Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: OldPilot on March 05, 2011, 12:38:52 PM
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Link to original thread "Questions about the affair/OM/OW"
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=30.0
Sorry Still didn't mean to run with your thread!
FTR this thread was started last JULY, I drug it up from the basement.
And StillHere hasn't posted since September
So hijack away!
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OP: That's too bad..I mean about the lawyer and screaming at you..
It really is great when you know a truth about yourself isn't it? When you know your in love with them even though they've "checked out" to a certain extent. I feel very safe interacting with men because of it.... because I know it can't go very far.
It's just so much fun to renforce some kind of I don't know what the heck you call it..desireablity I guess for want of a better word. And the laughter is the bonus!!
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It's just so much fun to renforce some kind of I don't know what the heck you call it..desireablity I guess for want of a better word. And the laughter is the bonus!!
Yes Words of Affirmation. Can't you tell that is one of my Love Languages.
Of course it is second to TOUCH. :) :) :)
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OK you better stop right there.. I'm going on 3 years without anything of that kind.. I've got a minister coming over here in about an hour and need to keep pure thoughts!!
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I have to say I haven't laughed this much since BD. Thanks for cheering me up.
Butterfly
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Me too B'Fly
Hey OP damn you!!! I gotta go take a shower..guess I better make it a cold one!!
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Me too B'Fly
Hey OP damn you!!! I gotta go take a shower..guess I better make it a cold one!!
Well I would come keep you warm but then again you are on three years and I am at about 2 years so that might not work too well.! :) :)
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Or .. maybe better than we think ;) PLEASE DON"T GET ME STARTED!!
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I'm telling V. She better set sail tonight!
Butterfly
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You all are crazy in a good way! Thanks for the laughs! :P
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Well what can I say. I am standing for OP. I know he's done me wrong but I'm sure we will have an r one day when he's through replay.
Until then I will live as if....sigh. xxxx
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(http://dl2.glitter-graphics.net/pub/164/164112cyg057wt9p.gif) (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)
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Well it was good of you to come out of the coma. I thought you'd been kidnapped by pirates. Let me check your face for whiskerburn. You can't leave a man unattended shmoopie.
Women can be sneaky. INITFTLH lost a perfectly good man in produce.
Better keep a watch out for women buying vegetables .
Butterfly
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B
I know me and OP can get through this. Clearly veg and maybe even certain kinds of fruit are a bandaid for h in his torment. But I can detach and will gal.
And if he continues with his philandering I will sue his a**** off.
I know he will get there.
Xxxx
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OK please don't say anything to OP, because this is a secret. And Initforwhatever had better keep out out of it, know what I mean girlfriend.
Anyway. Between us, I'm rapidly going off OP. He's never turned up for one thing, bit of a minus. I haven't actually met him yet. Not that that is necessarily a hindrance. In fact some may say its a blessing. :) :) :)
I just can't bring myself to trust him, I really don't know why..... :o :o :o :o
I'm thinking of putting our relationship up on ebay, what do you think???
Unless of course he displays true remorse and promises never to stray again....do you all think he can do that??? ::) ::) ::) ::)
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OK the ministers gone where are we???.. I see V is back.
No sign of OP guess I scared him ..
Hey I resent being part of replay V!!!
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V
The relationship with OP is going nowhere. He and Initwhatever were talking about cold showers and warm noses or something. I don't think Initwhatever can be trusted. She's on the rebound after that unfortunate supermarket incident.
I really think we should try to find a nice man at the Farmers Market. Maybe someone selling melons.
I don't know about eBay, but you can see if he gets any hits.
He says he can Salsa, so play that up in the description.
You're right. We should keep this between us.
Butterfly
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Initwhatever
How was the dinner and a movie? Did Grandpa fall asleep?
You didn't scare him with any quick moves did you?
Butterfly
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Nope he didn't fall asleep..and I got another dinner invitaion.. do you think I should tell OP?
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Not yet. Be mysterious. I think V is going to dump him soon.
Then the coast will be clear.
Butterfly
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Ok.. so what's the plan? Do we lie in wait for OP to stick his head out?
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Stalk him at his dance class. You may have to learn to Salsa.
Butterfly
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Voyager aka - OP's would be, schmoopie
I know me and OP can get through this. Clearly veg and maybe even certain kinds of fruit are a bandaid for h in his torment. But I can detach and will gal.
And if he continues with his philandering I will sue his a**** off.
I know he will get there.
Omg- Sideways is laughing so hard her head is resting on arm on desk.
Butterfly and iiftlh- L-M-A-O!!!!!!! You guys are to funny!!
Wow, I am seeing material for next weeks episode of
"As the MLC Turns"
ministers and produce , warm showers and touching, 3 years man oh man...salsa dancing pirates...h-e-m-l-o-ck....mmhmmm. I see mayhem in the works.
Sideways
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OK that's your job you get do the episodes you are sooo good at that..we got the material and if not with all the EA's going on we'll make something up!.
I don't know what happened to OP?? Should we worry about this??
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"Introduction to basic rythmic structure and movement.
Designed for the novice!"
OP,
If there is a pole, it isn't salsa dancing. Just because they serve chips and speak only Spanish, doesn't make it salsa.(http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-10209.gif) (http://planetsmilies.net)
Off you go........(http://planetsmilies.net/cool-smiley-9005.gif) (http://planetsmilies.net)
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Yep OP working a pole that's what I want to see..I can't believe Still brought this back to the top ( again)!!
I gotta make dinner and get my car unstuck from the snow... Were's BUTTERLY??
V.????. it's starting again!!! :o :o
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I can't believe Still brought this back to the top ( again)!!
Don't blame me! OP linked it to my thread.
I think OP likes to have all these women talking about him. (http://planetsmilies.net/obscene-smiley-1043.gif) (http://planetsmilies.net)
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Hey I just got a GREAT MLCer cd!! Maybe OP could do some dances to it!!
The titles is perfect it's called
ALL THE ROAD RUNNING
and most of the songs work for my situation anyway.
It's the lead singer from Dire Straits Mark Knopfler and Emmy Lou Harris.....Here are the lyrics to one song titled "Right Now" ( Nice upbeat) It's kind of funny..I think
Miles between us here we are
Side beside in a stranded car
Right now, baby right now
And it's too dark to see
Anyhow so where are we? :o
Right now,baby, right now
You could say we've both come down
To a place called lonesome town :'(
When did you loose a hold on me
Anyhow?
and where are we
Right now?,oh , baby right now
We stood up and said 'I do'
Vowed to see each other through
Right now, baby right now
I'm looking down this road tonight
And I don't seem to see a light
Right now, baby right now
If we're so clever tell me how
Were waiting for the wrecker now? ::)
Let's forget what used to be
Anyhow and where are we
Right now,oh baby right now
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It's OK Still I know it's not your fault..
That sneaky OP ....he only works six days...dropped off the radar on Sunday when he needed to show some REMORSE.
We turn up the heat and he bugs out!!
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Are you people drinking? It's not the weekend.
Still, you do the shmoopie video. It's ur calling.
Butterfly
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I think OP likes to have all these women talking about him. (http://planetsmilies.net/obscene-smiley-1043.gif) (http://planetsmilies.net)
I have been found out.
I want to know what MAN on this forum wouldn't like all the women talking about him????? :) :) :)
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Still, you do the shmoopie video. It's ur calling.
LoL, Butterfly.
The other day, my S10 was making a video on the computer. When he pushed play, I about fell out of my seat when the schmoopie voices started talking for his characters. Luckily, his videos are completely innocent!
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Still
I love that icon you're using for OP! TOOOO Funny!!
And OP
We know you love this ego stroke thing...but you better be careful..you're starting to remind me of my ExH more and more.
I thought maybe this spring I could lure ExH back in with some sexy underwear and a bag of fiddlehead ferns ( since they'll be in season then) but now that he doesn't want to ever see another fiddlehead Fern IN HIS LIFE...I wonder if just the underwear will work??
Must be that quote below from the flyer info "basic rythmic structure and movement" got me started ..again.. ::) JEEZ!
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Hey STill-
Do you have the address for any of the shmoopie videos?
My d18 swears they are being used in a GEICO commercial she saw online but she has to see the characters again.
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In This,
The Schmoopies are in the Geico commercial. My son tv'ed it and showed it to me.
L
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Oh NO!!! You've got to be kidding me!! I'll have to let d18 know she's right.
Maybe Geico should start offering some kind of insurance from MLCER's to provide financial securty for when they go bug $hit on us like this..
Problem is Geico would be broke in no time flat!! :o
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ITFTLH,
I think LifeGoesOn has all the Schmoopie links.
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I have been found out.
I want to know what MAN on this forum wouldn't like all the women talking about him????? :) :) :)
Right that's it, you're supposed to be marrying me, I just bought the dress today, JustAsking has bought a hat. Cost her a fortune by the way.......
You're having a hundred different EA's, and now added Still to the list.
Right i'm on my way over.........You'll be dancing to a different tune by the time i've finshed with you. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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V/OP,
Will you two quit the flirting already!!!????!!!
Just kidding. ;)
L
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I concede to you, V.
I will be happy just to be a bride's maid. Maybe I have to be a bride's matron....
Oh, heck. I'll just cut the cake.
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This reminds me of the time StillStanding said he was going to spend the night in a hotel room with his wife and make her never want to leave. I had hotflashes all day on that one...and I am not even menopausal!
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L
I'm not flirting, i'm furious >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I've been betrayed...again. LBSx2 who would believe it? :o :o
Still, ok sweetie I forgive you, perhaps you can make the cake in the shape of OP and we can cut it together...starting with the head. :o :o
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Oh, heck. I'll just cut the cake.
I'll just eat it.......cuz I heard there was a test involving golf balls and hoses.....
:o :o :o :o :o
http://soulmateshmoopies.wordpress.com/
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Oh, heck. I'll just cut the cake.
I'll just eat it
Then you will be cake eating! :) :) :)
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Yeah well make the cake in the image of my ExH and I'll tell you what part of his anatomy I'd like to cut off!! >:( >:(
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Yeah well make the cake in the image of my ExH and I'll tell you what part of his anatomy I'd like to cut off!! >:( >:(
Which part? (http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticon-critic/rude/images/d!ckhead.gif) (http://wwwmyemoticons.com)
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ROFLMAO!!! THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY!! HOORAY FOR LGO!!
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OMG - i love the way it moves. :o :o :o :o :o
It's the stuff of nightmares.........although in my fevered state i look at it and think, hey as long as it's attached to someone...but who???
NOT OP THAT's FOR SURE. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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LGO!!!
OMG!!!!
THAT"S TOOOOOO FUNNY!!!
Girl WHERE did you find that icon!!
YOU ARE BAD!!!
We're gonna get kicked off this site!
