Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses

Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: OffRoad on July 13, 2019, 12:35:41 PM

Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 13, 2019, 12:35:41 PM
Previous Thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10367.0 (https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10367.0)

Cast:
Offroad-Me
EXH
D22
S20

The road so far (Cue “Carry on my Wayward Son”)

2015- “I don’t want to be married anymore”
XH lives in the spare room for 18 months. Hell on Earth. So I drive. Off road, on road, over hills, dales, curbs, very steep inclines. I survive.

2016- HX moves a half hour away near Son’s school. Expects son to live with him. Son says no. Keeps coming into the house stealing things while I am away at work. I change the locks. And still I survive.

2017-Son Graduate from High school.  Xh moves to the next state over, to a miserable location. And still I survive.

2018- D graduates from college, S fails out first year at college. I am left out of the decision where XH moves to another town and S moves in with his father to go to community college out of state, when there is a fine community college here, cheaper, better, with transferable to a four year college degrees. Xh refuses to give me the address. I can’t insure S without the address. Hah! I get the address. And still I survive.

2019-Kids really realize how screwed up their father is. I’m living life. XH is off the radar except that S lives with him during the school year. My mother falls ill and passes. Her estate is an adventure, one I would pass on if I could. And still I survive.

And now…..

But first a word from our Sponsor.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 13, 2019, 12:38:45 PM
Are you reeling from ILYBINILWY?
Come to
The Hero’s Spouse
Where you can read the same script over and over and over again, and feel less crazy.
Because it isn’t you. It really IS them.

Sung to the tune of the Coca Cola “I’d like to teach the world to sing” song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eQhtAh-SJM
I’d like to reduce MLC
And replace it with love
Stop cruelty, and all schmoopies,
and insincere Twu-Wuv

I’d like to teach the LBS
They aren’t the enemy
I’d like to keep them safe from harm
And save their sanity

I’d like to see us all be healed
Whether or not we stand
That we’ll survive this even if
It’s not the life we planned

It’s a real thing
What their hoping to find
But it’s all in their minds
It’s a real thing
Mid-life CRI-I-I sis
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Treasur on July 13, 2019, 01:04:26 PM
Well nothing but an ILY from me, OR...I shall be singing that song on my allotment tomorrow. Thank you for the chuckle  :)
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 13, 2019, 01:14:27 PM
It's time for me to catch up with myself. I'd like to thank Ready2Transform, Disillusioned and Tyks, who weighed in on my last thread about how to decide who to sell the house to. I got lucky. Option 3 and 4 popped up, and either of those are equally ok with my sister and I, so we're taking the higher of option 3 or 4 and running. No guilt, and I like it that way.

But it did bring to the forefront that I still have some strange things to work on. When I thought of selling the house to the family, I knew what would be ahead work wise for them. I remember my first house, and the old couple who lived in it before I purchased it. I remember it was in such a state of disrepair that I had to replace all the pipes under the sink and halfway into the wall. I had to replace the toilet and the pipes in the wall and sewer lines under the house. I had to replace the wood planking some idiot had put on the tub/shower wall, and the water seepage had ruined the drywall beneath. I had to re-pipe the tub. I had to put in a gas line for the dryer. I had to replace the thermocouple in the wall heater. But I was 22, no kids, had the skills and friends with skills and could live in a half working house. None the less, I was still surprised that so much work had to be done to make the house livable when I had paid the going rate for the house and had to borrow money from my parents to buy just the supplies. That memory colored my decision making process. And yet, I cannot only do what is best for Offroad. That would not be me or even acceptable to me because as I have always said, we do not live in individual bubbles. I would not shortchange myself, and if the family had any skills other than being able to paint walls (I confirmed they did not) or reserve funds (they maxed out on the downpayment they could put down at 5%), I'd  have gone with that. They might not have take our counter anyway, because we weren't going to replace anything. And that brought me to my possible real reason I balked at the family. If we had countered, and they countered back, the house could be locked in limbo for weeks. And I want this done and dusted. A cash offer where the flipper knows they are replacing everything is a no-brainer and exactly what we described in the description and exactly what I wanted.

We got 6 more offers in and I didn't even look at the Owner to Occupy offers. I didn't expose myself to it so they don't count. It made things so much easier. But I wouldn't have gotten here if people hadn't give me things to think about. I appreciate it very much.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 13, 2019, 01:32:17 PM
From my last Thread RE my friend and her mid life transition/crisis
Well, goodness me....all sounds very familiar doesn't it?
So, no spouse/m to blame? Did she treat her brother as the LBS target instead or someone/something else? Was the Kpop band like an FA or were there other RL 'affairs'?
Sounds as if perfection was a mixture of making the world safe and low self-esteem?

Hope it helped her that you could listen. How did it make you feel to do so, OR?
Yes, she did treat her brother as an LBS target. Mind you, he was his own mid life bozo, but the things she would get angry at him for were ridiculous. She'd behave like his mother, then get angry when he didn't do things without her telling him to do it. Example: She'd pay all his bills except one and then get angry when he didn't pay the one bill. If he's never responsible for his own bills, where is he supposed to learn that he's supposed to pay that one random bill? That doesn't even make sense.  I had pointed it out to her in the past and her response was "He should at least be able to pay one bill!" Well, maybe if he knew he was supposed to pay it, OK. She was not this person when we first met.

And I can't tell if the kpop band was like an FA or not. On the surface it seems so, but.... you see, she used to dance in the SCA (Society for Creative Anacronim- you had to be there....) and she is a fantastic singer. But she lost all of that /let it go years ago for reasons unknown. To talk to her in her current state, she feels she wasn't good enough to do those things, yet at the time she did them, she was fantastic and knew it and everyone who watch or listened knew it. But somewhere in there, her confidence (?) got shattered. So I wonder if the Kpop band is like people who watch something they can't do so they can feel like they are a part of it, if that makes sense. She wants to do that again, I can hear it when she  talks about their dancing skills.

Another thing is that while she would not have any kind of physical affair (in her case, her religious beliefs held strong in that regard), she would end up in emotional attachments with remote people, including married men (very unlike her). Anyone for whom it would not be possible to have a face to face relationship. She couldn't understand why she could not  find a relationship, but she set herself up for failure. The "perfection" does the same thing.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 13, 2019, 01:42:52 PM
From my last thread
Wow, that was a very insightful conversation OR.. I'm following Shock sis thread, I read Stayed's H letter and some other former MLCer threads and they all seem to say very similar things, right? What's interesting about your friend's story, is that she didn't have a marriage to destroy but I'm sure she still inflicted some pain on other people around her because of how she was feeling.. It does "prove" in some way that MLC is not related to the marriage, which we get told here many times but sometimes seeing evidence of it helps, doesn't it?

Thanks for sharing this with us..
After listening to her talk, I thought it was very important to share. No spouse, so it can't be the spouse. But she projected her thoughts and feelings on to many others. Often she would complain that X person did something, when that thing was what SHE was doing. I would gently point out that she was complaining about something she was doing, and she was genuinely confused. When I specified, she could see that she had done so, but couldn't see it as she was doing it. In this example, complaining that another friend didn't listen to her all while not listening to me. Totally absorbed in herself and her own needs without any regard for anyone else's needs. She'd slide in and out of this mode.

The only person she truly inflicted pain on was herself, though. She'd bottle up what was bothering her and hold grudges. She'd be angry at someone (rightly so in many cases) but they didn't know it and then she'd wonder why a person who treated her badly (and she was angry about it) would continue to treat her badly. It's was hard for me not to tell her "Duh." Instead, I had to explain that if you don't tell someone what they did was unacceptable, they will continue to do it. She ended up with mostly toxic friends. I even had to back off quite a bit because I couldn't take her toxicity for a while.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Finding Joy on July 13, 2019, 01:56:01 PM
You are hilarious!!!  I’m so glad you survived and hope to see you thrive!
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Kintsugi on July 13, 2019, 04:08:10 PM
As I read your post, I couldn't help but think of "I Will Survive" by Gloria Gaynor.  :D
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 13, 2019, 07:32:51 PM
Well nothing but an ILY from me, OR...I shall be singing that song on my allotment tomorrow. Thank you for the chuckle  :)
Awe, Treasur, thank you. If only I had your gift for saying the right thing. I'm glad you enjoyed it, humor is what gets me through. I'm looking forward to my own garden next year. We can compare vegetables and the climates they like.  ;D

You are hilarious!!!  I’m so glad you survived and hope to see you thrive!
Thank you, Finding Joy. Thriving, I hope, comes when I quit being hit with one thing after another. I thought I had gotten there last October when I started to fix up my house, but was derailed when my mother fell ill. I have no doubt I will get there. I hope we all do.

As I read your post, I couldn't help but think of "I Will Survive" by Gloria Gaynor.  :D
But of course!  ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLHY0Pqeyzw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLHY0Pqeyzw)

Though this is my song: "I Lived" by One Republic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINfQbfZwik (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINfQbfZwik)
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: stillbaffled on July 13, 2019, 07:47:41 PM
Well, I see I'm a bit too late to offer an opinion on the sale of the house! 

Sounds like you have arrived at a decision that sits well with you. 

I was wondering....do you still have the surfboards!??!   ;D
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 13, 2019, 08:00:35 PM
From last thread
Thanks for sharing your friend's story, OffRoad. Her MLC seems a bit like mine. No marriage was wrecked, no OM.

The big difference I notice is that I knew how to say no, was not interested in perfection and didn't allow anyone into my life. I was more into having fun, going out dancing, etc. than anything else.

There was also what for me was drinking more than I should since I barely drink, if at all.

I knew why it come, it come with BD. Can't even call it a dark period since most of it was great fun. The dark part was when Liminality hit.

During my MLC, or bumpy MLT, I had a boldness I lost afterwards and that I quite liked and miss. However it does not seem possible to bring it back since it seems to depend of the MLC high.

A MLC without marital destructions, cheating, leaving to live with the alienator, etc. is very different than the MLC most of our spouses are having.  And much easy to deal with afterwards.
Strangely enough, Anjae, you appear to have done the opposite of my friend, and maybe some of the opposite of your normal demeanor? Because that is what my friend did. She liked to dance and stopped. She didn't drink, but then started--not a lot, but more than she ever did before. She used to set boundaries just fine, then didn't. She had her moral code, then pushed past what her own boundaries in that would be. She used to make non toxic friends at the drop of a hat, but then started choosing people who had questionable moral codes (drinking and driving, including with a child in the car; cheating on their spouses and asking her to lie for them-she didn't, but still; leaving their 5 year old alone while they ran to the store) . In her case, she thought she was having fun going out with Toxic friends, until she realized they went out with her, but treated  her badly. When a married man would ask her out, instead of telling him "Hit the road, you are married." she would tell me "I'd never go out with him, of course, but he says he can't afford a divorce." Or "His wife is just terrible to him." or some other inane thing, words she would NEVER say before all this happened. I shut those down immediately with "If he's unhappy, he can get the heck out and then go find someone, not the other way around. It's never acceptable." It's almost like she had lost control of any common sense she used to possess. I  don't know if I helped, hindered, or was just there, but I'd like to think I was a tough love voice of reason for her.

She blew up her own life: Went to live with her brother and be his mother, stopped working enough to support herself, let her car break down and didn't replace it, relying on her brother's car for transportation, allowed her living conditions to deteriorate to the point of rats in the house (just ick). I believe she is looking for the caring she never got from her parents from her brother and he is just as broken as, well, the whole family was. When I look at her, and know her story, I see a person who missed out on some lessons growing up because her parents did not have the tools to teach her, and tried to figure out if her personal code was really hers, or the construct of someone else that she was trying to follow. What did SHE like? She didn't know, so she reverted to what she had been told, yet wanted to break free. Take care of your brother. Family first (which translated to family before yourself). Keep negative emotions to yourself. Whatever is given to you is good enough. Your are just a girl, so you are not as worthy as your brother. Nothing you do is all that great. I could go on.

This is my opinion based on our 27 year friendship, knowledge of her family and observations. I saw when she started to head down the rabbit hole, and knew there was not much I could do except listen, and express my own opinions as such. I just found the things she said as she is starting to come out of it so very MLCish, and yet no spouse. Go figure.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 13, 2019, 08:17:08 PM
Well, I see I'm a bit too late to offer an opinion on the sale of the house! 

Sounds like you have arrived at a decision that sits well with you. 

I was wondering....do you still have the surfboards!??!   ;D
I appreciate your thought, SB. Yes, Surfboards are still here. They aren't in my way, it was the point of the matter. I'm not XH's storage facility. And to answer your questions from the last thread, still working on the estate. Got the house cleared out, stocks sold, car taken car of, closed everything I could think of, put the house on the market and was very surprised at how many offers we have gotten in such a short amount of time (it's priced really low for the area due to the run down nature of the interior of the house). But then it occured to me, how do I get my mothers taxes done? So I called a tax guy and will talk to him on Monday. I need to know how to get all her paperwork forwarded to me. The stuff from the military won't forward, and I don't know if Social security will or not. At least I have learned what NOT to do for my kids. And my mother was fairly organized with the paperwork.

I was going to head out off road last weekend, but then had to work on Friday, so it didn't happen. I am looking forward to an adventure soon.

Somewhere back there I mentioned Mr. Flirty managed to wreck his car and lose his job in the span of a couple of weeks (neither was a surprise to me, IMO he's on the MLC train and it's only a matter of time before he implodes). I only heard from him once right after he lost his job and once when I notified him that a co worker had passed and gave him information on the memorial in case he wanted to attend. If he doesn't want to be outside of work friends, that's on him. I'm certainly not going to chase him down.

Now I have to find my house interior. After bringing all those quality belongings from my mother's house over here, it's a mess. And I still need to get the fence repaired, the garage door replaced, the old playset removed from the back yard, and the yard landscaped into something maintainable. Thank goodness I got the roof repaired and the house painted before last winter! This is not easy while working full time, but man is it satisfying every time I can check something off of the endless list! Including "Sleeping late" every.single.saturday. Go me!
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: PJ Ames on July 13, 2019, 10:40:09 PM
Along for the ride, OR. Thanks for the humor!
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Seahorse on July 21, 2019, 08:16:26 AM
OR - Reattaching - It's been awhile.

Sea
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: UrsaMajor on July 23, 2019, 02:04:32 AM
New Thread - new directions...
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 25, 2019, 08:53:25 PM
It's good to see you PJ, Seahorse, UM. I must say, I have no idea where some people find the time to post here frequently. I do remember having that time during early days because, hey, who was sleeping anyway, right? I think I work too much. :-\ Except I love what I do and I'd do it for free if I didn't need to work, so it is work or not?

The house saga. It's simply interesting (to me, at least). Option 3 on my mother's house waited until escrow started. then decided that they wanted to lower the price by $19,000. Uh, no. I'd sell to someone else for the lower price before I sell to someone who did that to us. Now, if they had a valid reason, like they found a termite nest in the attic, I could see it. But the reason? It was going to be more work than they thought. My thought was "It's the same amount of work as when you made the offer, locked us in so we could not accept any other offers, had us fill out two hours of paperwork and then waited until the last second to back out." My next thought was "Whiny baby." So when the listing agent called back after the offer was cancelled, I said, OK, lets try option 4 (options 5,6,7,8 and 9 had popped up by then, BTW). But first, please  have option 4 go out to the house, inspect it, look at the disclosures, make sure they really want to offer that amount and ask if they will remove contingencies. My list agent said " That's not normally how it's done. " I said, "I don't care. I have better things to do with my life than spend it filling out paperwork that cannot be used, having my house locked up so I can't sell it and having it off the market so no one else can make an offer on it. If the flippers making bids don't know what they are doing, it's not my concern and I am not dealing with another whiny baby." That seemed to take him aback. I know what we have and we will have zero problem selling the house. I just don't want to have to do a lick of work on it if I don't have to. In the meantime, my poor sister is texting "I'm afraid we won't be able to sell it now." And I text back "Ever? Are you insane?" I seem to have lost patience with people trying to make a problem where there just isn't one. We had 5 solid cash backup offers, and a couple of conventional offers for more money, but more likely to fall through on the loan. We talked and agreed to just go through the cash offers one at a time until one stuck.

