Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: in it on August 14, 2018, 01:04:25 PM
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https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7305.150 (https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7305.150)
Link to previous thread above
Found Online:
What Is the No Contact Rule?
The No Contact Rule is simplicity itself: it merely means not having any communication with your former romantic partner, for a specified period of time.
Read the entire article here: https://pairedlife.com/breakups/no-contact-rule-after-breakup
RCR Note: Please be considerate of copyright and do not paste entire articles from other sources. I feel it is important that we look outside of my own articles and the forum, but writers need credit for their work and you need to be respectful of this. Post an excerpt and then a link. I received an official notice regarding this particular article which is why my comment is here and not on others--as I am not able to go around looking for articles that should not be pasted in full.
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Attaching InIt... :)
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Of course, if you and your ex-partner have children together, then you will inevitably need to discuss issues such as welfare and access. While this type of dialogue is unavoidable, you should do your very best to keep these interactions to a bare minimum.
If MLCer and LBS have a business some contact will also be necessary.
And not all LBS need or want No Contact, but they may go Dark or Dim.
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I have stated before this thread isn't for everyone. If you have had someone abuse you even verbally IMHO it is totally necessary to do this . If you don't cut the contact and continue to allow them access to you what kind of message are you sending?
That the abuse is ok? Sure I'll still talk to you even though you see nothing wrong with what you said or did?
You are having sex or living with someone else while being married or in a committed relationship? Sure we can still talk. Where does that get anybody?
Minor children involved I understand that still has to be dealt with. I have little to no experience with that. Nor being in business with an Mlcer.
In some cases it's the only way to end the crazy making these people seem to be into. It's a last ditch effort to end the drama and find the peace and strength within yourself . No contact is for you so you can heal get your balance and perspective back.
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In It, don't preach to the choir. I have a MLCer that was physically abusive.
I was only saying that having a business with the MLCer requires dialogue/communication. And that not everyone needs no contact.
Lots of LBS on HS still have daily contact with their MLCer that lives with OW/OM. Some even allow the MLCer to come by the home.
RCR had contact with her husband almost all the type he was away - there was a brief period of No Contact. He came and went some 8 times.
So, I think for some, and that is certainly true for those that have reconcilled, keep contact with the MLCer even if there is OW/OM is/was relevant.
Several here want to reconcile and don't have violent MLCers.
Sure, No Contact helps a lot with cutting the drama and the crazy. But not everyone has the type of drama or the violence you and did.
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Anjae if this thread upsets you then don't read it.
I'm glad you found some way to communicate with someone who has been physically abusive to you.I wasn't trying to preach to any choir in answering you.I know you went through that too.
Its an option for some of us maybe not all.There is no real solution in my situation.Its over with done.Nothing I will ever tolerate or put up with again.
It was the only way I can feel safe and regain my sanity.
It has been said on here take whatever may apply or work and try that.
I'm not saying the way I had to do it would work for everybody.Its simply an option.
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It's a very personal decision, but one we each instinctively make if we get to the point of survival or sanity I think.
I had short periods of NC (on the rare occasions when he wanted it LOL) during the divorce process because the mindf**kery and drama was futile and making me run out of steam to the point of being suicidal.
and my current and permanent 'NC even possible' (changed all my details and xh/ow don't know where i live now) was because there was simply no other way to stop the threats, insanity and abuse other than feeding the drama and my L's bank account by going to court. Easier and cheaper to just slam the door shut and run as we have no children, the divorce is done and there is no possibility of reconciliation now that he is married or benefit to me in any contact at all.
But it also means giving up hope of even an apology let alone any kind of shared closure or reconnection, and most of us find that a tough decision to make.
it's so easy when we are trying to navigate through this to believe that 'paving the way' means leaving some kind of contact door half-open, so if any of us choose NC, it is normally because we really feel we must for our own wellbeing and safety.
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I agree, NC can be the best thing if your spouse is abusive...in any way. It's the only way to stop abusers.
I also agree variations of contact may be better for LBS spouses who are not abusive. Mine never was so there was no reason to go NC.
I guess a person has to look at their own situation with clarity, honesty, not using emotions. Decide if you are being emotionally or physically abused. If you are, go NC and stop the drama, so you can heal. Abuser's won't stop on their own.
I also think if you have kids together or a business together, there are still ways of using NC if you need it.
Keep all contact short, to the point and only about the kids or work. Nothing else. If contact is about anything else, ignore it. Let them know you want no contact with them unless it is important, or an emergency.
You can also co-parent without being a couple. A lot of people do it.
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Yep that's for sure Treasur that's what it came down to..survival and sanity..and the reality is you don't get closure with a narcissist. There won't ever be an apology. Even if you did you really couldn't believe it was sincere. And acknowledging what happen for the ex in an apology would be admitting to a physical assault so you see I won't be getting one. So you have to be happy with the one you didn't get.
I guess people think it should be easy to walk away from a highly abusive relationship. It isn't. Once I realized I deserved better than that, there was no turning back for me.
I'm sure to this day I wouldn't be able to be civil to him even if he and I ever did speak. Sick of the drama and bullsh!t.
Yep sometimes you gotta slam that door nail that sucker shut and burn the bridge so the crazies don't follow you.
I live 1100 miles away from where the ex is. My proximity was just too close. Wasn't my plan. But for the most part it was the only way I might be able to gain some more strength have some peace and feel safe. I sort of started to trigger too easily where I was living
.I didn't even want to go for a walk for fear of being seen. That's no way to live. And I'd lived there just about my whole life. I know just about everyone there..my friends and what family I have is in that area..it was like I got passed a lot of it then I'd back slide.It was hampering my healing.
So after I met this man(we had been communicating for months before we met) I took care of what I needed to at my house (had a roof put on and took care of some loose ends) about 2 months later threw some clothes in the car( along with my cat) transferred my job and left.Made the trip in three days.
So my decision to live where I am was based in part on removing myself physically from the area and some of the bad memories.But also after meeting a wonderful man. I thought to myself I can sit here where I was and wonder what I may have passed on or take a chance that this relationship would be different. So far it's working for both of us.
My bigger challenge will be going back ....ugh :P
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For me, I chose NC 3 years after BD - after he admitted that he had been in a long term affair, loved the woman, and was sharing his life with her. His divorce was in its final stages, and there was nothing left for me to do to save the marriage. It was at this time, that I decided that the ONLY way I would ever heal was to be 100% away from him. To be honest, it hasn't been difficult not picking up the phone. I have had moments, but not the yearning I would have expected. The grief associated with the end of the marriage and the betrayal has been brutal, but I haven't wanted to reach out to him for support. It also doesn't bother me that he thinks I am "punishing" him. Actually, that tells me that the world still revolves around him and he has no empathy for what I have had to deal with. When I think about seeing him, I can't think of one item that we could discuss. He doesn't tell the truth and I don't want to hear about her, so what would we talk about. I have my own separate relationship with the adult kids, so no need to discuss them. I just picture us staring at each other, so No Thank you, I am done.
That all said - if a miracle happened and he did some self development - I would be first in line to see him.....
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Init, thank you. I appreciate these posts so much :)
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You're welcome Tkys
NC is not for everyone one and not one of the easiest roads to take.. :P
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Found Online:
The sting of a breakup or divorce is painful and disorienting. Adrenaline courses through the body and the mind races. The suffering party thinks, “This can’t be happening.” And with that thought paramount, the individual seeks corrective action—talking it out with the ex, identifying the fix that will save the relationship, or in some way buying time through compromise, temporizing, papering over: Whatever it takes.
And yet the single best way to accelerate the healing process after a breakup or divorce is this: Stop contact with the ex.
If you are trying to recover from the end of a relationship, this advice may be difficult to accept. Your mind may already be working overtime to rationalize why it's OK for you to stay in direct contact. You may say that you have to give your ex-partner their stuff back. Or that you think it is best to keep living together, for a while at least. You may say that you have to check in on your ex’s family members. Perhaps there is a birthday coming up, or some other event. And what harm can it do to see what the ex is up to on social media? You assure yourself that you can break up and still stay friends.
In reality, the only legitimate reason for contact not to be avoided is if you have children and must communicate about co-parenting responsibilities—and even in that case, you should maintain boundaries by limiting conversation to matters pertaining to the children. Otherwise, continuing, or attempting to continue, communication with your ex will only prolong your suffering—and prevent you from beginning a productive process of letting go.
Here are four more reasons to stop contact with an ex:
1. You can't heal.
Ending a relationship is difficult, but the painful feelings are not permanent. You will feel sad, you will feel angry, you will feel a sense of shock that your life has taken this turn. As I describe in Breaking Up and Divorce: 5 Steps, these feelings are normal, and they're part of the recovery process. Eventually, if you allow it, a kind of acceptance will come into your life. However, if you persist in contacting or attempting to contact your ex, you are working against the recovery process and in favor of a self-defeating strategy of denial. This may buffer the blow but it cures nothing. It just allows you to put off fully accepting difficult feelings and your new circumstances. Confronting the difficult feelings and accepting the fact that your ex is no longer there means you are now on the path to healing. There is comfort in this and as you persist your world will grow brighter.
2. You can't let new energy in.
Even if you are not consciously aware of it, if you are still in contact with your ex, you are continuing to devote energy over to that relationship, which can no longer be what you need and want. Each time you talk to your ex, work to make contact, or think about when you will next be in contact, you siphon off the energy needed to pursue new life experiences.
3. You live off fantasy.
If your relationship has ended, then it's over: What you had with your ex no longer exists. It will never be the same. Continuing the connection means that a part of you is still hoping that in some alternate universe there is a chance you and your ex can be together and be happy. As a result, you live off moments of closeness. But each time you come in touch, you are reminded that you no longer have your ex and you face crushing disappointment all over again. This roller coaster gets in the way of real life and its actual opportunities for happiness.
4. You relive your mistakes.
Part of what is so hard about managing relationship endings is that the injured party tends to blame himself or herself. In some ways, a relationship ending should be an opportunity for personal growth. However, it is a mistake to remain, or attempt to remain, in contact with an ex in the hope of achieving a chance to do things over. Like a character in Groundhog Day, you'll wake up with the same fears and upsets about yourself as you did the day before. This is because maintaining contact keeps you stuck in limbo: You can’t be with your ex but you can’t move on. Once you let go—completely—you gain the freedom to live, mostly unencumbered by the regrets and hurts of yesterday.
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You can cut off contact with your ex and move on with your life and put your old life behind you. Whether or not your spouse wants contact with you. That's your prerogative as a divorced person.
Or you can frame it as this THING called No Contact and continue to obsess over the fact that you have no relationship with your spouse because instead you have this THING called No Contact that constantly looms large in your life.
It's like telling yourself not to think of pink elephants. All you can do in that case is think of pink elephants. What's the point of this thing called No Contact if all you do in no contact is obsess over and talk about your ex? You are maintaining your own mental one way contact with that. Is that healthy? i don't think it is moving on at all.
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.I only started the thread after I realized the kind of inhumane person I was dealing with.
Maybe no one else is dealing with this kind of person?
Anyway just about any article I find is about the same. Cut contact after a relationship ends. I'm not cherry picking here..Go look them up for yourself Goner.
I have had other relationships in my life end and I did not stay in contact with those men either.