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myemoticons.com
Yes it is a bit rude. I can take it down if someone finds it offensive instead of funny. ::)
laughter is the best medicine for anything.....
Sometimes a picture is better than a thousand words....
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I CAN'T BREATH!!!!!!!!!!! ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!HELP!!!!!!! And it MOVES!!!!!!LOLOLOL
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That is adorable! I bet if we made them for real they would sell faster then hotcakes...
hugs don't take it down... it's cute... Stayed...
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I bet if we made them for real
I married one!!!! Next time :o the hat comes off BEFORE the wedding!
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I'm ashamed to even be a part of all this!!! ...NOT!!
Gosh and they say men are bad,,we women can really be not so nice when it comes right down to it ...But how's that saying go?
"Hell hath no fury....".
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OMG cannot believe what I have just seen. You people should be so ashamed of yourselves (lol)
Even though it is free, single and unattached, it still doesn't look happy does it. Must be having a MLC.
XX
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No Glimmer you are right it doesn't look very happy.... and from it's expression it doesn't seem to know what to do about it either... must be MLC
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Okay, am I the only one that thinks it looks like Patrick Star from Sponge-Bob Squarepants (possibly with a migraine)!!
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THAT'S WHERE I"VE SEEN THOSE EYES BEFORE!!..and the stupid expression!!! ROFLMAO!!
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I'll bet OP is soooo happy he drug this thread back up from the basement.... ::)
Bet he doesn't do that again! ;)
Us damn bunch of sex starved women just take things and run with them...
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OMG...LMAO AHHHH.
It DOES look like Patrick Starfish. It looks.... dissatisfied, does it not?
It's name is Richard Cranium. lol
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One question that I've had in the back of my mind since this started is
Do MLCers typically have friends if an alienator is involved?
Clearly my MLCer is isolated from most old family and friends but I'm not sure if there is a new group. He works 40 minutes away from our city and I don't know if he's met people from their or if his reference to "a friend" is alienator or actual friends.
Every once in awhile he'll bring stuff up in front of me and say.."a friend of mine...BLAH..BLAH...BLAH"
WTF would be his friend right now? :o :o :o I thought the nature of alienator is that she isolates him or does she simply isolate him from his "old life"..
Anyway would love to hear others experiences. I've gotta run.
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Up until just before Xmas he had nothing to do with his friends and now he has one friend the was our friend. He still is my friend but I am just happy H has started to connect with someone. Anyone.
He still has nothing to do with his closest friends though which is sad. They are waiting for him though only one has decided never to have anything to do with him. Which I find terribly sad. They did soo much together. I think the alienator drags him into their life their friends and in some cases they assume their friends as their own.
H has never said that keeping ow's friends as not his friends and her family as hers. A comment I made as ow sis had a baby about him being an uncle again (wasn't meant as a dig just a natural comment ugh) had him furious. H has been different to some MLCs here in many ways tho.
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My exH didn't really have any true male friends. We had his brother and his wife as our going places together but and very few "social friends"...........most of the people were work related friends. He claims he didn't know how to make friends........tried to invite guys for lunch and or go out for a drink/dinner but he said when they refuse or can't go for whatever reason then he's "done"...........doesn't try again. It's like he has issues with knowing how to be a friend. Since he left me though he has made slight referrals to being with a "friend" or speaks of a single female who lives in the same apartment complex. He dumped his OW a while back and claims that he regrets being with her and doesn't have anything else to do with her but I don't honestly know that for a fact. I also don't know if he is seeing someone even though he told me back in November that he wasn't involved with anyone. He once sent me a picture of cats via text message and said he was "visiting friends". He used the term "friends" a lot in the beginning (even referred to OW as just a "friend"........and that he didn't have very many). So, maybe the issue of not knowing how to make friends is something he needs to work on. Who knows?
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Friends, was a huge issues for my jacka**, he didn't have any, didn't know how to relate. He keep screaming that he and I didn't have any friends. Friends, friends, that was huge with him, Well he end up making friends with 20 year old ones who weren't married and this is when he reached out to the $l()t (I believe). One day he made me list all my friends, and he had to count his too. He had more then me and laugh at me. However red necks, who fish into a bucket in there living room is not my idea of a friend, or someone who will sleep with a married man, not friend material. I don't have a lot of friends, (outside of all you here that is) I'm careful, who I trust and I enjoy my time. I don't need a large quantity of friends, I never have. I personally don't think that is bad but he did. Well, that is me, and still is. I remember when my D did this a few years ago, counting friends, probably where he got the idea. Anyways, he didn't have many friends only one, and he goes over and talks about how horrible a wife I was to him. He told me he is pretty sure my H is miserable. Good is all I can say to that, not miserable enough to dump the $l()t, but not living the life we all envision them to be. He carried on to D one day a few months ago, that they (choke, choke) are just a home bodies. So maybe this friend obsession has passed. However I doubt he faced not one issue, so it and all the rest will be back. And guess what its her problem not mine. Like I said, she wanted to walk in my shoes, well b!tc# you got it.
Little pissy today, well ok a lot
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It's hard to say with my H cuz he lies so much about/around ow situation. I know he started teaching classes to a group of herwork-friends years ago. Was she in the class? Maybe, IDK. Right after BD this group of people started to become his social circle outside of the classes, ow included. He also dated ow alone every week. Around the holidays h went to several occassions with these people. He claims he was the only 'single' guy there. ::) That doesn't mean that ow wasn't there. She may have been there with her husband. Wonder what happened on the overnight at the camp? :o As far as h's old friends, he went to see them once, told them he was divorcing, and then he hasn't seen them since. Not sure what that means. Whenever he had time/energy he chose dating ow over seeing old buddies.
BStar
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My H pushed everyone away except one friend while he was with Ow. Now that he ended the affair , he has reconnected with several friends. He lives with me but not ready to reconnect and recommit with me. Maybe he never will with me but wants his friends back..who knows.
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My H has pretty much isolated himself, from what I can see.
I think his main communication is with his parents and his high school girlfriend (who lives in another state - but seems quite willing to come to see him).
He has cut off pretty much everyone else - including his kids.
L
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My H isolated himself from his "normal" friends for a looooong time. He only surrounded himself with people that agreed with what he was doing - those people being "new" friends that didn't know me! With the exception of one mutual friend, who recently told my H that his girlfriend was a freak and to go back to his wife - haha!
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My w has also isolated herself and basically only has her friends online. It is a combination of guilt and not wanting to face the fact of having to talk about om with other people.
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My h has never had lots of close friend's. Gets along with everybody but only close to three or four people. He has adopted OWs friend's and family. They rarely interact with his family. I am not aware of them meeting any of our mutual friend's. Most of whom would never speak to him again as long as he's with her.
Butterfly
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My H never had a lot of male friends...and this came up at the start of his MLC...the lack of close male R...and he blamed OUR R for it...saying I was the reason he didn't have these connections...Well I HAVE CLOSE AUTHENTIC FRIENDSHIPS and I've been in a R with H all these years so why hasn't it prevented ME from finding friendship..He tended to be close friends with woman/girls most of his life. It never bothered me ...he was flirty and a good guy and I NEVER felt threatend...EVER...I always trusted him and he NEVER cheated on me....I KNOW this for sure...the reason I know is because when he was cheating on me my intuition told me...it was screaming at me...I had visions of it..I had signs everwhere...and I had all these knowings but no evidence so it drove me crazy.
My feeling is that it is OW's family perhaps and maybe her friends.
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Dear Buggs,
Your h does need some male friends. First of all, they would have all told him what a hot wife he has!!!! Had they seen ow and you, they would have told him he was absolutely nuts. Why would anyone straight up trade a shiny red Porshe for an old Ford Pinto? Then they would asked him if it was okay to date you!!!! LOL
Ready
PS- More posts on scarfs and plaid dresses, okay?
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My H keeps all his family and his one or two pre MLC friends at arms length. He was never one for going out much before MLC, and we would spend any free time together. He has never spoken to any of them about our situation, he kindly left that for me to do.
He now has a new group of friends, OW is a part of this group. I believe most of them are college tutors and OW introduced H to them. They apparently share a lot of interests, running, walking, good conversation etc. None of them know me so who knows what picture he has painted of me.
I don't imagine any of them know the 'real' H though, as he has only socialised with them all since his MLC.
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I'd like to add that my exH is very close to his brother (twin) and SIL. They totally "dumped" me as soon as he left me. I tried several times to contact them as I thought they might care enough to at least give me some comfort..........but nadda! They told him they didn't want to get "involved" but yet they already knew about OW and actually "protected" his "friendship" with her and defended it like I was the bad guy. I was so hurt and completely shocked. It really makes me wonder about people who can treat others so indifferent in such a sudden way. I didn't do a thing to either of them........blood thicker than water? Of course, I have no idea what he may have told them.........made me out to be a wicked witch, I suppose. I know it had to be horrible and mostly all lies! He later told me that they thought I never liked them.........really? Give me a break! So, he stays in contact with them and I'm sure they go out to dinner together and probably other things. I wonder about his somewhat "odd" relationship with SIL though. It seems to me that he might be a little too close......if you catch my drift. They were friends and worked together before his brother married her..........hmmmmmm.
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However red necks, who fish into a bucket in there living room is not my idea of a friend, or someone who will sleep with a married man, not friend material.
Mercury......this laugh was worth a million bucks to me today! ;D I REALLY needed it!!
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OK... so most of the replies indicates that MLCers don't have much friends, but in the same token they are also lying to us. So my follow up question is... what makes us think that they don't have new friends that we are not aware of ? Friends that agrees to what they are doing, and or friends that believes their story about their Ex's that they left behind.
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ECE
I think that is the magic question. I don't ask much because really I NEED to stay out of it but I do wonder if there are people who buy into his BS and in my sitch they have to be pretty emotionally immature and DELUSIONAL to believe it...but I'm sure they're out there.
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That's just it..........we all know they are not themselves and that nothing they say is honest but others don't see them like we do. It's like they are two different people. I'm so amazed that his brother/sister-in-law can't see that somethings not right about him. Nobody in their right mind does all the damage that he did.......spending all the money buying stuff........plus, buying things for the OW and be normal! I mean, really? Who buys 4 vehicles and two motorcycles, an apartment full of furniture, clothes, electronics, etc. in 6 months time and be alright? That's not normal! But we, the LBS'ers are the crazy ones? I honestly don't know if my exH is with anybody or not. I don't know if he's making new friends or not. I know that most of the people we know are supportive of me. They see that he's not acting himself and most of them are so disappointed in how he treated me.........but nobody will confront him and talk to him. I don't know. I feel so lost and alone in this situation........even though this site is full of people just like me going through the same thing. Unbelievable! I just don't know any more.