I think my listing agent pushed a little hard on option 4, because the 4 investors with that offer couldn't get their contractor out to look at the place, and one balked at the cigarette smoke on the walls. Oddly enough, you can put your nose next to the walls and can't smell the smoke unless you are more sensitive than a friend of mine who cannot abide any smoke smell at all (she could not smell it on the walls, but could smell it in the drapes and carpet). The smell of dog urine, however, is overwhelming in the carpet. So they said no, thank you and I cheered. Saved us all at least 8 hours of time. The listing agent asked what we wanted to do and I said, "Offer 5 is next, please ask them the same thing you asked offer 4. Plus, they even have on their offer "All contingencies will be removed if the offer is accepted". They went out to the house, checked all the disclosures, agreed to remove contingencies, agreed to pay for the requirements for low flow toilets and whatever else the government wants, and gave us a $25,000 good faith deposit! However, we have to wait until August 9th or 12th for escrow to close. There is no house payment, so not that big of a problem. I'm crossing my fingers. Escrow papers arrived for me to fill out, but my sister had an angiogram today (confirming a tied off aneurysm had stayed tied off), and she cannot sign legal papers until Sunday. (some rule in case the anesthesia is still in her system or some such thing). We did confirm she could sign non legal papers, and she was fairly sure she had bought a Ferrari in her sleep so she could be Magnum PI. I said I'd get her a Hawaiian shirt to complete the image. 

S went with me to the house last weekend and helped me load the boxes of shredding into my mom's old car (the 2004 CRV with 26,000 miles on it). I am so envious of his youth  :) What took he and I about 15 minutes would have taken me 2 hours. I took it to the shredders last week and one more thing off the list.

And speaking of the car debacle. So I had offered S the CRV for free (and I was going to give D $5,000 to help pay off her car) OR he had $5,000 my mother had given him (D, too) a few years back and I said he could give me that and he could have the Highlander (for the $10,000 it is worth) OR, he could keep his original $5,000, and I'd give both he and D $5,000, then he could buy whatever car he wanted when he got around to it. He opted for choice 3, so I told him I didn't want to hear another word about how he didn't have a car, and I was punishing him for living with his dad. That I thought he was foolish to pass up the CRV because that car will be good for 10 more years and if he wanted to sell it in 5, it would still be worth the $5000. But his stupidity choice. It is possible that his dad does not want to pay the extra insurance for the extra car, but I can't possibly know if that is true or not. It's a nice little car, just needs a radio that has an aux port and some paint. The interior is like new. I'll keep it for a little while, just because.

S will be returning to AZ next Saturday. It turns out EXH's parents are flying out to see EXH and S is catching a ride with them for free. OK by me, I don't  have to pay for the flight. I will miss S on the one hand, and on the other, I am looking forward to being by myself again. I wonder sometimes if there is something awry with me, but I go to dinner and movies and Celtic music fests with friends and also on my own. At the end of the work day, I'm kind of talked out and want some down time during the week. And I do enjoy not making dinner if I don't want to. A bowl of shredded chicken at the beginning of the week and some fruit, and I'm good all week long.

It's a fine life, even if it wasn't what I expected. I seem to need less to make myself happy. Go figure.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Tyks on July 26, 2019, 04:12:38 AM
OR, reading your thread often makes me smile. I love your no nonsense attitude :)
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 27, 2019, 07:16:57 PM
I'm glad you can enjoy it sometimes, Tyks. Humor is how I get through, though not everyone understands my brand of humor.

I just got home from a memorial service for a co-worker. He passed back in June. It was exceptionally sad because once before he had not come into work without notice, and his manager first called him and having gotten no response, called his mother (who lives in another city). This man called in later that day and was out for 3 days. This time, his manager called him and got no response, but because he had to be on a plane, did not have the opportunity to call the mother. They found him 4-5 days after he had passed. He was likely already deceased when the manager called him, but the manager is feeling badly.

It was an hour and a half drive up and back, so lots of time to think. My deceased co-worker was not yet 39, looked much younger, appeared to take care of himself. There are only two choices of how he died based on the Eulogy from his father: Suicide or accidental overdose of something. I, of course, did not ask as if they wanted the exact cause of death known, they would have said so. I was astonished that the Eulogy consisted of enough information to spell out one of those two causes. I was more astonished to find out that one of his younger sisters had passed the previous year. I actually found out more about him in the hour and a half memorial service than I had learned from him in the 3 years we had worked together. He liked to hike, enjoyed cooking and eating food, at one time thought he'd go to culinary school, had found the "love of his life", was engaged to be married, was working as a server at a job he enjoyed and preparing to buy a house and "lost it all in a short amount of time" right before  he came to work for our company. He loved working at the company, though in the almost three years he was there also lost his sister and his best friend had moved away shortly before my co-worker passed. So in the span of four years, he had lost his love, lost a job, lost a sister, and lost his best friend (to the move). He was quiet and gentle, did everything at 110%, rarely complained and hid whatever addiction he had while at work. He was a good man, from all accounts. We worked on several projects together and I thought him so.

And it made me so sad that this happened. To lose two children so close together. Only five of us showed up from work. It was a distance away, but from the emails that the family sent inviting his co-workers to the memorial, it was obvious they needed to know that the workplace he told them he loved so much had people who cared about him there.

And yet tomorrow at work there will be a round of people who didn't attend the service who have passed judgment on his death without knowing anything about him, really. When he was out for Family leave, as it turns out due to his sisters death, rumors flew all over the place and I said "If he wants to tell us why he was out, he will do so when he gets back". None of the rumors had anything to do with the truth, although I had no idea at the time. I find this happens a lot at work, people would rather make up something to speculate about. I wonder why that is?

Today I wish I were a mind reader and might have been able to do something to stop this. But I'm not. One more thing I have absolutely zero control over, except to pay my respects and maybe give a little solace to his family. It never seems like enough.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: UrsaMajor on July 29, 2019, 03:18:11 AM
OR,

That is a sad story and I am sorry for the loss of your colleague.

As for those that spread untruths, I guess that a lot of it has to do with the fact that it may make the rumor-monger feel in a position of power because they are the ones starting it. However, as you noted, what it really is is petty and small-minded.... and totally unnecessary... and wrong...
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: stillbaffled on July 29, 2019, 07:00:52 AM
OR - your mother's house!  What a little bundle of work that has been, huh?!  Hopefully in August it really will wrap up and you can close the door on that project. 

I busted right out laughing when you shared your sister's dream about the Ferrari, Tom Selleck, and the Hawaiian shirts!  Man, I loved that show back in the day. 

Sorry to read of your young co-worker's passing.  I hope that his family found some comfort in having a few of you from work be at his his service. 

Have you been doing any off roading lately?  I got another couple hundred miles in on the Harley this weekend.  The summer is going by fast. 
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 29, 2019, 10:24:28 PM
Thanks, UM. I felt so bad, and yet not bad. At the end of the memorial, my deceased colleagues mother had been greeting family and friends and I was fairly far back in the crowd. When it lightened up around  her, I went up to her and explained that I was his co-worker. That we worked on several projects together and he was wonderful at his job, that he was a good man. And she hugged me and cried. I'm glad I went.

Yes, SB, I'm just waiting for the house to be done, then I will pass off the taxes to some tax company and I found a road to drive to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, so that's a weekend road trip. I have made plans to go leaf peeping and apple picking with my D in October and I decided to make it an adventure and spent the money for a JetBlue Mint Ticket(I booked so early, it wasn't that much more than a standard ticket) It's an experience. I want to find people who will off road with me in Utah, as there are a lot of great roads off the beaten trek there. It's just hard for us all to get there with our rigs and still  have time to drive. I'm searching for more weekend trips, where I can get a cheap flight somewhere, rent a vehicle and see how much I can see in whatever area I'm in. MeowWolf was the first of those, and I want to squeeze in several more before my body gives out altogether.

I suppose I should dust and vacuum every so often, too..... :P
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: stillbaffled on July 30, 2019, 06:41:07 AM

I found a road to drive to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, so that's a weekend road trip.


Oh my gosh....I would so love to do this with you!  I've never been to the Grand Canyon and it's been on my bucket list for years to hike to the bottom of it.  Now, I fear I'm getting too old to accomplish it but I could sure off road with you! 

I hope you'll share details of the trip after you return. 

Your fall adventure list sounds fun as well!  Keep living life big, OR!  That's what we're doing and we're doing it well! 
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on August 09, 2019, 09:36:38 PM
My life is so not very exciting. I'm kind of liking it that way.

Next week I'm off for a desert to mountain off road run, and if we get into the mountains early enough, I'll check in with a 100K race and see if they need a driver to pick up aid stations and bring back drop bags. (I've done this for a couple of races where the runners are on some pretty hilly terrain and lugging the canopies and supplies in and out is rough.) My mothers house is set to finalize escrow on Monday, I've sorted most of the paperwork, just need to deal with taxes when we get there. My sister needs to check the attic to make sure she didn't miss anything, so I will be joining her on Saturday so if she falls off the ladder she will not be alone.

And this is where I get my confusion on. My sister is married. Her husband, up until a year or so ago played sand volleyball. And yet could never help pick up, move, load, unload anything (groceries included) because his back hurt. But he could play sand volleyball. OK, maybe different muscles, I can maybe buy that. So then there is this whole thing with the house and all the stuff. When his mother was ill and died, my sister was there helping out, cleaning up, etc. To his credit, her husband brought us dinner one night while were staked out in the hospital. But every time my sister climbed a ladder into the rafters, or hauled items home, he was nowhere to be found. When I asked her, she said "He's at the beach, it's his weekend." My thought was 'Your weekend, too, and you spent time helping him with his mother." But the truly confusing thing? He doesn't seem to care that she is climbing around on a ladder in an empty house with no one close enough to call for help. Hence, while I could not care less about anything in the attic, I'll be taking three hours out of my weekend to make sure she's still on one piece when she is done. I may not be able to climb the ladder, but I can steady the ladder or call for help if she falls.

I'm feeling like I've not lost anything when I see a marriage like that. I seem to be having one of those 'I am so confused" regarding the world today.

In more good news for Offroad AdventuresTM, my legs are improving. Slowly, but they are getting there. I fixed the sprinklers in the front yard and the next day every muscle in my right side was cramped up. But when it healed, my hip and legs were better. I wonder if I have enough sprinklers to get them back to normal?  ::)

4 more boxes of Goodwill quality belongings gone, one son sent back to AZ, three sections of carpet pulls re-glued back into place, one Roomba programmed to vacuum, and one roast ready to eat (these 9:30 dinners are a killer).  It's a pleasant life.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: stillbaffled on August 11, 2019, 03:09:35 PM

4 more boxes of Goodwill quality belongings gone, one son sent back to AZ, three sections of carpet pulls re-glued back into place, one Roomba programmed to vacuum, and one roast ready to eat (these 9:30 dinners are a killer).  It's a pleasant life.


OR - Congrats on getting Mom's house/estate almost wrapped up.  That's a load off your plate. 

Good news regarding your leg improvement. 

You're certainly accomplishing things and that is an awesome feeling for sure.  I most certainly feel the same way. 

Carry on with the pleasant life! 
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on August 21, 2019, 12:36:51 AM
Thanks, SB. I know you get it.

The house closed on the 12th. I distributed the bulk of the money on the 13th. My sister bought a new car to replace her 3 year old car the 14th. There was a reason I was in charge of the money. ;) I now get 4 months to relax until tax season when I have to stand in line in half a dozen government offices, death certificate and will in hand, waiting to get all the 1099s I need. Except I forgot the remaining four cemetery plots my parents had purchased. I don't need them, my sister doesn't need them, we are checking to see if anyone else needs them, but the podunk cemetery has no idea how to transfer the plots from my mother's name to anyone else's name. My parents had this little certified deed thing that said they owned the pieces of land, but it isn't registered with the county or anything.  Maybe we'll just put some nice benches on the spare ground and be done.

And since I had no requirements this past weekend, desert to mountain run off road for me. I needed that. We visited one trashed cabin, one that people keep up, with an open invitation for whomever to use it (just please don't trash it) and one that has been burnt down. I had purchased a go pro knockoff that provided me with some amazingly good footage,  but I need to find a better way to mount it. Geez, those little things get hot, and the battery dies at the most inopportune times. I have a really nice end of video where you can see the Jeep ahead of me heading up at about 45° and just as I turn to head up behind him, pfffttt. But there were other hills that I got to film. I also got to bring a shoe sole full of pine sap home. That's some good, aromatic glue, I'll tell you!  Good people, great conversation both on the road via radio and at stops.

Sunday I started cleaning my own house, with a stop for birthday dinner with my sister, niece and her hubby. I will be 60 on Wednesday. My brain has no idea, but my body keeps reminding it. People at work keep telling me about their vacations sitting on the beach with drinks and why don't I do that? I'll sit on the beach drinking non alcoholic mimosas when I'm almost dead. Until then, join up or get out of my way as I limp on. ;D  I really say that I like to see something I've never seen or do something I've never done, but most people don't understand my spelunking and rappelling story when they know I am both claustrophobic and acrophobic. (Feel the fear and do it anyway-glad I did it then, ain't happening now)

As I was cleaning out papers, I ran into the "immediately after BD laundry list" of all my faults. What a difference four years makes. I was not allowed to be unhappy. Ever. (You must be happy all the time. Really.  It's there.) And what went through my mind right at that moment was "Firetruck you, xh".
He could come home and vent all he wanted, but I was only allowed 10 minutes of venting time. Then I must change the subject. "Firetruck you"
I was not to sigh. Ever. "Firetruck you"
Or roll my eyes for any reason. "Double Firetruck you, since you are the one who sighs and rolls your eyes"
I had to decide on EVERY dinner out, but he could over rule my decision. "Firetruck you"
We could only have a discussion if we both agreed with the subject matter ( no disagreements) "Firetruck you"

I could go on, but why? Please note, there are no exclamation points on my "Firetruck yous". Why? Because it was really a retroactive reaction that I would have liked to have had the presence of mind to have done when he handed that ridiculous thing to me. It was almost a "meh" "Firetruck you". I wasn't angry, or disappointed in myself for even still having it.  I was mildly amused and for the most part thinking "I wasn't imagining it, he was a total jerk. Huh. How about that?" And that solidification that whatever he is at this time in his life is nothing I need in my life.

So pulling from the other thread, Is the LBS always right? Is the MLCER always wrong?  My MLCER is certainly wrong for me at this time, maybe for all time. I like having my own opinion. I like being sarcastic with other sarcastic folks.  I like singing off key(because I cannot carry a tune in a bucket) at the top of my lungs with the music cranked up and the kids in off key lack of harmony in the car. I like being happy and sad and frightened and glad (Interjections! Show excitement or emotion! Hallelujah!). I like driving around and pointing to some place and saying "Let's try that " on occasion.  So if that isn't "right" for my MLCER, ok.

But I do find myself running the gamut of emotion on occasion.  For the childhood  I loved that wasn't the norm, but I didn't know any different so I enjoyed it. For the lack of parental support, which really contributed to what I am today, which isn't a completely bad thing, but I think I might have liked some support.  For the retirement I will likely spend without a significant other, but definitely not alone. For my children, who may forever think that what happened with their father and I is "normal" and may color their world a dreary gray instead of the Crayola box of colors it should be.  For every day, still being mobile on my own no matter how hard or painful it is to walk, still having a job where I can support myself, still really wanting some time off where there is nothing required or necessary to be done. And it's all ok and no one is telling me I'm "wrong" for what I feel.

It's that contentment thing I'm really growing to love.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: stillbaffled on August 21, 2019, 06:41:27 PM
Hey OR! 

HAPPY BIRTHDAY! 

I hope your day was fabulous and that you did something that just made you smile all day long! 

Nice job on getting the house/estate wrapped up (well, except for that cemetery plot business!). 

Keep rolling those miles on.  Love the go-pro story.  I've been thinking about getting one for my helmet when I'm on the Harley. 
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on August 27, 2019, 11:01:24 PM
Thank you, SB. My day was fabulous. And I got free desserts everywhere for a week. Always good to share so that everyone gets some, but not too much!

Journaling a bit. On my fabulous birthday, I was fortunate enough to work in some truth to D22. She had not texted for my birthday and I was concerned. I texted and asked if everything was OK. She responded asking if I felt something odd in the world, and immediately texted her brother (I actually seem to have a feeling for when things are wrong and know when to ping the kids, but this wasn't one of those times). Her brother then told her he was the good child this time because he remembered to text me. ;D ;D ;D When D texted to apologize, I told her I was just concerned, it was not like her to not text. Turns out it was the beginning of the school year at her old Alma Mater, and she was helping build sets for the first play of the season. Days got lost, completely understandable.  So we Skyped for a while (S20 was scheduled for later in the evening after his class).

