portrayed is most likely far from accurate. 

[MadLuv]

Toomany- Oh, I so agree. I do have a MLCer that is a martyr and has said he is the issue, but he also blames me when  convenient for him.  I would hope that not seeing his own children or grandson who he was so close to is a problem for him.

What’s crazy is that he moved into his home almost 2 months ago and she did not move with him. She is still back in the condo we had with her younger D22. For a man in escape he picked someone that has been living her adult life alone in an apartment, so she is used to not living with a partner. He needs someone, but also his space. They have lived apart more than together in their 2 1/2 marriage. It’s a very weird relationship. I guess that also should not be suprising. How he is affording all his expenses is beyond me. She I think just want jewels, cars, multiple homes, clothes… she could care less about him.  That’s hard when you know how much he has lost with his kids and grandson.

[MadLuv]

Back for a little journalling after a couple months.  Divorced 3 years last month and 3 yr 3 mths since BD2.  What’s new? Well, XH continues to send weekly alimony with no issues. He still has not completed the warranty deed on the house that I refinanced immediately after divorce. He refuses to respond to any communication on our divorce agreements since I told him he was no longer my friend. He did not respond to a legal demand letter last Oct.  Last month I filed a small claims court filing against him and he has refused to sign for or pick up the certified letter.  One of the things I filed against he then just started sending me money for, but refuses to communicate.

Last week was the anniversary of our daughters death and he sent the alimony on her day. What is odd  is that it was 3 days before it was due. Never has he done that.  He still is not living with OWife. He moved in August.  It’s just the weirdest thing ever!!  They live 2 1/2 hours away from each other. I have not had any communication on the phone for almost a year.  He has not seen his kids or grandson in over 2 years. When I do have to communicate on the finances we agreed on in the divorce I know that I will not get a response and I am unaffected. He punishes me when I put up boundaries.  That no longer hurts me.

I will say that I am in complete acceptance of the situation and for me I just can never unsee or unknow what I know and I feel  fortunate to not be in the mess that I was in with him. I don't know if I ever knew him. I  don't know that he ever knew himself.  I still think the hardest part now looking back is that I hate that the man I thought he was doesn't nor will ever exist again and he used to be my favorite person. It truly is a death of a person, but they still exist. It’s the craziest thing EVER, but once you accept and see that it is easier to move on and I am.

[Evermore]

It sure is the craziest thing! Good update ML. Glad you are doing so well.

[titleholder]

I still think the hardest part now looking back is that I hate that the man I thought he was doesn't nor will ever exist again and he used to be my favorite person. It truly is a death of a person, but they still exist. It’s the craziest thing EVER, but once you accept and see that it is easier to move on and I am.

Nail on the head with this one! I relate to this so strongly. You sound good MadLuv! And it's exactly as you say, be glad you're not in his chaos anymore. You miss the person he once was (or tried to be) that person doesn't exist anymore and that is incredibly sad.

Love! TH

[HeavenlyFocus]

Hi ML,

Needed to hear that message from you today.  Glad that you are doing great and very sad that the person we loved is gone.  I am getting their towards acceptance but still baffled at all that has happened.   

HF

[MadLuv]

Ever, Title, HF- thank you so much.

Things have taken a really bad turn. My XH hired an atty and denied all my allegations. It was a general denial and without merit, so I sent a offer of settlement and his attorney called today and let me tell you. He came at me like a bulldog and then acted like it was me. I stayed calm and low key, but he yelled at me and then said if he was having these kind of problems with me he can’t imagine what my XH and my conversations were like . I stated, I haven’t done anything but ask a question and he said I can hear your breathing  with attitude and you keep interrupting me. I wasn’t. It was so aggressive.  I was so unbelievably triggered as I was not doing anything. I rushed over and started a recorder , but by that time I had not fed into it so he calmed quite a bit.

He told me I did a hatchet job on my XH on the divorce……. So much and then would say, not that I am saying that you did anything wrong. It was frankly horrific. Anyways, trying to get these things resolved still from The divorce that my XH didn't handle, yet I look like a problem.  For asking after 3 years he get things done???

In the end I think after this that I do not see my XH ever coming out of this .This was all so unnecessary and he caused himself legal fees not needed. I told his attorney that I have always tried to stay on good terms and this is all not necessary, but hopefully we can complete these things. I will say I told him he had multiple affairs for over a decade, he hid money and bonuses he did not disclose in the divorce and that he hadn’t seen his kids ans grandson in over 2.5 years.  No way was I exiting that conversation with that attorney thinking  my XH was a saint. His attorneys response. He may have been a horrible husband, but I have been in this business long enough to know that you must not have a halo of perfection over your head either. 

After everything else I think my XH subjecting me to that lawyer might have been one of the top 5 daggers I have had. I can’t believe that I had and continue to have endure abuse when I am Just trying to get things done 3 years later!! This  has messed with my mind which was so healed and ready to take on the world, but I know I will bounce back, but it hurts none the less.