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My husband had lots of friends and a big family. But after BD, he pretty much isolated himself from his family and friends. Over time he started spending time with his brothers , but has really only kept in contact with one of his male friend simply because that friend made the effort. Most of his friends got angry at him and have given up on him. One friend of his really made my day when I ran into him. He said he had gone to a nascar race with my H and met the OW. He said he wanted to ask my husband what kind of car ran over her face. I got a great laugh and real moral boost with that. I suspect he has a new group of friends, much younger, from his workplace as our son has mentioned a few names I was familiar with from his place of work. He even alienates himself from his son, as the only time my son sees his dad is when he initiates it. Pretty sad for my son!!
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In reality, the form very superficial friendships with others if at all. The depression and the lies are enough to rob them of their energy. My w really doesn't hang out with anybody or has any real close friends. She has stupid om, but all of her close friends have stopped talking to her and dealing with her since she won't give up om and ignores her own children. The only thing that gets momma bears just as upset with someone hurting their kids is when they see someone ignoring their own kids.
I don't think they hate her, they have just left her behind. However, if she started working for her family again, I think they would welcome her back to the fold.
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My H keeps all his close friends at arms length as well. He has managed to visit all of his friends with OW.
but only to introduce, but has not went back.
H talks to 1 male friend at work. OW is from NY, so she has no friends here. H did finaly reconnect with his M
after them not speaking since Dec. So that was a good sign.
All his friends are dumb founded and most think he needs someone to knock him out. LOL Most of our friends
do NOT like the OW and refuse to speak to her.
As far as I know, They have not found "new" friends.
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My husband has only ever had one close friend.... a few ne'er do well acquaintances and susceptible to con artists.
We moved here to PA to be near my family, so they could support me since he traveled constantly for business.... but it's all one big backfire. Now he has NO friends, except for OW :o
He's still in touch with his BEST friend in Texas, but only after months of isolating and not returning phone calls, I'm sure because this friend questioned the wisdom of throwing his family away for the Holiday Inn ho-tel maid...
He has isolated from his Mother... and other family members that tried to connect with him on FB.... NOW, he has called his Mom recently, multiple times from OUR house...
He has lamented before that he DOESN'T HAVE ANY FRIENDS!! Well, I don't have any friends here, either... and somehow I get by, alone and lonely as I am.
They are incapable of being a good friend... they are black holes of neediness and only OW can attempt to fill that need with her desperation.
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FWIW, my H totally disconnected from pretty much all his old friends, certainly from our social circle. He stayed in touch with some who shared his main hobby, but from what he tells me, they never 'talked' as people; it was pretty much all about their activity. He developed a completely new set of acquaintances as far as I can tell.
People who had run into him said that he was always with a completely different crowd. My H is very social, so he will find people to be with, but I don't know how deep any of those 'friendships' run.
Right now he has actually suddenly seen two of our very oldest friends; I said that he was "introducing his new self" to them; I guess that's part of the process.
One of the things he had told a mutual acquaintance when justifying his leaving was that we had completely different friends... so he was already disconnecting from a lot of the people in our lives even before BD.
All signs of depression.
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When my H kindly took me out for a romantic meal and told me about his 'friendship' with OW, he said she had TOLD HIM that our marriage was in trouble and he agreed with her. I have no idea what he had told her about me. She was going through a divorce herself from an abusive marriage, so I guess it was a classic case of H being her knight in shining armour and rescuing her, as she would talk about her problems to him and vice versa.
All his new friends live about 50 miles away from me, so there is no chance of me ever meeting any of them, so I suppose he can carry on his affair pretty much in the open, as they will only have heard his side of the story.
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I don't know if my h. has made any new friends since living with OW; however, he told one of our children in a bemused way that it was a bit strange as OW was normally very social yet did not like having people come to the house.
When one old friend visited it seems OW spent a lot of time lying down due to a bad back.
My d. said 'oh, just like your mother' and he just said yes.
From what I can gather he is becoming more and more isolated - he even said his 'work friends' had told him that things need to calm down (he & OW work together) before anyone is comfortable with the situation.
His main social outlet seems to be with our children.
When D17 visited her dad at his house recently for the first time OW insisted that he help with chores and D17 was left on her own for nearly an hour whilst he ran around doing things. D17 told D25 that she could not believe how he was behaving. She has no plans to go back.
Seems to me that these alienators deliberately set about isolating the MLCer.
CrazyStuff
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My ExH had only one really good friend and has let that go. He has his band buddies but I don't think it's the same.
I had a LONG talk with the wife of the couple who ExH was friends with the husband; well both of them actually ( ExH stood up with them when they got married over 27 years ago and attened high school with the other H)
In this converstion we had she has been very supportive of me through the whole thing..trouble is she is finding it REALLY hard to accept me possibly going back because of the infidelity.
Whole thing just grosses her out..who doesn't it gross out? She's lost a lot of respect for him and is totally disgusted especially that he moved that "Thing" into our house for 3 months.
We had some REALLY good times together. ExH and that friend of his worked so well with humour we would laugh our rear ends OFF! I mean run- for- the- bathroom- pee -your- pants- beer shoot- out -your- nose kind of thing.
We'd play cards, go out in thier boat, eat dinner at each others houses, celebrate birthdays and anniversaries.
When BD happened we hadn't seen them in a long time. Thier daughter had a baby and the baby was the focus. They never could manage coming to see us and if we went down there the baby was always there. Nothing againest babies just you really can't do much with a baby getting attention all the time. So the space between us all grew.
I had mentioned a funny thing to D18 a few days ago that happened with the four of us and she said "Gee mom it's really sad that won't ever happen again". I smiled at her and said "Don't think that way..you never really know" :)
So anyway this friend and I talked for about 2 hours. We usually chat once a week. Her daughter who's only been married about three years fouind out her husband was cheating on her ( they are in thier mid twenties) She took the baby and left. So now my friend has been trying to deal with her daughter dealing with that..and they haven't been getting along very well.
This friend of mine is a very forgiving sort and she even admitted that she missed ExH and the laughter we all shared and I told her I wish he would call her H. And both of us agreed that time is a great healer and maybe ..just maybe that may happen again. If we can get ExH out of the rabbit hole he fell into. :)
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Hi,
My H, has abandoned everyone, friends, family, everyone and disappeared down to the south of England where the OW and her friends are. It's as though he has shut off his "previous life" and everyone associated with it. We have two mutual friends that work for his Company and my H has alienated them too! I suppose it's easy to invent a new life with people who don't know you and who you can re-write history with, rather than have to explain your actions to friends, family etc.,
It's all so very sad.....
Fox xxx
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Hi Buggy31,
My ex gave me a little "inside" info about her friends when she came home for a few in a depression. She stated to me that "her friends" were really not friends and didn't really care about her, that none of them ever helped out when the chips were down.
My ex did surround herself with a few people at her work and REALLY believed they were her real friends as she was starting her "new" life. She tried really hard to fit in with them, and I agree with the person who stated "who knows what she said about me to them."
She has since started a new job and I believe Facebook is her only friend now for the reasons the other person here stated.
Rookie13
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My H has not been in contact with any of our friends who were like an extended family , we celebrated birthdays did all holidays together etc. He ignores their texts etc - he didn't even bother to reply to texts inviting him to a close friends 50th later this year. Contact with son and daughter is also initiated by them , so a fairly typical MLC pattern :o
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Here's an interesting article I found at www.theylivehappilyeverafter.com
It was something I was going to send to OW but decided she wasn't worth it.
Never Help a Cheat
Perhaps you've heard this idea before: "Why shouldn't I get involved with a married man/woman? I'm not cheating on anyone."
Strictly speaking, this is true - you're not committing adultery, unless you're married as well. If you aren't married, then isn't adultery really only an issue for the partner that is? You, the accomplice, so to speak, aren't breaking any vows or promises or hearts...so what's the big deal?
I'll tell you. The big deal is that as much as adultery destroys marriages and causes heartache to the spouse who was betrayed, the main reason you should never become romantically or sexually involved with a married person is because of the heartache and trouble it will cause you. There are some very real considerations you should keep in mind if you've ever been tempted to become involved with someone else's spouse, not because of how it will affect their marriage, but because of what it will mean to you.
Here are some examples:
It means denying yourself the ultimate pleasure
Aside from the obvious truth that having sex with someone else's spouse isn't an honourable thing to do, the main reason you should never do it is the same reason why you oughtn't pick up strangers in bars, have promiscuous and multiple partners, or become a porn star; if you do, you'll be robbing yourself of one of life's greatest pleasures: love making.
You can only make love, that is to say have really incredibly satisfying sex, when you are in mutual love with your partner, when your emotional connection to each other is tied to your values and when primacy and privacy are in tact. Sex under any other circumstances is not ultimately satisfying, as anyone who has led a sexually nomadic life will tell you. Even at it's best, in those heady first few days of the affair, it still isn't nearly as good as it could be if the two of you were honestly in love with each other and together because you saw each other as a potential lifetime companion.
But what about those who do see their partner as a potential life companion? What about those people who have affairs not for cheap sex but for more emotional considerations? Well...
Adulterous affairs are almost never "true love" or even love at all.
Some people who begin affairs with a married person tend to harbour the secret hope that this is The One, some special, fragile and clandestine relationship that was Meant to Be, but that tragically this great love was interrupted or forestalled by the inconvenience of the other spouse. "If only we could be together"...they sigh, in love with the melodrama of it all..."If only he/she would agree to the divorce, then we could be together forever...."
This is simply not realistic. Most people who begin affairs are either bored, unhappy (but not unhappy enough to get a divorce) or intrigued by how much they can get away with, they are not looking to leave their comfortable lives, their comfortable spouses, their kids, their houses, their standing in the community...they just want a roll in the hay. They view this new sexual tryst as a kind of game, something that excites them for the first time in a long time, something that perks up their boring routine and makes them feel young again...they are not so overcome with love for you that they have to risk it all to win your heart. To think that the married co worker of yours who tells you how exciting you are is willing to trade in everything he's worked for all these years to start all over again with you - and with alimony and child support and a potential court battle as well - is extremely unrealistic. If you choose to believe this and become involved with him anyway, don't be surprised when he ends it soon after it begins. Because...
Affairs are notoriously short.
If you ever needed proof that affairs are not about love, just observe the average length of the average affair. A couple of months, usually, maybe a year at the outside. And that's only because it's often quite hard to disentangle yourself quickly once you've begun, and it takes a few months to really end things. If you compare that to real love - which can and does last a lifetime if it's based on shared values, there can be no doubt that the only thing binding an adulterous couple together is the momentary thrill of sex (as unthrilling as momentary sex can be).
Affairs are usually just an outburst of pent up frustration or emotion, they are temporary, short-lived sexual releases that some people resort to without bothering to talk out their problems with their spouse. They are about excitement or relief, about easing boredom or reclaiming self-esteem - and once they've served their purpose, there's no longer any use for them, or for the partner in them. Adulterers rarely leave their spouses over an affair, unless the betrayed spouse forces them to. Most adulterers, if they had their way, wouldn't alter their lives or marriages in any way, except to add discrete affairs from time to time that no one ever knew about.