Backing up, at the end of S20's summer visit, he mentioned that his cat had fallen of the balcony and she was in a drainage pipe when she was found "they" checked her out and she was OK. I said "They? What is it you aren't telling me?" S looked very sheepish, then sad, then said "Dad has a girl friend."  This was nothing I hadn't already suspected, being as I was forced to stalk to find S's address when XH wouldn't originally tell me the address. What I discovered was a person with the same first name as the person who supposedly "helps" with his business and has for more time than anyone else knows and he would ever admit (Means it was likely a long distance OW that he denied). The last name, however was different and it showed she was still married. At the time, I shrugged and thought "Yeah, whatever."

I have truly reached meh. When S said his dad had a girlfriend, the only thing that came out of my mouth was "Does she treat you well?" S just looked at me. I said, " All I care about is that she treats you well."  S replied, "Well she has questionable morals." I nearly lost it ::) ;D ;D :-X. Gee, duh, do you think? (I won't go into the felgercarb she had written for a job application to be a ...wait for it...Judge, because she is currently a...wait for it...attorney, except to say that in bold lettering in one section she states "She and her husband do everything with their children and her marriage and family are the most important things in her life, next to church and volunteering for *everything under the sun*". Written 3/2019 after she had been living with XH and S20 for six months. You cannot make this stuff up. Hey, I had to be sure my son wasn't living with an axe murderer. You put things on the internet, people see it.) And this is how I know I reached meh. I didn't care, except to make sure S (and his cat) were safe. S, on the other hand, stood up, put out his arms and said "Huggy?"

So back to D and I, and I said, "I want to get that elephant out of the room. S told me about your father's GF." And D nearly fell apart. "I wanted to tell you, but I wasn't sure you were so upset when Dad left. I hated not telling, thank you so much for letting me know." And I said, "D, I get to be upset. I get to be sad and I get to be angry. I get to feel whatever way I'm going to feel when you and your brother choose sides. And I get to work through it however I need to.' And D said (you can guess this one)"We didn't choose sides. What were we supposed to do, abandon dad?"

I took a deep breath. " Tell, me D. When S went to live with his dad, you refused to tell me where your father, where your BROTHER was going to live. Did you respect my wishes to know where your brother was living?"
"No."
"Did you instead honor your father's wishes to keep S's location SECRET from me?"
"Yes."
"That was choosing sides. You chose your father's wishes over mine. You chose your father's SELFISH wishes over my concerned wishes. Your father told me we should never have had S. Am I supposed to believe that S is safe with a crazy man who won't tell me where my son is living? It made me feel really bad to be forced to become a stalker to make sure I knew where S was if I needed to come and get him for any reason."
Stricken look on D's face.
Me: " Sometimes there ARE only sides. Whatever you choose, and make no mistake, anytime you choose to do whatever your father tells you to do without consulting me WHEN IT AFFECTS ME is choosing sides, there is most likely going to be a hurt party. You GET to make your decisions, you are allowed to choose sides when you decide or need to. Then I get to decide how I will deal with that when I find out, because I will find out. I ALWAYS find out. Your lying to me because you are worried I will get upset does not help. Instead, it makes me sad that either you or he have put you in the position where you feel like you have to lie to me, either directly or by omission."
More stricken looks from D. Also, a slight light bulb moment.
Me: "It took me less than 15 minutes to find out where S was living. So you didn't tell me the address for no reason at all, except your father wanted that control, where your dad maneuvered S to live with him, totally blindsiding me without ever giving me any input at all and I wasn't allowed to know where he was. That was screwed up, D."
D nearly in tears at this point.
Me: "Please think about what you do. Think about how you would feel if someone did this to you. How would you feel if I moved away, took your brother, and refused to tell you where he was at?"
Back to stricken look on D.
Me:  "I don't need to know anything about your father or his GF. I just want to know S is not around people who are dangerous to him, or who might hurt him or his cat (because my son would be absolutely destroyed if anything happened to his cat). When you choose your fathers side, I will be hurt. After the things he said and did to me, it will always hurt when you choose to side with someone who could behave to another human being in such a fashion. I get to be hurt, I get to work my way through the hurt and decide how I want to deal with it. Life isn't always "happy" and I am OK with that. I do understand that he didn't say or do those things to you, so you think it's OK. That's your choice to make.

Everything is now out on the table. I don't want any more "secrets". If it needs to be a "secret", it's screwed up."

And then I changed the subject and we moved on to everything else in life. Had a nice hour and half conversation until it was S's turn to talk. I have to remember that D is only 22, and that she has no frame of reference for how to behave when a parent is a sparkly turd. I do have to say that XH's parents confound me, though. It was OK for their son to do what he did to me, but when XH's father stayed with his wife who had dementia until the very end (like 86), then found a "friend" shortly after, he was persona non grata. But then, that also kind of explains why XH is as screwed up as he is.

Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: UrsaMajor on August 28, 2019, 01:59:06 AM
Oh my..... THAT was not just a truth dart, that was a whole barrage....
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ukiTijXKP6tNK/giphy.gif)

but, at 22, that is a lesson that needed to be learned.... She'll be thinking about that for a while...
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Treasur on August 28, 2019, 02:04:05 AM
Sounds like a good life lesson for your daughter OR...a hard earned lesson for many of us LBS much later in life of course. There is something so insidious about secrets and lies and dysfunction that we can all ending up making choices without always quite realising that this is what we are actually doing. And how important respect is for ourselves and others, even if we disagree with their POV profoundly. Sounds like you ran a small efficient masterclass on personal responsibility  :)
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Tyks on August 28, 2019, 03:41:37 AM
Damn, I wish I could express myself like you.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Nerissa on August 28, 2019, 07:31:33 AM
Damn, I wish I could express myself like you.

Me too. What an honest and useful conversation with D. 
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: xyzcf on August 29, 2019, 06:15:08 AM
Had to share this with you Offroad. I just returned from Moab and had the wonderful experience of taking a Jeep tour through Canyonlands and thought of you several times as I was hanging on for dear life...what a trip! I admire you that you got involved in such a sport...loved it!!!!

Personally, I could not see myself actually driving the vehicle  :D
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on September 30, 2019, 08:57:13 PM
Thank you all for your kind words. It didn't seem to affect D and my relationship in the slightest. Probably because she knows I have said my piece and that will be that.

Thank you XYZCF. That sounds like so much fun, I am so envious! I haven't been to the canyonlands in years, and then I didn't have a real 4wd. I want so much to go and see all that, but I need to find at least one sidekick with another vehicle. Utah is so beautiful in many ways, but I suppose I can find the beauty in most anything. I'm still working on Kansas, though.  ;D

Journaling a quick note. Getting ready to go visit D in a few weeks. I'll be puttering around by myself during the week, but on weekends we have a Renaissance Faire and The Three Sisters Art Sanctuary and escape rooms and the butterfly conservatory and covered bridges and corn mazes and cemeteries and whatever else I can cram in and limp through.

Odd things happening still. I no longer crave any kind of junk food. It's the weirdest thing. In fact, food is kind of a pain in the tush. I just cleaned out my email inbox that I haven't been able to touch for years. Jettisoned junk email that was obviously junk email and I'm wondering why I couldn't bring myself to let it go previously. Free cycling out the fridge in the garage I no longer need and the kiln I no longer use. And it's easy. There's no "What if I want to do this later?" Nope. Don't need it. I keep chucking more and more things, though I still keep the crafts I want to get back to. But I don't need Christmas yarn. I haven't used Christmas yarn in 20 years. Why did I still have it?

And I answered my own question by accident. I kept some things and didn't use them because if I used them I wouldn't have them anymore. And at this time in my life, that answer just seems so darned silly. If I burn the candle I won't have it any more. If I crochet something out of the yarn I won't have it anymore. If I wear those shoes, I'll wear them out and won't have them anymore. But you know, I gave my family every thing I had, and I don't actually have them any more, either. I don't NOT have my kids, but children are kind of on loan. It was my job to raise them to be responsible decent human beings. Done. But letting things go opens up possibilities for new things to come in.

I mean, does anyone really NEED 4 pairs of identical earth shoe flip flops in different colors? When I normally just wear black anyway? And I don't have a BLACK pair? Or 25 baby soaps from various and sundry hotels? (I'm keeping the Madonna Inn one). Or 17 types of allergy medicine when I don't have allergies? (XH did) Or plastic cutting boards I always hated, but XH wanted. (I got myself a beautiful wood cutting board and I can slice things like I haven't done in over 20 years). Throw away three things, replace with the one item I really want. I want. Me. What I want without any compromises.

Life is so exciting. I need new light fixtures. ;D
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: terra on October 01, 2019, 05:34:28 PM
OffRoad, your posts always inspire and comfort me, with your clarity, positive approach, and strength. And adventurousness! I hold back from saying my adventures here because it feels like telling would identify me absolutely immediately. For whatever reason, I am still scared to do that, to share my favorite specifics about me, and so I deeply admire your courage and openness.

Your “ME” and “I want” development really resonates with me today. So ;) I am really just stopping in to say I LOVE your beautiful wood cutting board. I mean I can actually see it and feel it. That is a gorgeous new aspect of your beautiful life, and I am so glad you gave that to you.

I have looked around at my life these past few days and just feel satisfied. It’s fine. I’m fine. I have enough; I have good relationships; I have a life that I like.

I didn’t think it would be like this, ever, or that I would be alone. But what I’ll say about it is that in the course of everything, I like who I am, and it’s so good for me to see that others are like this too. And although I’m not an off-roader, I hope our paths cross someday. Because hey: you’re surviving, and you are doing it with such grace and strength and even contentment.

Thank you for being one of the ones who show that this is possible and can be done.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on October 14, 2019, 09:29:34 PM
Hi Terra. I was so glad to see you post your own adventure on your thread. That was very cool!

I have to tell about the Jet blue Mint experience. This is Jet blue's first/business class. I decided to treat myself on my trip to visit D. The plane is arranged with two sets, then one centered behind the two, then two behind the one. I was in 2A(https://pointmetotheplane.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Screenshot-2018-07-05-11.07.49.png)
The seat reclined, it leaned back, it made into a bed! I had a 15 inch TV.  (My whole family watched a 15 inch TV together when I was growing up).. I had a space a foot wide and 3.5 feet long as a shelf to my left. I had three charging stations. I had a water bottle holder, with full bottle of water to my right. With a reading light over it.  I had a personal cubbie tha held  my sunglasses, tablet, purse, bottle of Coke (Pepsi product airline), chain Maille rings and pliers for crafting, and I only filled a quarter of it. I had a tray, and a place for my drink cup, and when I stood up, I wasn't leaning against anyone else's seat.  I stepped into my "suite" and got the lay of the land.  Sitting in my seat was a comforter and a "Hopper" bag filled with a toothbrush and toothpaste, eyes covers, a polishing cloth, socks,  a pen,  and a few other sundries I didn't need, but we're nice.

I was offered a pre flight drink  (I chose non alcoholic ), learned how to adjust everything, picked out my movies for the flight (I keep SD cards with movies on my tablet- my choices were Bring it On and Avatar for this flight) and settled in.  My dinner consisted of a mini burger, mac n cheese and a chef's salad,  along with a roll, ice cream and some fresh fruit. (I got what was called "plane eats" because I really don't like all the trendy mushroom and sprouts food ) it was delicious. I reclined my seat. Then I started to try flat like a bed, but discovered there is a place where I was laying at an almost flat slant and I loved it. I didn't want to leave! I could work on my computer, create chain maille, watch TV,  do the hokey pokey  (though I had to duck to hokey pokey). I'm looking forward to the trip back.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: MyBrainIsBroken on October 15, 2019, 10:44:18 AM
I'm glad you're enjoying your flight. I don't hear people say that very often. Enjoy your trip!
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on November 09, 2019, 07:53:03 PM
I've been meaning to write about my trip to visit D, but I'm not there yet. It was good, but sobering. That's for another post.

Today I am sitting in my garage. This was the scary garage where you could find almost anything needed, except maybe a place to park the car. I had been convinced that the cause for this mess was me.

It wasn't. Don't get me wrong, fully one third is my stained glass shop, but that was agreed to when we moved in (3 car garage, the one car section for the glass shop and sellable item storage). I found an extra dvd player (never opened) and my old foodsaver. There are also my 6 flip top boxes of desk decorations  Totally me. But the rest? Holiday decorations. Past tax records (ok, 1994 should really go). Bicycles. Camel packs. Camping gear. Nuts and bolts. Tools. Xh's wood projects and wood scraps (we're talking boxes and baskets of 4x4 inch or smaller odd shaped scraps). Pvc pipe for sprinklers (unfinished project). Pex pipe for water pipe repairs (unfinished project)  Wallboard to patch the hole xh left in D closet (still a giant pizza box covering that hole, btw). Paint. Snowsleds and boards. Surfboards.

Wait. Where is the stuff that was my fault? On two 12 inch by 6 ft shelves, in boxes, neatly organized and labeled. WTH?  How did I get the blame for every thing else that was joint or his and all over the place with no organization? How did I ACCEPT the blame for that? For YEARS?

I don't even know how I feel about this.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Treasur on November 10, 2019, 12:09:11 AM
Hmmm...sounds like a metaphor for the mess in our spouses heads...nope, was never about you, caused by you etc. The difference with a garage is you CAN clear it out of rubbish lol....and I susoect the majority of LBS were the adults who cleared stuff while MLC spouses skipped off to their new magic happy right?

What kinds of stained glass projects do you make?
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on November 14, 2019, 12:02:22 AM
I've been cleaning out everyone's else quality belongings for 3+ years now. I'm beginning to wonder if it will ever end. Getting very close to clearing enough space for the new garage doors. Except those danged surfboards are in the way.....figures. Just two more cases of glass (about 500 lbs each) and a cutting table ( holding about 600 lbs of glass and built to last the apocalypse) and I'm done. Then I can start on the inside.

Treasur, I've been making stained glass (art glass, I don't do much actual staining) for about 38 years now. I started with a mirror to match the stained glass inserts in my mother's player piano after which I swore I would never work with glass again. It turns out I was making impossible cuts and sometimes having difficulty because of it. But then my grandmothers each wanted a small window, so I made each one and I was hooked. The next project was a 3-d carousel with eight horses that were geared to go up and down when I turned the crank that made the carousel turn around. It was engineering genius built on a phonograph turntable. It needs some repairs, but I still have it. Then I started a business and made Kaleidoscopes, boxes, dragon and faerie suncatchers, candle holders, and small windows for 17 years, selling to shops all over the country and merchanting at Renaissance Faires and some SCA events on weekends. D had been selling with me at Renn Faires since she was 5 weeks old. (I guess I was insane, I drove 5 hours to Las Vegas alone with a five week old, and slung around 80 lb boxes whiles setting up a booth with a baby in a basket next to me. I picked up XH at the airport later that night because  he couldn't take the day off....).  I also made the occasional consignment of a large window or specialty kaleidoscope when the opportunity arose. Some of my creations will likely be passed down from generation to generation. My favorite piece I also still own. It is a 3d replica of Captain Hook's galley from Disneyland of old. Looks close to this:
(https://www.yesterland.com/images-fantasyland/pirateship_withteacupscirca1958cl.jpg)

The ship is in a glass case and it's about 20" X 10" by 18" tall. I made rigging out of wire, slumped the glass for the boat in my kiln, made cannons out of brass tubing and solder, bird's nests out of upside down lamp washers. I used to have a place to store pictures online, but I don't recall where that is. I may have to find someplace to upload some pictures.

And then I took a run at some fused glass, but after the kids were born, I let that slide. I got a job in membership accounting at Kaiser, when they moved to a different platform I volunteered for testing it out, discovered I was doing Software QA, moved along to testing an AutoCAD clone (I got to draw pictures all day, break software and THEY PAID ME!!!), and just kept moving onward and upward until we decided we didn't want other people raising our kids. He made more so I quit, but my company liked me so much they offered to top his salary to get me back, so then he stayed home with the kids. We switched back a year later, I still made stained glass in the evenings and boxed it up to sell at two or three faires a year.