[JohnnyBravo]

Wow, so sorry to hear about that, MadLuv. What a jerk. I'm really glad to hear you stayed calm and held your ground. And even if it WAS a hatchet job divorce, your XH signed off on it!

Hugs,

JB

[Reinventing]

MadLuv,

Wow. I am sorry that happened. Is his attorney allowed to talk to you directly? Is that a breach of ethics?

Yes, you will bounce back, but you shouldn't have had to go through that in the first place. That is very disturbing.

[Treasur]

Well, I think you need a lawyer so ‘his lawyer can talk to your lawyer’. Imho you should ask your lawyer to get all of this unfinished business resolved in one fell sweep, including alimony, so there is no more drip drip dependent on your xh’s ’goodwill’. And I’d talk to your lawyer about filing some kind of formal complaint about the fact - and the way - that lawyer spoke to you with his firm or Bar Assiciation. Bc that’s not appropriate, professional or reasonable.

To be fair to your xh….with gritted teeth bc he’s behaving like a (insert rude word of choice)….he hired this lawyer but the lawyer alone is responsible for calling you directly and the way he spoke to you. Try to document the salient bits while it is fresh in your mind. You may also wish to get your lawyer to write to your xh directly cc ing the lawyer that his behaviour was so egregious and threatening that you will now only communicate via your own lawyer.

I am sorry that you were abused like this. I’m sure your head knows, but his lawyer was just trying to batter and bully you. What he said was BS. And legally irrelevant. Your personality, communication style and the nature of your previous marriage is none of his business and something he knows nothing about at all. It is textbook victim blaming bc your xh now has buyer’s remorse over the agreement he signed and his lawyer thinks he can bully you into a better deal for his client. That’s it. That’s all it is. Horrific behaviour by the lawyer, but it truly says nothing about you at all. Or your marriage unless this lawyer was secretly hidden as a mini-version in his pocket for decades of conversations 

Tbh it’ not very different from saying a rape victim deserved it bc she was wearing a short skirt, is it? Are you perfect? No…don’t remember that being in the vows lol. But it’s a false equivalence to say that years of affairs, financial dishonesty and abandoning his children lines up with any failing on your part as a wife….its just BS. Like all those MLC ‘reasons’, right? The dog was too fat, or you bought bagged salad .,…just BS. Please please don’t let this kind of manipulative bullying creep into your head in any way, not a jot.

But imho you now need a rock hard boundary and a decent lawyer to feel outraged and act as a terrier on your behalf.

Still I am very very sorry that your xh has kicked off this state of affairs….it is always rather sad and hurtful when someone we loved and trusted dives even lower than we imagined in their actions. Even a bit of a shock tbh….a trauma ripple.

What I was musing on reading your post is that your xh is following the mLC textbook wrt to getting worse and a bit more unhinged a few years on. You filed quickly, more quickly than most of us were wise enough to do, but the overall timescale post BD seems to be still following the MLC playbook regardless, doesn’t it? About 3 years?

Your xh got the magic happy fix he wanted but is self evidently still full of rage and self pity and entitlement and blaming you. He has doubtless told his new lawyer that you are worse than Genghis Khan and still ruining his life. How textbook is that? And I hope that too serves as a reminder that NONE of this is about you…it’s just an angry self pitying entitled typical MLC man child having a tantrum and trying to get his own way by throwing spaghetti at the wall. That’s all it is.

Funny (maybe ha ha funny, probably not right now) how frequently years on that magic happy doesn’t seem to create much happiness…… ….but a reminder still that it was never about you and he took himself and his baggage with him right along into that new life. Blaming you for your ‘hatchet job’ is a textbook way of avoiding having to take ownership of the mess he has made of his own life directly bc of his own choices. If one is feeling kind, it’s a bit of a Greek tragedy really. If one is feeling less kind - and right now imho you should lol - it’s more like someone trying to walk in your nice clean house with dogs$it on their shoes and an opportunity to Just Say No.

[KayDee]

No way was I exiting that conversation with that attorney thinking  my XH was a saint. His attorneys response. He may have been a horrible husband, but I have been in this business long enough to know that you must not have a halo of perfection over your head either. 

This sound so personal MD - like this guy has got his own axe to grind with someone not you. Possibly laced with misogyny. If we could hear his breathing now, I reckon we'd conclude 'projected rage' (I mean really!  He can read people's breathing down the phone  - he should have a stage show). Obviously it is completely and utterly unprofessional. He bullied you and made deeply personal comments. His job is to resolve the legal issue. Period. I can imagine this is triggering, but yes, you will bounce back.

[Treasur]

There must be some MLC lawyers out there too…..and birds of a feather etc etc….

[Reinventing]

MadLuv, I can't remember what country you live in, but an attorney is not allowed to speak directly to a client of another attorney. As in that is illegal. Are you in the US?