If you become sexually involved with a married person, don't be surprised if the "passion" fizzles quite quickly and your company is not as desirable as it once was. The husband or wife that "didn't understand" your lover soon becomes the only person they want to go home to at night - not you.
Also...
You will never be primary or private
The lack of primacy and privacy in an adulterous affair accounts for why it will never be as sexually or romantically satisfying as a committed monogamous marriage, but aside from that, never being private or primary with your lover has real applications in the real world. You can never be primary in that his or her spouse will always come before you, in everything - don't be surprised if secret dates are suddenly cancelled because "something came up at home", don't expect to ever be able to spend the holidays or important days with your lover. Don't expect to have the simple joy of waking up in love with the person next to you and knowing you can luxuriate in bed with each other all day if you want. Don't ever expect to feel special or valuable; you know that there is someone else that is deemed more special or more valuable to your lover than you are - especially when he or she goes to elaborate lengths not to "hurt" their spouse while hurting you every day.
And although affairs are by their nature secret and clandestine, they are never really "private" - for real privacy in a relationship there must be the feeling that it is just the two of you facing the world together, that you are a team, mutually exclusive and committed to each other. It doesn't matter if you always meet in out-of-the way places and carry on in secret, as long as there's a spouse and possibly children involved in this relationship of yours, it will never be truly private.
And, of course:
This person will, in all likelihood, do the same thing to you with someone else.
You have to know that even if you develop a "successful" relationship with a married person (whatever "success" means to someone having an affair), the very fact that they cheated on their husband or wife with you means they have the kind of character that would let them cheat on you with someone else.
Some people, who subscribe to the "But he really loves me!" theory believe that they are somehow different, that their lover only cheated because their spouse was a cad or a cow, but that things are different now because now they're really in love. These people like to think that their lover will mend their straying ways now that they've chanced upon such a peach, and will turn into faithful, devoted, blissfully happy lover from that point on. Some people honestly don't make the mental connection necessary to see that if he or she did it once, they'll be able to do it again.
And finally:
Relationships that grow out of affairs can leave you open to future blame.
Sometimes, it happens. A man in his forties or fifties, say, meets a vibrant young woman in her twenties who is attracted to him and entices him with a chance to recapture his youth and feel virile again. They begin an affair, which the man thinks he can pull off without his wife of twenty-five years ever knowing about. But soon after the affair begins, the young woman starts pressuring the man for a commitment - she insists, in short, that he leave his wife and marry her. The man is either smitten with her or feels guilty about having created this mess; or else the young woman forces the situation by confronting the man's wife. Either way, the man goes through a lengthy and costly divorce, upsets his family and the routine of his life, and begins a new, more "respectable" relationship with his lover.
But soon after, since the initial euphoria of an affair has worn off (see Affairs are Notoriously Short), the man discovers that his new wife is nothing like his old wife, the wife with whom he spent twenty five years, with whom he had children, with whom he weathered ups and downs, crises and good times, whom he came to regard not so much as a sexual object, perhaps, but as his most trusted friend and confidante. While the old wife may have been content to care for him and their home, or to raise children as her main career as many women of the previous generation did, the new wife is a career woman who wants prestige, advancement and financial success - she won't stoop to mere domesticity. As the man begins to miss the comfort of his first wife and the easy routine of the life he left behind, he sees less and less to excite him in the person of his new wife. He soon learns that sex isn't everything in life, and that what you do with the other ninety-five per cent of your time has a much greater bearing on your general happiness. Soon he begins to blame the new wife for having caused this mess, he accuses her of making him leave his wife and his old life behind, he sees her as the cause of all his misfortune and thinks to himself "If I had never met you, I would still be with so-and-so, and I'd be much happier." Whether this is true or not, or whether he is merely reflecting on his old life through the haze of nostalgia, the fact is he will come to resent his new wife for being what he regards as the cause of his divorce, the cause of his suffering, and every other bad thing.
If you give someone a way to blame you for their troubles, don't be surprised if they seize that opportunity and run with it. And there is no better scapegoat than "the other woman", who is often regarded as the "homewrecker" even though the philandering husband is the one who wrecked his own home.
Finally, it's worth noting that it is possible to be married to someone you thought was your soulmate only to meet someone you know is. People do fall out of love with their spouses and in love with someone else, but in my opinion, the only honourable thing to do in this case is to be completely honest. Don't cheat behind their back, don't try to stay married and have a lover on the side - if you really believe this new person is the one for you, then do the right thing and end your marriage before you become sexually involved with someone else. Do it because you know that your marriage is not making you happy, not because you've become infatuated with someone new. Do it because you'd do it even if there weren't anybody else.
And if you find yourself in love with a married person who wants to leave their spouse for you, don't let them. Don't become involved unless and until they end their marriage for their own sake, so that if the two of you do unite, there will never be any residual resentment or feelings of blame. Insist on starting any new relationship with a clean slate and a clear conscience - for your own sake.
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I know we aren't suppose to focus on OW/OM but for me it helped take illusion of their relationship away. It actually has helped me move forward and not put so much weight to their relationship. It reminds me that they don't have anything special so stop thinking about them together and move on. I had a very special relationship with my H because I was a whole and happy person and I plan on being that again to either move on with another person someday or to a new relationship with my H. Hope it brings a little peace to some of you also.
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I just wanted to point out that the URL for this article is:
http://www.andtheylivedhappilyeverafter.com/81.htm
Good find! I enjoyed that article and plan to check out the rest of that site.
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another really good site which is not about MLC but about healthy relationships with boundaries is www.baggagereclaim.com - I found it when I started on my journey back in October 2009 when I wanted to understand why women became OW.....I get a lot of useful relationship info from Baggae Reclaim and it helps me navigate the key relationships in my life (including my husband!!)
P
xx
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Excellent articles, oh how I wish I could send the Cheating one to the OW & H !!!!
Fox xx
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Bumping this thread up for Kappy, hope it helps with your boundaries.
Look up at the top of our forum under Resource standing actions and there are more links for boundaries.
(3rd post down in that thread)
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Thanks OP, I needed to be reminded too.
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I thought maybe since so many of us are dealing with a OM/OW here
I thought maybe it would be good to discuss how to get passed the feeling of betrayal?
How to let go of the Ow/Om is vital to your survival....
Not dwelling or comparing yourself to the other person....
Remember that your w/h "THINKS" they are in love with the predator....It is nothing more then 2 children
escaping the "reality" they are refusing to see.
The Ow/Om helps them "forget" by confusing and using blackmail to get your spouse to do what they want.
If I can help anyone here...I would love too...
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I sometimes wonder if it is "love" when they will give up everything for that person. How can they not be in love when they do so much for that person even at the expense of their kids?? I don't want it to be true, but wonder sometimes...
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You are certainly a good example to all of us, Synicca.
In my experience of H's EA, they might convince themselves that they are doing nothing wrong. They aren't consciously betraying us, but trying to escape an aspect of their lifes that feels oppressive. I truly believe that my H wasn't really thinking of me at all.
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it's hard when they walk away from everything and everyone for this R that seems to make them happy.
Think about it this way, If your head is mixed up and you don't know which way your going, and all you
can even think about doing is running...running away from "reality" and there is this person that is
willing to go right along with you? seriously, there has got to be something seriously wrong with someone
who is willing to be with someone who will leave their kids....
Both sides may or may not do the same thing..They run so fast that they Give up all that they knew to be real.
or maybe think about it this way......in the "real" world of R's, when 2 people get together. and they are SANE.
none of this behaviour takes place. Most people will leave the Marriage, file for divorce and never look back.
You see the True bliss that comes from "real" love.
I see from my H's r with Ow is that they have never got along..from day 3. its been 9 months now and
he has almost lost everything and everyone...and she is doing the same.
for what? to end up on the streets?? is that reality? no.
Mermaid: I think your right, in the beginning, they aren't thinking about whats right or wrong. There is nothing
to tell them " Hey stop this crap" the person they meet, doesn't care "truly" about our spouses. They want the
fantasy of "true love" that they have never really had in life.
My H admits that he is being "selfish" that he doesn't think about what he is doing.
He doesn't look ahead. Its ALL about today. not tomorrow.
How can they know what they are doing when they are running so fast and ignoring the path of distruction?
They literally sit on their hands waiting for something to "change" for someone else to "fix" it.
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I am not proud of the fact that my H has had 7 Pa's...It took me 4 years to get past
the last set of betrayals...so when MLC came about, I was fully aware and able to "let it go"
It takes alot of self work, forgiveness, and alot of praying...
It can be done though...I believe that everyone can get passed it.
The worst thing anyone can do is Compare yourself! THAT is a no no
That will distroy your self worth faster then anything else.
You have to stop the fantising about "what they do"
Visualizing " them in bed"
This is ALL bad moves and will kill your spirit. The first rule here is
SAVE YOUR SPIRIT!!
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I should preface this by saying that (so far) I have not really been subjected to OM. By that I mean my MLCer told me about a year ago that there was someone else, but she has never brought one in my presence, nor has she talked on the phone to one in my presence. That doesn't mean he is not still somewhere in the picture, or perhaps someone else is.....or 3 someone elses....who knows?
By the time she told me, I had already read enough on this site and of Jim Conway's materials to ignore it when I found out. I recognize it as a symptom of her MLC, and we do not live together and only see each other briefly once in a while.....so again, it has never been in my face, which I am thankful for.
There are several things the MLCer will regret. OM/OW is one of those things.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_understanding-infidelity_in-fatuation-versus-love.html
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I never got over OW.... only recently when my husband turned his attention to me and I felt more confident... but OW has infected our lives at his invitation. She has sat in my husband's car and now new truck... she has touched him everywhere...called and sexted him a million times... whined to him to keep him from his kids and he allowed it... she is guilty cuz she participated in the MOST selfish type of behavior. He is also guilty... but she is a WOMAN and one would think she wouldn't want anyone to do this to her.... she will get her due. I hope she is miserable and crying for at least the equivalent of the misery I felt. And in the end, she still won't have my husband... she'll be alone or in another dysfunctional relationship.
Once I (recently) realized that my husband was working out some "Mommy" issues with OW, I was able to embrace the process, but only because I KNOW he doesn't love her... he just feels sorry for her... that she is looking really bad in his eyes and that he will soon feel like a fool.... earlier on it was harder. BUT, the fact that she is only 29 and I am 51 is difficult for me... it just is.