Which is why I believe life is opportunities we take or we miss. I hadn't worked full time in 15 years when XH left, yet I was able to go find myself a job in my area of expertise (no, not stained glass  ;D) at a wage where I could support myself and S then 15 and get D the rest of the way through college. I think my belief in me is justified. ;)
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on November 22, 2019, 10:17:19 PM
Journaling.
The trip to visit D was great. We leaf peeped, went to a renaissance faire, saw cranberry bogs and Ocean Spray, went to a couple of escape rooms, visited an Art Sanctuary which inspired me, and I slept. A lot! D worked for four of the days, and we chatted and watched tv when she got home. She said it was so comfortable with me there, and I felt completely at home.

Shopping was a challenge. I could be half a block from Home Depot and not see it, the trees are so thick! ;D But it was gorgeous. Still, not for me. I've found I like my interstates and esay freeway access. Nothing easy about getting around there.

I'm not sure if I'll be going back to visit her again. Navigating airports is getting more difficult. This was not what I was expecting at this age, and I'm not giving up, but it's definitely frustrating.

I about destroyed my legs cleaning up the garage to get the new doors. The third car section is my glass room. There was near to 4000 lbs of glass to move around in the glass room, and space was limited,  so it was unload a case, move it, reload the case. Then it turned out the door estimator said clear 6 feet back, but the installer says 10 feet back and I had to say, "look in this section. There isn't 10 feet here. I wouldn't have purchased the doors if anyone said 10 feet".  I got him 8 feet in the main garage, but I watched him, he did not NEED 10 feet, but I can see how it would be nice to have more room. Such a difference in attitude from the guys who took down the playset. But I now have new Garage doors. I think I'll sit in the garage and open and close my doors all weekend.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: MyBrainIsBroken on November 23, 2019, 12:18:51 PM
I'm glad that you had a nice visit with your daughter. Enjoy your new doors!
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on November 23, 2019, 12:38:34 PM
Thank you, MBIB. I'm actually sorry it stopped raining. I was going to sit in the garage with the doors up and some hot chocolate. Just because I could. It's the little things..... ;D
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on November 23, 2019, 02:13:48 PM
I forgot to mention, for those in the know. The surfboards were in the way of the new garage doors. Guess what's going up for sale?
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: stillbaffled on December 05, 2019, 05:54:57 PM

I forgot to mention, for those in the know. The surfboards were in the way of the new garage doors. Guess what's going up for sale?


Well, I'm in the know and I'd like to put a bid in!  Are you willing to ship or will I have to drive to pick them up? 

Your trip sounds lovely.  I love escape rooms.  I've done several with family members.  We usually do pretty well. 

Hope you're still finding time to sit and enjoy the new garage doors. 
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: MyBrainIsBroken on December 06, 2019, 07:33:32 AM
Unfortunately I would have more use for a snowboard than a surfboard but good luck with your sale.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on December 15, 2019, 11:27:52 PM
All bids welcome.  ;D  I'm not sure how much shipping would be, but being picked up = a great road trip. I can always find somewhere to put an extra person. Can you use a surfboard as a different kind of snowboard? Inquiring minds what to know.

The fence went in last week. The yard comes next, but since it's not a necessity, I can wait until after the first of the year. It's rather a jungle in the back, but I kind of like it this way, except for the three foot high weeds. Those are a pain. Still lots of pictures and paperwork, but I'm getting there one thing at a time.

I posted part of this on some other thread, but think I should also keep it here.

Right after BD, in the spirit of inserting monkey brain distracting activities into my life, I created a 4 ft high box with openings for going in and out for my sister's gymnastics team and it was a feat of engineering. It needed to hold up four gymnasts while doing routines,while being able to be disassembled so it could be easily transported. When I was finished, it was able to hold three sumo wrestlers on top and fit into a Prius when disassembled. I then reupholstered my couch and had the material cut out to reupholster the loveseat. I never got to the loveseat, other things came up. I recently started reupholstering the love seat. It's the same as the couch, same fabric, same bazillion staples to come out. And I was transported back to a few months after BD. Over four years later, and I was right back there. I had nightmares for a week, but I didn't stop. It was slow going, work for a half hour, rest for a half hour.  My muscles ached, but it was the good kind of ache, then kind that says you are actually doing something. My mind was on overdrive, sorting through everything that happened: at BD, prior to BD, after BD.  I popped a blood vessel in my hand from all the squeezing of the stapler. Getting down then back up from the floor was a killer. I forgot a portion of the arms and had to take them back off to sew it on. I thought I would never finish. Last night, I did.  Well, not completely, there are two panels that kick up when you recline that still need to be done, but it's mostly finished. (I didn't want to take the time to remove the half a bazillion staples when the kids would be coming home soon). 

That was one of the hardest things I have done since BD. The initial couch was just me working on auto pilot. The loveseat was full of lessons.
1) There will be things that will trigger me and I accept that. I have to trust that I can get myself through it.
2) It's OK if I get triggered. If it happens for the rest of my life, it's STILL OK. It's not OK if I allow it to take me over.
3) Finding something to fill in my time was a Godsend after BD. Don't shortchange the adage "Gain a life". Call it anything you want, just go do it. Do SOMETHING.
4) Finishing something I started after BD was almost like a reset button. I was able to look at my thoughts from that time in a different light.
5) Just because I have physical limitations I didn't have before, I can still do a heck of a lot. Going slower gives me a different perspective.
6) There's a lot of satisfaction in checking things off the "Been meaning to get that done" list.

I was speaking to my (I consider) MLC friend today. She's still angry more often than not and it confuses her. Everything still points back to her FOO issues, but she won't go see a therapist because then everyone will know she needed to see a therapist. Her entire screwed up life is based on everything has to be a secret. Someone might KNOW! She is underemployed and lives in a rat infested house with her brother and shares a car with him. I asked her why she didn't think she was worth more than that. She is an intelligent (normally), articulate woman, and she has this attitude that she is really incompetent and that somebody might FIND OUT that she really isn't capable. It really is crazy making, because I have known her for an incredibly long time. She did not start out this way and she knows it doesn't make any sense, but cannot seem to stop herself. And when I ask why, it comes back again to NO ONE MUST KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HER. Because she is afraid she won't measure up in their eyes. I asked her if she might just be projecting her own fear of not measuring up onto everyone else. She acknowledges that it could be true, but changes nothing and makes excuses for not changing anything. I actually yelled at her today "Why are you doing this to yourself? You deserve better!" Then I apologized for yelling and she said. "No, I need to be yelled at. you are right."

I yearn for the time when I had no idea what a FOO issue was and thought everyone would be a decent human being.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on January 25, 2020, 09:58:09 PM
Journaling

Christmas was very pleasant. D23 came in on the 20th (I think) and S20 didn't arrive until rather late on the 22st (Sunday).

XH was driving S into town because he was actually going to spend Christmas with his parents this year. D, S and I have a tradition and we usually go out right after the last of them get here to get a tree. I asked S if he would be home in time for us to get a tree on Sunday and he said yes.  For whatever reason, XH didn't start out until 11 am on Sunday the 22nd, then took the scenic route to get here. Then didn't drop S off at the house, but took him to the Grandparents (XH's parents) house. There was  35 minutes to closing time on getting the tree and I told S we could wait until the next evening. He said no, he'd meet us there, so D and I got into the car and headed for Home Depot. We got there and S was on the far side of the lot form the trees and his father no where in sight. We dropped S's bags in the car, went into the lot and we had 10 minutes to pick tree. Grab, shake, grab, untie, shake...we got lucky on on the sixth shake, we had a beautiful (albeit only 7 ft tall) tree. It's hard to tell heights because S is 6'5", so everything look short next to him. As I headed out to pay for the tree in the store, the kids were lifting the tree on each end and I said "Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, turn." (If you know where that quote comes from, you are my kind of person). The guy in the lot started to laugh and he said, "You guys are really fast." and I replied that we are hunt and kill tree shoppers. I paid for the tree and get to the car to find D and S trying to get the tree tied on the top with a very short length of rope and I asked them where the other rope was. D said this was the only rope she could find, so I reached in the car and handed her the two pieces of rope I had pulled out for tying the tree. They were sitting in the front cup holders where I showed her I put them when we got in the car.... We stopped for Rolled tacos and brought the tree home.

I had purchased one of those Krinner tree stands, where you just put the tree in, step on the pedal until the jaws are tight to the tree, then lock the pedal down. We had the tree up in five minutes! I like that stand! We decided to go Harry Potter again this year and put on "floating" candles, flying keys, plastic cauldrons with timer tea lights and fairy lights all over the tree. It came out very nice and made all of us smile every time we looked at it.

We went to my sister's house for Christmas morning and we did a strange white elephant gift exchange. I had also gotten a couple of things specifically for my sister because she had said she wanted one of them and the other was a DVD of Scavenger Hunt. We came back and D and S were going to go to Grandparent's house. I thought they'd run off when we got home, since that is what H always wanted to do every Christmas. But they didn't want to leave right away, they want to watch some TV and play some games with me, We did an online escape room( http://neutralxe.net/esc/elements_play.html (http://neutralxe.net/esc/elements_play.html)) and had a lot of fun.  I had gotten D's Graduation Pictures in the mail (finally) and put one in a frame for Grand Parents and one in a Frame for XH. I also threw a handful of Pixie Stix in with XH's frame, because I had bought some for the kids stockings and XH used to love Pixie Stix. The kids took the gifts when they went over. When they returned the following day, D said XH was appreciative of the Pixie Stix. I thought that was funny.

D,S and I went to see Jumanji: The Next Level one weekend, then we went to an escape room the following weekend. It was another Sorcery themed room and was a blatant take on Harry Potter ("Welcome to the chamber of things you should not tell anyone"). It highlighted how well D, S and I work as a team. Each of us saw different clues, and we motored through without nary a clue given to us from the room master and had 14 minutes to spare. The biggest challenge was there there was one lock we opened and it lead to a circular door, with a lip at the bottom and only waist high. In a previous life, this wouldn't have been an issue, but these days, having been standing for a half hour, I couldn't bend over, bend my knees and step over the one inch lip on the floor, and just bending at the waist wasn't enough to get me short enough to get through the door. So I ended up  in an inverted V (because my knees wouldn't bend, but I can touch the floor) and crawled in what could only look like some cartoon move as i went one hand over the threshold, then the other hand, crawled forward with my legs completely straight and drug one leg over the threshold and then the other, then stood up. D said she would have asked if I could have come in from the back door, but I said, Nope, I got there, it's all good. We finished that room and were done.

We went out to eat after that and I knew S had done an escape room with his father and his cousins and XH's Brother and wife. I asked if this was better or worse. S said, "So much better. This was a lot of fun." and I said "Wasn't the last one fun?" and he said, "Cousin 5 and Dad should have had their own escape room. They couldn't get out of their own way." Cousin 5 is 8 years old. S compared his father to an 8 year old.  ::) S's biggest peeve was that his father yelled at S when S was reading something out loud. Then proceeded to read everything out loud himself. :-X

The tech in the escape rooms is incredible. So many things run on a program so that if you do X, Y, or Z, then something happens. It's amazing just to look at the tech.

I miss the kids when they are gone, but I do like having my own space. They are here long enough to cause chaos, but not long enough to get into a rhythm. I also spent way too much and didn't notice that I had done so, so I will have to be more cautious next year. S needed new clothes and I outfitted him with a half dozen new shirts, four pairs of jean and some new socks. and told him to throw all the socks he brought with him away (he had huge holes where his big toe stuck out!!). This was a healing Christmas. I didn't have the kids all the time, they visited with their father and grandparents and friends, but it was exactly what I needed and just enough of it. And I have a new roof, new paint, new garage doors and new fence and the playset is gone. Plus I got the loveseat almost finished before the kids arrived. It feels good to move things along.

We lost 10 more people at work. I now do the job of three people, but fortunately that isn't hard. The company changed hands and names and they are trying to get it back on it's feet. I talked to the CEO and asked if they were going to try x or y, something new. The response was pretty much that they are going to continue to try to compete with Amazon, and that isn't  going to get us anywhere. If you keep doing the same thing, you will get the same result. The only way this company made it in the past was it's niche of being able to get things other places couldn't. Amazon already sells the standard things we sell at a cheaper price. So I am polishing up the resume. I was hoping to ride this company until retirement, but I don't see that happening now. A new challenge is  not necessarily a bad thing.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Tyks on January 26, 2020, 03:57:27 AM
Wow, sounds like you had a blast for the holidays ! I am glad that you found it to be a healing Christmas:)
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn%u2019t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on March 04, 2020, 09:43:58 PM
Thanks Tyks. My entire outlook seems different somehow.

Journaling this so I will remember the screwed up Ness of it all.

Absolutely no contact with H for nearly a year. Today I get a text. S20 went to the Dr and needed antibiotics. Did he have another card for prescriptions? I pay for S's health insurance and have since 2015.  S is a "guest membership" while he is in another state. I had never seen his card.

I asked for XH to send me a copy of the card, and low and behold, no mention of the prescriptions. I forwarded a copy of the card he would use while here, including the phone number to call about pharmacy issues. He texts back that there was no pharmacy on that card either. I told him exactly where it said Pharmacy, and reiterated there was a phone number. He texts that they (the pharmacy) can't find it. Meantime, I'm calling the insurance company and finding out what is going on. The rep on the phone asks what pharmacy he's at. I ask him. He won't say. I tell him the rep will help if he'll just say where he is. No response for 5 minutes. Then he texts "The pharmacy is there. They missed it." The rep says she can see the authorization coming through. I thank her profusely and hung up. His comment was that with the insurance, the meds were so much cheaper!

After all that, my takeaway was he was unwilling or unable to call to get a prescription taken care of for his son, he still blaming others for his own issues ("they" couldnt see "pharmacy", written in plain English on the card and he obviously had no ability to point to it on the card), he still is unwilling to give me any location he is at, even though I am 6+ hours away and he couldn't be bothered to thank me for actually *gasp* helping get it taken care of.

I am once again reminded that he is still a screwed up human being. What must it be like to be unable to function in a normal fashion just getting a prescription and not even be able to thank someone for help?  As I have said before, I would never have even looked at whatever he currently is. It makes me so sad now.
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Whyus on March 05, 2020, 01:04:51 AM
I can understand the sadness Offroad and you have every Right to be sad. Just dont dwell on it for too Long  ;)
I still sometimes think of who XW was and who she is now. It is still shocking, horrific really.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn%u2019t mean to take
Post by: stillbaffled on March 07, 2020, 03:27:18 PM

I am once again reminded that he is still a screwed up human being. What must it be like to be unable to function in a normal fashion just getting a prescription and not even be able to thank someone for help?  As I have said before, I would never have even looked at whatever he currently is. It makes me so sad now.


Sure hear you on this, OR.  Screwed up human beings, indeed. 

Your kids sure better remember to thank and appreciate all that you do for them. 

On another note.......did you sell the surfboards??
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Treasur on March 07, 2020, 10:07:45 PM
It's a combo of that mad secrecy and cheese brains that creates MLC complication about the most simple of things isn't it? Remarkable really that they cross the road unaided  ::) Perhaps explain to your son that, bc his father makes stuff like that rather difficult, in future your son needs to have his card and/or be the one to call you as he is an adult now?
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on April 03, 2020, 08:25:23 PM
Thanks for the comments. Fortunately for me, I don't dwell on much of anything anymore (no real point in it). I had the surfboards down and ready to sell when all heck broke loose with COVID 19. I can't even give things away on freecycle because people are just very strange. (more on that in a minute). As to S and his card, he normally does do all that himself, but he was very sick. I am actually grateful that his dad at least went out to get the prescription, I just wish he was a competent human being. And now I am fairly certain from his symptoms he had COVID 19, but he was never tested so we'll likely never know. Fever, aches, shortness of breath, cough, felt like something was sitting on his chest, pneumonia, lasted for weeks in his chest, all he wanted to do was sleep.