Again if there's nothing here of any interest to you do not read this thread. No reason to psyche eval me.
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Excellent article, in it and I completely agree with the advice for the LBS's who are no longer standing. For those who are standing, you need to stay in some contact in order to pave the way.
As much as I have tried to go longer, the longest consecutive day period without contact is 16 days. The longest period without face to face contact was 10 weeks. It was great and I very clearly saw the benefits of NC.
Unfortunately there are still times when we need to communicate - unavoidable for now. H did stop by a few days ago as well and there was some polite but reserved conversation. Very brief and he was out the door. What I noticed in the few days since, is that I've had a mini set back and lost some of the peace I had during the 16 days of NC. Thinking about him too much again and I thought I had this under control. A bit of weepiness too. So I can relate somewhat to the Ground Hog day analogy.
In my case since I am not standing, permanent NC will be the way to go and I can't wait to have exactly that. No joint property, no joint anything and then I will get my wish. Then .... accelerated healing. The one problem remaining could be H trying to maintain a connection. Minor problem because then I can just ignore him. Better yet, I can change my phone numbers and keep him from knowing where I live. Turbo healing.
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.I only started the thread after I realized the kind of inhumane person I was dealing with.
Maybe no one else is dealing with this kind of person?
In it I totally relate to this....I am dealing with this kind of person. All I see is a psychopath right now so going no contact is better for MY emotional well being so that I'M ok for my children. I guess I'm just stuck on the fact that my H was never inhumane before- in fact the opposite. If he was always bad then I actually think it would be easier.
I still can't get my head around what no contact actually means? I don't know what kind of contact I have with H. We have had no direct conversation for months. Since finding out about OW last October I have never initiated contact unless necessary, although it's only the last few months that I've stopped sending lengthy emotional messages in response. He used to come to the house to see the kids every morning and evening but after court next week apart from drop off and pick ups with the kids there will be even less contact. RCR talks about not recommending no contact as you can't pave the way. However I don't think even with contact H is able to see anything. Today when he dropped the kids he was extremely agitated and anxious around me. He struggled to ask me a simple question about his post and when he asked he was full of anger and hate just looking at me....and of course the whistling started as soon as he saw me. I intellectually know that he's struggling because he doesn't want the feelings he has when he's around me and probably wishes he felt indifferent but for my self esteem and mental health I just can't deal with it...It's emotionally abusive and the only way to protect myself is to go no contact.
Not sure if anyone can tell what kind of contact mine is with H as I don't think it is no contact (still see him more than I want to).
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I'm sorry mitten, but your MLCer IS emotionally abusive.
Some of they need to be cut off at the knees.
In It knows I'm not a fan of NC, but when it is necessary I have no problem being honest and telling someone it is the best solution for them. Abuse is abuse.
Mitten, maybe try to get the kids dropped off by someone else, or some place else so you don't need to see or talk to him.
Let him Monster or hate somewhere else. You need peace...and peace right now is away from him.
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I agree I don't think anyone when they started this site was an advocate of abuse. Or expects anyone to put up with it.
And Thunder is right Mitten. Try to make different arrangements. There is no need to put up with abuse in the hopes it restores your family or wakes the Mlcer up. That's not the sacrifice you need to make. Don't sacrifice your self worth or self esteem or dignity for the likes of these people.
And paving the way as I see it can be your life the example you would want your children to look up to if possible. If by some unavoidable choice they make they happen to repeat the same thing. God forbid.
If someone wants to continue to make things easy for grown adults by paving the way maintaining some sort of communication? More power to them.
Personally that part of my life is over for me..I forgave myself for accepting such horrible treatment
You are doing great Anon.
You can forgive them and not have another thing to do with them.
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If this thread upsetted me, I would have said so.
I don't communicate with Mr J. He has been sending one, or two e-mails, a year since 2016. Pratical stuff that requires a couple of words to reply.
I'm not saying the way I had to do it would work for everybody.
It does not work for everybody because most have different situations.
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If someone wants to continue to make things easy for grown adults by paving the way maintaining some sort of communication? More power to them.
It's funny, when I first arrived at HS 2.5 years ago, I skipped right over threads like this. As a newbie, I did not want to even consider not having any contact with my H.
But I agree with the above statement wholeheartedly and if I could go back in time, I would have gone dim/dark much sooner. My H was really only monster for a few months after BD and was never physically abusive, but abuse comes in many forms, and gaslighting, silent treatment and diminishing us is a huge form of abuse that leaves lasting scars. I listened to it for the first few months and it was far too long.
I also consider it a form of emotional abuse that he provides no financial support and vanished when I was diagnosed with cancer and changed his phone number.
It's not my responsibility now to pave the way by opening/maintaining some form of communication. He chose to disappear (at a time when I was most vulnerable) and in my mind, reaching out to him would be akin to enabling. It would be sending him a message that he can behave in the most selfish and cruel way and I'll still come back for more. I think the message he needs to get (and he won't now, but maybe some day he will) is that I have enough self-respect to not allow myself to be treated so callously.
Right now he might be relieved that I'm not contacting him, but one day he will realize that he threw away the best friend (and maybe the only true friend) he ever had.
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Hi Nas,
It's not my responsibility now to pave the way by opening/maintaining some form of communication. He chose to disappear (at a time when I was most vulnerable) and in my mind, reaching out to him would be akin to enabling. It would be sending him a message that he can behave in the most selfish and cruel way and I'll still come back for more. I think the message he needs to get (and he won't now, but maybe some day he will) is that I have enough self-respect to not allow myself to be treated so callously.
EXACTLY.
Your post sent me online to see what the story is with H's who leave their wives when they are sick.There are quite a few theories, examples, articles with the statistics and the reasons behind it.
I know of five men who stayed with their wives through their illnesses, and with the few people I do know that seems pretty good to me. One is my second cousin and the other was childhood friend of mines husband.
Currently I have a friend of 30 plus years who has MS and her H is supportive and attentive. The other two were members of my church. There might be more, that's as many as I could think of in a short time. So it does happen there are men who can deal with it.
Found online:
Book of Odds
July 28, 2013 ·
Why Do Men Leave Sick Wives? Are they just Jerks?
Jon Sobel
Thinking about leaving your spouse? You’ve got plenty of company.
Lots of people ‘fess up to intermittent thoughts of checking out of a marriage. The odds a married man occasionally thinks about leaving his wife are 1 in 4.2. Married women are even more likely to ponder the possibility: their odds are 1 in 3.3. And 1 in 10 wives think about it often (compared with only 1 in 20 husbands).
But introduce a serious illness into the marriage, and the balance shifts—a lot. A 2009 study published in the journal Cancer found men were seven times as likely to leave a wife diagnosed with brain cancer or multiple sclerosis than women were to leave a similarly afflicted husband. Specifically, 1 in 4.8 husbands left (20.8%) vs. just 1 in 34.5 wives (less than 3%).
The most famous case may be that of former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who purportedly discussed divorce terms with his first wife while she was recuperating from cancer surgery. Are such men just being jerks?
It might be slightly more complicated than that. Researcher Marc C. Chamberlain, MD suggested that women might have a deeper emotional attachment to family, so that in an extremely stressful situation they’d be more likely to “hunker down and deal with it” whereas a man might be more prone to jump ship.
It seems men may have a harder time handling stress in general, and researchers have documented gender differences in stress response going all the way back to the womb. For example, the September 11, 2001 terror attacks led to a 3% increase in the number of miscarried male babies, but no increase in miscarriage for female babies. New research on the stress hormone cortisol is helping to explain why male and female fetuses respond differently to maternal stressors (like illness, smoking, or psychological trauma).
( I found this eye opening)
For males who do manage to get born and live to adulthood, oxytocin, the calming, “cuddle hormone,” becomes key. Under stress, men make less of it than women do. Women tend to respond to stress by nurturing others, seeking support for themselves, talking things over; men tend to look for an “escape,” according to psychologist Carl Pickhardt, author of The Everything Parent's Guide to Positive Discipline.
And when men have babies of their own, their response to stress can be destructive to the new family. According to wellness guru Dr. John W. Travis, there’s an “epidemic” of men abandoning their families shortly after a child is born. Some literally leave; others detach psychologically via substance abuse, or by becoming workaholics.
A final, sour note for ailing wives: new research might just have added insult to injury. When men are under stress, they don’t just distance themselves. Their mating preferences change.( ::))
I agree with you staying and maintaining NC ..Nas.. Frankly? You don't need the stress.
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Very interesting article, init, thanks for sharing.
To clarify, my H left me about 2 years before I got diagnosed. So it wasn't my cancer that made him run. It was him being a selfish MLCer that made him run. My cancer diagnosis just gave him an excuse to disappear without having to divorce me or provide any financial support because I was out of work, too broke to pursue any legal action and too sick to deal with the ridiculous and needless hassle of trying to get him to deal with the divorce he said he wanted.
He'd been living with the OW for exactly a year when I was diagnosed. He was a clinger before he moved and there was off-and-on contact for the year after he moved 1000 miles away to be with her. I got diagnosed and then he vanished. I didn't hear from him for an entire year and at some point during that year he changed his phone number.
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I am so sorry for what you've been through..omg what a $h!tety thing for someone to do..I haven't got the vocabulary for this. I'm totally without words..disgusted comes to mind.
Someone on here had her H give his excuse/reason for leaving was...the dog was too fat.
If I was that ow I would have run away from him like my hair was on fire.
IMHO what the om/ow that get involved with these Mlcers believe is:
"Oh he/she wouldn't do that to me".
They think they are different, special somehow. The same thing will happen to them...sometimes it's worse.
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IMHO what the om/ow that get involved with these Mlcers believe is:
"Oh he/she wouldn't do that to me".
They think they are different, special somehow. The same thing will happen to them...sometimes it's worse.
I really hope so. I'm not ashamed to admit I wish no happiness for the OW, even though it was my H who left me high and dry. She's despicable nonetheless. But after 4 years (1 year of EA, 1 year of long distance PA and 2 years living together), I don't see this relationship ending. I have stopped believing in karma, so the only thing I can do is hope to get well and hope to be able rebuild my life to some level of "okay-ness" and just cut off all access to me so that H lives his life and I don't have to see any of it, whether it's good or bad.
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Well it did take years..but after my first marriage ended ( no children )I was very young.He left me for someone else.I had no contact with him.
I found this out years later.
He did marry the ow.. had a child.I guess this child had gotten to be around 3 or so.
His business relocated out of the US so he was traveling there spending some time..flying back amd forth.
He started a whole other family in that country! The ow/W only found out becuse she got a credit card bill with baby clothes charged on it.
So you see I was glad I was me and not her.
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I'm definitely still struggling to try and limit my contact with H. Saturday our daughter wanted to lunch with us, together as a family, so we did. It went well, later I ended up looking through his phone, and he flipped out, as usual, but I don't care. He will state, as always "This is why I won't come back to you, because I'm not going to live like this, you looking through my phone, etc." I always say ok, but that's how it'd have to be.
I know he can contact her other ways, and if he truly wanted to be with her, if we got back together, he would see OW if he wanted to.
I already tried it several times "his way", and not being so worried about what he was doing or where he was going, but that didn't work either. So, my boundaries would be, if I wanted to look at his phone, etc. He would give me those things without hesitation if he truly felt remorseful and wanted his family back 100%, but he doesn't act like that, and therefore I won't come back. I won't put me and our daughter through that again.