In my opinion, OW has perpertrated a HUGE betrayal on me, a stranger... but a "sister".... a woman with children.... how dare she stoop so low. She is nothing but a hollow empty shell of a human being... one that doesn't deserve ANYTHING from me, but who I will find a way to forgive. She is too stupid to give credence to, BUT, it saddens me that my husband had feelings for this piece of crap, and that is all she is. Sometime in the future she may turn her life around and be a better human being, but she will never be more in my eyes than what she has shown me to be.... no better than a piece of dog sh* on the bottom of my shoe and I do NOT wish her the best. Hope she does better in the future, for her daughters sake and so that no one else will suffer because of her willingness to participate in the breakup of a family..
My husband will suffer his own consequences. It's as it should be... to have to face yourself.
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In the first months post BD I was furious with the OW. Felt intense anger, rage, shock that one woman could do this to another, demonized her, hated her, the usual reactions. H has been living with her for 5 months, now. I've never met her. (Fortunately, they're living 90 miles from where I live so I don't have to worry about running into her!) As time has gone on, however, I've come to have somewhat more moderate feelings about her. (I stress the "somewhat"!)
What's helped me the most to cope are the following:
I frequently remind myself that mentally healthy, spiritually fit people don't have affairs with married people. Therefore OW is mentally ill/unstable and, like my H, is going through an emotional breakdown/crisis/transformation. (H is 60, OW is 52.) This thought helps because when H first admitted the PA to me at BD (5 months ago) he spoke of OW as though she was some kind of saint. I swear, the tone that would come into his voice when he talked to me about her was something I'd never heard in his voice before! Saints don't have affairs with married people. And did I mention that she was also married when the A began two years ago? (She's now divorced.)
What's also helped is something my D21 said to me early after BD and has repeated several times since. "If it wasn't her it would have been someone else. She just happened to be in the "right" place at the "right" time." This is something I've read here, too. The OW is a woman who is willing and available. That's one of her main attractions to the MLCer. It could have been anyone. I think RCR writes about this in one of her articles.
My H's OW has issues. Lots of issues. Serious health problems. Two ex H's. Not able to work due to illness. Has moved from her home state and city 300 miles away to a tiny backwater town to live with H on his boat(!), leaving her grown children, her friends, her family and her whole life behind. What 52 year old woman does that? An unstable one who's desperate, that's who. Thinking about how unstable she is helps me cope. H is going to wake up to that one day.
Finally, it's helped me a lot to pray for the OW. I found a prayer in the book When He Leaves that I try to say everyday. I've been doing it for about three months and it's helped. It just gives me a calmness and peace, if only for a few minutes. I also say the same prayer for H. I don't always believe it but it makes sense to me that "forgiveness is our ticket out of here," out of the pain. Or at least one of the tickets.
Great topic!
TMHP
M 58
H 60
D 21
M 37 yrs.
BD Jan 11
H currently living with OW with whom he's been
having 2 year PA
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OW/OM. I remember after BD asking H to tell me OW's flaws. He couldn't name one. Not one. I said to him at that point, well this isn't love then, it is infatuation. You can't love someone till you know their flaws and you still love them anyway.
OW/OM have a very dysfunctional R with the MLCer from the start. Think about it. They start a relationship built on lies and secrecy, they use manipulation ("I don't want to sleep with you while you are still married" type things - trying to express how "moral" they really are, whilst simultaneously asking the MLCer to leave their spouse and engaging in the thing they say they are against ANYWAY!).
They validate everything that the MLCer says in the beginning, while you are slowly being demonised and your suspicious behaviour (because of the infidelity and the MLCers distinctly odd behaviour) means that you argue at more at home, justifying in the MLCer screwed up mind the infidelity.
Then, when the MLCer leaves to live with the OP there is an initial high caused by getting what they want and hormonal energy (although my H told me his new living situation was "hard work" only 3 weeks after moving in with her - though they are still together 7 months later).
Sooner or later the controlling behaviour begins. Because they know that one or both of them has already proven themselves untrustworthy in a relationship. At first this level of control may seem enticing - they see it as validation of love. But true love is based on trust, so controlling behaviours (such as stopping someone from contacting their children!) is not love. It is in fact "anti-love".
The OP is a symptom of the MLC illness, which is why the MLCer stays addicted to it however awful or manipulative the OP's behaviour may be. And it is why in some cases there are mulitple OPs - because when the first one breaks down, they still need that addictive high to continue avoiding their depression and themselves)
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I know it is classic MLC but it's still upsetting. My H has been communicating online with these women. He's on a free dating web site and I found emails back and forth between him and these women. What's even more upsetting is that when he spent a few nights at a hotel when we were arguing one night, he came back with the phone number of the front desk employee. Come to fond out, he has added her to his Facebook friends list. She is 19, has been arrested, and she is dating someone else. Here he is- a 38 year old man. I tell myself this had nothing to do with me and not to let it bother me. But how can it not? 11 years of loving him unconditionally and this is what I get??I tell myself it is part of the crisis but do they ever wake up and stop this nonsense?
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Oh and I have to say I have not "gotten over" the betrayal, but I just never acknowledge OW's existance anymore, I don't discuss her at home with the children, I never talk about her with H and even though she comes with him to exchange the kids, I blank her - I have never spoken to her - not even to be rude.
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When my ex-partner came back to me briefly for a week, he told me that his relationship with OW had been an infatuation. He said she had had a hard childhood (feckless mother, drunken father) and spent most of her time moaning about all the slights she had experienced through the years at other people's hands. (Funny, my ex had a tendency to be very preoccupied at slights he felt he had received from others too!). At that point he just couldn't see why he had been with her. A week later he was gone and two weeks later he was stating that they thought as one on everything, were together permanently this time and were going to get married. No normal people could have such a quick change round as that!
It does hurt a lot thinking of them together looking at houses etc but I know that it is all a fantasy. I just hope he doesn't bankrupt himself before he realises that - but sadly that's up to him.
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Because I had read the articles on this site
Because OW was the POLAR opposite of me and anything my H was attracted to in the past
Because she was a clear affair down
Because he shared some of her behaviors with me
I was able to see that there was blackmail from day one
She was a woman that needed to be saved
She paid him ALOT of attention
So I understood the dynamics early on and didn't get wrapped up in her
I only knew that H was very sick and this was where my energy and concern went
The OM/OW is nothing...believe me
don't spend time imagining bliss between them
It is not so...I can tell you that for sure
It is an emotional high like a druggie shooting up ...MY H EVEN TOLD ME THIS
This is NOT love...it is a FEELING
The opposite side of what they feel is love is hate. It is not a R
Now this doesn't mean we all need to vent every once in awhile or that I observe the Relationship in order to understand what I can expect at certain time.
They are a symptom and when they are gone a whole new mountain lies ahead of the MLCer
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I too, was very jealous etc. when I first heard of OW. Now I think she is pathetic and actually feel sorry for her. She is damaged goods.
Her husband left her for a much younger woman and I believe she is hurting a lot from that, trying to build up her own self-esteem and worth, but she too, is spinning in the wind. It is not real, it's all phony manuipulation and ego building.
She is constantly drunk, and can't hold her licquor. She flirts with any and every man, including all my H's friends and all my kid's boyfriends. She sits on mens laps, pinches them, and calls them sickening names like:darling, sweetie etc. etc.
Our friends do not like her. She does not talk or relate to the women in any fashion-just flirts with the men. The wives don't like her, and the h's think she is trash. Every time she leaves the room they joke about her and laugh behind her back. She is an embarressment to my H, but he doesn't see it(I don't think) but eventually I believe he will. My kids are also embaressed about her. She has told my kids " that all men cheat, so they had better get used to it now."
She is pushy and manipulative, pouts like a baby when she doesn't get her way. I hear that H and her fight a lot. H and I rarely fought, and he hates fighting, so we'll see how long that lasts.
To me, she is nothing. She's false, manipulative, immature, histrionic, and acting very irresponsibly. She does not feel like competition at his point in time. I actually find myself, glad that he has chosen her for now, because I know she is not competition. I beleive this relationship will fail in time, and is false, so why worry about it.
This relationship really points out how badly my H must be feeling, how very low his self-esteem must be, and how much he is troubled and hurting inside. I think the same for her. Perhaps they will find solace in each others arms, but I don't anything more. I actually feel sorry for the both of them. Glad I'm not there. My family provided a good foundation, healthy self-esteem and a groundedness for me that lives inside myself always and that has seen me through many crisises in life, including this big one. It is the greatest gift you can give your children, and I feel sorry that he didn't get that from his family.
I'm almost 1 yr. post- BD and feel that I've dealt with the hardest part of all this already. I'm on my feet, feeling strong, independent, calm, and happy most of the time. Their relationship hardly affects me now. I just have compassion and hope that one day they will get to the place where I am, already-at peace with myself.
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My H's OW is manipulative, clever & good at getting what she wants. I've never heard a more dramatic story than hers!!! Ran away from her family as they tried to arrange a marriage for her! Family cut her off; had 2 children by 1st husband who cheated on her ( clearly she thought that was ok so did it to me); divorced him. Married a man who apparently abused her; had ovarian cancer; the list goes on!! Who knows what's true & what's not; but he fell for her story completely & the pull is very strong, even when he came back to me she was still controlling his feelings, I didn't stand a chance :-(. She offers him a total escape from his old life & he can pretend to be whomever he likes both with her & her friends who he now calls his. I'm lying on my bed reading the forum as it's weekend again & I feel very alone, wondering what they're doing. No doubt shopping for clothes for the 'family holiday' OW is paying for in 2 weeks time. Breaks my heart to think of him belonging to another woman & her teenage kids when I have been rejected along with his own son. H will certainly feel it next weekend when it's Father's Day & he gets nothing from his own Son. But I'm sure she will do something to make him forget WHY be isn't getting a card!!!!! Because he has deserted his REAL family for these pretenders. I do hate her, yes! As I feel if she hDnt been so willing to take my H back after he'd finished with her, been with me for 2 weeks & then decided I wasn't worth the effort!!! If he'd not had her as an option, he wd have had no where else to run... maybe he wd have stayed & tried to work things out - or am I just kidding myself. OW has helped my H run away & reinvent himself & being needy herself they are 2 cheating, desperate people. I just feel she'll never let go :-(((.
Love & hugs
Fox. Xxxx
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So I need an emergency piece of advice. We are almost 1.5 years post BD, divorce final this month, we live in a small town, and H's girlfriend (fiancee) lives far away, but is flying in for a visit this week. I have the kids. H wanted permission to take them to an event on Tuesday, I asked them, they didn't want to go, then he came back with dinner, plus S14 has an event Sunday that he wants to take OW to, so he wants to pick up son and take him. At first I said okay, but as I started to really think about it, I realized I am not okay with it and it is my time. If he had brought her in on his time, he could do what he wanted and I couldn't and wouldn't say no, but it is my time, so I said no. He thinks I am being petty and went all monster on me.