So, right before "shelter in place", I put some things out on Freecycle. Sometimes I figure there might be someone who wants this bizarre clock or that set of TV trays, so I'll freecycle them (put them out to a group and people respond if they would like the items. Then we arrange for a pickup spot or time or both). I get my fair share of flakes, but I get a lot of really decent people, too. I can't say I've ever gotten bizarre like I did this time. Someone was going to pick up an item. Then, they couldn't come by because they hadn't had a nap. The next day, they weren't sure if they could make it because the neighbors dog was barking and keeping them awake.  OK.... then I had someone who wanted all five of the items I had advertised. When I said she could have four of the five because the other item was spoken for, she no longer wanted any of it. Fine.... Then I had this one person who kept asking what area of town I was in. The Title of every item says Offered: Item on Offer--area of city you are in. ::). She asked for every item, when it clearly says what area I am in. On every item. I felt bad for one woman. She really wanted a set of shelves I was letting go. It's not a large set of shelves, kind of tall skinny media Ikea type shelves, but still a $100+ item new. Two days later she says she can't have them, her boyfriend "doesn't want to do this". I'm not sure if he didn't want the shelves, or didn't want to drive or what. Every interaction, with the exception of one, was a little off. And the one was a person I have given things to in the past, so a known quantity. It was interesting to see such a stark contrast to what I normally get for responses, which is more like "Is it still available" "When can I pick it up?" " Sure I'll take two of the five items".  People sound...whiny. It's weird. I'm not sure what to make of it. Stress maybe?

I am fortunately still working, but I am also fortunate to be able to work from home. It took us all of a week to get everyone in the office set to work form home. I kind of miss the face to face interaction, but like I told someone else, my kids have been out of the house for a while so Skype and Zoom and us all playing board games or video games with each other over the internet is nothing new. Adding a few more people in to that mix was pretty seamless. Besides, I'll take this over having to worry about money along with everything else. I felt so bad for one co worker. We'd all been working at home for two weeks when he was laid off. I can't  imagine looking for a job in this environment. :-\

I bought myself a Big Green Bissel Carpet cleaner. It actually works on my recycled plastic bottle carpet. I don't have a black trail down the center of the hallway on off white carpet anymore. I was impressed. That was five years of being too overwhelmed to have the carpet cleaned. One section at a time. Everything is one thing at a time.  :D Too bad I can't get rid of all the things I am willing to part with. I just keep filling up the  backs of the cars.

And now, it's dessert for dinner. Strawberry Shortcake. I haven't had that since last summer. Then I'm going to spend tomorrow making face masks for the places here who want donations. There are a few hospitals that figure something is better than nothing. I have to agree.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 12, 2020, 06:13:01 PM
Journaling today. I had a nice Skype sessions with D. She dropped the little bomb I was expecting: Christmas with her father this year. I'm not going to lie, that was not an easy conversation. D knew it and we soldiered through anyway.

It turns out last year XH said the kids should have Christmas at his place. To her credit, D said " This is not the year to do that." (My mother died last year) and to his credit, he said he could see that.  ::) (and yet, he still asked....). So D broached the subject today. I told her I was expecting it, and that it was hard, but fair. She said she still wanted to have Christmas with me and could we have Christmas on another day? She would fly into where her father lives, pick up S and drive home. We could spend two weeks before Christmas, get a tree, celebrate early, then she and S could drive back on the 23 or 24. I told her the day doesn't matter, it's the presence (and I spelled it so she would know I didn't mean Presents). She said I was a master punster (which I pretty much am). I asked her what car she would drive and she mentioned XH's old car and said he's gotten a new one. A Tesla (check another box off on the MLC checklist). I laughed and said exactly that (check another box off) and D laughed and said, "Mom, you have no idea." I do know he buys $100 slippers he doesn't wear, but I digress.

So what are the chances that D and S will actually make it here for anterior Christmas? Fairly slim. There's covid, to start with. Then there is relying on using a very old vehicle that belongs to the person who believes I am the spawn of the devil. XH is famous for coming up with "reasons" to stall (last year S barely made it in time to get a tree). But I think I'm OK with that. Sure, I would be upset and cry, but that's OK. It good to be sad when things don't go as you'd like.

The conversation was difficult, and as I told D, it might be the fair thing, but It's never going to get any easier. That they both have their new family to go have holidays with and  I'd be lying if I said it won't hurt when they have to make a choice, every single time. Because it will. For anyone who can "not care for the sake of the children", good on you. I will always care that my kids get stuck with crappy situations they have to figure out how to navigate and it will make me sad. But I also told her that my feelings are mine to deal with, that I will work through them and that she needs to do what she needs to do. Then she said.....wait for it " Now I have two families to celebrate things with." and I stared at her. She took one look at my face and said "That wasn't the right thing to say, was it?" I just stared at her some more. I couldn't speak and not fall to pieces. D said "I may sound like an idiot sometimes, but I know how hard this is for you and I can't tell you how much I appreciate that you never asked me to pick sides. I know you didn't want to be next to dad and stand there like everything was great at my (college) graduation. But you did it and I have pictures of me with both my parents and I am so grateful I have them. You are always there, no matter the cost to you." and I took a deep breath and said "Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it."

I realized it would have been easy if I never had to see or hear from XH or about him ever again. But I get this great reminder that I have to split my already very limited time with my children. And that if they want to also spend time with me in a year when they either want to or feel obligated to visit or stay with their father, they have to jump through hoops to make it happen. S could not come home for summer because his father would not put him on a plane (made sense} and does not want me to pick S up at the house (makes zero sense). S doesn't want to cause problems. It the "Why does the the A$$hat who caused this mess get to make all the rules?" syndrome.

It's a frustration, but it will pass.

On a better note, I built my sit and stand desk last weekend. The normal height I like it at is about 3 inches higher than a standard desk height. I can push a button and the desk rises to my perfect standing position.  I just have to get rid of the other desk and set up my TotalGym again and I'm back in business. Oh, and then get rid of all the quality belongings in piles in various locations. I found 2 netbooks I thought we'd gotten rid of ages ago, a stack of CDs, a whole bunch of papers to go through and a basket of...stuff. Anyone need a metal slinky?
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: gman242 on July 12, 2020, 08:36:04 PM
Quote
Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, turn." (If you know where that quote comes from, you are my kind of person)

After at kid at airsoft a couple weeks ago said what do we do? I said the exact same thing. 🤣

I am surprised to find that specific quote but after reading your thread, not really either.

I can't believe I only just now caught up with you. We're lot more alike than I realized. You'll have to forgive me.

I just started year 4 July 4th. Although stay at home started back in April for me and suddenly one day I too went through everything in the house and said I don't need it and got rid if it.

There's a million reason why I / we never did that when xw and I were still together, I suppose, but I'm kind of learning towards it being her, the hoarder streak that runs in her family and growing up poor. I guess they felt the need to hang onto everything because you never know.

I never posted about it but I mentioned to xw when she was over once that I needed to do something about the lack of space in the pantry. It's tiny and we always wished we'd had a bigger one.

She suggested I get rid of my desk in the alcove in the dining room and put in a free standing cupboard. There was no way I was giving up what little space I had, since I already gave S the second bedroom for all his computer and Nintendo gear.

Anyway, my common sense got the better of me and I went and cleaned out the pantry by throwing out anything that was out of date. Long story short, I don't need any more space. I have more than enough now.

It's a bit ironic how much she criticized her grandma, her clutter and expired food.  I just never realized her "what are you going to do?" Kind of thinking.. I absorbed it by osmosis or something. There was really nothing stopping us from cleaning out all that we needed to.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: stillbaffled on July 13, 2020, 10:00:31 AM
Yeah, why does the a$$hat that caused all this mess get to make the rules?!?  I've wondered that myself a few times. 

I'm grateful that I don't share children with my MLCer.  My heart goes out to those of you that do. 

I love that you got the sit and stand desk built.  I've been asking for one of those at work for a couple years now.  I guess I just need to put the money out myself and get it done myself.    Nice work, OR! 
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: PJ Ames on July 13, 2020, 05:58:08 PM
Holidays are so difficult aren't they?

I had always expected my kids to come home for the holidays to W and I once they were grown up and moved out. But now it's going to be a matter of alternating or splitting holidays.

It sucks that the one who blew up the family and ran off still thinks they're entitled to 50/50 of the kids' time. Not fair at all to the spouse who stayed.

Enjoy that standup desk. I love mine. Now if I try to sit for hours at a time, I find it really uncomfortable.

Keep enjoying the scenic routes, OR!
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: KeepItTogether on July 14, 2020, 08:04:38 AM
I guess I should be grateful that my H runs scared around the holidays. Makes me sad for my S, but at least he gets to be around stable people all the time. Of course when he gets married, I know it will be a whole different ballgame. I think for those times, I may need to look into travelling somewhere for a holiday or 2....provided we are someday allowed to leave our homes again.

Love that you built your own desk. I love that style to. I may need to invest in one. Were you always handy like this....or is this a newly (or forgotten) acquired skill? I ask b/c now I find myself fixing sinks and toilets when I can and assembling outdoor furniture. I used to do this in my 20's.  But never since H. And now that he is a lost boy I am doing in again in my late 40's. Kinda fun actually...and very satisfying!
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 16, 2020, 07:11:27 PM
Good to read you, gman. I actually have the pack-rat syndrome that I am trying to break. I think having to clean up my mothers house was the tipping point. Plus, there comes a point where it just doesn't matter if "I might need that".

Hey SB. you really do need a sit and stand desk. I had the desktop riser at work, and it was better than nothing, but having my base desk sitting 3 inches higher insures that I am not slouching even a little. I don't have knots in my back and shoulders anymore. You deserve one!

Hi PJ, The holidays. I think I'll be creating my own un-Holidays this year. A very merry Un-Christmas. Have a Holly Jolly Anterior Christmas! Post Christmas wishes! Happy New Years Eve, Eve, Eve. Valentine's Day stinks, Mardi Gras!  There has to be some greeting cards in there somewhere.

KIT, I have always been a hands on person, learned car repair, crafts, metal work, woodworking and graphic in college. But I also seem to be able to pick up on how something is done.  It's a good thing, too, since XH left me with a front sink and no plumbing, a garbage disposal in need of replacement, holes in the walls where he worked on wiring, then covered the 2 X 3 foot hole with a giant pizza box (no, you cannot make this up), broken gates and garage doors I had to shore up until I could afford to get them replaced (who knew opening a gate where you don't have to lift, drag, and shoulder over the fence post could be such a joy!!!!), replace infinity switches on the range, and replace dripping water faucets. I do not, however do electrical, so I hope and pray that what is behind the Pizza box was done correctly. I'm afraid to replace the wallboard for fear the wiring is not sound, and it's not on the list of things to pay for someone to do just yet. (I could wall board and mud and paint myself, but still need someone to check the wiring.) You will have to tell me about the projects you have done. Did HS ever have a thread for that? We should.

Thank you all for stopping by. And now, I am so proud of myself. I, like I think many here, am not very good at blowing my own horn, especially at work. I just do and hope that it is noticed. My place of employment has been not doing too well for the past several years, and no raises that were not a requirement were given. (There is a minimum that must be paid for my position or the company is required to pay me overtime. Considering I put in about 5 extra hours a week, that would be bad for them.) In honesty, I know if I left, they'd be in a world of hurt, because I am the last person left who knows the ERP system as it was custom built. I do my job and about three others. We have had an upturn with the whole Covid thing. Kind of makes sense since we sell online. Then I found out how much the c-suite makes (these things just happen, I don't go looking for it) and I thought, if they can make that kind of money, I deserve a better salary. So I did my research, put together my list of accomplishments and sent a very professional and polite email to my boss. It was clear, though, that if I did not get a raise, I would not be ignoring my linked in emails any longer. Just a reference to "This is how much a person with my skills is worth, based on these open positions out there." ;D I asked for considerably more than the minimum requirement. And I got everything I asked for.

Right in this moment, life is good. Five years ago, my life came crashing down around my ears. I hadn't worked full time for over 14 years at that point, and was beaten into the ground, I had been gaslighted, lied to, lied about, stolen from, verbally abused and abandoned. It was all I could do to keep my head above water and get my D through her last year of college and my S through his last year of high school while working 45+ hours a week with ZERO help from their father.

Today, I am slowly getting my house in order, buying what I want and need instead of what everyone else wanted or needed, driving off road, loving what I do, and now being paid fairly for it. And I am doing it while sit and standing on my own two feet ;D. It may not be a reconciliation, but it's a heck of a success story.

Live long and prosper!
(https://s4827.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/vulcan_emoji_thumb2.png)
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on October 26, 2020, 07:36:46 PM
I pulled up my thread to note something interesting for me. D is coming back to home city for a new job and asked if she could stay with me for a while so she could save up some money. She has been living in MA since 2014, either going to school or working. I don't know if it was covid, or working from home or what, but she had come out for a visit a while back. She worked from the bedroom, I worked from the living room, at the end of the day we slapped together a meal, made crafts and watched crappy TV. And it was pleasant. I supposed she realized we could still live under the same roof and not kill each other.

I laid down a few rules (like clean your own bathroom, to which she replied "If you'll let me know when it needs it, because I won't notice.")and that she will have to pay the difference between what I would have spent on Utilities and groceries and what is extra, but I won't be charging "rent", and I know I will have to go back to having checklists on everything (the joys of having dyslexia for my D include needing some kind of list to check off somewhere). It will help her to save up faster, as she would like to buy a house at some point.

I'm glad to have her back local. I hope we can still manage as roommates. I'm not looking forward to not being able to do my laundry at 2 am, but I'll survive. I never did dance naked in the hallways anyway.....
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: FearNot on October 27, 2020, 11:46:14 AM
Congrats on your raise. I am glad that they realized you are worth it! and good for you for going after it!!!

It's nice your D is back, regardless of the challenges.  You should probably the naked dance in the hallway, you haven't lived if you haven't done that. Jk!
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: terra on October 27, 2020, 07:47:00 PM
OffRoad, CONGRATS on your raise! Well done, you!

I missed your July update, so I’m glad you revived your thread; I think yours were among the first that I followed when I returned here (whenever that was). And it’s good to hear that your D will be home again, that the two of you have what sounds to me like an easy-going and naturally respectful, intuitive, witty and understanding dynamic. I wasn’t able to be at home at any point to save for a house, so I don’t own one. I have always known I will leave this option fully available to D no matter what, and thus far whenever I’ve said so to other parents, they’ve sort of rolled their eyes a bit or stared, as if living with progeny after that progeny has come of whatever age is just not normal or the least desirable or tenable.

I think it is probably normal, desirable, and plenty tenable for many families. And in any case, pretty practical, especially now during C19 circumstances. I’m grateful that I’m not the only mom who is willing to welcome an adult child’s return, and I’ll be happy to follow along with you in support here, and when you need a cheer section.

Super thrilled for you on that raise. That seems like it is several accomplishments all at once!
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: stillbaffled on November 09, 2020, 07:53:34 PM
OR - better get the materials you need to build D a sit and stand desk!  I bet she's going to be envious of yours.   ;)



Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on December 24, 2020, 01:42:08 PM
Thank you Fear not, Terra. And yes, SB we got her a sit and stand desk. ;D

Updating my thread. My D has come back to live with me for a while while she saves up money for a house. I have no issues with that as we get along very well, though it's been challenging getting everything sorted for her.

I still had a considerable amount of items from my Mother's house sitting in my D's old room. Her room was one with a 12 foot ceiling in it that she and I had put up 2 twin loft beds, installed in the walls, back  in 2010, when we had a friend living here with her. (My best friend's D who was also my D's friend, because BF and her family were moving to another state and her D wanted to stay). So  we boxed up the multitude of photos and such, went through everything else which we decided to keep or go, and proceeded to move all craft items into the spare room that is used for guests. Then we made the two Twin beds into a Queen platform for D's Queen bed, bought a solid aluminum marine ladder to hang off the side over the window seat (due to certain restriction in the room, there was nowhere to put a floor to ceiling ladder once the Queen platform was in), add new side rails so she could not roll out of bed. So it's step up on the window seat and climb the ladder into bed. If she gets a boyfriend, we might be in trouble.

Getting the mattress up was a challenge. I have no ability to walk like a normal human anymore, but my arms still work just fine and once I plant my feet I'm fairly solid, so D and I are wrestling this foam queen bed up onto the platform, through a hole that is just barely big enough and we aren't  quite tall enough to reach. So I turn and grab one of the old side rails and hand it to her, then grab another one, and we wedge them under the edge of the mattress and push it right up onto the platform. D and I work well in tandem.

We then hooked up the swag light to a pully so she could raise or lower the light to the top floor or bottom floor, added a sit and stand desk, two monitors and a chair to the space below and Voila! Work room and existing storage below, Bed and new storage above.