I’m sure your head knows, but his lawyer was just trying to batter and bully you. What he said was BS. And legally irrelevant.

Yes, well put. His goal was to elicit an emotional response from you. A bully through and through.

[forthetrees]

I´m sorry you were subjected to the bullying. My two cents: You pulled the lever of legal action to get him to comply with prior legal agreements and this is his reaction. He is too cowardly to confront the unsettled issues on his own (conflict avoidance) and therefore got a lawyer to be the bully. Perhaps ow/wife found him this particularly aggressive one as poor ex needed someone on his side to stand up to you. I think it shows that your ex is still in victim mode, still running from accountability and still unwilling to fulfill responsibilities. He effed you over in many ways but also signed a divorce agreement that seemingly runs in your favor. Too bad for him. He had the option of legal advice and he was not declared mentally incompetent. As they say, he made his bed and now he has to lie in it.

Can you continue forward with the small claims suit without communication with this lawyer? If a court date is set and he doesn´t show up but you do and you win, then what?

I get how these negative interactions replay in your mind and continue to be hurtful. Instead of allowing it to ruminate, how about changing to the perspective that you got under his skin and he is finally taking some action?

[MadLuv]

JB, Reinventing, Treasur, Kaydee-
Thank you so much. I needed to hear all those words and assurances. I am just sick that this keeps getting worse and it is very apparent when in May 2023 ( last time we spoke) that when I found out how long his flirting, affairs or indiscretion's had been going on and I told him that we could no longer be friends that this is how he has decided to pay me back as control. Whether that is the dismissal he wanted to fully run or it is just his covert narcissist avoidance approach.

This is small claims and not an enforcement of the decree, but trying to get him to react and resolve with it not costing me much money to file and when I sent the settlement offer behind the scenes of the court  ( trying to enforcement the decree ) the lawyer or him are allowed to contact me. However, the lawyer constantly stated things in the decree were not enforceable and then they were. It was clear he tried to intimidate me. He stated that he had never seen such a one sided divorce and Texas law would not have allowed that he may have been the worst husband ever he doesn’t know that and it doesn’t matter in Texas court.  An ax murderer would not been subjected to such a hatchet job.

Clearly, he did not hire and attorney and he signed the divorce. I don’t think someone how voluntarily signed an agreement should then be the victim and if his lawyer thinks he is ( which clearly he said it was obvious he had no legal representation) who’s fault it it? I said, he could have hired an attorney and he didn’t have to sign it. His lawyer said you’re right. So, in Texas even after 30 years I probably would not have got much and I am in fear this lawyer has told him that they can take me back to court and lower the payments and I think my XH is saying he doesn’t want to do that, but I can’t be sure.

If they take me back to court with his lowered salary I would get a considerable reduction and for leas years for sure. Also, his lawyer’s resolution to put my XH on the NFL account to pay direct and communicate direct does not resolve communication on game tickets and chiefs don't allow more than one person on the account. So, I really just wanted to not have to talk to him going further and hoping that he could advise and follow through with email response when needed.
This is not how I handle my relationships in life and I hate that I am tied this and that is of my doing. I am tempted to again offer that he not be on the account for the Chiefs and I release him from that obligation as I have before and he declined.

To me that would most easily resolve our communications issues going forward.  I told the attorney that  he may not see it by the decree but I was just protecting some of what we built and that I had only had love for my XH for the 30 years we had together and I don't nor never wanted this divorce or for this to happen and it was and is my greatest fear. The lawyer did state that he only knew me for an hour, but he believed me. ( he did turn around his attitude in the end) I will say also at one point in the conversation he said you appear to be an intelligent woman and then said, well, let me take that back. I don’t know that. It just seemed their were some things thrown in that were extremely not necessary and that then got me talking emotionally or bringing emotions on why to then have him say , ok, back to the point. I felt baited by his emotions jabs and then basically meant to feel I needed to defend my reasoning.

 It was just a horrible conversation with a professional until the end, but again it is clear his client let this divorce happen, signed it and then has been avoiding communication. Period. Fact. Yet, I am the problem. Disheartening. I am going to dismiss the case without prejudice which allows me to retile if they don't follow through, but shows that I am again trying to work with them.

[Treasur]

I am going to dismiss the case without prejudice which allows me to retile if they don't follow through,…..

Why?
Surely they/he have shown you their version of follow through already?

….,but shows that I am again trying to work with them.

And why do you need to show them that? Is it not the other way round after that call and your xh’s responses so far?

I would encourage you to do nothing at all for a week.
And then to talk to a lawyer about how to manage any risk if your xh tries to overturn the divorce agreement. And how to get the unfinished business finished.

Please take a moment to breathe and think and seek advice before reacting. Don’t be the one that blinks first.