Am I being unreasonable? Really, tell me the truth--at what point do I have to sit back and realize that she is my replacement and I have to accept that for my kids to be healthy they will need to have a good relationship with her? Our parenting plan allows them to have the kids all holidays, summer and one weekend a month, though I am still not sure how that will be managed since we do live half a country apart... Dealing with OW is so hard when it comes to my kids, one of whom is really struggling with this...
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Lisa,
I would say that if it IS your scheduled time with your kids then you have every right to say no.
I told my H IF Ow moves back here, I will be the one to monitor my D's visits because I do not trust Ow
as a Mother, She has been reckless with her own kids and her immoral guidance rador is OFF just like
his.
Stay strong for your kids, you H cant do it right now...atleast mine can't.
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I don't know that there is a good answer regarding your question....I just don't know. I do know that this other woman will not be able to be your "replacement".
Your husband has this marriage planned before your divorce is final. There's a laundry list as to why that's not a good idea. Your husband is heading down a dead end street.
Here's a piece from one of the Standing articles:
But second marriages have a higher failure rate than first marriages and when there are children involved the failure is even higher.
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Great topic. I got past the betrayal(or am dealing w/ said betrayal) by using the articles here.
H followed every single cookie cutter behavior mentioned in all the articles.
Hindsight again..hiding in basement for 2 years playing with guitars and failing miserably as a stay at home Dad. :'(
BD 2-14-11 Ran away down the street yellling "we can be friends" Gone completely six weeks. Affair down in FULL SWING. Her resume (discovered from my snoop festival) :46yo with 3 kids ,1 grandkid and 1 son who lives w/ his Dad.
Craphole hot cramped dirty apt in seedy part of town. Ugly face book picture Pew yuck :P
My H said when he thought we were hopeless he ran to put some of his guitars and amps at her house thinking she was married. When he said"I hope your H doesn't mind all this clutter temporarily.." She said "I'm not married" and WHAMO They are in LOVE> "A REAL friend" Ok forget my BS degree in pharmacy and the MDs I work with and psychiatrists I work with. They know NOTHING.
I now know from being here on this forum(THANKS) that he is just up to Chapter 4 in this playbook. Time to wonder why mommy looks so nice. H asks the Ds every time. Smiley blinky love eyes.
Like HB says "They are miserable and hiding it from everyone except LBS who knows them better than anyone" Until they look WITHIN THEMSELVES for the cause they won't see it.
Shallow superficial on the surface playing house together. And the sex is no fun anymore. Their heads are too screwed up. That's all...
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I definitely have trouble getting past OW. She has recently become more assertive in H's life and called our home the other day for the first time (that I'm aware of). I blew up at H as this is my home, my sanctuary. I am always amazed at how uncaring, selfish and hurtful they are. This woman knows how much I am hurting and she calls his cell phone twenty times a day. Now if he doesn't answer she just keeps trying. H says he put a stop to it. It is now 9 months of their relationship, they are on their second breakup. She is starting to show her true colors but H still loves the drama.
She is not that attractive, 48 yrs old, a nurse, never been married (wonder why?). H used to say that nothing is wrong with her that she could have plenty of guys. yea right that's why she picked a married, 64 man in a midlife crisis...yea what a catch. H is so delusional. I don't want to hate her or anyone on this earth. It gives them too much power. If I didn't have to see her and see all the phone calls it would be much easier. The situation is causing me to think about kicking my H out for my own emotional health.
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I don't know what the 'right answer' is, but IMHO, I would let go. Let the chips fall where they may. All you're doing is creating unhealthy emotions for yourself. He has a right to see his kids, and OW is going to be a part of that for a while. Not sure how old your kids are but in the end, it is now their relationship with their Dad and OW and they are going to have to deal with it themselves. If they don't like it , or don't want to go, they will let it be known in some fashion eventually. But I wouldn't make the kids feel torn or like they are betraying you. Rise above it. If it is 'your time' well then, he needs to respect that, but a little flexibility, couldn't hurt the relationship all around, as you may need some flexibility some time too.
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I soooo understand Wondering..
I too see the "addiction" the constant calls and texts...non stop. 24/7 almost.
When you get to see first hand when your H's are living with you and still very much with Ow,
you can see the addiction. the manipulation. the controling on BOTH sides.
There is NO trust on eaither side, How could there be.
on another note: I learned within the first week after BD, DO NOT BAD MOUTH ow/om to your spouse!
this is a BIG NO NO!!
since they are in this "save" her mode...protecting the "love" of their life..."whatever!"
It causes your spouse to dig his teeth in deeper with the Ow.
They will run to them faster if your in their face about "The scank"
I made the mistake of calling Ow a "Stupid worthless, C" lastnight to my H. ( I can get upset too) LOL!
and he took off, got on the phone and was talking to her until God knows when..
Be very careful about that!! You dont want to give them a reason to RUN to them at all!!!
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Wondering, My H used to call me twenty times a day. Even stuff like "Where's the lettuce?"
It gets SOOOO ANNOYING!
I think MLCers get smothered w/ stupid phone calls and texts all day. That's why we are in charge of Dignity and Grace and OWs are in charge of needy and clinging and desperate and unstable. 8) :o
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Of course it is upsetting, Faith. It's still a betrayal of your trust in him and of your R.
In a way you are right, it has nothing to do with you, but everything to do with him, and his probable confused state of mind. He may not even connect you and these fantasies in his head.
Nevertheless, you can't control him. You can tell him how you feel, you can withdraw, protect yourself, detach from this madness as much as possible, and look after yourself.
Take care, M
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I know it is classic MLC but it's still upsetting. My H has been communicating online with these women. He's on a free dating web site and I found emails back and forth between him and these women. What's even more upsetting is that when he spent a few nights at a hotel when we were arguing one night, he came back with the phone number of the front desk employee. Come to fond out, he has added her to his Facebook friends list. She is 19, has been arrested, and she is dating someone else. Here he is- a 38 year old man. I tell myself this had nothing to do with me and not to let it bother me. But how can it not? 11 years of loving him unconditionally and this is what I get??I tell myself it is part of the crisis but do they ever wake up and stop this nonsense?
Whether they wake up or not; depends on them; just like the navigation of the crisis depends upon them.
These women are NOT your problem; they are actually HIS problem; and taking what he does in the way of self destructing, personally into yourself, is not going to do anything but drive you into a nervous breakdown....and over something that has NOTHING to do with you, at all.
This type attitude is a learned one; it doesn't come natural; after all, you promise exclusivity when you marry; and the MLC'er breaks that exclusivity. And that is upsetting intself.
There is a multi fold purpose for the EAs and PAs; and that is unique to each individual....right or wrong, they are on a search, a quest to find themselves...there is an unsettled, unsatisfied feeling within them; that they are trying to "fix" by fantasizing about other woman; or actually getting tangled up with other woman; all at the expense of themselves; because, honestly, THEY stand to lose everything; NOT the LBS.
If the LBS walks away, files for a divorce; the MLC'er will have lost it all; and they won't realize that UNTIL they awaken to what they are done/have done.
There are consequences for each action one perpetrates; good or bad; it all comes back; and one does reap what they sow for a season; and it's a hard reaping, as the wages of sin are death; and this is NOT ONLY a physical death; but relational death, emotional death, a way of life death; death is NOT contained just to this physical world; there are spiritual deaths that are suffered, as well.
High price to pay for a short season of sin, that's for sure.
While I never advise people to turn a blind eye to affairs, as this is, but one, of the realities they see concerning their MLC spouse; I do advise them to learn to detach, and distance from the actions of the MLC spouse; there is nothing you can do to open his eyes, or even "help" him; or even make him see the light; so you must let him go to his own devices, commending him to the hands of the Lord to deal with....don't hold on, let go, so He can do His best work.
I don't condone the MLC affair(s); but I understand why and how they can happen...and how they can further get out of control to the point the MLC'er is entangled in a huge web of their own making...but remember, this is THEM...and the fault lies upon THEM, as they do these things to themselves.
Take care.
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There is loads of wisdom on this thread. It is nice to have it all in one place.
I believe this is the most important thing to keep in the forefront of our heads...Even if you sometimes feel unsure of the A, or especially when you feel unsure about the A:
I think MLCers get smothered w/ stupid phone calls and texts all day. That's why we are in charge of Dignity and Grace and OWs are in charge of needy and clinging and desperate and unstable. 8) :o
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I am going to try my best here to explain how I deal with the Ow sitch.
It really is all about your spirit and forgiveness.
I envision this...Your spirit is made up of a white light...we are created from God and this is the part that is
of God.
If your standing outside looking at your spirit. in translucent and glowing.
Everytime your hurt by something or someone, its like a stone is thrown "through" your spirit.
With every stone thrown at you, your spirit becomes full of holes...like "swiss cheese"
If you do not allow yourself to find forgiveness that hole remains there. and before you know it,
your spirit is left dark and unable to glow..Your spiritual self becomes damaged.
so everytime I have ever been hurt by "betrayal" or anything that puts a hole in my spirit. I
search inside of myself, ways to forgive the act. We are not here on this earth to judge other people.
That is God's job. We must remain as holy as we can be. This is what God wants for us.
If we start to hold onto the sadness of hurt then our spirits get further and further away from God.
The darkness takes over and we are left weak and unable to stand on our own.
This takes courage, because in order to find forgiveness, you must look inside yourself to
reach for it. It does not come from outside forces. It comes from within.
The act that is put against us, is there to teach us something. Its there to show us we need to see and look inside.
we can ignore what needs to be done, but in the end it only hurts us.
The person or persons that have done this act of disservice, WILL be judged by God.
I believe in Karma, 100%. I believe that when our spirits reach heaven, we are shown what we
have done, with everything that we have said to someone or done to someone.
its shown to us, we get to "feel" what they felt, we get to see that domino effect it caused..
This is ( I believe) our punishment.
Therefor, for me....I try to love unconditionally, treat people with dignity and respect. But I also
believe that that is also earned not handed to you.. I will respect and honor you, if you do the
same to me, If not..I walk away and never look back.
I know this may sound jumbled...I can see the words I want to write, but sometimes it doesn't
come out so well...Hope it makes sense!!
Hugs
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I get it totally. I feel like you do. Kinda like.. what would Jesus do? all the time. :)
I bet a lot of us are like that here. I also bet the MLCers know this.
Probably works against us in that they kind of know underneath all that MLC Fog Tunnel Storm of Confusion that we are very forgiving.
Since they are stray dogs we are letting run around the neighborhood they figure "I'll go back whenever make that if ever. ::)..LBS is cool and chllin' over there." :o :o :o
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I have been reading this site with great interest. I know that the ow is supposed to be just a symptom of mlc, even if our partner claims to be really in love for the first time in their life!
I know how devastating it is to have someone you love tell you they don't love you but they do love someone else.
I agree it is hard to fathom how the om or ow can do this, breaking up a marriage and family. Do they ever feel guilt?