Don't ask about the spare room, though... Or some of the other living spaces. One thing at a time.

Next post, revelations.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on December 24, 2020, 02:17:22 PM
I mentioned this on another thread and thought I should add it in here. After D moved in, we were in the middle of a conversation regarding relationships in general, and out of nowhere D said "Dad never cheated on you." I was not surprised, because for the longest time, I had seen no tangible evidence of that, and only in the past few years found items that pointed toward him actually having an Ow. So I said, "Why would you say that?" And she said "Because he told me he didn't. He said (first girlfriends name) wasn't even in the country then. He knows I wouldn't have ever spoken to him again if he had." Lights are going off all over, because I knew this to be untrue. I knew he had met with this high school girlfriend, at his parents house, on his birthday three months before BD, and I said so without thinking. Conversation ensued, and suddenly things that hadn't pointed to him cheating on me linked up to exactly that in the light of facts and lies he'd told the kids and me. In point of fact, I had specifically asked about this person because not only had he met up with her, and I found a card to him from her, but her name was on his business on a website that referenced who got contracts at which companies AND her name was associated with the house he was living in. He had said he wasn't with her and gave me a different person he was "now" with. It was a lie from start to finish. Anyone surprised? I didn't think so.

D said " Why would he lie?" And I said "You said it yourself, if he'd told you the truth, you'd never speak to him again. But you will and it doesn't matter. All I care about is that you don't buy the garbage that this 'just happened'. He planned it, he executed it, he chose it. It's the difference between dropping an egg on the floor and throwing an egg on the floor."

The conversation was great. And my worries about my kids were lifted.  Whether D believes me or her father doesn't matter. She knows that he might or might not be telling the truth.  Knowing what he does allows them to have a relationship but still know he could be lying to them. It protects them from listening to things he tells them that are patently untrue, while making them out to be the crazy one for saying different (gaslighting also came up in the conversation). D also seemed relieved, as if something she suspected had been confirmed.

And right then, I reached "meh".  I knew he had unfinished business with this old girlfriend, because I asked him way back when "Why did you break up with her?" (He always went on and on about how great they were together). He said it was because they were leaving high school. I later found out his parents didn't really like her. So it all makes sense in that screwed up MLC way. She is beyond an affair down, but as long as she is nice to my kids, whatever. Although during the conversation D said "It's obvious this is a mid life crisis for Dad. If they ever break up, she'll take him for all he's worth." And this explains why he is so paranoid about my coming anywhere near the house  he and S21 live in. Because she is there and if I see her, he knows I know he lied. And he still can't seem to handle that.

I was one of the lucky ones, if such a thing can happen in this mess. With the exception of BD, almost everything else came to me when I had had time to adjust to whatever level of acceptance I was on.

Next post, early Christmas
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on December 24, 2020, 03:04:26 PM
So the original plan before D moved out here was for D to to pick up S on the way home, work for a week here and we'd have early Christmas here, then they'd head back for "big family Christmas" at their father's house. But then....

D decided to take a different job here. Good choice since her company lost a  big contract and laid off 22 people the week after she left. She came here and was livid. Her grandparents (XH's parents) had decided not to go to AZ because their doctor recommended against them traveling with Covid (mind you, they traveled with Covid all year up until now). This was a sore spot for D because her grandparents canceled out at the last minute on traveling to see her graduate from college, and they did cancel for a very silly molehill reason that Grandma made into a mountain, as she is wont to do. (I don't ask why XH had an MLC, I often wonder what took so long). So no Grandparents for "big family Christmas". The Universe. It's a fascinating thing.

D travels back to pick up S, stays for a week and works from there as best she can, brings S home (Covid hair, ahhhhhh......) and we go to town. We go out searching for a tree at Home Depot. It's a thing, it's like going through a line at Disneyland. There is only one way in and one way out. You can't go backwards, only forwards, so if you like a tree, you have to drag it along with you in case you find one you like better. And there are shade cloths everywhere, so if you are in one cubical of trees, your sneeze won't make it to the next cubicle of trees. Follow the footprints on the ground, around the corner between cubicles, through the maze. I wish I had taken pictures. And I was once again reminded of how not disabled friendly most places are. Want to pay for that tree?  Go walk way over there to the store to pay for it. You don't see how the "disabled" features are not so hot until you really can't move around very well.

This year, it's the Raider's of the Lost Ark tree (Staff of Ra at the top, hat, bullwhip, snakes, little tiki god, treasure map as a tree skirt, that kind of thing), but D wanted a short tree to put up on a box so we could wrap the biggest boxes we could find and fill the base of the tree with boxes. Did you know a shower chair makes a good base for a 5 foot tree? Found something to do with one item from  my mother's house. It was exactly what we wanted. And as it happened, I had purchased a new MSI Raider laptop for each kid, so we had big boxes to put under the tree already. It didn't stop D from re wrapping the Halloween lizard skeleton I keep on my desk and putting it under the treehttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Home-Accents-Holiday-10-in-Animated-Skeleton-Lizard-8342-10214/312516219 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Home-Accents-Holiday-10-in-Animated-Skeleton-Lizard-8342-10214/312516219). She wrapped each joint separately so it kept roaring even in the paper. Everyone was re gifted at least one item. I got 14 Exit games. Because.

We watched Phantom of the Paradise (it's an experience), and Lost in Space and Castle, and played Exit games and the Harry Potter Hogwarts Battle (I like cooperative games-I'm all about being on the same side against the truly evil) and ate so much crappy food none of us want any crappy food anymore. And I cut S's Covid hair. Red curly surfer hair everywhere.

And yesterday they left for the next Christmas gathering. And it's OK. Ish. It's the first Christmas without the kids on Christmas, and I think having it before (instead of after) made it OK. I'll be going to my sister's house tomorrow where there will be five people only sitting in the back yard, six feet plus apart trying to figure out how to pass out presents. It will be another experience.

Happy Holidays to all who celebrate them!!
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Seahorse on December 25, 2020, 09:54:20 AM
OR -
Catching up and following along...
It sounds as if you truly did make salsa out of those lemons!
The tree sounds terrific, despite the shenanigans you had to go through to get it.
I'm happy that you were able to celebrate with your kids early (as was I).  Which is way better than the alternative of not celebrating with them at all...
Enjoy your time at your sister's today, albeit socially distanced and outside...

Sea
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: KeepItTogether on December 28, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
OR--I was literally smiling ear to ear reading about your Christmas with your kids. How fun are you guys?? I love it all. And I am a huge Raiders of the Lost Arc fan. Maybe you can post a pic of the tree??

On that conversation with your D. So great and cathartic for you both. Guaranteed she knew he was lying, or at the very least, he wasn't telling the entire truth. So funny he is still hiding his life from you in some vain attempt to maintain that "good guy" status they all seem to want, while doing the most hurtful things. It is such a strange  thing this MLC.

Merry Christmas.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 03, 2021, 11:02:59 AM
Thank you Sea and Kit. I seem to have a habit of losing my own thread.

I went to find it because I once again had a fascination conversation with D. Some background for those new to my thread. Xh has dyslexia and dysgraphia which was passed down in different ways to each of the children. He also had, imo, several undiagnosed differences, one of which had to do with hearing everything in the room as if it were the same level and right next to him, and the inability to remember short term--he relied on lists. S has my elephant memory, but D has similar issues as her father. The difference between D and her father is that XH tried to pretend he was "normal", but would get angry because he wasn't, but the rest of the world didn't know and couldn't know how much excess noise actually left him out of conversations or realize he did not remember what he did last week, and D recognizes and acknowledges her differences so people get it.

The other day D said to me, "I can never tell people my experiences or memories." I asked why. D explained to me that she cannot trust her memories. That someone will tell her a story, and then it gets stored in her mind. At some point,  she might tell the story to the same person who told it to her as if the story were her own. It's embarrassing for her.

Once again, this would explain a lot of things about XH'S behavior. He was often taking credit for things I had done in front of other people. When I would ask him about it later, if he realized he wasnt even there for the event he took credit for, he'd get angry and tell me I was wrong (gaslighting). I KNEW  I wasn't wrong and could most times even prove it, and I didn't understand why anyone would do such a thing. UNLESS as D said, he really didn't know until someone told him different.

I asked D how she knew that was her issue, was she sure it wasn't someone else gaslighting her, but she said it had happened with enough people that she was pretty sure it was her.

We have since worked on memory mapping for her, so she better knows what is hers and what is not, but she will likely always have limitations. But she brought up an interesting point. What if your memories are lies? In my mind, a memory is the persons interpretation of the event at the time it happened.  Everytime you access that memory, you can reinforce it, or change your perception of it. And the feelings that go with that memory might stay the same or change, much like how music or art can invoke a feeling or thought process and that can stay the same or change.

My take aways from all that is that:
You cannot be expected to understand people who won't tell you that they are different if they choose to hide it.
Not everyone who sounds like they are lying actually know they are not telling the truth.
If someone tells themselves something often enough, they can think it is truth.
Someone else's "truth" is not necessarily MY "truth" and is often no more than a different perspective.
If someone is determined that theirs is the ONLY truth and nothing is going to change their mind, ain't nothing I can do to change that.

For those that might have similar problems as my D, might their personality change based on whom they are with and the stories they hear, especially if they do not know or acknowledge that they take on others experiences as their own? Was my XH only what he appeared to be because of my OWN stories that he absorbed as being his? It would explain so much......


Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: HeavenlyFocus on July 03, 2021, 01:17:12 PM
My take aways from all that is that:
You cannot be expected to understand people who won't tell you that they are different if they choose to hide it.
Not everyone who sounds like they are lying actually know they are not telling the truth.
If someone tells themselves something often enough, they can think it is truth.
Someone else's "truth" is not necessarily MY "truth" and is often no more than a different perspective.
If someone is determined that theirs is the ONLY truth and nothing is going to change their mind, ain't nothing I can do to change that.

For those that might have similar problems as my D, might their personality change based on whom they are with and the stories they hear, especially if they do not know or acknowledge that they take on others experiences as their own? Was my XH only what he appeared to be because of my OWN stories that he absorbed as being his? It would explain so much......

Fascinating post OffRoad.  My W has continued to Lie and has not admitted to her inappropriate relationship. What’s interesting is I think she has been dealing with darkness and hidden problems since her near death experience over 10 years ago.     It makes wonder what she is hiding as she has said occassionally that she feels numb since getting real sick.  Ultimately she has her truth and i have mine. Tough to see her struggling but all I can do is let her go.  Thanks for the insightful post. 
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 05, 2021, 11:14:49 AM
Hi HF,
The whole "numb" decripton that often goes with mlc makes me think dissociation. When I was in high school, we had to disect a frog. Personally, I think it is inappropriate to require a child to take a class where you are required to cut up what was once a living thing. But perhaps they don't any longer.

In any case, I dissociated from myself to be able to do it. I was aware I had done so (most times people are not aware), but I always say I pushed real me aside, and this other part of me, the one who had no emotions, took over and dissected the frog.  I have no idea how I dissected it as the only memory I had of that was the initial sound of the scalpel cutting the frog and nothing more. My only other recollection was seeing it covered with a cloth, asking the teacher to grade it, watching out of the corner of my eye when he uncovered it to see that "I" had done a good and correct job, getting my grade and asking what to do with it. I have no idea how it was disposed of, if I did it or the teacher did it.

My point is that I always wonder if some dissociated memories are trying to surface and the only way to keep them down is to "go numb". Shutting down everything to not have to deal with it, then being so numb a person would do crazy things to feel something, anything. But not do anything that might surface those thoughts/feelings they are trying to suppress. Instead, maybe doing things they think would DISPROVE those thoughts.

It's just something I wonder.

Tiny journal. Having redone the front yard with the standard boring dry creek bed, D and I have now added colorful resin leaves, turtles and turtle stepping stones, water colored rocks that look like bits of stream, solar sun shape lights hanging off Shepard hooks on the bridge, a small wishing well with a UV light and UV painted fake plants (the radioactive wishing well at night). We still have ahead of us the fake waterfall at the beginning of the creekbed,  blue solar lights in the creekbed, hanging faerie lights in jars for the guava tree, and the dragon for the creek bed (closet thing to a moat I could get). I'm taking some chances because everything of value is chained down, but someone who was bent on distruction might still just break things. We'll see how it goes.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 31, 2021, 01:09:29 PM
Found this, thought I'd post it.

It seems that being ridiculed is not as damaging as being ignored… .The most damaging form of behavior is withholding your attention. — Masaru Emoto, The Hidden Messages in Water
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: xyzcf on July 31, 2021, 01:40:39 PM
Quote
The most damaging form of behavior is withholding your attention.

This is 100% true. There was no need, he could have had his "freedom" if he had asked for it...eventually I would have understood as I do now that he must be free.....

Understanding his crisis allows me somehow make some sense over his lack of attention and concern for me and our family..in my situation, because he remains in contact with me I also know that I mean something to him and I just let the rest go...or I would never have been able to heal.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on July 31, 2021, 07:01:58 PM
The witholding, to me, always seems like trying to force the other person into being the "bad guy".  But really, it's just a screwed up way of not dealing with life. It can be to punish, which is just plain cruel, but it can also be out of fear. "If I don't tell, they won't know and I won't be seen as a bad person." Just messed up.

Journaling: I bought a new set of outdoor chaise lounges, a calf stretcher and an upright walker. Somewhere in the mix of unboxing the chaise (Costco delivery, one 30x34x82 inch box with everything but the table and the table box), dragging them to the back yard by myself (the chaises have wheels and I have walker wheels,so we are good to go), setting one up on risers so I can actually get off it, cutting up the box, building the new walker and stretching my calves, something changed in my leg. I can now heel toe strike where I was unable to before. I can put full weight on the leg, where I was unable to before. I can lift the leg where I was unable to before.  I wonder if I'm sweating all the toxins out of my body, I stretched something that needed stretching, am walking better with the upright walker, or its just some fluke. In any case, I am still my own useful engine. That's good to know.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Father5 on July 31, 2021, 09:53:04 PM
Glad the legs are feeling better OR!  I hope the house oooks great !
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on March 09, 2022, 04:31:31 PM
I don't post on my own thread often, but something happened while on  vacation that was interesting to me.

I'm still broken, but better. Very odd, I've never heard of legs stopping working (was told it was severe arthritis) then reversing but it seems to be happening. I am no longer in constant pain, can stand for long periods and even D noticed I can move faster than before. Not complaining, mind you, just observing. I changed my seat configuration to a forward lean, rearranged my keyboard and mouse to an incline and the shoulder pain is completely gone and I can stand up without pain or feeling like I'm going to fall. You won't find THAT in the standard book of ergonomics, but I'm sold.

Went on vacation with a friend. An off road walker (Veloped Trek, way awesome https://www.trionic.us/en/veloped-trek-c-10/veloped-trek-14er-m-green-black-orange-p-204 (https://www.trionic.us/en/veloped-trek-c-10/veloped-trek-14er-m-green-black-orange-p-204)) at the Biosphere 2 works, but that hill going down and coming back up is a killer on the arms. We also hit several Native American ruins and Heritage sites, Meter Crater and Petrified Forest/Painted Desert. Southern AZ has a shortage of hotel workers and no knowledge of what an actual ADA mobility disabled room should look like. Fortunately, I am creative and managed. The snow drift around my car on the morning we were to leave Flagstaff (northern AZ) was my biggest issue. We relied on the kindness of a stranger to get the snow off the windshield and my friend had to back it out so I could get in. So much for 3 inches of snow...more like 8. But 4wd is my friend once I got in the car and I was smart enough to have left it in 4wd when we parked the night before. But I digress.

We were passing through the desert on a dirt road on the way to a heritage site (no snow at this point) and as I was looking at the scenery, a memory came back to me that made my forehead wrinkle, so I relayed the story to my friend.