Part of me still believes we are meant to be together, but other parts of me, I think I'm crazy to even think that.
He was pretty mean to me last night, but that's because I guess I'm just the easiest target for him to take all his frustrations and anger out on. He already tried calling me this morning, right on cue, and I did not answer. I know he will text me later, acting as if nothing has happened.
And boy the things he and his OW text each other. So ridiculous. She completely lies to him, and him to her, its so crazy. I really don't know why they think THAT is love?
Him lying to me, of course he does, all the time, but I'm not an idiot on that level and know pretty much all he does is lie anymore. He can't even remember what lies he's told anymore, but he still is my husband and it feels so hopeless that I cannot help him through this and I won't be until he wants that help 100% and work on us.
It saddens me very much to know this could last for years, with that said, I know I have to try my best to keep going day by day to go on with my life as if he is no longer in it. It's just very hard accepting that right now, but I'm trying my best to get there.
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Aw you will get there, Nina.
None of us could detach right away. I don't think that's possible. Especially all the contact you have.
It takes a long time.
You know you don't have to play "happy family" with him. Just tell you D that you and her dad are taking a break (time out) right now, but you would gladly take her out to lunch and have a girls lunch. (All said in a cheery voice).
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I agree..limit your contact with him. Your D doesn't really understand what this entails between the two of you. I know it isn't easy to say no but you must for your own well being.
Playing "happy family" isn't what real.
You know some of what you need in order to trust him again. Him freely granting access to his phone is one of those things. He isn't ready to do this. And you may have to face the reality he might not ever be.
Have you ever tried or been totally NC?
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Yes, I went a little over two weeks, maybe two months in after it begun, and he blew up my phone everyday with texts and calls. He wanted to talk, he was sorry, all the things one wants to hear. I finally caved, we went back home, but in less than 48 hours he contacted her. That happened like three more times and then me and D finally had enough, we moved out and live with my brother since. I tried going back one another time, not to live, just trying again, and he failed again. So haven't TRIED again since Mother's Day.
Contact has been off and on since. It's VERY HARD to not talk to him, especially when he texts me all the time saying things that make me cave.
So haven't talked to him today, but like I said, right on cue, he just texted about 30 minutes ago texting "Thinking of ya".
It makes me so mad that he can act as if last night didn't happen, being so mean to me, not caring about my feelings at all, or that's how it feels anyways.
And I know he acts more mean with me when he is going to go be with OW. Also, OW has NO idea how much we talk to still are intimate, I truly think she believes we've been "over" for a long time now, OR she just wants to pretend that that's not happening, and their just living in their own little la la land bubble still.
I know D doesn't understand everything that's going on, she's almost 16, so she's not dumb, I think her and I are both the same, we just don't understand all this, and probably never will. We just don't know how he can pretend we both don't exist, but wants us to exist when HE wants. He's very selfish, it's crazy how a person can change in such an instant.
Unfortunately, I think he is starting to get really depressed, he always looks so tired. He just doesn't seem happy, and it makes me sad to see him like this. Just wish he could for once put his pride and shame aside and be a better him, even if it doesn't mean to be back with me.
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Nina, this is all so typical. They want their cake n eat it too.
I'll let InIt give you the gentle 2x4.
You have having way too much contact with him for your own good.
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Thunder is right he's cake eating.
He's making you an option. You've been through enough.
Don't allow him to manipulate you.
Only you can do this. Do not reply to his texts. Or answer his calls.
You have tried a couple of times. Stop making the effort
What you allow continues.
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I know :(
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I know it isn't easy. But you have to think about you. :)
You can do this! He might blow your phone up for a while. He's a big boy, don't worry about him.
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in it: I am very happy about this thread. The articles and discussions are spot on for me. I just recently went NC with the COWARD. Only way she will be able to contact me is through e-mail so I have documented proof of anything. She has no key to the marital home anymore. I have blocked her on FB and my phone.
This has done wonders for my self esteem, and less monkey braining. I am in the early stages of NC and read the articles you posted and am gaining strength.
and the reality is you don't get closure with a narcissist. There won't ever be an apology. Even if you did you really couldn't believe it was sincere.
To the person that posted this...thank you. My MLCer#1, is a true narcissist. I know I will never get an apology nor is she capable of doing so. She is not wired that way. I have accepted that as fact and move on.
It was at this time, that I decided that the ONLY way I would ever heal was to be 100% away from him. To be honest, it hasn't been difficult not picking up the phone.
To the person that posted this...exactly. MLCer#1 and I have very little contact and only for child arrangements (she lives 4hr away and I have both of our boys). I have healed from that psycho now completely. MLCer#2 I have only recently gone NC. The disappointment and anger has driven me to not want contact at all with her unless she wants her cr*p from the marital home. Then it is e-mail contact only. As I have said, blocking her from my phone helped tremendously. It took a few days to get over, but am doing better.
When I think about seeing him, I can't think of one item that we could discuss. He doesn't tell the truth and I don't want to hear about her, so what would we talk about. I have my own separate relationship with the adult kids, so no need to discuss them. I just picture us staring at each other, so No Thank you, I am done.
To the person that posted this...yep totally get it. I don't think I can ever have a conversation worth any meaning with either of my MLCers. MLCer#2 especially right now is nothing but a liar. Agreed, this is for me to heal, so no thank you, see ya later, don't let the door hit you in the a$$...or if it does let it leave a mark.
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Attaching
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Found online:
How helpful is no contact rule after a breakup?
Without a question, the no contact rule is the most effective way of creating a deep impact on ones ex's memory. Though, intuition says that your ex will forget you during the no contact rule or any novice guy who has no sense of relationship games will suggest you abstaining the no contact rule.
The no contact rule is as effective as a paracetamol is for fever. It has about 90% success rate and definitely your ex is going to take their phone and call you back. But the no contact rule have to be followed with strict standards.
Why it works ?
You'll follow the no contact rule only if you were dumped. Had break-up been your idea you'd be having romance with your beloved. Right?
Space plays a very significant role during the no contact rule. I must say that space is the backbone of the no contact rule. Post breakup, you bombarded your ex with your calls and texts and during time you completely loose your value before them. Ultimately, they tend to ignore you even more hoping to permanently stay away from you.
Now, when you decide to follow the no contact rule, you set them free. You don't call them for 9 months or 1 year. During this period, they may get into innumerable relationships but once they don't see you begging before them, they become curious. The more days you don't contact them, the more they think about you.
I know it is not easy. It's tougher than you can imagine. Every momemt you will feel like taking your phone and dropping them a message or a call. And you've to stop yourself from accidentally flooding into them.
I've been into all this and it's like stopping your breath for 9 months. I tried to follow the no contact rule again and again. I'd control myself for a week or two but then I'd take my phone call them and “I love you , please don't leave me. I'll die without you” yes. I'd do it twice or thrice every month, thus the no contact rule couldn't work.
Then finally , I accepted the truth and left everything. I cried continuosly for a week like a child does- bitterly.
I never called her again and then year later she herself called me to ask how was I doing.
This is the real power of the no contact rule. Once you stop calling or contacting them by any means, the begin to wonder - where the hell are you. They start to miss you. Ultimately, they forget all your negative traits and remember only the good ones, with the passage of time.
This was not just mine case, I have seen many guys who got back their ex just by strictly following the no contact rule. Also , I've helped a number of guys post their break-up and also, got their exes realise their mistake. The no contact rule has been the best instrument.
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bump
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I have been pretty good at NC. I actually think I’ve become avoidant of my MLCer due to him being in monster mode all the time. Any contact with him triggers me. Since discovering OW last October I have not contacted him unless I’ve had to about the kids or money. It’s invited monster spew and emotional abuse back.
The summer holidays was the longest we had no contact and he didn’t see me since BD & what does he do? Makes sure he refuses every reasonable contact plan that I suggest which would have maintained no contact just so he can continue to see me daily in our home! Despite this he delusionally tells me that it’s me that can’t get over him and move on and that I’m jealous of OW.
Is this him initiating contact? It’s a very warped way to do it.What do you do in this case?
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I don't know but he certainly is not letting you go, regardless of what he says. :)
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I agree with Thunder..until you have nothing to do with him he will not get the message.
No one and I do mean no one needs put up with this.
He doesnt like losing control of the situation thats the other reason he can't let go.
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Always seems to me that the two most simple flags of MLC bonkers are
Control, and
Me Me Me-ness
A sane healthy adult understands that others have opinions and priorities to be respected if they want respect in turn
And that there are other people with feelings and needs to show empathy for, even if we don't agree with them
Tbh, most kids get this by about 6 or 7 (even if they lose it a bit as a teenagers LOL)
Trust your gut, Mitten and do what you can to step away from his control and self-centredness.
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Yep I agree the control and the me me me attitude.
They can only drive you crazy if you hand them the keys.
Cut the contact. Heal and get stronger. Do not allow grown adults to manipulate you as a small child might. Do not enable them.
They are big boys and girls. Set them loose to deal with whatever they are dealing with. Let go and let God. You didn't break them you cannot fix them.
Avoid and stay away from the drama do not get sucked into it. The more you deal with them you may only end up causing yourself more pain. And they get power from causing your pain. Makes them feel powerful. In essence they are bullies.
Protect yourself by any means possible.
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I don't know but he certainly is not letting you go, regardless of what he says. :)
I think this true thunder- or it’s the control he can’t let go of.
He doesnt like losing control of the situation thats the other reason he can't let go.
I agree. In true narc style I’m an object to control. I’m not sure it’s me he can’t let go of or the control and power he thinks he has over me. He’s very grandiose and manic right now so he gets a kick out of having that control as nothing else in his life seems to be in control.
Trust your gut, Mitten and do what you can to step away from his control and self-centredness.
Oh how I wish I could step away. I thought I was standing but not sure how that can happen when someone makes your skin crawl. It’s getting harder to remember old H.
I will update on my thread but I finally received his finiacial disclosure yesterday. As expected there’s lots missing and he’s trying to hide money and shares.
I’m full of anger as I have fully contributed to our marriage and life. I worked and studied to make a better life for our family. I sacrificed my high paid job to move to a different city with H so he could build his buisness. I again worked part time to look after the children while he focused on his buisness. And now he’s trying to deny me what’s rightfully mine and the childrens. And on top of that saying OW values things in life so he doesn’t need to support her... well he didn’t need to support me either. I was not a kept woman ever! Everything I had was mine that I worked for while he borrowed and stole from his dad. Seeing this form has added to my feeling of disgust when I see him- I can’t even remember the love I once felt. I can’t beleive the man I woke up next to every morning for 15 years and who I had 2 children with is capable of stooping soo low as to deny me and our children what we deserve.
Sorry to rant and ramble on this discussion thread...it’s just one thing after another.
At this moment I think no contact forever may be the only way for me. Tooo much damage.
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Mitten, if you believe he is hiding financial information you can always hire a an Accountant that can research this, a Forensic Accountant.
It may be worth the money.