Or, in my case my partner and I were not married, though together for 15 years. In this case do you think the ow even cares that there was a commitment between me and my partner? Supposedly my partner passed on my message to her that I believed he was in depression and hoped she would step aside and give us time to work through this. This was right after bomb drop. Supposedly she told him he didn't seem depressed to her. And she has never backed off. Do you think it is because she doesn't see herself as a "home wrecker" since there was no marriage certificate?
I don't know why men and women don't honor each other by backing off relationships with another person's husband, wife or partner.
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I guess it's b/c the needy desperate lonely unhappy OW/OM doesn't care. They are so emotionally and spiritually stunted that they can't SEE IT. :o They just WANT what they WANT when they WANT it. Makes them feel superior. Makes them feel that they have control of something/someone. We can not relate but they like the thrill and drama of all this insanity. Dysfunction junction is their MO. I guess...... ???
Their true colors will show in a matter of time and our Hs/Ws will see them for what they are. :o :o :o :oGod willing..
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broken,
in my case, I told the Ow that she needed to back off as well, that he was in a depression/crisis and that
it would end up distroying her family too..
My H told me that she cried the first time they "had sex" that she felt really bad. But refused to back off because
"she loved him" That to me shows NO remorse, NO morals. You cannot! I repeat.....CAN NOT have true guilt if you
CONTINUE to come in between a family AND ones with children involved.
It doesnt matter if your married or not, She knew your Partner was in a R with someone...that should be enough
to walk away.
just my .02
and I AGREE Mamma...exactly!!
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A healthy person does not knowingly get involved with an attached man/woman. (Married or Committed).
The OW woman cried when they had sex because she was emotionally blackmailing him. And, it worked famously. What a crock of sh*t!
The OP is usually so needy that she has no room to think of anyone else but what she/he wants.
Your MLCer is in crisis. He is a confused mess. Unable to commit. Unable to decide on anything. Living moment to moment. What healthy person wants a relationship with that?
They OP is nothing but a band aid. It doesn't fix anything.
Limitless
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I believe that 'falling in love' with someone is a choice. You know when it is starting, when you're crossing lines, when you're in the deep, but all along it is a choice, which you can stop anytime. Yeah, it's not always easy but you can 'shut it down' any time and walk away. The OP and our WS's are very selfish. They choose to cross that line for whatever reason.
I was contacted a few yrs back by an old boyfriend from high school. I'd only gone out with him max. 4 or 5 dates. I barely remembered who he was. He kept contacting me and contacting me til I finally communicated with him by email. I think he was definitely in MLC. After a little while of very innocent communication about what we'd done with our lives, our families etc, he started telling me he had always been in love with me. I thought-WTF- it's thirty yrs later, I hardly know you, and never really did, and I'm not 16 anymore nor or you. I shut him down right away. It was inappropriate and frankly weird. This just goes to show the bizarre thinking of someone in MLC, but also that it's a choice whether you're going to let that happen or not.
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Talking about crying and sex my H sent me a letter a month after BD when he was still GONE. It made no sense. Said I was GREAT. Too good for him. It said they" got hit by a Tsunami and cried buckets and oceans over it." :'( :'(
Cried over what???? Cheating? Why tell me this? My H never cheated while we were together . He told me "I'm running away to cheat now" I get mad when I think of her Crying oceans over my marriage being destroyed. Oh well Water off a duck's back. 8)
If they think they were crying then...just wait...I have a feeling they will be.
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Rememberer
I have linked the article below that describes in-fatuation and in-love. The MLCer does not have the ability to have a love based relationship in their emotional state that is MLC.....with the OM/OW or the spouse/ex spouse for that matter.
When you were contacted by the old boyfriend, you were not in MLC and thus able to make a rational decision.
Soon after bomb drop, my counselor told me something that I believe really helped me start coming to grips with MLC. He was the first one to tell me not to engage my MLCer. He told me I would not be able to use logic in an emotional arguement.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_understanding-infidelity_in-fatuation-versus-love.html
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I guess it's b/c the needy desperate lonely unhappy OW/OM doesn't care.
Once, a long time ago when I still asked questions, LOL!!..I asked my husband if OW every considered what she was doing to his kids and me and he replied... with HEAD DOWN AND SHAME...."No, she doesn't give a damn about you."
At the same time, my husband was completely ENAMORED with the IDEA that she was "so in love with him" that she couldn't stop herself from SINNING (not his words, but... you get the gist).... that translates into 'You are SOOOOO amazing and WORTH sacrificing EVERYTHING FOR..... even my own daughter...." that is something he should have FELT from his parents when he was little, but he didn't. It is COMPLETE and UTTER BULLSHI* and TOTAL EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL and.....the same as HEROIN in his brain....
OW is an ugly pig.... capable of inflicting EXTREME pain onto him.... but he goes back to her again and again..... to try and MAKE the childhood issue "fit" and "work" AND because he feels that is what he deserves.
Not sure how we even have a chance, to tell you the truth.... :-\
I'll tell this story again on myself, which illustrates what a HEALTHY person would do... now, mind you, way back in the 1970's when I was just 17, my parents were divorced and I was suffereing the emotional consequences, so I was NOT a healthy example..... and YET.....
I met a super hot bartender that an acquaintance knew... went to a party at his house.... he had expressed interest in me a few times before when I was at his bar (underage.... everybody got it in those days....) ok, and because of my parent's divorce, I'm sure I was acting out and acting "easy", if you know what I mean... throwing off the "daddy issues" vibes and all..
Ok, so anyway, I go to the party at his house, we end up in the bedroom and he has performance issues.... :o don't think it was ME... pretty sure it was GUILT over his separated WIFE, OR just for using me for sex, whatever. When I found out... THAT NIGHT, that he was "separated" my crush on him was OVER... and I mean OVER!!!! I didn't dislike him, and he was still hot, BUT, HELLO!!! Even I understood that MARRIED is MARRIED until you are divorced for some time... I never gave him another thought after that night.... I just KNEW that men don't leave their wives that way....
So, the point of my story is that OW are NOT NORMAL!! They are Wierdos, too.... that will twist whatever the MLCer says to fit their own scenario. They are NOT "nice" people who just got "caught up" in something.... they are LACKING an empathy component....
Don't underestimate OW... your husband is caught up in her spell, and everything she says sounds like a revelation.... you can't fight that with anything other than NOT GOING AWAY QUIETLY!!!
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LG I am not going..that's for sure but I have duct tape over my mouth. So I go along quietly but harboring deadly Truth Darts. 8) 8)
Lately I am amazed that they can not call their kids for 8 days or even ask about them. ???
A further sign that this is not about a marriage breaking up. It's about running to feel no pain. No responsibilities. No brain. :o :o :o :o
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Mamma, it doesn't make it RIGHT, but just so you know... in MLC time, 8 days is more like 8 hours when it comes to time with their kids.... as despicable as it is, they truly feel they have spent more time and energy with the kids than they actually have.... I started keeping a calendar of visits... TIMEWISE... cuz if he stayed in a hotel, then it was really only adding up to about 10 hours per month as he had to get back up to OW's for one night before he had to go to work for the week... yeah, sick and disgusting!
In his brain, he believes he has been HERE for them... not sure a court would agree.... just sayin' ;)
What would it hurt for you to keep a journal? You never know if you might need it.... I don't show it to my MLCer cuz he doesn't beliee in it's accuracy anyway, LOL!!
OW will become demanding of his time, and he will be low energy as well.... depressed and just "going along with some things".... and your kids will get the short end of the stick..... first comes OW needs, then kids needs, then yours, then his, with OW sucking up most of the oxygen from the get go....
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Not so sure LG..He's kind of aloof. OW let's H sleep there and call it home but I am sure he's all over hiding out.sleeping in his car during the day at thruway rest areas.
I don't think they spend a lot of time together. He's been pensive lately. I still just love when he tells the Ds how good I look. Then staring into space. I'm doing well. I don't imagine any great infatuation over there. H's eyes are the windows to his soul? Correct? He is confused maybe for sho' but he's telling me something with those eyes. Kids get 8 hours with him a week and he sleeps on the couch over there or playground. or 10 days go by and nothing. Sorry hijack. OWs are terrible excuses for a bandaid. ew. I know he won't be home for 20 years like RipVan Winkle
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Listen to the gem of OW my H has taken on.
Recently one of my friends from the cottage was telling me how things were going with H, Ow and all our friends up there.
She said, they are trying to like her for his sake, because they truly love my H( he is a great person normally), but they cannot relate to her at all. The woman have tried to engage her, get to know her etc. but she is not interested, never speaks to the woman or shows any effort to have a relationship. She talks only to the men. She openly flirts with all their husbands. The men are frightened of sitting next to her at dinner, because she touches their legs, pinches them, calls them inappropriate names like 'darling', 'sweetie' etc. etc. She gets drunk all the time, and then pulls men up from the table to dance with her and is all over them. They are terrified of her. Then when they refuse to dance with her, she sits and pouts like a baby.
The women are disgusted with her open flirting with their husbands( and she is not even attractive) and the men are frightened of being in the same room with her. Whenever my H and OW leave the room, apparently all the friends joke and snicker about it, think she's a real embaressment and just don't get it. They say she is nothing like me, is not very smart and that I am classy and very much a lady.
She sounds so narcissistic to me and a real mess. Ironically, her H left her for a much younger woman. They have been divorced about 3yrs-about the same amount of time, my marriage started going bad-coincidence? She is clingy and very needy, pushy and manipulative. I'm finding it all very amusing right now.
It will be interesting to see how this drama plays out, but just goes to show how emotionally 'unstable' this woman is, and sadly my H, as well. They are like two alcoholics drowning their sorrows.
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Yes R,
Sounds familiar.....my H's OW is divorced once, separated from an apparently "abusive" husband - whether she's getting a divorce who knows...she is clingy, desperate and determined to hang on to my obviously unwell H....so again two desperate people who have built a relationship on betrayal and lies....he then dumps her for 2 weeks comes back to me and realises he can't take the questions and probably the feelings of guilt and shame I make him feel, so he went straight back to her and SHE TOOK HIM BACK no questions asked apparently???? I can't get my head around such a woman.... I have 28 years of history with this man, so naturally I was willing to take him back, she has only 6 months and H was ready to leave her for me again..... Unfathomable..... The same things that irritated him 2 months ago, will resurface again I'm sure, only this time where will he go???? H has made it clear our marriage is over...
Fox xxxx
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I have read many articales on women who get involved with married men..
It isn't pretty..I truly believe that my H's Ow is in it for the money...my H owns a house ( MY HOUSE )
we have a boat, jet ski, Harley, dirt bikes, nice Tahoe, nice things IN the home...
My H makes about 90 thousand a yr....( well, he did before Ow ) LOL!!!
Just bought a 2007 Cadilac ( UGH)
I think ( almost pretty sure ) my H talked about ALL the wonderful things they could do together.