Not long before BD, XH asked me if I'd like to visit Joshua Tree. Of course I said yes, I had been to many mines there with my off road group, but never a standard visit. We went and I was having a good time (having no clue BD was on the horizon). We got out at one stopping point and in the distance you could see some hills. XH pointed to the hills and said their might be some petroglyphs over there, why don't we go over. It was moderate temperature (not summer), I estimated the hike across the desert to be about 2 miles, and while I was fairly sure there was nothing over there I said sure because I thought it was nice that he was thinking of the things I liked to do. I grabbed my water pack and off we went. As happens in the desert sometimes, it was not flat, but have downwards hills as it were. Down into a trench, back up over and over which made the hike more like 4 miles. (This was not an issue for me back in the day). We get to the base of the hills and look around at the rocks. At this point, my friend is sucking in her breath next to me, but of course this is hindsight. I said "Yeah, it's not just me, that's kind of creepy isn't it?" and she affirmed it was. I asked her when she first got the creepies, because for a long time it was actually a fond memory for me. She said at the moment he wanted to leave where the crowds were and hike across the desert where there was no one for miles. I said. "Hmm."

As I continued my story, I told her how he tried to get me to come over to a certain place to see if there were any glyphs. I could see from where I was there were none, and the the rocks were not of the type where you would normally find any and I said that we were just out of luck. For a reason that I didn't recognize, I would not go anywhere near him and thought it odd of me at the time. I started back, then he started back. As we walked back, he got further and further away from me to my right until we could hardly see each other. Sadly for him, orienteering was not his forte and he was heading for the wrong rock outcropping. When I lost sight of him, I called out and told him he was off course and he popped out from behind a Joshua Tree. Now, I thought maybe he was relieving himself, you know? But my friend once again sucked in her breath. And I said maybe he was just relieving himself and she said "What, like he couldn't have done that three feet from you?" which of course was true. Not like I hadn't seen it before or anything. He just stood there for a few  minutes, and I continued walking towards the rock outcropping we came from and he started walking again, slowly closing the gap between us. We ended up back at the car and while I had a strange feeling about the whole escapade, I could not put my finger on exactly what was wrong because stupid me, I trusted him.

After I finished my story, my friend said "You might have been very lucky." and I said maybe he planned to do something, then couldn't. Or maybe it was just a harmless hike. She just looked at me and said she didn't think it was a harmless hike and had the circumstances presented itself, could have had a different outcome. BTW, this person sees the good in everything, which is why I told her the story because if it seemed weird to her, then my hinky meter wasn't off, I
just didn't realize it was going off.
Moral of this story. BD wasn't the worst thing that could have happened. I'll take that win.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Standing Strong on March 09, 2022, 08:59:23 PM
Wow, that IS a creepy story.

Ehhhhh..... yeah, not cool at all.  :-X

Do you think MLC'ers actually think about offing us?
After my W broke, a month or two afterward, my FIL and his W came by for a family gathering (W was not home, she was off somewhere, I think out of the country), and once everyone had left except them I told them what was going on. FIL said "do you have a gun?".... I was like "yes.... ?".... FIL added "and she has access to it?"...... I said "yes....?". FIL said "you need to be really careful, maybe remove it from the house"..... I said "She may be distraught but she isn't suicidal, no way she would kill herself"...... he looked me dead-center and said "We're not worried about her killing herself...." and he lifted his eyebrows with a slight nod.  :o :o :o What? "You think she would kill..... me? Nooooo, there's no way.... is there?". He told me not to be blind, and not to trust, that she could do anything.
Needless to say, she didn't kill me either.  8)

Wow, your story just brought that back for me. It's not enjoyable to think about is it? Yours's actually did something though, that's a whole different level.

-SS
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: MomOfSteel on March 09, 2022, 10:23:48 PM
OffRoad and standingstrong, I’m officially creeped out and now wondering what H might do if he loses what he wants in court.  I think it is likely things won’t go his way.  To think they are capable of that is horrifying.  I’m glad both of you are still kicking. 
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Treasur on March 09, 2022, 11:12:25 PM
Great news about your health improvements  :) that must feel like a big win. One of the problems I think with medical support with auto-immune disorders/inflammation is that they don’t always fit a standard textbook, isn’t it? But that process of trial and error can also lead to trial and success.

I often think now of life post BD like being Alice falling down the rabbit hole. A whole bunch of previously just inconceivable things, not just about how spouses but our sense of our own ‘normal’, started to feel conceivable. Lots of stories here about MLC spouses suddenly refusing to eat dinners in case their LBS has poisoned it....who would even think that? Well, projection and transference would think that.  ::) I am a big fan of a book called ‘The Gift of Fear’ in which the author makes the point that we can be too quick to out vote our instincts by rationalising them into silence or a kind of social people pleasing. I don’t know how real the risk was....but I trust that your lovely little animal instincts at the time felt at risk and you let them guide your actions. As you might recall from my story, I had death threats ‘anonymously’....my instinct at the time was that it was OW but I also felt in my bones that my then h would have walked over my dying body and been able to justify it. This was a man who previously didn’t even like killing flies! A bit of a wimpy guy actually, not a physically aggressive person at all. I lived with a sense of deep instinctive fear for well over a couple of years but it was so inconceivable to me that I told very few people I knew bc it sounded so nuts that it made me feel nuts. But some bit of me trusted my instinct and I took advice from a local DV charity and the police and my lawyer and acted accordingly. Do I think it might really have happened? Idk. But I do know that the feeling was an absolutely abnormal one for me in my life up to then and persistent, so I trusted it at some level. I know that, strangely, I started listening to a lot of those Dateline type podcasts bc I think I found them validating somehow, which sounds weird I know. But these things do happen and people involved find them equally unimaginable even after the event. I have become a big fan of not dismissing loud messages from the lizard bit of my brain  :) after all, if I am wrong, I am still alive to tell the tale, right?
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Reinventing on March 09, 2022, 11:53:10 PM
I know a woman who had a creepy situation like you had Offroad, except it was on a rented boat off the coastline. Her H was having an affair. The way he was looking at her and commented on how far away they were from other people raised the hair on the back of her neck. She moved  next to the communication device of the boat, pretending to look at the boat controls. She didn't know about the affair yet so it was very bizarre to her.

He drove extremely erratically home from that boat experience such that he was stopped by a  cop for such bad driving.

I have no doubts he intended to do away with her.

He is on W number 4. The OW at the time of the boat incident, after marrying and then divorcing him, said she would never marry again. She was married when she was an OW and so it was marriage #2 for her. She has not married again.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: KellBell on March 10, 2022, 05:53:27 AM
I have read fog stories and things from recovered MLCers where they do say they get to point of hating their spouse and have thoughts of killing them. Some of them are on here I think. So crazy.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: gman242 on March 25, 2022, 08:40:53 AM
Off Road - Glad you're still doing well :)

I don't think it's uncommon that unhappy people make their closest loved one the target of their self hate and loathing. I'm sure there's some kind of serial killer ring of truth in there somewhere right?  :o

I recall many times in my marriage, feeling powerless and begging my XW to tell me why she hated me so much. I think for her, the cheating was part of it, that she had something on me and that I "couldn't control her". I never tried..  but in her head, of course, I was responsible for everything that was making her unhappy.

Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: MadLuv on April 02, 2022, 04:09:04 PM
Wow, Offroad. What a story. You know I remember when my XH came over to talk to me after my insistence as the BD was by text while  he was out of town. 30 years is not ending over a text. During out conversation I told him. I have no idea what or why this is happening. You clearly aren’t thinking clearly, but thank you for not killing me. He looked at me strangely. I said, if you can do this then I am just thankful that I am not dead. You must need to get out pretty bad. Isn‘t that why the show snapped exists?
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: forthetrees on April 02, 2022, 05:39:41 PM
Hmmm, mine reenacted the first scene in the Dexter series with the cooking of the meat. He went out of town and I took the car to the mechanic to check the brakes. Yeah, those spidey senses do get revved up. Oh, and hid the ammo away from the guns, but later learned that he had purchased other weapons and a boat load of ammo.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Lisa Merle on April 02, 2022, 06:27:09 PM
I was left in 2014 and then again in 2015 for good after 37 years and 4 children. I realized after much research my ex has Aspergers which is related to midlife crisis. I wrote my memoir The Asperger Husband which can be read for FREE with a kindle subscription. I rose from the ashes and am the lucky one. There is hope for all as their life does not really turned out as they planned and your life may end up much better without them!
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: kikki on April 02, 2022, 06:42:21 PM
Hi Lisa M, I am interested to read your post and am keen to read your book, as a couple of weeks ago I learnt that studies had shown gender dysphoria is common in teens on the asperger/autistic spectrum.  It got me wondering if this could be a fit for people at mid life with identity disorders such as MLC, but I haven't been able to find any research.
Fellow LBS and I have looked at all manner of reasons for this sudden and explosive crisis in our spouses, and there are many potentials and many discussions on historic threads (including the potential of a pre-frontal dementia).

Glad to hear your health is improving OffRoad :)

Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on June 30, 2023, 11:34:03 PM
I don't call, I don't write.....I do read and sometimes respond to others, but life gets in the way.

I was amazed and a little concerned that others had some situations that were just as creepy.

This year's vacation was really good. Legs are again improving. Slow and steady. No longer in constant pain, and actually took 5 steps with only walking sticks the other day. Doctors are baffled as I was only supposed to get worse, not reverse and get better. Go figure.  I am now the proud owner of a Zeen (www.gozeen.com if you want to see one). My friend and I went to Las Vegas MeowWolf/Omega Mart, 9 mile Canyon in Utah, Arches NP AND canyonlans NP, and some random road that cliff climbers use that was riddled with Petroglyphs (many of which had to have been destroyed when they cut the road) and some Dino tracks.

The Zeen. Worth every penny I paid for it. Folds up flat to 12 inches and slides in the car. I can even manage it myself. Made it 4 hours at Omega Mart, then another hour+ at the Pinball museum. No good for running in the rain, though.

9 mile canyon. Absolutely stunning. Petroglyphs and pictographs, cows, fields, birds, clouds, blue sky...until it wasn't.  Just as we made it to the main rock art site, it poured. Thank goodness for 4wd. We would not have made it out as parts of the road were flooding.  Nice adventure.

Arches & Canyonlands. If I were suggesting to anyone, hit Bryce Canyon and Zion instead. Arches was OK, had a couple of nice picture places, but many too far or hilly for me to get to (had to shift to the Veloped Trek offroad walker). Canyonlands had some good offroad driving, but we were on our own so didn't go too far.  In younger days I'd have hit some of the overnight drives with others. Nice views.

Random road. I have no idea what the name of it was, but we ran into other like minded individuals searching for glyphs. Who knew there would be a dozen or more of us out there. Disappointed I could not hike to the Dino tracks, but rolling off the side of a very high flat face wall would have been a bad way to end the trip.

I now have three waist high gardens built of cinder block. My D and I got them when we shut down the office (people used them to make standing desks), she built the gardens, then abruptly decided to head back to MA. I finished the tops with capstones (veloped trek held 6 10 lb blocks at a time from car to garden) and now I have crazy tomatoes. The jalapeno got lost in there somewhere. Added a dwarf Lapin cherry and Bartlett Pear to two two foot high cinder block planters and a Santa Rosa Plum and Pink Lady apple to a couple of barrels. With the three citrus I got last year,  7 fruit trees total in the back, plus the red grape that has covered the fence and another barrel with a black grape. In three years I'll either have more fruit, or critters than I can handle. Or maybe both.

For all the newbies out there, your life can get better, it can get worse. I've kind of seen some of both.  But just keep going. It doesn't have to be dull. ;D

D got a job at Boston Dynamics. Hey, I'd go play with robots, too. So back to just me here, and I kind of like the quiet. I have snowflakes and jellyfish hanging from the ceiling, fruit trees,  solar lights and waterfalls all over my back yard, am kinda sorta mobile, and have Mexican Coca Cola in the fridge. 8 years ago I was a puddle on the floor. Whatever happens with your MLCer, life can end up just fine. I wish you all well.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: MadLuv on July 01, 2023, 08:27:11 AM
Wow, wish there were pictures along with this post. So many good things. I love you repurposed and made an amazing garden. My old retailer I worked for was  working for was throwing away base stands for shoe tables and I took 36 of them and flipped them on the side and stacked them on top of each other and they made an amazing shoe wall in my master and then 2 great storage walls in my garage and all for free!! Love those little things

You are so right. Things can be better or worse. You just have to keep looking for the good. There is always good. You also can get so comfortable being alone that is also scary. I enjoy my alone time too much now :)  still a good thing. Great update. Thank you for sharing
Title: Re: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: forthetrees on July 01, 2023, 11:50:33 AM
Fellow glyph lover here- have pics from Arches when I did a NOLS semester and Hawaiian ones. There´s just something so cool about ancient artistic expression. I planted Niagra grapes this spring and donut peaches last fall. Yes to the fruit!
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: xyzcf on July 01, 2023, 12:49:08 PM
Lovely update Offroad. I was in Zion in March and it rained. We had a geologist with us to tell us about the rocks etc and actually because t was raining we got to see fantastic waterfalls which normally are not there. I have also been to Arches and Canyonland and took a back country jeep tour in Canyonland which was white knuckle all the way.

I grow things is large pots, herbs, lettuce, zuccini, tomatoes, some other stuff. I love going out at dinner and picking fresh basil or lettuce/tomatoes and then making a salad. It's very dry (well not this year) in Colorado so I have to water everything everyday...I find my garden (lots of flowers, trees and grass) very relaxing (although today I have a guy doing some yard work that I find too much for me...and that is just fine). I even enjoy mowing the lawn. I have bird feeders and delight in their song and their colorful feathers. My computer is on my kitchen table in front of a large bay window which allows me to see outside...I am fortunate that I have so many windows, it always feels like the outdoors is indoors.

In October, I am going on a European river cruise with a friend and next spring, another golf trip this time to Sedona.

COVID shut so much of life down!!!! And then I felt "scared" for a while about traveling. I also feel my body aches and am more tired than I once was...and have some family and friends who have some diagnoses that you don't realize will ever happen to you.

I feel. That has been the biggest improvement is that I feel normal emotions, I smile, and laugh and enjoy the first few sips of coffee every morning.

Glad to hear that you are getting out and about and doing the things you love!


Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: stillbaffled on July 07, 2023, 03:51:30 PM
OR - good to have an update from you! 

I enjoyed Bryce, Zion and Arches.  Have not been to Canyonlands but it's on the list. 

I had to look up the Zeen.  Glad it has been such a great help to you with mobility. 

I'm also in year 8 post bomb drop and life is, indeed, very good. 
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on October 06, 2023, 12:00:20 AM
It is so good to read all the wonderful things people are doing. There is something very calming? Spiritual? Satisfying? All 3? in pursuing an enjoyable hobby or adventure. Growing something you can eat has its own special quality, but also experiencing the outdoors or art or creativity is  nourishing to the soul, imo. I probably enjoy it so much extra because I thought I would never do much of anything except sit for the rest of my life. I have learned patience like I never thought I could (I do nothing fast anymore, and I used to do everything fast). My mantra is "one thing at a time ".

Life sends you odd things. Last September I was thinking of an old friend. Boyfriend from many years gone by, in fact. I hadn't connected with him in some years so I looked him up on line, found it interesting that he worked on Video games my son plays and thought maybe I'd ping him later and see how he's doing. Then life got in the way.

This September, I thought of him again. When I went to look him up, I found he had died just a few weeks after I'd looked him up the last time, and the final game he had worked on had just been released when I thought of him again.

This left me feeling very odd. In hindsight,  my thinking of him last September was telling me to contact him and I ignored it. Now it's too late. He was a wonderful and special man who used words like "oodles" and "Hakuna matata" before it was trendy (pre Lion King) and the world is a poorer place for the loss of him.  I can't figure out what I actually feel because I know we had met before and I know we'll meet again, crazy as that sounds. Sad for his family, for sure, but for myself, I just don't know what I feel except that I am a better person for having known him, and that I won't be passing up any opportunities to contact someone the next time I think of them out of nowhere.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: MadLuv on October 06, 2023, 02:29:51 AM
Loss is a complex thing and when you also relate it to your past even more so. Something about losing someone who knew you when. Past relationships are a history that when they leave you lose with someone. I am friends with girls I have known since I was in 5th grade and there is something comforting in people knowing you. All of you. The you before, during and after. People that hold your memories are family.  No matter the distance that life brings about. When they leave they take part of it with them that can no longer be shared or reminisced or enjoyed. So very sorry
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: FaithWalker on November 03, 2023, 06:32:06 PM
I'm sorry for your loss OR.  I do understand the feeling of loss to connections from our past, and will also remember this for if I get the same feeling to reach out to someone.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on November 06, 2023, 11:47:04 PM
Thank you MadLuv and FaithWalker. As one of those strange things that happen, shortly thereafter I heard from another friend I hadn't connected with in nearly a year. She just "felt she had to talk to me". Then my son said he was going to be in the area and wanted to get together. We talked for hours, and played on the new old Wii I purchased off of eBay (never used, had the 2006 date when I booted it up). Great find, I still like Link's Crossbow Training, Nerf N-Strike and Mario Cart.