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Thunder I do plan to do this if I have to. We’re at the early stages when my solicitor will be asking more questions and for more disclosure. They do have forensic accountants that work for them. The problem is the money it costs to go all of this and the possibility that he actually hadn’t got any money and is in fact in more debt. He’s currently claiming some of his debt as marital- quite a bit of it! :o
It’s all in his name and he lied to me about having paid off family holidays we had been on that in fact he hadn’t. And the amount he’s claiming is marital is way above what a couple of holidays cost. He of course hasn’t provided any statements for this- so of course my solicitor will be chasing that to. Again if he’s so desperate to get the D done then why would he drag his feet to provide what he knows he has to. Yet another MLC control thing I guess!
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It's ok Mitten go ahead and rant here.
I have no idea how someone who you thought cared about and loved you for years turned into such a sorry excuse for a human being but they do that. Your job is now to protect yourself from them. Not to hold their hand or have any compassion for them.
They haven't shown any for you or even their own children. Do NOT account to him about anything. Where you go or what you do anything that feeds his ego and keeps you emotionally right where he left you. That's his goal. You have to take back your power and the control away from him.
I know! Doesn't it just piss you off as a woman they act like you contributed nothing to the relationship? Nothing to the financial progression or quality of life for a family in whatever way you could? Like the only value you can be given is how much money you brought into the relationship? >:(
Believe me he's the loser and big time.
And if that wasn't sad enough in the end..and then they do all this emotional damage. And if you allow it to continue there will be no reconnection /reconciliation if that's what some one wants. You just end up resenting them even more for all the hurt and pain they've caused. It's all the more you end up having to get passed.
The anger phase is necessary.
It's said "Aww poor them they were in a fog." ::)
Well we aren't and these things they do and say are in most cases unforgivable.
All the whole thing is about is money in the end. They are not interested in any sense of family or love or support. The loss of an intact family they couldn't care less about. They don't give a damn about that. NONE of that matters to them. They only want money.
If you cannot figure out why they are doing something a certain way that makes no sense to get them to their freedom and happiness faster whatever it is it's probably involves control. Hence not providing needed information.
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If you cannot figure out why they are doing something a certain way that makes no sense to get them to their freedom and happiness faster whatever it is it's probably involves control. Hence not providing needed information.
This. 1000 times this!
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Found online written by a guy:
You hear about this no contact rule thing…your friends say is a great idea for you right now since the break up..
You’d rather…
Pick up that phone and text him that you miss him…
Go on Facebook to see what he’s doing and who he’s hanging out with …
“Accidentally” bump into him at his favorite bar as if, “wow I didn’t expect to see you here!”
But I’m here to tell you: these are all really bad ideas.
Look Sexy Confident lady, there’s a reason why people are talking about the no contact rule. It works. The more time you have away from the guy that broke your heart, the more you can get your head straight and figure out what you really want. Maybe you want to get back together. Maybe you don’t. But you won’t know until you’ve had some time away
I know you’re trapped in heartbreak hell right now, but the first thing you’ve got to do is heal yourself. Learn how with my Winning Him Back program.
What is the No Contact Rule?
Okay, let me break it down for you: with the no contact rule, you go 21 days without interacting
No calls.
No texts.
No face-to-face.
No Instagram likes.
Does it work? Look, I’ve coached hundreds of women — and men — and when we’re dealing with a breakup, I have never seen anything good come of staying in touch with an ex right after the split.
Either it makes the woman want him more…even if they’re not a good fit…
Or the man has no incentive to miss her and woo her back.
However, I’ve seen amazing results with women who could commit to that 3 weeks following the no contact rule. These women had time to clear their heads and really consider what they wanted.
Some realized that they were mooning over the wrong man. Once they realized that and let him go, they found the real love they’d been looking for.
Others had time and space to realize that this man was worth fighting for. The men also had a chance to realize what a good thing they’d given up. Those folks got back together and have even stronger relationships than they did before.
Either way, you’re better off for having some mental and emotional distance from this man. Let’s look at a few other benefits of following the no contact rule.
1. You Win Your Power Back
Following the no contact rule puts the power back in your hands.
When a guy dumps you, you lose your power in the relationship. After all, he made the decision to end things. You had no say in the matter.
If you keep in contact, you might be obsessing over him and your relationship, which also takes power away from you.
But if he starts sniffing around, wanting you back, now’s your chance to get that control of the situation.
I’m not encouraging a power play between you and your ex, but I am saying that you need to regain control of your mind and heart, and then set the tempo for things if you do reconcile.
Following the no contact rule allows you to busy your mind with other things so that you’re not focused on him and what he’s doing. You’re not wondering if he wants you back.
If he’s trying to get back together, taking those three weeks shouldn’t change that fact. Honestly, it should make him want you more because he had to wait. You’re essentially communicating: “I’m open to talking about things, but I need some space to work through my feelings. Be patient with me.”
Suddenly, you’ve got the power.
2. You Allow Yourself Time to Heal
Consider your relationship like a drug. If you want to break your addiction, you detox. You go cold turkey. Eventually, those drugs work themselves out of your system and you can function normally again.
This man is your drug. You’re used to having him in your life and in your heart, so right after a breakup, it’s understandable that you can’t imagine moving forward without him. But that might be the best move for you.
Your first and foremost goal right now should be to heal that heartbreak. You can’t do that if you’re still talking to him or scrolling through his Facebook feed.
Even if you do ultimately get back together, you still need to heal. Because the way this relationship was working…wasn’t working. Things need to change. You need to rip out the walls and rebuild on your foundation.
You might need to reflect on how you were in the relationship and make some changes moving forward. He might, too.
Having time away gives you the opportunity to see things clearly. You might realize that you were selfish, and then you can work on learning to be a better partner.
You might realize this relationship was destined to go nowhere, and you can learn to be whole on your own so that you are open to finding real and sustainable love.
Don’t rush it. Take this time for you. Journal. Talk to friends. Cry. It’s all part of the healing process.
3. You Let New Energy In
Create positive energy simply by taking your focus off your relationship.
There’s a lot of negative energy surrounding a breakup. You’re sapped. Unable to eat. Your immune system weakens. You can’t sleep.
The longer you put your attention on this man, the breakup, and what went wrong, the more that negative energy seeps in. You’re far from your normal Sexy Confident self.
Adhering to the no contact rule, on the other hand, dispels that negative energy and gives you a chance to feel whole again.
When you’re not constantly waiting for the sound of his text, you can put your attention on other things. You can get back to activities you enjoyed before your relationship (your tennis game is looking pretty rusty; why not start there?) and spend time with friends you maybe have been neglecting a bit.
4. You Kill The Fantasy of a The Perfect Relationship
Look, I’ve gotta be honest. I think the whole fairytale genre and romcom industry has done women a disservice. They paint a false picture of what love and relationships should be like, and make it too easy for women to build fantasies around their actual relationships.
When those fantasies fracture, you’re left in pain.
The reality is that this guy isn’t perfect. He may, in fact, not be the guy for you. I know you don’t want to hear that right now (I deliver hard truths), but it’s better to kill that fantasy and get to what’s below it so that you can come face to face with reality.
It probably won’t look the way you want it to, but at least you’re not seeing love through rose-colored glasses anymore.
5. You Stop Reliving Your Mistakes Over and Over Again
“If I hadn’t yelled at him that one time, we’d still be together…”
“I slept with him too soon…”
“I shouldn’t have ordered that hamburger in front of him. He’s vegan for chrissakes!”
I know that you’re probably spinning your wheels, recounting every mistake you made in this relationship. You’re beating yourself up about it, sure that you’re the reason things ended badly.
Look, I’m not saying you were 100% innocent in the demise of your relationship, but replaying your reel of mistakes isn’t doing you any good.
Following the no contact rule helps you step out of that self-critical hamster wheel to see the bigger picture. Whether you made mistakes or not, the plain and simple truth just might be that you weren’t meant to be.
I know it sounds like BS, but think about it: if you’re meant to be with one amazing person for the bulk of your life, it’s going to be a bit of a challenge to find him. I know you wanted this guy to be the one…but he might not have been.
So cut yourself some slack.
6. You Give Yourself Time to Grieve
The five stages of grief after a breakup.
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance
At first, probably where you are right now, you’re in denial. Things aren’t really over. He just needs to realize how amazing you are. Am I right?
Or maybe you’re already angry. You have a lot you want to say to him (and none of it polite).
Maybe you’re ready to fix things, to bargain to make the pain go away.
You might be in a deep funk, unable to leave your couch.
You’re probably not yet to acceptance, so we’ll leave that aside for now until after you adhere to the no contact rule. But in each of these stages, following the no contact rule can only benefit you. You need to take time to grieve and to work through the subsequent stages of the process.
You will let go of your anger. You will realize that bargaining isn’t necessary. You will start to see the sun again. And yes, eventually, you will accept the breakup. I can’t tell you how long it will take you to work through all of this. It’s different for everyone. But I can tell you that you absolutely will have to work through the grieving process. There’s no getting around it.
Whether you get back together or not, you have to first grieve what is no more.
7. It Stops You From Looking Desperate
Resist the urge to contact him for 3 weeks.
When you contact your ex a lot after a breakup, do you realize how that makes you look?
Desperate.
I know you think you’ve got to tell him how you feel right now, but please believe me: you’re not in the right frame of mind to do so. And he’s probably not in the right space to hear it.
Have a little dignity. Respect yourself. Do whatever it takes to not contact him for those three weeks so that you don’t reek of desperation.
Many years ago, I dated someone for about two months. I ended things …and she texted me every night for a week after the breakup.
If there ever were a chance that I wanted to get back with her, every text she sent was just another reason not to even consider it. She came off as, frankly, needy and pathetic, and any attraction I’d previously felt for her was gone.
8. You Remember: Life is Good, Even Without Your Ex
Being in a relationship feels good, doesn’t it? Scientific studies show that couples in a relationship are happier and less stressed.
So as soon as you find yourself out of a relationship, it’s natural to assume that life sucks.
Only…you weren’t always in a relationship. You had interests and a social circle before him. You went out. You did things.
Yes, it will take a while to get back into the groove of your old hobbies and habits, but following that no contact rule can expedite the process and remind you that you don’t need a man in your life.
9. You Can Find Yourself Again…and Your Identity
You can’t find yourself unless you give yourself space.
Many women sorta…lose themselves in a relationship. They spend so much time with a man that they start to forget their own identity.
If that describes you, you’re far from alone, but it’s time to use a map to find yourself again.
If you remove your ex from the equation…
What do you enjoy doing?
Who do you like spending time with?
What personality quirks can shine through?
It’s only natural that we change a little when we have a partner. We might subdue one aspect of our personality (like dancing around the house naked) in an effort to align more with what we think that person wants.
The truth is: the right man will want you to be authentic. He won’t want the watered-down version of you. He’ll want you on full-blast.
So if you haven’t been turning up the volume of Radio You, look at this no contact period as the perfect opportunity to do just that.
Conclusion:
I don’t want you to think of this no contact rule as a game to win him back. The purpose of taking this time away from your ex is totally and completely for you.
You are absolutely worth the time and energy it will take during those three weeks to figure out what you really want.
It may be this guy.
It may not be this guy.
But either way, you need to assess and own your feelings about the relationship as well as about yourself in general to determine what comes next for you.
You might need more than three weeks, and that’s fine. Take as long as you need. Because it’s your heart, and only you can determine what it wants.
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If things are getting way too crazy to try to make any sense of..more often than not you got an MLcer who's trying to control either what you do or don't do. If their mouth is open they are lying. They play on your emotions. They cause this sh!tstorm then cry when it rains. Then want you to feel sorry for them.