[MadLuv]

The claim was to pay the chiefs and after I filed he started to pay and so it did resolve that. I charged him also for legal fees for a letter that would have to be e forced through family law not small claims.  He is handling the special warranty deed and that was a huge concern.

I have no idea if they will attempt to lower the payments, but his lawyer definitely thinks that he was wronged and by texas court and the loss of his job and lower income texas would most likely reduce and I dont want to poke that bear.

I am also thinking of offering him an “out” on the Chiefs tickets would be more than a 20% deduction yearly in what he pays me. I believe that will help keep them out of family court, but more importantly it will resolve my need for any communication with him. I truly just want to move on with my life and I wish he wasn’t still in a victim blame mode, but I am for sure that the lawyer has now given him more validation on why he should hate me.  I dont love my XH nor do I need him either, but more importantly allowing him to find ways to hurt me and then turn it on me and hide behind others is just not what I want to subject myself to .

I recorded the call with the lawyer. I have what he agreed to. It is a one state consent. So, if he doesn’t follow through then I will handle it, but I was able to refinance the house by showing my divorce decree and I bet I can sell it also that way. 

MyXH is not anyone I know anymore. He has no morals or empathy or integrity any longer.  I dont want to be a bitter person that cant forgive or allow those who don't understand the deep pain involved in a discard like this to blame me. It’s inhumane what he did and it took me so long to get to a place where I knew I would be ok. He isn’t taking that from me again.

One thing that finally sunk in for me is that who my XH is with is using him for money and he is using her for validation which only comes from materialism. She doesn’t care about him and he doesn’t really care about her, truly. They are surface level  people that  have no regard for others. I think they are each others karma

And, what is it about this 3 year mark!! Geezzz

[MadLuv]

My two cents: You pulled the lever of legal action to get him to comply with prior legal agreements and this is his reaction. He is too cowardly to confront the unsettled issues on his own (conflict avoidance) and therefore got a lawyer to be the bully. Perhaps ow/wife found him this particularly aggressive one as poor ex needed someone on his side to stand up to you. I think it shows that your ex is still in victim mode, still running from accountability and still unwilling to fulfill responsibilities. He effed you over in many ways but also signed a divorce agreement that seemingly runs in your favor. Too bad for him. He had the option of legal advice and he was not declared mentally incompetent. As they say, he made his bed and now he has to lie in it

Forthrtrees- I completely agree. OWife may have had a family member divorce in town and asked them about a lawyer. Normally I would say that he wouldn’t share this with her, but honestly I think he is now. I think he is in victim mode with her also. That’s how he manipulates. They still are not living together and she is driving  a Mercedes he bought and he doesn't insure her. He only insures himself on it, so that means she  has to have her own insurance. Paying twice. Smart!

I so will say that I found in Texas contractual divorce agreements can be lessoned with change of salary, but not if bills have increased due to a new marriage and personal purchases as he had the contract with me first. That was some what comforting.

In the end he continues to be someone else and the biggest determining  factor that no change is occurring is the disconnect from His own kids. His OWife’s oldest daughter is due with her baby next week ( the one that did drugs) its a boy and his grandson he left behind is a boy. I wonder if that will affect him in any way.

[MadLuv]

And……..he didn’t pay alimony.  He most likely will, but this is how he communicates to me. Either by non response or delayed alimony. It is his communication. It’s just the most juvenile thing. He is without a doubt getting worse. More avoidant, more defiant. If it wasn’t my life I would be so enthralled by the actions that tell his story, unfortunately I am to annoyed by his new self to  enjoy the analytical aspect of him at this point.  Some how I think he has some things up his sleeve for me. That attorney gave him some energy I think to combat me.

[MadLuv]

Another crazy update. XH did call and put a cc on my Chiefs account to pay going forward. They did not notify me and they said they do allow others to do that, but they don’t have access to anything else on the account. No access at all. The Chiefs put the CC on the account themselves. I stated that I should have been notified that someone is paying on my account either way.

If I was a guessing woman I would assume his lawyer said, take care of that and handle the special warranty deed so you show you handled what you were to do and then we can take her back to court and adjust the payments. The good thing is that it is a court ordered contractual alimony, so now all they can lower it to is 20% of his current gross salary and for 7 years.

My argument is that I would get 10 years if I would not have rushed for this agreement as we would have been married 30 years  as  state here goes by  10, 20, 30.  I would also advise that my payment from the 401k would have been more, he hid finances and CC. So, I may loose some money it he does and legal fees for sure, but he will not be able to get out of it and I will still  will get more than if we had ever let a judge decide.

As the pages turn……

[MadLuv]

Alimony was paid. I guess the delay was to make me nervous. It worked. Who knows what happens next. I journaled this to show even 3 years after a divorce things can get worse. I have 10 more years of alimony and it will be a long 10 years of this and something tells me that there is more to come.