XH just had a contemporary friend die. Per S24, it has really affected him.All I could say to S was "I'm sorry it happened." It's what happens when mlc people drink themselves to death. Alcohol toxicity is real. He went very fast, too. Seems like people are dying at a faster pace than they used to, but it's probably just my current perspective.

Looking forward to a trip to see the Monarch butterflies in Central CA. I went 7 years ago and it was incredible.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on October 08, 2024, 09:28:20 PM
How time flies. My friend and I went to Monterey to visit Butterflies and for me to see the old Pebble Beach homestead. I also recently took a trip solo to traverse a corn maze in an electric wheelchair. So much to explain.

Long time readers know I've been having trouble with my legs since 2020, but in hindsight I can see it had been coming on longer ago than that. 2017 was actually the first time I was unable to finish a hike, and I wrote it off to stress. I have a diagnosis of Arthritis to get my disabled placard, but the problem is in my muscles, not my joint. No doctor has an answer. Certain muscles just seem to stop activating. I am of the "Never give up, never surrender" brigade and in 2022 was finally able to get some of the muscles to start firing again. In November of last year, the first muscle that stopped firing started firing again. Now, however, I do have joint problems because the muscles are so wimpy, but NGUNS.  I use a Zeen (https://gozeen.com/ (https://gozeen.com/)) to travel on anything flat (museums, attractions, stores, some outdoors) and an off road walker or now an off road wheel chair for anything that requires a lot of walking where there might be some hills or uneven terrain. That's background so the rest makes sense.

I lived in Pebble Beach (what my father called the dogpatch section)  in highschool. High school is one of those things that for most people was either awesome or horrible. There are a few middle of the roaders (it was just a thing you had to do, types). For me it was awesome. I lived in the trees, the beach was 15 minutes away and I could ride my bike anywhere I wanted to go (up hills, down hills- the thought of it amazes me now). My friend and I had gone for a visit many years ago, long before BD, and we decided to go again and see the Monarch butterflies.  I took my Zeen, but because the grove is so slanted, had to stay at the top and discovered if I just sat quietly for a considerably long time, I could watch the bundles of butterflies slowly warm up, unfold and separate from the butterfly "bunch" hanging on the trees. They'd come down slowly, drying their wings off and find a sunny spot to finish warming up (this is February in middle California, so chilly). Sometimes the sunny spot was on me. My friend wandered about, but I stayed in the same spot for probably and hour and a half and chatted with people, took pictures and reset my brain.

The following day we went out to Asilomar and drove around the beach. This was my first lesson in ADA does not always mean accessible. I found a blue label parking spot and got out of the car only to find out there was no way to the beach from that particular spot with any kind of walking aid. But I enjoyed the waves and reset my brain again.

The following day we had thought to go to an escape room, but Monterey is quite hilly and there was no parking lot, so we did not go. And once again, I reset my brain.

The following day we went in to Pebble Beach ( the 17 mile drive, or the all over the place drive for those of us who once lived there).  I started by driving up to my old house, I remembered there being tons of pine trees everywhere, and there were so few. I remember house being on huge lots with lots of space between them, yet somehow the houses were crowded. I could see areas I knew were forest before and now a house sat on it. My old house was where it used to be, with a new house crammed in on the side that used to have nothing. And the weirdest part? Houses that I remember being huge, were surprisingly not huge. ( our house was only 1800 sq feet and looked like a bad tract home). I took her on my bike riding tour, then down to the beach. I drove around to a place where this old log mansion burned down late in my senior year (it was boarded up, but that never stopped anyone from getting in. It was magnificent and scary at the same time). The lot it was on was now 8 McMansions and with the forest cleared was amazing to me how close to the water it was, how close to so many streets. Then we went to the Lodge and had dinner and it was exhausting just trying to get from the Blue label parking next to the dumpsters into the Tap Room at the Lodge. And we spoke with people around us who came to eat $100 steak dinners all by themselves 3 or 4 times a week and looked so lonely. At this point my brain was beyond reset, it was short circuiting. Nothing was as I remembered it, not really.

The following day we went to the Aquarium. Fortunately, I found street parking because once again, no parking lot for the Aquarium, and the parking to people use for it is up a side street hill with no elevator or special ramps (though they do have blue label parking), and i wasn't up for  trip down or up a 45 degree hill. The aquarium itself was very nice, and came very close to being accessible. I was still exhausted and the trip back to the car was close to half a mile ove ancient sidewalks, no two sections remotely level. So I asked my friend if she would please go get the car. When she finally arrives, she has a meter maid on her tail who took one look at me and zoomed off. She had been following my non disabled friend because she was parked in a disabled space with a placard. And I got into the car and reset my brain.

The next day my whole body ached, every muscle in it (which makes sense because I use every muscle with the Zeen), so we went and did a drive through the cemetery (we both love cemeteries). This one is so old it has some incredible mausoleums with stained glass and hand made tombstones. The care that went into making some of these was beyond words. And for the first time in the entire trip, I didn't have to reset my brain. It all looked exactly as it should and felt exactly as it should. And I closed the door on my high school life in Monterey.

Wait, what just happened there? My high school life was wonderful, My father was Navy. At the end of high school, we had to move and I didn't want to. In truth, everyone was going off to college anyway, but I didn't get to see that. I just knew I was uprooted from the only place I ever felt like I belonged and brought back to a city that didn't hold great memories to me. For all those years that sat at the back of my mind without my even really knowing it. And I could actually FEEL the door closing on that. Is this what they mean with the MLCers needing to close the door on childhood issues? Do they really mean closing the door on something that isn't finished?

Two years ago my D decided she wanted to sell at Renaissance faires like I used to. I had to give it up because my legs failed, but I went with her to sit in the booth when she needed a break. When tear down time came, it took us five hours (she had hurt her back and my legs were useless. It used to take me 20 minutes to tear down, pack up and be out of there). I had to lift the boxes to her, then she had to carry them to the car, then I had to move to the car and lift them into place. It was a joy. But when we were done, I had closed the door on selling at the Renaissance fair. The legs are done, I don't get to do that any more. I just hadn't realized I closed that door, but I had.

My friend and I were going to go on a corn maze tour this week. I purchased a folding electric wheelchair that is made to go off the beaten trek to traverse the corn mazes and hit a couple of National Parks (hiking used to be one of my favorite pastimes). Her husband ended up in the hospital so she was unable to come with me, so I shortened the trip. One of the joys of the Renn fair mentioned above was to go to a corn maze in the area and spend two hours in the dark finding the stations. (https://www.vosslerfarms.com/corn-maze-2024 (https://www.vosslerfarms.com/corn-maze-2024)). And I was going this year, by gum. So I did. Scissors lift the chair out, and off I go. It would have worked if there hadn't been more people than I was expecting. I kept moving to the side and getting stuck, but I am still mobile enough to unstick myself, though people did help me twice.  I was about 3/4 done when I came very close to hurting someone. When the chair hits a bump, it does a random jump to one side or the other. my hand is on the joystick and that doesn't help, so I can't always control where it ends up. And I can't have that, hurting anyone, so I left and very sadly closed the door on the corn mazes, at least for now. I was going to head to Sequoia, but my body hurt so bad after unsticking myself a half dozen times, I gave that a pass this time, but didn't close to door on that. :)

I suppose the point of all this is that at this point in my life, with my legs not doing what I want them to do (though they are much better), I find that I had a darned good life and when I close the door on something from the past, there is only sorrow for what was and will never be again but the original memories remain. The good times, the joy, the fear, the sorrow, the sadness, the adventures, the things I once saw or experienced and may never again. I might see it differently now, but that doesn't change how it WAS for me at the time.

Just like my marriage. It wasn't perfect, but it was perfectly fine, with good and bad. And it is often hard for me to understand how the other half of that partnership cannot remember anything good out of it. And I think of how sad it must be to have 23 years of your life have no meaning at all.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: sachertorte on October 09, 2024, 07:02:16 PM
Thank you for that generous and lovely sharing OR! I hope your health improves soon. You have so much grace and spirit it's wonderful to see.

I grew up in Silicon Valley, and made it down to Monterey quite a few times. I thought I detested high school, and then when I recently read the journal I kept religiously, I realized that I had a ton of breaks and so many caring peers and teachers. Doesn't mean the problems I contended with were not real; they were also documented and hinted at. But the radiance wins out.

Your musings show me a lot. I want to say as an immigrant to the US I can completely relate to the feeling of being uprooted. And yet I grew to love everything. I feel so much love in your descriptions, and remember seeing the butterflies and the water - in 1990, in 1996, in 1999 on my honeymoon (like yours, now discredited by the other person who owns that memory), and 2004. Let us be the only ones to remember. Like my journals, we have incontrovertible proof that, for at least us, joy transcends time and transient needs.

Hugs.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: FaithWalker on October 09, 2024, 08:54:17 PM
We drove down the coast last Summer and I did enjoy Monterey and Pebble Beach and Carmel By The Sea.  We did not make it to the aquarium, which I regret.

The butterflies sound amazing.  I love butterflies.

I'm so sorry that things that you used to love are so difficult now.  It is very tough.  Struggling with our bodies not doing what they are supposed to do is so hard.  I have only had a few months here and there of some struggles with not being able to hike.  I feel for you so much. 
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on December 25, 2024, 05:20:15 PM
Interesting things to note: XH was looking for his folder with his dyslexia information because he needed to take a test for some certification. He asked D 28 if she knew where it was. She told him to ask me. Incredibly, he emailed me asking, very politely, if I knew where it was. He described the folder( wrong description) and tried to explain to me what was in it (as if I hadn't gone over it a million and one times trying to help the kids who had similar issues).  I knew exactly what it was and where it was, so I dug it out and found an old mini tape player ( there were two mini tapes in it) and responded that I found it, described the folder correctly (so he could identify it when he got it), told him I found a mini tape player for it and I would send it with D to his parents house since he was coming for Christmas. I then said I was sorry that thought processes hadn't changed much and that people equated test taking speed with intelligence.

He responded "Oh, that's great. I had kind of resigned myself to needing to skim the test and try to speed-run it. Thanks so much for finding it!"  This is the most human he has been in 9 years. So I responded "No worries. I'm sure you would have managed. Experience has taught you all kinds of compensation techniques."

S25 came to stay with me for Christmas, but he and D28 went to gparents to bake cookies with their Dad and OW. They return with cookies, and D hand me a tin with the explanation "This is an olive branch from dad. He said the last few interactions with you (me)were very nice" I was no more or less nice than I have been oh so many times before, but I guess I was painted white right then.

Inside was his home made peanut brittle, though 1000 times better than he used to make it by my standards.  It had about 1/4 of the peanuts he used to put in it (I had told him many years ago I preferred fewer peanuts, and that was always ignored). It wasn't made on cookie day. When I did the math,  he either made it the day before leaving to drive this way or had already made it and maybe it was not originally intended for me. But for some reason he felt the need to give me the peanut brittle I had asked for for 23 years and never got. At this point, all I could do when I opened it was laugh. It's hard to explain, but I found it hilarious that I was just as nice as I had always been during a decent human interaction, yet "I" was somehow different to him. I no longer cared if there were the amount of peanuts I liked. I no longer cared if he gave me anything. I had only done the right thing, which happened to appear to be some kindness to him. This week.

That story is for those who wonder if they will ever be OK if their X never comes back. A resounding YES! You will be ok. You may have many "Huh, how about that?" moments at some point, but you'll be just fine.

Next interesting thing to note: last night I was able to walk down my hallway and back with only two walking sticks. I showed the kids. D was excited and impressed. Merry Christmas to me!

And Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it. Happy Hanukkah for those who celebrate it, Happy Kwanza for those who celebrate it, and hope you had a Merry Yule for those who celebrate that. Whatever you celebrate this time of year, I wish you wonderful!
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: MadLuv on December 29, 2024, 12:38:55 PM
What a “how about that” story. I guess those moments done mean a massive amount in the place we end up, but even if they don't see the years before correctly maybe these moments mean that they see things now more correctly?  No need to keep rewriting the history? For whatever reason I think I would find a little comfort in knowing that FINALLY maybe they realize in some small way for even a moment we arent so bad. But, like you I would also be chuckling.  Last time I talked with XH I found myself chuckling to him saying “ it doesn’t matter at this point. Nothing surprises me”  Aint that the truth!!!
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: Flummoxed on December 31, 2024, 09:42:28 PM
OffRoad, amazing news about your walk!! 💗 Additionally, thank you for sharing your “how about that” story. No matter how many threads I read, research I dive into, conversations I have with others-  this will never cease to amaze me. But I’m so glad there’s hope in time that someday one can just laugh it off and shake one’s head. It is what it is and we move forward.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: OffRoad on August 20, 2025, 11:19:38 PM
Thank you, MadLuv and Flummoxed. I don't write here much, but sometimes like to let people know that the single life isn't so bad. I suppose I might be able to find someone if I wanted, though it is tough when one isn't very mobile, I'm just not sure I want anyone. I'll just let my life continue to unfold.

I went to Yosemite in June. My friend had never been and that was supposed to be part of the October adventure that she had to cancel, so now that her life had evened out, I invited her along. Last time I went it was winter and incredible. 4 foot icicles hanging from overhangs, crystalline ice covering the ground where the snow had melted and reformed, ice covered streams. It was like being to an entirely different park in June. Once again, I was faced with ADA does not mean a disabled person can actually use anything, but I'm all about making do. Suggestion: Don't stay at Cedar Lodge, even if you aren't disabled. Stay at the south end if you don't stay in the park.

Nonetheless, the scenery was beautiful. There were still full waterfalls and wildlife galore. At one point I was getting ready to get the wheelchair out of the car and a couple of very nice young men gave us a hand. Warms my heart that there are still people like that out there. (I can actually do it without the lift if I have one other person and myself, but I'll take the help). There were a few trails that were chairable and I really enjoyed that.

I remembered one time when I went with XH and his parents and I had booked the rooms at a certain price. When we got there, they tried to charge me more and I pulled out my reservation sheet and said that this is the cost I was quoted. The desk person tried this song and dance, XH's mother wanted to just pay the extra, but I would have none of it and they finally honored the reservation cost. At the time I was made to feel like I was in the wrong by both the desk person and Xh's mother, but I knew I was not. And I realized now that who I am is not someone who rolls over and plays dead, yet at the end when XH was behaving so badly and I was so confused, I came very close to becoming someone who rolls over and plays dead. It is mind boggling to me now. I now sometimes think that the universe did me a favor and saved me.

It was a great trip and when I came home I started putting up new blinds, It takes about an hour per blind because it's remove the old blinds, rest, remove a bracket, rest,  remove a bracket, rest. Put up the new brackets, rest, put up the new blind, rest. But hey, I'm still putting up my own blinds. Another person would be handy, though. ;D  None of this is how I thought my life would end up, but adventures abound.

I hope everyone has wonderful adventures! Someone recommend a National Park for my next trip.
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: JohnnyBravo on August 21, 2025, 06:07:59 AM
I hope everyone has wonderful adventures! Someone recommend a National Park for my next trip.

I thought Glacier NP in Montana was pretty amazing; It's been a while, so I don't recall how ADA-friendly they were. Someday I'm hoping to take a long ride back there and continue up into Banff.

I was hoping to ride through Rocky Mountain NP a couple of years ago, but didn't realize they had timed entry on the only through-road in the entire area. I had to backtrack and it really screwed up the day.

Kudos on the blinds!

JB
Title: Sometimes the most scenic roads in life are the detours you didn’t mean to take
Post by: FaithWalker on September 04, 2025, 08:23:33 PM
My relatives just got back from Glacier National Park and loved it.

I say Glacier or maybe Olympic.  Not sure what the ADA options are though.

Wow, hanging blinds!  Go you!  I need new blinds and don't think I could do any of them myself lol.  The damage that was done by being married to a builder.  He didn't take the time to teach me any of that and I got too comfortable allowing him to do all that for me.