The only way to save your sanity is to go no contact.
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Bump
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bump
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Definitely working for me post divorce.
No point talking to anyone who has no basic respect or concern for your thoughts or life.
His loss truly....I'm a decent person who was a good friend and a pretty good wife who never tried to hurt him and the only person who knew those 20 years, and the rather lovely man he used to be.
And lets me focus on my recovery from the tsunami he unleashed!
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Good Treasur good for you.
It is truly his loss. Were any of us perfect?..no but neither are they.
You sure do have that right, they have no basic respect or concern for our life or what we might have to say to them anyway. They aren't going to listen.So why waste the energy?
This is something I wish I had done right off the bat on 2011. I would have saved myself so much heartache.
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And the scientific reason why contact can hurt us...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
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That article makes sense.
Also I've read people can get trauma bonded to the person who caused the trauma.
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Found online..more like a boyfriend/girlfriend break up..same basic idea.
The No Contact Rule
Whether you want to get over him or get him back … there is one thing you need to do. You need to make a clean break and cut off all communication with him. You need to follow the no contact rule. I’m sure you’ve heard about this before… and for good reason, it works!
I get e-mails almost daily from women telling me they started following the no contact rule and now their ex is begging for them back! (Whether they should take him back or not is a different story …)
After a breakup, your ex is essentially heroin. He is a drug and you are a junkie and you’ll do anything to get your fix even though you know it’s terrible for you.
Maybe he broke up with you … you are in literal agony… then he messages you a few days later wanting to get together, and boom! You’re high and it feels amazing. But then he’s gone again and you go through withdrawal. But then he texts you! Ahh, sweet relief … again followed by crushing disappointment.
He can give you a your “fix” through many means- calls, texts, face time, snapchats, tweets , meeting for coffee, meeting for some in-between the sheets action.
Just like any junkie, you need to detox in order to recover. And the best way to detox is to quit cold turkey. You will never move on with him right there in front of you. You also will ruin your chances of getting back together and making it last this time.
When a relationship ends, all the reasons it ended are still there. The issues didn’t magically repair themselves. If you get back together because you miss each other nothing will be different and you’ll just go through the same cycle of breaking up and making up… and this can go on for years! Who has that kind of time to waste?
Having a no-contact period will give you perspective and clarity, and these two things give you power. They give you the power to choose what is best for you. Maybe you and your ex will get back together … maybe not. But the answer is definitely not if you don’t go through a period of no contact.
What does no contact mean?
It means no contact. I recommend a period of at least four weeks. Yes, I know that can feel like an eternity, but it works if you work it.
During the no contact period, you are to have zero contact with your ex:
No texts
No calls
No Facebook messages (and no liking his status updates or commenting)
No Snapchats
No tweets
No going out of your way to stage an “accidental” run-in with him
No responding when he contacts you
No going places you think he might be
No stalking his social accounts (OK, this technically isn’t making “contact” but it’s just as self-sabotaging, so we’ll through that in)
(For a more in-depth discussion on the no contact rule, make sure to read this article: Everything You Need to Know About the No Contact Rule)
Now that we’ve discussed why you need to do it, let’s talk about exactly why it works.
Reasons Why the No Contact Rule Always Works:
1.Gives You Space to Detox
“Growth is painful. Change is painful. But nothing is as painful as staying stuck somewhere you don’t belong.” – Mandy Hale
A breakup can be a highly emotional experience, you need time and space to detox from it all. You need to feel your feelings, you need to mourn, and you need to just be with yourself.
It’s a process. And this process will be interrupted if your ex keeps coming in and out of your life. Don’t fool yourself: this will mess with your head.
It doesn’t mean he’s trying to mess with you intentionally. He’s probably also hurting and he misses you and he wants to make sure you’re OK.
Engaging with him is the surest way to not be OK. You need time to process.
2. It will give you perspective
Where feelings are involved, it’s almost impossible to be objective. You need the flames of the feelings to simmer down before you can start to see things clearly.
With a little bit of distance, you’ll be able to see where things went wrong. Breakups usually have a surface reason and a real reason. A relationship doesn’t unravel overnight, it happens steadily over time and is the result of a buildup of problems, resentment, and negativity.
You didn’t break up because you had a big fight … you had a big fight because there was a lot happening beneath the surface causing the relationship to disintegrate, and this manifested as a big fight, or maybe several fights.
There were underlying issues — you may not even know what those issues are until you step outside of it. Distance will give you objectivity. This is impossible to obtain when you’re in a highly emotional state.
3. It will help you get over him
As they say… time heals. But as I say, it isn’t a passive process, it’s active. Time won’t heal anything if you continue to see and speak to your ex. The combination of time and space is what heals.
The no-contact period gives you time to go through the stages of grief, and this is a necessary part of healing. You can’t get over him if he’s right there in front of you. All you’ll focus on is how badly you want him and how much you miss him … and not on whether he’s the right guy for you, which is what you should be thinking about.
You may discover unexpected things. Maybe you notice that you actually feel happier and more like yourself without him in the picture.
The point is, you will never extinguish your feelings for him if he’s right there lighting the candle every time it blows out.
4. You can open yourself up to other guys
You might not be ready to date at this moment, but you’ll be better able to see opportunities when your ex isn’t blocking your view.
When he’s out of the picture, you open up space for someone else to step in. Even if you don’t actually pursue anything, you will be better able to see what’s out there.
You may find you get excited about the prospect of dating someone new… of being in a healthier relationship.
And I just want to share a quick cautionary tale. Many moons back, I was entangled in a toxic relationship … and was devastated when my toxic partner broke up with me, although I could clearly see that it wasn’t working. He suggested we go through a period of three weeks of no contact. After that, we would reassess.
Three weeks?! That’s like an eternity! I felt like I physically wouldn’t be able to function without him in my life, I didn’t know how I would survive.
The beginning was tough, but soon enough I started to feel really good, I started feeling almost like myself again. I felt free and like a huge weight has been lifted. And in an unexpected twist, I started dating someone new. He just kind of plopped into my life and he was wonderful. He was nice and normal and stable and so, so sweet. But almost as if my love life was rigged with an alarm, the second I was happy and moving on, Mr. Toxic Ex swooped right back in. He missed me. He needed me. He wanted to see me. And so I gave in … because I couldn’t handle the hardest part of the no contact rule… the part where he reaches out to you.
Long story short, I ended up getting back together with Toxic and it was a huge mistake. The second breakup was even more devastating and did a huge number on me. Don’t make this mistake!
5. You avoid the endless on/off relationship cycle
You might think it’s no big deal to meet up with your ex for a drink … or to show up at his door when he drunk dials you at 2 am … but these are massive mistakes.
For one, you risk getting into what I call a post-relationship relationship, which I consider to be the worst type of relationship. You talk sometimes, hang out sometimes, but you’re in relationship no-mans-land.
None of the issues ever get solved. You get into a pattern of breaking it off, missing each other, getting together, feeling high on infatuation, realizing (again) that it isn’t working, breaking it off, and repeating the cycle. This has toxic written all over it.
You need a break. You need to process. You need to move on. If you really want him back, you may mistakenly think that you’ll have a better chance if you go to him when he wants to see you but the opposite is true.
You’ll have a better chance of getting him back if you move on, if you heal yourself. If it didn’t work, it won’t work unless something significant changes … and change takes time and takes work. Missing someone isn’t enough for a relationship to last.
6. Gives you the chance to put the pieces of your life back together
Think of yourself as Humpty Dumpty after his great fall. You need to put yourself back together.
You need to get back in touch with who you were. It’s easy to get lost in a relationship, especially a bad relationship with all its drama and highs and lows and fights and makeups.
Chances are things were bad for a while, and chances are it had you feeling really bad. You will keep pouring salt into the proverbial wound if you stay in touch with him.
You need to spend time working on your relationship with yourself. This is the key to having successful relationships with others. And this just won’t be possible if you’re still in close contact with him.
7. You need to remember you can live without him
I know how you feel. It literally feels like he’s oxygen and you will cease to exist without him. But you will go on! And life will go on. And you can live without him. You might even find you live better without him.
But you won’t know that unless you experience life without him. You need to re-learn what you’re made of, you need to smile again without him. You need to stand on your own and sure enough, you’ll find that you can function, possibly even better than before.
MORE: Why the No Contact Rule Works Every Time
8. Prevents you from seeing what he’s up to… because sometimes you really don’t want to know
So let’s say you don’t follow the sage advice in this article and you stay in touch with your ex … and he starts seeing another girl. How does that feel?
The answer: crushing.
The only way you’ll know what he’s up to is if you don’t follow the no contact rule, or if you do, but you break the rule within the rule, which is not to check up on him on social media.
Even if he isn’t the guy for you, seeing him with another girl will be profoundly painful. If you follow the no contact rule, you spare yourself from this sort of agony. You keep the focus on you, not on him.
9. It gives him the space to miss you
Really, the no contact rule is about you and about re-connecting to yourself. An added bonus is that it will make your ex miss you.
But please don’t use it as a means to get him back. Can it work? Yes, absolutely, it does all the time. But it will only really work if you do the work. As in, you work on yourself during this time and gain all the benefits of the no contact period.
We all have a tendency to idealize the past, to romanticize what we don’t have anymore. When you’re not a presence in his life, this is what will naturally happen. But again, it won’t work out unless things change and change starts from within.
It starts with you because you’re the only person that you can control. So take the time to work on yourself, to get back to yourself, to just be by yourself, and if he reaches out when the no contact period is up (minimum of four weeks), then you may have a shot the second time around.
Final thoughts
I’m not saying it’s impossible to get back together with an ex. I mean, I married an ex boyfriend, so I’m all for making it work the second time around! But in order to get him back, you have to first get over him. It may sound counterintuitive, but that’s just the truth of the matter.
And if he doesn’t want to get back together after a period of no contact… then at least you’ve already started the moving on process. You may even discover that you don’t want to get back together with him after your period of no contact. No matter what the outcome, it is always in your favor and that is why the no contact rule always works.
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Also if anyone wants to do any posting about ways of reconnecting or what's involved in breaking no contact..please by all means, do some research online and start another thread. :)
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Actually, that's a really interesting idea, init....maybe one for the vets....good ways to break NC, what made you do so, or how to judge if you should respond if they break NC?
I'm not standing, nothing left to stand for. But I loved my h and would want to be kind if he hit the buffers. I don't expect to ever hear from him again and have no intention of contacting him, so more intellectual interest for me rather than useful. But when I have thought about it, my criteria is pretty simple....can't talk to anyone who shows no respect or interest in my thoughts or life, xh included. No benefit to me in doing so. Not sure how I'd know if that had changed in him though, what someone would say or do even....probably should be grateful it is unlikely to be a leftover MLC challenge for me :)
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I am pushing for the best no contact I can. I will answer if he asks a question about the kids but anything else he will gets crickets. He seems to have this fantasy that we can all be one big happy family and I have had enough. Now, if he was to contact me and it was pleasant then I will go with the flowbut if it turns fowl again then we will proceed as we were. Unfortunately, I can’t break all ties with him like I would like to. I am like you treasur and am not standing anymore. He has crossed to many lines and I’m not sure I can go back to that but for the kids sake I would like to be friendly with each other.