Something else NEW!! My D33 told me that her dad ,who she referred to him by his name, showed up at his Mom’s house last year after he was told by his brother and cousin that she was ill and he better go see her and make it right. So, he showed up one night. He spent the night and got up the next morning and left. She said, grandma saod thr first thing she noticed was how old he looked. He told her he walked a lot and was completely off his diabetes 2 meds.

She told D33  he was my best kid growing up. He did what he was told with not hesitation. His brother would behave like, how many beating do I have to take before you will make me do this. She now said, he checks on me constantly and offers to have me come live with him and you dad I can’t even speak
To. I asked if she felt good about the visit. She said, I think she is at
Peace . That, it is was it is, but she does not expect to see him again. She did not speak glowingly of the visit. 

Very quick in and out. D33 said, if that was my kid and he abandoned his children I would be so distraught. I told D33 we have all lost. Ge abandoned all of us. It just shows thT he is not well and still not doing anything to look at why. 
D33 also is so confused that he bought this big expensive house and she still lives in the old house in another state. She checked as both OWife her and her D  work technically under my daughter , but also a different state. They are both still employed in the old state.

She said, it’s very telling that they aren’t living together. That they didn’t move with him. I said yes it is.

[beyondblessed]

ML, he still sounds like complete train wreck.  It's interesting about how he's becoming more unraveled at the 3 year point of the D.  My xh was still acting like a $h!te at that point, too, like still doing things to try and bait me into contact and exhibit some sort of imaginary control.   Needless to say, I didn't bite and let him to his OW and happy life lol

Now,  8 years later, OW is out of the picture,  proclaiming how he's apparently wronged her too, like she's an innocent victim 🙄🙄,  and xh has evidently been expressing his regret of the demise of our marriage  to mutual friends and  also to my dad as of late.  The things these people do make no sense.  They are disordered.  They ruin everything good and still keep running.  Like my xh, it catches up to them.

With your xh, it is telling that he has distanced himself from the new wifey.  I predict it won't be long before she's the next one getting the boot.  One thing is for sure, things won't be getting any better until he owns up to his choices and does the work to fix himself.  Even then,  he'll have a long way go.

[KayDee]

he was my best kid growing up. He did what he was told with not hesitation. His brother would behave like, how many beating do I have to take before you will make me do this. She now said, he checks on me constantly and offers to have me come live with him and you dad I can’t even speak

Wow - you're probably done with all the analysing - but this jumped out at me. We know of fight and flight as fear/trauma responses. But there are also freeze/flop and fawn. Your xH, his response was obviously fawn (prob. leading to extreme people pleasing and the crisis we all know and love )  - whereas the other brother, he was fight and seemed to somehow have maintained some resilience/resistance. Don't want to speak ill of xMiL but ---- beating a child into compliance? It sounds like a regime of fear.

Sorry you are still having to deal with this. Must be hard to thoroughly detach when these money and legal issues resurface.

[MadLuv]

BB- right? He is a train wreck. I'm not sure if it is getting worse because he has jumped fully in this life and all the past must go or because of jumping right in and still not happy, so he can't have the past reminding him? IDK, but it definitely shows he is not well and has not made any noticeable progress. I am
Not sure how their relationship will turn out. I know she is going no where. She has a materialistic dream right now. I guess it will be when he decides he cant keep up the facade of a millionaire.

This woman lived in an  very low income apartment her whole adult life and now has 2 homes and drives a Mercedes dressed in designer clothes and draped in diamonds.  Her disorders and his disorders combined are the train wreck. If they continue to live in 2 different states and she just commutes on the weekends this could go on indefinitely. An Avoidants dream marriage! Haha

Now,  8 years later, OW is out of the picture,  proclaiming how he's apparently wronged her too, like she's an innocent victim 🙄🙄,  and xh has evidently been expressing his regret of the demise of our marriage  to mutual friends and  also to my dad as of late.  The things these people do make no sense.  They are disordered.  They ruin everything good and still keep running.  Like my xh, it catches up to them

  crazy!! And he tell’s your Dad???  It’s all such a waste, isn’t it?  You know, my XH  told me things that I did to make him feel less than. “I got mad because he bought me a weight scale for xmas even thou I told him I wanted one” hahah. He said, I don’t know if all of this is what I made up in my head or it’s real.

Well, I am sure that I did and said  many things to make him feel bad in 30 years. I told him that he made fun of me also and made me feel bad. It’s knowing that it is not meant to purposely hurt and  that you tell the person how it makes you feel.  Apparently I did and that made me someone he couldn’t please and then grew to become the resentment of needing someone who made him feel better about himself. The issue at hand is his avoidance hasn’t changed. So, at some point all this will reoccur. For now he seems to her the perfect man, but those little things she is doing that annoys him are building. He doesn’t have 30 more years of life, so maybe she will make it. If she does than I guess she traded a life style for true happiness. It wont be a first.

KD- I highly doubt his mother beat them as it sounds, but I definitely think they were children that got the belt. However, I do think they all are a product of their mother’s coldness and after meeting her narcissistic Dad I saw exactly where it stemmed from. His mother is a everything is great”  mother. So, his avoidance totally makes sense to me. They were not allowed to complain. I did find that interesting when D33 told me that. 

What was more interesting was that her grandma told her anything that appears negative. I will say that she was the one I feared not seeing it as it is and blaming me. She has changed towards me, but I do think obviously she see him.  Her other son that she referred to is on his 3rd marriage and also is a mess. XH used to laugh in disgust at that brother and honestly XH is now living a life with a woman worse and paying for her kids. At least his brother is still involved with all his kids from other marriages.

It’s been complete silence since I dropped the small claims suit. I just feel a bomb is getting ready to be set off and I don't know when. Somehow no matter what I will make it through it. I am still jobless and will most likely have to early retire, so We will just have to see what is in store.

Thank you for replying. It’s always so good to get other perspectives. Sorry for all my typos. I always journal from my phone. Not the best for catching errors or hitting the wrong thing when typing.

[beyondblessed]

ML, the only thing we know for certain, is that both our x he's are a product of messed home environments.  I truly believe it goes with the saying, what is normal to the spider, is chaos for the fly.   I think we all carry different levels of baggage from our childhood environment and upbringing, but the trauma and chaos to them is the normal because it's what they were conditioned to believe and function in.  My parents were not perfecf, but compared to xh's, they were saints.  That is a huge reason I can understand why xh is the way he is and did the things he did.  Yes,  he still chose his path and actions, but he was guided by what he learned in childhood, and that is truly a shame.

[MadLuv]

Bb-agreed. I think it is recognizing your faults or behaviors they are linked to that upbringing and not blaming your parents, but doing the work to try and change what you can to not repeat history and knowing that you can’t change it all. Breaking habits is hard !!! Some we don’t realize and some become such a norm that maybe it takes a discard from an MLCer to even help us see things we hadn’t addressed yet

I still have work to do, but I will say the last conversation I did have with my XH I did apologize for things I recognized on my end. I also told him that I did see how this happened for him, but it would have never happened for me in a way of dealing with distress. I also told him that you don’t bring people into your life and have children and then treat them like this. It is unacceptable. His response, yeah. His apology after all my insight and truth darts?  “I’m sorry. I don’t know what happened to me”

I actually loved that last call. I was no longer tip toeing trying to save anything or avoid him running farther ( which he certainly has)  I at that moment did what I had to do to move forward with no regrets.

[KayDee]

What was more interesting was that her grandma told her anything that appears negative. I will say that she was the one I feared not seeing it as it is and blaming me. She has changed towards me, but I do think obviously she see him.  Her other son that she referred to is on his 3rd marriage and also is a mess. XH used to laugh in disgust at that brother and honestly XH is now living a life with a woman worse and paying for her kids. At least his brother is still involved with all his kids from other marriages.

With a HUGE caveat that I know nothing about your xMiL, I would just be mindful of not being drawn into a triangulation. Your XH has shut MiL out, maybe she is looking for an ally. Some people are very divisive that way, the 'you are either with me or against me' mentality. And, as you say, this is inter-generational. Where does the buck stop? My therapist often repeats - we as human beings have an uncanny way of becoming (or doing) the thing we fear the most. Salient words.

[MadLuv]

You are absolutely right. I was referring to my D’s interaction showing where she is. I have no communication with his mother. We send holiday cards and she likes my fb posts only if they involve the kids or grandson, but never mine alone. That’s what I meant. She is aware, but still on her son’s side no matter what( understandingly) I am Not a huge fan of hers and have no relationship anymore. I have and will continue a relationship with his brother and family. They are coming this summer for a weekend. It’s odd, but I think you have to choose who you want to have in your life and his kids and my kids deserve to be able to get together and they choose to do it here.

[MadLuv]

My D33 who has been a little disconnected since October started talking to me about her  Dad. Said she has been snooping. Iam glad she is talking, but also hard to try to not engage in things on my XH with my kids this seems first not great for me.  One, I know that she would never talk to him about me and  2 I feel a little used for her venting. However, Ilike she feels comfortable opening up again.

She said this XMAS he sent a box with gifts for everyone. When opening the box they were just all thrown in non wrapped. That it was process of illumination on what gift went to who. They all just got one gift. She said, she got knock off slippers of a name brand and that her daughters he bought the real slippers. She was furious about that. She said, why would he do that? Why would we all not at least get the same and why would his pwn daughter get the cheap knock offs??

So, I have thoughts on this. I told her that I think he feels he has to buy thr name brand fpr them and he cant agford it, but he wanted to send you something so he bought what looked like the real thing, because he isnt creative enough to come up with something else. With that said….it is disturbing. The non wrapped gifts also. There was no effort. She threw everything in the trash.  She told me that she told her brother he had a gift from him and he never picked it ip so she threw his out also.  My S31 never said a word to me.