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I think there can come a point when NC or very Dim is essential for your own wellbeing and sanity. Or actually just necessary to accept what is gone and futile to hope for. I wish I'd done it much earlier and used my L more actually bc that would have also saved me from seeing some of the horror of what my xh became...easier to keep my nice memories!...but difficult with a typical MLCers approach to divorce. (And sigh, why DO they make it so f'ing hard... ::) )
I was musing on your standing comment, OHM.
I guess the only thing I can see to stand for is a tiny possibility that my xh may come through this and need to speak with me to find his own peace with what he did. No big reconnection, just a kind of small shared closure or acknowledgement. Really a very tiny possibility given his behaviour to date and the HUGE complex mess he made. I'd hope that were that to ever happen in years to come, I might find enough grace to respond appropriately for the sake of the human I loved so much for so long.
Maybe those of you with kids just have a 1% stand like that for a better future relationship with the kids? Idk...but it is hard to envisage at our stage OHM I think and far away so probably fine to let God take care of that one :)
Sigh...just having a quick moment of disbelief and missing the rather nice chap who used to be my h ???
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NC is essential to your own well being and sanity.
Closure?
You will not get one if he's a narcissist. And even if you got something from him. Some small hint self awareness or self reflection. I'm not sure if you could believe him.
You and what you have gone through?
You have to make your own closure and be at peace with that.
Yeah One Hot Mess..it is a fantasy he's buying into. One big happy divorced family ::) maybe years and years down the road?
But in getting divorced at this age? In my case there would not be enough time that could go by that I would ever see that happening.
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The h I knew was not a narcissist, init, not full of rage and destruction. . What he is now, I can't say, so yes I have no expectation of closure from him. I suppose many of us keep that tiny 1% hope that if the MLC process does its job, there may be some kind of peace for them to find and maybe make, if only with their kids.
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In order for them to do that to find or make that peace with the kids would have to involve some admission of truth about themselves
Some fault or flaw or what happened. Why they thought that throwing the family over for some other person was worth it.
My story doesn't involve only that.
Some kind of confession in some sense..
Again in my case the ex won't ever do that..he won't tell them how he abused me...I know what I would tell them .
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It's the holidays folks give yourself some peace and take a break.
They love to stir things up around the holidays
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Mine doesn’t. Another anomaly. This is my fourth holiday season without him, And our wedding anniversary falls in this time. Except for one email in early December the year that I moved out of state, I have never heard a word from him during the holidays. Nothing but radio silence as usual.
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Well that's good at least you get some peace Nas.
Some of lbs 's with the high energy crazier mlcers might not.
Not easy having an anniversary around the holidays.
I'm on my 5th Thanksgiving without the ex. :)
Won't miss him a bit. I won't have to listen to him critzise how the turkey came out. Along with whatever else wasn't perfect on the table.
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We don't celebrate Thanksgiving but I'm already thinking of Christmas. My H has not written to me for any of them. I like what you say In It, you won't have to listen to him complain. That's so true! I won't have to hear mine complain either, and moan about what's wrong instead of what's right, and all of us wondering if he's going to be happy that day or not! It's going to be peaceful for sure without him.
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My X used to get so angry about Christmas. He hated Christmas... And told everyone.. I finally said why do you hate it so bad.. You purchase no gift.. You do not decorate.. Sometimes you cook. But you hate it.. You poor thing so you have to spend time with your family.. You poor poor thing.
I have been NC since BD. But then had no choice but to contact him.. His irs issue they were trying to get me to pay. So we talk from Dec to about April of this year.. Not sure what happened but have had nc since then.. His choice.
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Looking4sun
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Christmas is coming.. What would you like?
Do you want chaos and drama? More hurt, pain, mixed messages confusion and tears?
Or something a bit more joyful and peaceful?
If you haven't tried it yet you might want to.
These Mlcers are not going to allow it, or they aren't going to like it..no is a complete sentence. So you have to put your foot firmly down and enforce it. By whatever means possible. Don't reply to the texts or emails, don't answer the phone, do not get together "for old times sake"
It's up to you people.
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I honestly think actions communicate much more clearly than words. Both for us and our spouses.
If we don't want to feel hurt or abused or confused, and we have politely asked people to stop as normal people do and they won't for whatever reason, then all we can do is step away from people who hurt us.
Their actions are communicating too.
I have always believed that NC is for me.
I think many LBS resist it for a while bc they are still concerned about how the MLCer will interpret it.
Until we reach a point where our gut screams that we need to for our own safety and sanity and peace.
If I want a life without lies and cruelty and disrespect, in the end all I can do is reduce my exposure to people who consistently act that way towards me. Anyone, not just an MLC spouse. I don't have to understand why they do in order to say no and step away.
An interesting post from Chump lady about chaos https://www.chumplady.com/2018/12/chaos-the-fourth-channel/. I know not everyone here is a CL fan, but hervtake on the three 'channels' we see in our spouses behaviour has always rung true for me. Rage, selfpity and their own version of twisted charm. And the chaos, omg, the chaos...all those bits of mindf**king drama big and small that make no sense and are so exhausting to deal with. But it isn't OUR chaos. NC, or severely reducing it, is often the only way to stop being what CL calls the 'chaos janitor' for other people's mess...particularly when we LBS usually find we have plenty enough to clear up in our own backyard.
I don't know why so many MLC spouses do it or to what extent it is a conscious act of control or rage. But if you want peace more than chaos - and reading here often for many LBS the desire for peace comes first before the desire for happiness even - reducing your role in any drama or the extent to which it can reach you puts NC on the table as a sensible choice.
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I am definitely a fan of cl. She doesn't sugar coat anything and I think we need that as an lbs. Six months after bd and I knew for sure xh wasn't coming back. Of course I hoped for a long time but I am almost at meh.
I have been NC for a long time and recently have been having contact due to his inability to think for himself , ie, buy gifts for d16. The contact isn't bothering me like it used do, meaning I am not sad for days. But it sure is driving me crazy. Throough his text messages I see that he has not changed or done any work on himself in these last 2.5 years. It is all about him still and he still has no real identity. He is just assuming the ow's identity. Sad really. Whatever.
NC again I hope right after the holidays. And soon enough it'll be Tuesday because meh comes on Tuesday lol
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Well it takes too much effort and work to change Tkys and as long as they have someone else who will put up with their BS it's not going to.
And the focus will always be on them as they have no compassion or empathy or genuine,kind, caring interest in anyone else.
The only interest they have is to see who they can get to react..make a mess and then have someone else clean it up. Create their own storms then cry when it rains. And you are supposed to be there with a shoulder for them to cry on?
Or maybe they use the information they have gathered in getting to know (in their feigned interest) about someone against them. Pretty lousy if you ask me.
Or provoke and voice record you , stalk and harass you or video tape you . Who needs people like that in their life?
Wishing you all a peaceful Joyful Christmas.
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Read some threads this morning who might benefit from doing this.
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I'm not around much anymore, but just wanted to say no contact has been the best thing to ever happen for me. I do not miss the abandoner, nor ever wish to have any type of contact with him.
And, I love this holiday season because it means time to relax and truly enjoy the company of the family and friends, with whom I've been blessed. I cannot wait.
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NC can be bandied around as a phrase, but of course reducing contact or putting some boundaries around it covers a wide range. NC means neither initiating or responding to any kind of contact at all. Which is quite extreme and quite difficult to do for those with shared custody or going through a divorce process when they still share assets like houses.
But
I agree with blessed that NC was a tremendous gift to me.
Looking back I think I eased towards it as I tried to detach and to respond rather than react. Even with a mostly vanisher there were weird communication 'pop ups' or strange 2am emails.
I think I started reducing contact bc I reached a point where trying to deal rationally with my then h was just too exhausting. And the insanity of it all brought me to a point when I just started filing it all as F for Futile. No agreement made could be relied on. Nothing he said could be taken at face value bc he lied about everything pretty much. And my then h simply did not care about what I thought or said at all. He would just do whatever he decided in the moment and then try to gaslight or lie his way out of any previous agreement. I think I eventually got to NC bc I was just exhausted by the insanity of trying to deal with his behaviour tbh. But I think I thought at the time that NC was a final act of giving up hope for any kind of reconnection or any day when my h would be normal again...so I probably couldn't do it until I was so exhausted that I simply no longer cared much about what was going on with him if that makes sense.
Looking back, I honestly wish in my situation that I had chosen to do it much earlier. Or at least, if not full NC to go very Dark indeed.
What NC gave me though?
I did not realise how I had adapted to living with a sense of unsafety and anticipating the next WTF hand grenade until I had NC.
I did not realise how every weird email or random event like watchgate or policegate (TM) lol had kept me hooked to his rollercoaster even just a bit or had triggered a 'why/what is he doing' kind of activity in my head bc I was speculating in order to assess the level of risk/threat.
I did not realise that contact, any kind of contact, kept him in my life/head virtually and vice versa.
I did not realise that contact, even sporadic, fed my grief, expectations and disbelief.
I do remember the moment though when I knew beyond any doubt that I hated living feeling as I did and that the crazy nasty folks showed no sign of running out of steam, so if I wanted a life without crazy nasty, NC was my only sane choice.
I still think that for me it was a wise sane choice.
Looking back, if I had been able to emotionally detach quicker and more effectively, I may not have needed NC...but I couldn't, the crazy s$it was damaging me profoundly so NC was a good choice bc it took me off the battlefield. And life feels a lot more normal off the battlefield ;)
In my case, my xh said he wanted me to let him go.
I reached a point when I did with as much grace as I could and then got frustrated bc he wouldn't actually entirely go away lol. With NC - and I changed addresses, emails, phone etc - I got to make a choice for me, a little control finally. And if my xh ever feels that this is not what he wanted - and tbh even in the loopy days, he didn't plan that we would never talk again or think I would shut the door firmly on him strange as that sounds in the circumstances, he actually said so....well, I guess he gets to learn from his own choices doesn't he?
But NC at its heart I think is that I started caring a great deal about the consequences for me and to shrug my shoulders at the consequences for anyone else. NC is like refusing to even buy a ticket for someone else's circus isn't it? ;)
But my POV is from someone who decided to stop Standing after about 18 months or so.
Perhaps it is different if you are Standing?
Still, I think there are times when going Dark or a short period of NC can be useful to detach a little or calm things down or unhook from the rollercoaster.
NC is maybe a bit like Standing?
Doesn't have to be a fixed rigid life state....can just be a 'today I choose to and tomorrow I might choose differently' thing perhaps?
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PS another realisation linked to NC...I was/am too gobby to drink the STFU smoothie easily and I was too vulnerable bc of other events to not see myself as a victim. Changing both might have reduced the need for NC. And, a weird memory, in contact with my then h between Jan-April 2018 ( when he was quite loopy tbh)...I was very aware that I had not seen him since Oct 2016 or spoken to him for about 6 months I think....he behaved as if we had seen each other quite recently. It was odd. But maybe NC/chronology simply doesn't feel the same to them as it does to us...
I also think with hindsight that reducing contact got much easier when I got more honest with myself about WHY I was initiating or responding. Bc tbh my motivations were often far from objective or clean.