Just another crazy  thing. Any thought?

[amazinglove]

I went thru this with my own dad tbh. In my epxerience, men are completely useless when it comes to gift giving - if they have been relying on a wife to handle everything in this dept for years. I remember one xmas - the first one after my parents seperated - my dad arrived and literally threw an unwrapped walkman (that's how long ago it was) at me! I think there is resentment too that they have to be 'in charge of this' and someone else isn't wrapping/handling for them and if they are narcissistic a lack of interest really in thinking about the other person enough to gift something thoughtful. In a nutshell, it fits right in with the kind of self-centered, petulant, MLC behaviour we see on here. I think possibly in your H's case, he is trying to impress the granddaughters -  and feels more secure, like his D will accept him in any case.

[MadLuv]

Thanks AL- I agree with men relying on the wife, but he has sent wrapped gifts until this year that he picked out, but this year unwrapped and cheap. The fact his wife's daughters got the name brand and d33 got knock offs I know is not because he thinks D31 will accept. What is crazy is now she said that she got a box for her bday also and when she opened the box if was a VS box and she thought, hmmmm what did he get me. She opened it and it waa a very ugly sweater she would never wear and the very mushy card unsigned. She said, it was very apparent that his wife sent the gift.

To me he just seems to be running away farther and the fact the OWife is sooooo materialistic he just cant keep up with it all. There is definitely changes happening with him. Not sure what it all means. His OWife D27 should have or will be having her baby any day. Past the due date now. D33 who has struggled with having her second child admitted to be taken a back to hear that. A little gut punch that he will be spending time with a grandchild that is not his vs his own and that a gal doing drugs gets easily pregnant vs her. Seemed unfair once again for good things to keep happening for those who have no regard for others.  I reminded her that what you see isn’t what really is. I don’t believe that they have a magical life. Just shallow people that dont know how real love works.

[KayDee]

I think there may be slipper confusion  did OWife's daughters get the real mccoy and your D got the duds? If that's the case, I would suspect OWife as the sender because it has a slight Machiavellian edge to it. Although, I may be over-estimating other people's skills If you xH sent it, I diagnosis laziness with a comorbidity of self-centred lack of empathy.

I suppose knowing about these gifts is not helpful to your recovery, as you say. You've managed to create a nice, calm island, where you stop your xH's drama washing up on your shores. And I imagine you'd prefer to have positive times with your D, not infected by your xH's antics. Obviously your D feels the need to vent, but it is still triggering for you - how does this mar your time together do you think?

[UrsaMajor]

MLC'ers ideas of Gift Giving rate about a +9 on the WTF factor.....

There is an LBS here whose 16-year-old daughter was getting clothes in the style (AND SIZE!!!  ) for a 10-year-old (the year that her MLC'er went BSC). There is another one whose kid got some sort of pink plastic animal head if I recall correctly that lived in the back of the kids' closet until they finally binned it.....  My MLC'er would buy the kids clothes that were 2-3 sizes too big (because that is what she herself wore) so they were often tripping over pants that were too long, needing belts to hold them up or pulling their sleeves back so they could use heir hands.... and she wondered why they had pain in their feet..... well, when the shoes are 3 sizes too big, they don't fit right and cause problems.... 

[MadLuv]

Kaydee- 😂😂 it’s slipper gate!!  Yes, our daughter was sent the duds and her daughters got the real mccoy.  It is a little annoying having to have that convo as like you said, I removed myself from all that and I don’t care to be dragged back in, but I also know the pain of rejection and  I am trying to suck it up and also get off the subject as quickly as possible.  My kids pain in all of this is definitely  and issue for me. I just never bring him up, but try to deal with when he does come up as quickly as possible.

Ursa- man, Sad and funny. If that’s possible 🤪  I know nothing should be surprising, yet  somehow things still amaze me.

So, I really dont know.  He has spent money like water and something is changing. He saved a mere $80 on this switch up. If it was pure laziness he would have bought all 3 real mccoys and shipped them to 2 different addresses. So, he went on one website to buy the two real ones and ship them and then on a different one to buy the fakes. That was extra effort. There is a reason and the only reason  I can deduct is that he is coming to some realization now after 100’s of thousands spent  in under 3 years, that he can’t keep it up and he is annoyed by it.  However , he is an avoidant and he can’t tell her the spending is out of control. Also, his mask is dropped with our kids. Her and her kids think he is a multimillionaire hero, so that is playing into this.  His weak persona needs their gratitude which I assume now has become expected and he isnt getting the amazement of his efforts anymore.  OWife got a 7k diamond ring.  IDK where the money is coming from, maybe he is dipping into that 401k.