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I went no contact about eight months in, and recommend it for most LBS, especially if they are dealing with an abusive type who has moved out and who is being disrespectful, antagonizing them, or harming them (or they feel could harm them) emotionally or physically.
I want to say, though, that I think some of the MLCers on this forum have some form of mental illness, on the schizophrenia/bipolar specrum.
If you have young children or feel there is a chance you could enlist the help of others around you to get medical attention for your spouse, I would try hard to see the abuse as a symptom of the disease and not give up on trying to get a diagnoses — while in some form of low/no contact.
In other words, do not throw out the baby with the bathwater! Really try to look at your spouse's behavior and personal and family medical history through the lens of known mental illness, and if they match up, don't sit around and wait for them to go through "stages" of MLC. Try to be proactive and use the correct language to get them help — while staying dim/low contact, written only — or at least to protect yourself and your children.
A family/child therapist or your children's school might be inclined to ignore you if you say that you think your spouse is having a crisis. But if you say that you are concerned they have bipolar or schizophrenia, with the correct language, I think that some of them will not ignore, even if their sole motivation is fear of a lawsuit.
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....he behaved as if we had seen each other quite recently. It was odd. But maybe NC/chronology simply doesn't feel the same to them as it does to us...
Treasure this fits with what they say about them losing time & often not being aware of time when in replay. Also what I’ve seen with my xH just in how he makes mistakes in legal documents about when things have happened. He contradicts himself and writes different dates in different places. Also talks to the kids as if they are still the same age as when he walked out over 2 years ago. I can totally imagine xH wouldn’t have a clue how much time we’ve been no contact in his confused foggy state of mind.
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I went no contact about eight months in, and recommend it for most LBS, especially if they are dealing with an abusive type who has moved out and who is being disrespectful, antagonizing them, or harming them (or they feel could harm them) emotionally or physically.
I want to say, though, that I think some of the MLCers on this forum have some form of mental illness, on the schizophrenia/bipolar specrum.
If you have young children or feel there is a chance you could enlist the help of others around you to get medical attention for your spouse, I would try hard to see the abuse as a symptom of the disease and not give up on trying to get a diagnoses — while in some form of low/no contact.
In other words, do not throw out the baby with the bathwater! Really try to look at your spouse's behavior and personal and family medical history through the lens of known mental illness, and if they match up, don't sit around and wait for them to go through "stages" of MLC. Try to be proactive and use the correct language to get them help — while staying dim/low contact, written only — or at least to protect yourself and your children.
A family/child therapist or your children's school might be inclined to ignore you if you say that you think your spouse is having a crisis. But if you say that you are concerned they have bipolar or schizophrenia, with the correct language, I think that some of them will not ignore, even if their sole motivation is fear of a lawsuit.
I agree with you on this but be careful to protect yourself in the process. In my situation, I considered the x had some mental illness early on from his mother’s death and did ask his family for help. Unfortunately, those people took advantage of the situation. The cousin decided to start a relationship with him so he could support her and her family. I then offered up my therapy notes to his therapist to allow them to see both sides of the story hoping to help push them to see what I seen. Unfortunately, he had stopped therapy shortly before that. My therapist agreed something was not right with him and believed this would have helped her colleague to diagnose him. I was able to get the judge to order him into therapy but that backfired too. He went in just bashing me and had his therapist right a note to the judge with all of that info.
When you deal with someone like this, going as no contact as you can is the best thing for you. The mlcer can only get help if they acknowledge that they need help and really want to get help.
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I also want to note here. Going no contact for me and my situation gave us time to calm everything down. After about a year of putting my boundaries in place, we are able to be civil at school functions.last school function, we almost actually had a conversation. It is impossible to go completely no contact with children involved. What I did was refuse text unless an emergency and communicate through email. I had to cut out texting because he couldn’t help himself to bash me every single time. Email makes it more of a business deal and can be used more easily in court if need to. I have a court order that lists in detail exactly when and where we exchange kids. Going no contact helps you not them.
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That's right..you aren't going no contact trying to punish them.
It can give you the peace and the time to get your head on straight and for emotions to get less intense.
If anyone is dealing or trying to deal with the crazy making and hasn't tried NC yet..maybe for the upcoming holiday give yourself the gift of peace and try it.
Yes then maybe you can set how communication is resumed. Email is great because you do have something you can print out and use.
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Not sure this is the right place to mention this...........
During the year husband and I have had lots of contact. Most very positive but planned by me or our children, never him. He was always willing to be a part of the plans but didn't contribute money, just enjoying the FREE food.
Thanksgiving our girls asked him to spend the day with us, his......family (remember that). He agreed. However, he show up at 8 pm. Oldest daughter asked why he was so late. Husband tells her, "I was with my family". I couldn't believe this father of 3 kids would tell all 3 of the kids, he was with his..........FAMILY. Well, who the heck are they? I was beyond angry. Guys, without an explanation I left. I couldn't "play" family with him. I spent the rest of the evening with a friend. Came home the next morning without telling anyone where/who I was with.
Fast forward to Christmas. I texted all 3 of our children (S26, D23 and D20) and told them I would not be available Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. They assume I'm with a male companion, I'm not but didn't tell anyone different. So, dad is making plans to host Christmas at his house for them.
I'm not sure this is the right way to do it but I have to go no contact or maybe dark. He was putting me back in a peace-less place that was becoming dark. My journey started in 2014 and frankly I'm tired. I'm tired of being treated like a nobody and after thought. I thought I was paving the way but maybe he was using me.
Any thoughts, comments or even a 2X4.............help a sister out.
Oh, I went out on a date a couple of weeks ago. Didn't like the guy but he said something that made me think. He asked why someone hasn't scooped me up because I am a beautiful woman. When he looked at me I felt like a woman. For a long time I thought I was invisible. I'm re-examining my worth.
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He is acting this way because he can’t emotionally connect. He is no longer neurotypical. What this means is that if we have emotional — or even etiquette — expectations we are bound to be disappointed.
He is not saying family in the way you or I might. He is just bumbling along. I am a similar timeline to you. I’m sure my ex would be very much like yours is now, just kind of there, unreflectively participating.
And of course you are beautiful! I encourage you to keep dating if it feels right. Big hugs.
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Could be a bunch of reasons from forgetfulness to the kind of regression that means he sees his birth family as 'his family' as opposed to you and your kids as 'his family' now that you are divorced. And as V says, that missing empathy chip that meant he saw no reason to inform anyone but just turn up late. Idk. When you feel calmer, you may want to discuss it with him or with your kids.
What strikes me though is the strength of your feeling and reaction, Yellow. Which is not a criticism just an observation. The strength of it suggests to me that it was about more than just that one incident and represented something important to you. Do you know what that was? Did you have some expectation that has been unmet? Bc of course you had other possible choices ranging from idk yelling at him, showing him the door bc he was late, saying you would not invite him again if he did not meet normal social rules like turning up on time, ignoring it......but you chose to get up and leave without even telling your kids where you were going which tells me you felt very strongly indeed. And now to be unavailable to spend Christmas with your own kids.
Again no criticism, just respecting your truth.
I'd encourage you to breathe and reflect on what your feeling is really about bc your xh broke a big boundary for you didn't he? And, ignoring him for the moment, it is probably healthy for you to be able to at least discuss that openly with your kids who may have no idea what you are feeling.
I suspect fwiw from the cheap seats that your feeling was one built up over a period of time and this was just a 'straw that broke the camels back' moments. Something about feeling used maybe? Or disrespected? Or not much liking who he is now or feeling uncomfortable around him? Or unfinished business old feelings? Idk. But your sense that his presence affects your sense of peace is telling you something useful probably that you might need to work out in order to set different boundaries.
Something made your fight/flight system want to run away....what was it?
Limiting contact - and that is your right of course - is an action to preserve a boundary.
And it is a spectrum from NC through Dark and Dim to contact with specific constraints like place or time or type. Lots of choices there.
But maybe what matters first is figuring out what boundary was broken so you can decide on a better one. If only bc it involves your adult kids and your relationship with them is more important than your xh I'd guess. And bc you can still redesign Christmas in some way that includes your kids, your family, but excludes him if you want to do that.
It's ok to feel how you feel. And it's ok to do whatever you want to do about seeing or not seeing someone who is now your xh. Your kids are adults and can have a separate relationship which does not need to include you.
But looking in from the outside it seems likely that you will feel better if you can figure out how you feel so you can at least discuss it calmly with your kids and share your new boundaries with them. What would bring back that sense of peace, Yellow? Whatever it is, do that and explain it to your kids. Jmo.
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Yellow, I think Treasur and Velika gave really good advice. I would second that telling your kids is very important, and second, I would have told your H straight out what was not acceptable to you.
I suspect that your H turning up at 8pm was a regression, a childish behaviour. His excuse that he was with his family was an immature excuse he thought would get him out of being in the wrong. Like a kid, he might probably needs to be told right out that he was disrespectful and insensitive.
Your kids though are not the problem and they just really want the holidays to be good. We all do even now, but remember when you were young how important these holidays feel and you certainly want to have your parents be part of them. I would talk to your kids about how you felt on Thansgiving night that made you leave. They can't just work it out, we do need to let them know. I say this as someone who used to not say how she was feeling.
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I appreciate everyone's comments. I want the bitter truth rather than a sweet lie.
I think his casual attitude when he arrived. Kindof like THE SPECIAL GUEST is in the building gracing everyone with his presence. He was also somewhat dodgey (is that a word?) with his answers. His lack of accountability to daughter's questions created more internal issues.
On my end...........EXPECTATIONS. I had built a beautiful picture of a a Thanksgiving with our entire family, together. The last Thanksgiving spent together was 2013. I went out of my way to make it special. My feelings were hurt. I felt unappreciated. Not sure if any of this is his fault. It's me not managing expectations. I struggle with this one.
Let's discuss Christmas. I'm not sure I can trust myself to manage expectations so in an effort to protect myself from slipping further into the dark place I removed myself from the equation.
Will I discuss it with husband? I'm not sure at this point. I have been told by many people in hard to read. Husband says I always seem "unconcerned" and show very little emotions. He pr think I'm hard to figure out and I think he's............an immature knucklehead.
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Ok, all of that makes perfect sense.
You thought he acted in an entitled way, more me me and his response to quite reasonable questions was dodgy (yes it is a word lol)....and you also recognise that, reasonably or not, you had some expectations of a type of family Thankgiving that you had put a lot of effort into. So you felt hurt and unappreciated.
And you have the maturity to see that some of this was about you and some of it about his behaviour. Bc worth remembering that it is NORMAL if you invite someone for the day and they turn up at 8pm as if they are doing you a favour, without letting anyone know or being full of heartfelt apologies and a pretty good explanation? You are going to think they are a disrespectful rude a$$hole in normal life right?
I am very sorry that Thanksgiving did not go the way you hoped it would.
So it sounds as if those darned expectations are the killer app for you about Christmas?
Is there an option that allows you to spend time with your kids but excludes having to see your xh, Yellow? Fwiw it sounds as if it might be more useful at least to talk about how you feel with your kids rather than your xh....bc he is currently an immature self-centred MLC knucklehead isn't he?
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You must be a saint because if he showed up at 8 pm on Thanksgiving and it had been me? He would have gotten an earful. Totally inconsiderate of him.
Make your Christmas plans and don't include him.
He might notice or not.
This isn't worth your peace I can tell you that much.