He definitely knows our D33 has always worn the name brand.  It almost feel like he intended to trigger her, but I honestly don't know if it is just trying to save some money or a silent jab at this point, because I have no idea what is happening with him anymore, but if I was a betting gal he did it to cut costs and he has some realization now. 2 expensive car loans and 2 mortgages and my alimony. He has to be struggling. She and her D’s are living the life. I don’t think he is.

D33 also told me that S31 told his Dad at some point that he never intended to ever spend time with OWife and her family with him. D33 said, you see how that turned out. S31 was cut out . D33 said, I went out to eat and drove and spent a weekend with them and I still got cut out.  It’s all very sad. You can fall put of love and remarry, but how do you fall out of love with your own kids. I just think if you do that it is something that was never there on a deep level.

Either way….what a sad thing that if you have to cut costs it is with your child and not someone elses. I think he handled the slippers and I think she handled D33 bday gift and if I was a guessing gal again, I think the sweater was one she or one of her daughters didn’t like and she threw it in a  reused box and hurriedly sent it on. The mushy unsigned card was confirmation that OWife sent that no doubt. To me that is just insane in itself. Unsigned but mushy to a Daughter he hasn’t seen in over 2 years?

[beyondblessed]

ML, while I feel for your kids, your xh is clearly not all there.  At this point, I lean towards him swimming for his life, just trying to stay afloat, but that can't go on forever, either, so he's going be having some difficult choices to be making eventually.  He definitely does not look like a man who's living it up.  He looks like he knows he knows he's really screwed up, but doesn't know how to fix it or he knows how to fix it, but he doesn't have the courage to do so.  I think most of them would try to make amends, if they weren't such cowards.  It takes great strength to admit you've been less than, and "less than" is a grave understatement when it comes to the MLC'ERS choices and behavior.

Still, it does put you in awkward position, even if you are just listening to your kids vent about his crazy.  There are no easy answers.

[KayDee]

I think most of them would try to make amends, if they weren't such cowards.  It takes great strength to admit you've been less than, and "less than" is a grave understatement when it comes to the MLC'ERS choices and behavior.

So true. It feels like an in-built fail button somehow. I think, for many, they were people-pleasers extraordinaire, because they deeply fear anger. They also fear rejection by equal measure. They then avoid anger because it could cause a rupture (thus rejection). For people who have these fears, it's a huge thing to address. It's deeply ingrained from childhood. Then it takes strength to confront the anger they have made other's feel, which also means putting themselves at risk of rejection. It is possible I suppose, but while the person is in crisis, they don't have that strength, and the double bind is, they keep adding to their collection of despicable acts. They keep making their loved ones angry. They keep hurting people. They know this, not so deep down, that's why they keep burying and running.

[Reinventing]

If that's the case, I would suspect OWife as the sender because it has a slight Machiavellian edge to it. Although, I may be over-estimating other people's skills

I don't think we have the ability to imagine the depth of OW's Machiavellian skills

One of the things that rankles me is when OWs "sympathize" with the MLCer about how hard this is for the LBS to go through. That makes me gag.

Although I will say, the MLCer is the one who breaks their vows with the LBS. Not OW. However, OW's competitiveness can make it a lot worse for the LBS and the children.

[MadLuv]

BB- I agree with you. He  has been an extreme case and he just keeps digging in further. He now has pretty much replaced every aspect of his old life. He stated” there is nothing left of my life” funny how he seems suprised. It’s exactly what he thought he wanted 🤪  How they walkway from their kids and grandkids still baggles my mind, but he can’t face anyone that he once knew.

Kaydee- they are the ultimate victims. My first time I really grasped that was when he was talking to me on the phone about ending his life and then I get a notification from our grocery store with a receipt for the candy and snacks he literally bought while taking to me about being on deaths door. They will do anything to deflect or get us to back off or not be accountable.

Reinventing- The OW. I can’t even.  My  XH OWife is  definitely not making him a better man. She is just allowing him to do whatever as long as he buys he everything and everything.  She has a saying on her FB  a friend sent me. It says something like “ I know you look at me and wonder if I am better than you, yea b!tc# I am”  who posts this as their saying? My XH has no idea who he is married to. He is not on social media, but she has no ifea who she is married to either. Right now, they are perfect for each other. If I am being honest. 

[KayDee]

  She has a saying on her FB  a friend sent me. It says something like “ I know you look at me and wonder if I am better than you, yea b!tc# I am”

Ah, yes, but at what? 

[MadLuv]

Absolutely nothing. 🤣 The arrogance of the AP’s thinking they won a prize amazes me. It took me a while to finally see that I was in some magical thinking that my XH was still a great guy. I still thought someone that was abusing me could  somehow still  bring me happiness . He isn’t a good guy right now and that took a while to sink in. That was the beginning of my big leap in healing.  It was also my saddest moment. I never wanted to view him the way I do now. I don’t think he wants to be this way. I feel bad for him. He destroyed his life and tried to destroy everyone who loved him. That is a heavy load to carry.