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Would love to be a saint but that ain't happening.
Must admit I probably won't talk to husband. I have to feel safe before I will open up and share. I don't know if I can trust husband so more than likely, it's a no for me dawg.
I have a very good friend that is walking this journey with me. She knew husband pre MLC. She encourage me to open up and talk to husband. She also tell me I have resting 'b' face and that I'm extremely hard to read. Husband may put signals out but since I give no feedback, verbal or otherwise he's unsure how to proceed. I will proceed with extreme caution. That my nature.
As for Christmas, I'll probably stay home and enjoy the day alone. Our children can hang out with their dad. Daughters live with me so I see them daily. Son live with his dad but may have to work. I would love to skip the holidays. Bah humbug from Texas!!!!!!!
I see so much back and forth movement and frankly, I'm just tired.
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Tired is ok, my friend.
I spent the Christmas of 2018 ignoring it. I lit the fire, bought nibble food I like, read a good book, went for a long walk and watched a couple of non Christmas movies. And that is ok.
It sounds as if you just need a break. Do that, my friend. It's ok to put what you need first.
PLenty of time to figure out new boundaries for the new year :)
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Definitely need a break. From husband and toxic mother. She is another story.......
I appreciate everyone's comments. IRL friends have no clue what it's like going thru this.
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Yellow, it's so true that RL people have no clue what it's like for us to go through CHristmas. Thank goodness we can come here to talk.
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Yeah someone told me I have resting B face
I came back with.."Yeah less wrinkles that way." ;D
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That's funny In It. At my age I'm not sure I care.
Well folks thank you very very much. How do lbs maneuver MLC without a place like this?
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Well some of us dealt with extremes of whatever this (or that) was. Back when I first posted, I didn't get quite the same advice I give out.
But the back and forth thing you mention and being tired? You are not required to turn yourself into a total exhausted mess to try to deal with this. That's when NC will serve you.
Most articles I have read online advise going NC right after any break up. I guess it's up to each individual to decide whats best for them. But after you have had enough of the mind games, mixed messages, monster, lies, behavior and everything else? This is the one thing you can do for you.
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I went no contact right after bd. It's been 4 years. I like my life now. I dont worry about him at all. My kids know not to speak of him in my presence. Every once in a while he peeks his head out or reaches out to me via email. He doesnt have my cell number. If he asks a question I sometimes answer but most of the time I dont. I just can't handle this situation with any contact.
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Good for you em! You saved yourself a lot of emotional devastation and heartache. None of this is worth any ones sanity and peace.
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In it
Yes I did. Until he starts to act like an adult, I have know interest in him. Every few months he trys up act like a parent to my 11 year. I'm a parent 24/7. So until he can do that. I told him dont speak to me. He said he is afraid of me. I told him you should be. Lol.
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LMAO!
That's exactly it! These are grown people, who apparently don't want to act like it. And that does not mean you have to try to "be there" or fix it for them. Fear or respect, whatever works.
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I went no contact right after bd. It's been 4 years. I like my life now. I dont worry about him at all. My kids know not to speak of him in my presence. Every once in a while he peeks his head out or reaches out to me via email. He doesnt have my cell number. If he asks a question I sometimes answer but most of the time I dont. I just can't handle this situation with any contact.
Good on you.
Looking back, I wish i had done the same. At least for a couple of months to catch my breath.
Don't think it would have made any difference to his path but it might have made a big difference to mine.
Are you divorced, em? How did you hand,d that, the financials or kid visitation with very limited contact? Bc some folks reading this might find ideas on that helpful?
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Yes em.. did NC afford you the time you needed to heal some then get your head on straight in order to deal with any legalities etc?
In hindsight Treasur I believe the same way and I'm glad you put it in words. I would have benefited greatly by NC right after BD and D in 2010 - 2011. My life may have been totally different had I just stopped all contact. Certainly would have done a whole lot less damage to myself that way.
I do believe that's true NC isn't going to effect these MLcers one way or another on their "journey". It would however be very wise of us to protect ourselves from them and whatever their problem is.
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Yes. I'm divorced since june 2018. I dont think he cares either way if i talk to him. He shows no signs of caring about my 11 year old daughter. No contact was my only I could cope with this mess. And I think the same goes for my daughter.
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So anyone reading this? There you have it. Em went NC to protect herself, and he still is in some kind of contact with her from time to time.
Strong, smart, wise woman you are em. You kept your dignity and self respect. You are a wonderful example for your daughter as to what to do if this ever (God forbid) happens to her.
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In it.
Thank you for the compliment. Its nice to hear. I dont always feel good about how I handled things. But I will never be his 2nd choice. Easier to stay away.
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You are welcome. Yep I have said quite a few times. If there is someone else in the picture, you take yourself out.
I'm sure you handled things just fine. Nothing to feel any guilt or any other negative emotion about.
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But I will never be his 2nd choice. Easier to stay away.
Yes, exactly yes!!!
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I'm trying to follow this. Been trying for a year now. The longest I've made it was two months but I spoke to him one more time after I found out he got remarried and I think that will be the last time. I don't have any respect for their marriage but speaking to him sets me back. It doesn't give any relief but more anxiety especially seeing as he hasn't changed for the better at all since BD. Not one move forward, in fact, I'd say he's gotten angrier and meaner. No idea how OW deals with him. It's all still I, I, I and me, me, me. Oh, punching bag picked up the phone? Let's throw as many hits as possible!
I was reading Anon's thread and her ex reminded me of mine. Minimizing the damage they've done to you, acting like it's nothing and you should be over it. Pretending they're on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous but still feel the need to call or text you endlessly. Gives you a false sense of hope when really these clowns just seem to get some kind sick, twisted pleasure out of playing games with you. It messes with your mind because you want to think they care when really it seems more logical that they just pity you atm and are probably even laughing at you because they know you still have feelings for them. Then you feel self-hatred, or at least I do, for giving two ***** about them. Mine's a master manipulator. He STILL has a picture of us up as his FB profile and he's MARRIED to the OW! Why? I know he doesn't care about me, so why? Game player. Better to just let them be and if thinking their lives are terrible and they're unhappy helps you move forward, THINK THAT. Doesn't matter anyway. Nutjob might be happy when he's with OW but that problem he's desperately trying to run away from (his parents' high expectations and rejections) will have definitely only gotten worse. Now his whole family looks at him like he's beneath them. Enjoy! Let OW be his sounding board now.
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That's the whole thing.
You talking to him just sets YOU back. Upsets YOU.
You do not need to continue to do that.
If you feel worse after talking to someone than better...they gotta go.
It is not required of anyone to put themselves through an emotional wringer over this.
Cut them loose , drop the rope, let go.
So you just have to stop doing it.This is about you, not them.
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Imho it is a marker of returning to being emotionally healthy when you can a) identify things that are damaging to you and b) reduce your exposure to those things. You don't need to understand why to know if something is bad for you. You just have to care about not taking the damage more than you care about what you might gain or avoid by doing so. The squirmy bits that force us all to get really honest with ourselves which is not always an easy thing to do.
In my case hoping that my h would return to normal if I did or said x or y....
And refusing to accept that he simply did not care what I thought or felt or what happened to me...
And not wanting to believe that he was the kind of person who could ever do x or y...
I did not want to accept these new realities so I kept exposing myself to further damage, shock and pain. Once I could and did, limiting contact was the only logical way to protect myself. And then the less contact I had, the less I saw the point of it so it became easier to do.
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It's strange how most of us instinctively are lead into no contact. Nothing in my life prepared me for a husband that would/could do what he did. Looking back in amazed that I was able to disconnect from the madness without knowing about MLC.
Husband and I went almost 5 years with absolutely no contact to periodically seeing each other a couple of times each month. I'm not sure which is harder, contact or no contact. With contact you see the lack of growth, unrepentant spirit and/or self-centered. You may also see glimpses of the wonderful person you loved and married. CONFUSION!!!!!!!!!!
My situation is working out. Husband is having his FOO at HIS house for Christmas. Our children will be with him and I was invited. I'm not going. They all assume I'm going with a male friend. I didn't
correct them.
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Good for you refusing the invitation.
Let them wonder yellow rose. None of his business anyway.
No need to play happy divorced family.
Excellent post as usual Treasur.
When you have had enough you will put an end to it. There is something to the phrase "what you allow continues."
It's not necessary to allow them access to you so they can inflict as much pain as possible. Lie, manipulate, be abusive. Then stand there like they haven't done anything.
Why they bother maintainng contact at all after treating some one so poorly still escapes me.. Kinda sick actually.
Better question is why would we want them to?
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Well done, Yellow, good healthy call.
So, on to the second bit of the equation....what ARE you going to do with your Free Self-Centred Christmas Day? Lounge with your favourite food and a good movie? Spend time with a friend you really like? Volunteer someplace that needs cheerful hands? Do something wacky and un-Christmassy like a long hike somewhere beautiful? Having been a mum and wife for so long, I bet you have rarely had many times when you can just say well, ignoring what anyone else wants/needs, what do I feel like doing?
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Yeah, I guess if you keep asking for it you're going to get it. Best to let sleeping dogs lie. My x found a way around nc by contacting my siblings to give him updates on what I do. My brother refuses to stop talking to him but doesn't know everything that happened and I'm not inclined to tell him so it's whatever. I know what you mean YellowRose about nc or no nc. It's hard watching them metamorphize from your spouse into a blowfly, on top of the abuse they heap upon you but the worry of not knowing what is happening is bad too. Logically I know none of that is my business anymore and I can forget about him for long periods of time especially when I'm "galing" ;D but it's those moments when I'm all alone with nothing to do that I think "what is he doing," "is he really happy," "how did I lose half my life like this?" Then it's time to come here to rant and rave.
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Yeah I kind of like the phrases:
You cannot keep dancing with the devil and wonder why you are still in hell.
And
If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.
It's not easy to come to terms and make peace with you threw so much of your life away on a jerk. If anything I came away with the lesson of knowing what I didn't want in a person or another relationship.
Once you stop focusing on them with your thoughts, it gets easier
And yes this is the place to come and vent.
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Penelope I went years without any contact. So many dark days that I felt unworthy and less than any woman. It's hard.
Husband was at my house last night. D20 made home made pizza, chocolate chip cookies and I had a glass of wine. He's pleasant enough and we enjoy each other company. He's starting to ask questions about my interest. However, I'm not a person that share. It feels intrusive and makes me uncomfortable. I give him minimum information.
I've noticed he seems to find a way to get an invite to my house. I'm OK with that since restoration is my goal.
Contact..........dark.........dim..........??????? This is hard folks.
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Well if restoration is your goal then I guess you are doing the right thing for you. If you are unwilling to share anything with him I'd say you have some trust issues?
I'm not sure why your D feels it's ok to invite him over unless she runs it by you first? Or did she?
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In it she ran it by me first. I said it was OK.
Definitely have trust issues. Husband is law enforcement so I'm always afraid he's going to use something against me. He know judges and lawyers personally.
I have never been a person to share and I don't like to talk about me. It feels very uncomfortable.
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Ugh Law enforcement..yeah I personally would steer clear of him.
Trust issues create intimacy issues.
I would think you would have a more fulling emotional relationship with someone you could open up with. If you have fear of having him using things against you, I would think it's really hard to feel loved that way.