How we are 2 hours away from anything you want to do in Cali. ( Central Cali )
She hates it when my H gives me child support :o :o :o Doesn't like when H has to do
anything for me, that requires money OR time..
She lives in Upstate NY, in a Low income apartment, welfare, child support....cant afford her own car.
YOU KNOW she wants to be taken care of...MY LIFE!! ugh
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Oh and I forgot to say...2 children from 2 different men, abusive R with provious H...
divorced now..
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My H dumped OW for a month after BD. When he finally left he went back to her straight away, she was "angry" for a day and took him right back. She is a golddigger too.
Again we had 16 years history and kids, which is why I was willing to take him back. She went out with him for 3 months was dumped for a month and took him back - no questions asked. Dumped her boyfriend and moved in with H straight away - had been waiting for H to leave me so they could get an apartment together before she left her "awful" boyfriend. Just wanted someone "better" i.e wealthier lined up before she made her move. There are many words for women like her, but I will refrain ;)
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S&D
My h left Ow 5 times while she was here in Cali...4 of thoughs times We slept together...2 of which Ow knows
about...She took him back every time! Told me that " he only ran to me because i was a safe place to fall"
Really? I wonder why?? could it be because HE IS SCARED OF YOU??? LOL!!!
They are willing to degrade themselves in order to get what they want...I have no sympathy for her.
I can forgive my H forgiveness because he is wacko for it...but her? Nope. I personally think she is also going through
some crisis of her own...but maybe she is just like that....who knows! and who cares!
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Yes it all sounds familiar doesn't it..... the emails from OW over Easter to my H when he finished with her by email!!! were wierd....the content was almost like SHE was the wife and I was the interloper???? They both mention this word "happy" so very much - like it is constant state of being.... life isn't constantly "happy" - but my H thinks now he should be in a permanently "happy" state....almost like he has "earned" it ... what about my happiness and our Son's...? I make him "unhappy" just by being "me" it is so sad and makes me feel so bad about myself that a twice divorced, cheating woman can make my H change virtually overnight into a selfish, compusive liar. Oh BTW - OW certainly can't be with my H for money as he doesn't have any!!!!! i think she was drawn originally to his work title, car and his "image", but she must have found out pretty soon that - that's exactly what it was "image" he has debt - I have debt, his car is leased and he will spend the rest of his life supporting me! So no money there then! :-\ At the moment OW is putting a roof over his head and paying for everything including a bl**dy holiday to Spain for this new "pretend family" next week.... is she desperate or is she desperate????
Fox xxxxx
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My OW was my best friend, lives 2 blocks from my home, children in the same class at school etc. I eventually moved schools and just avoid malls in the area. They show absolutely no remorse for their actions and cannot even see the pain they cause their children.
What gets me through is what a "blessed" r they have:
A r with a foundation of lies, deception & sin
Children on his side who hate her and on her side who hate him
Financial issues because h has to give me his full salary to support his 4 children
Family & friends who pretend to accept them but have nothing good to say behind their backs and have no respect for them
Children who do not respect them
The list goes on and on
How long can you be happy and "in love" with this type r?
Keep strong
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I think it is safe to say that...the R's are all the same in some fasion.
I cannot even imagine these types of R's lasting...it's twisted, and like you say....Based on lies.
The very foundation that needs to Hold an R together is distroyed by deciet. WE LBS"s KNOW
that their bound to crumble...Nothing real about it. If we can hold on long enough...I think
we come out the winners here....( cross my fingers )
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Synicca I think our Hs are with the same OW. Upstate NY and a total mess. No car No cable No insurance No 7 yo son (he's with his Dad).. How ironic this is. These crazy downward spirals from once outstanding men with great moral compasses. ???
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Mamma?
Is your H's Ow from Wilcott?? LOL
I guess thats a very small town. backwoods kinda place I hear..one street town.
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No we have civilization here and crack ows 8) Plus I can be in Manhattan in 90 minutes 8)
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LOL!!!!
Thats funny Mamma!!! I am sure there is Crack ows in Wilcott too?? hehehe I know my H met
Ow in a bar...WOW! what a shocker!! 8) 8) 8)
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My partner's OW is two years older than him, has four children from two marriages (going through divorce from her current husband) and has three grandchildren.
They are trying to relive the carefree days of their time at art school together thirty years ago. If it was all so marvellous then, why didn't they stay together? Strangely, neither of them can apparently remember why they broke up then.
I think she is probably going through some sort of MLC as well and isn't a golddigger as my partner earns a lot less than her husband. She has no income of her own so he (my partner) is paying for everything. When he came back for a week, he did tell me that she was very good at spending money and I suspect her lack of income will make it even more difficult for him to leave her as he will be worried that she will be left with nothing. My heart bleeds....
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Hi Chrysallis,
My heart bleeds for her too ::) I would certainly LIKE my H's OW's heart to bleed..... Miaow.... lol Speak Wednesday
Fox xxx
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What would it hurt for you to keep a journal? You never know if you might need it.... I don't show it to my MLCer cuz he doesn't beliee in it's accuracy anyway, LOL!!
OW will become demanding of his time, and he will be low energy as well.... depressed and just "going along with some things".... and your kids will get the short end of the stick..... first comes OW needs, then kids needs, then yours, then his, with OW sucking up most of the oxygen from the get go....
I couldn't agree more! I keep a journal of H's time with kids and it's VERY revealing. Don't show it to MLCer but given that H couldn't stand to be away from his kids and me even for a day pre-MLC shows how screwed up they really are. With me he was "free" to say and do what he wanted. :o :o With OW he's "trapped and in a prison" without any "freedom" as she keeps him on a very short leash. >:( >:( The leash is slowing turning into a noose around both their heads. In time OW/H will hang themselves...just saying. :o :o
TS
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TS,,
I know what you mean about the noose...H was able to come and go with Me, now he can't breathe
without permission from Ow...lol
It's a wonder they dont see the truth just from that. No freedom? Thats gotta be hard to deal with.
but then again, our H's are children right now and walk on eggshells to "comfort" the Ow.
sickening to say the least.
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I have no sympathy for her.
I can forgive my H forgiveness because he is wacko for it...but her? Nope. I personally think she is also going through
some crisis of her own...but maybe she is just like that....who knows! and who cares!
OW/OM are the scum of the earth and like scum will get flushed out in the end. Do not worry about OW/OM. They are damaged in the worst way humanly possible which is why they are so "easy" to pick up. My H's OW is trailer park trash, who sucks the life out of everyone and everything she gets a hold of. She's a 37yr who is on public assistance, doesn't work, spends like there's no tomorrow and is also a gold digger, needy person. Recently filed for BK for what? She doesn't work but she does spend which will bleed H & MIL dry. H has even bragged to my S she likes "sleeping with cops". :o :o Now that's something to be proud of!! :o :o Yuck!!! She parties, is loose in every way possible and has 2 kids - one of which can't stand her and the other brags about wanting to be a mother! The girl is only 12 yrs old! The other dropped out of HS and lives with her BF! Their F was an abusive alcoholic who died as a result of a DWI. Affair down is an UNDERSTATEMENT! H has attracted what he himself feels about himself. :-[
Do NOT get sucked into their negative energy. Let it be through their own doing and put focus back on yourself. Protect your finances, your children and yourself first and foremost! Pray for your H/W's recovery but please do not put focus on OW/OM - you give them way too much credit!!!
Much love to you all!
TS
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These posts could also be my XH! Left me for trailer trash, 3 kids all by different fathers, drug history, public assitance, etc. etc. I knew when my XH left he was with her as a "rescuer". I feel the type of men who experience MLC are so insecure and have such low self-esteem they need to feel superior to someone, a hero. They are tired of feeling the need to step up and try to keep up with us independent women who grow and become more independent the older we get. Maybe they don't feel admired and loved no matter how we treated them?? The same traits they "love" about these women, the dependency, the neediness and attention that goes along with that that was so appealing in the beginning will be their downfall eventually..just a matter of time. I know the OW is also a goldigger and has absolutely nothing of her own. My XH owes me thousands of dollars in back child support, but promised to pay when he sold some property, but I'm not holding my breath! I'm sure OW will not be going anywhere until she burns through any extra money he has. Right now he is down on his luck for sure, but still putting roof over her and her kids heads, buying her children (and her I'm sure) clothes, carting them around everywhere, etc. I'm getting better at letting that anger go, but am not 100% there yet. I know that even if I have to work 60 hrs. a week I can support my kids without him or outside assistance and feel proud of that. There is a certain amount of accomplishment knowing you can bear the weight of all that responsibilty on your own. Just because they are losers without any integrity doesn't mean I have to be. I try to think "If you can't beat 'em you can at least outclass 'em" :) Evidently not a hard task for some of us!!! I feel like just because he doesn't love me doesn't mean he can't respect me. XOXO PW1
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I just read through this again....
reading it really helps to understand that the OP is really a messed up person.
no doubt that it wont last with our spouses!
AND its amazing how simular their R's are. The things that are said and done, a huge eye opener!
and the ADDICTION!!! It's right there in front of us..I think I just might refer OW to my H now as
"addiction" LOL!!!
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I just read through this again....
reading it really helps to understand that the OP is really a messed up person.
no doubt that it wont last with our spouses!
AND its amazing how simular their R's are. The things that are said and done, a huge eye opener!
and the ADDICTION!!! It's right there in front of us..I think I just might refer OW to my H now as
"addiction" LOL!!!
There's only one name I refer to when discussing OW "its trash ow".
She is NEVER referred to by name.
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It really strikes me how similar all of these OWs are! My h's fits the mold. I don't think I will ever forgive her. But I don't blame her personally for my h leaving me. He told me himself - If it hadn't been her, it would have been someone else.... NICE! He doesn't even realize that he fed me a textbook line from the MLC Handbook! LOL! It does hurt me to see him brought so low by this person - and I grieve for what he is going to be missing in his life and what he has already missed. I am sorry that our kids suffer too even though they are adults now 25 and 29. He does try to stay in touch with them, I will give him that. He tells me that he will ALWAYS be there for them. I replied once, yes, you will be there for them if you can, but you live 3 hours away now. They can't call you up and say, come on over for a cup of coffee....or share something with you that they would have if you were still in our lives.
Sometimes I feel responsible for all of this - when he tells me I did this or that which caused him to be unhappy. But when he came back, I made such an effort to put our relationship first so I know that he realizes that I cared and was willing to go for it 100%. That changed my reaction to him saying that we had grown apart and that were only roomates...it just simply wasn't true and he knows it (or he would if he would stop lying to himself)....
I would love to hear from others who had a similar experience - husband coming back, things in the relationship very much better and he still gives up and goes back to the ow......
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phoenixwoman1~Wow, what you said nailed it right on the head for me. It was like reading all about my H.
My H is her hero. He is her families hero. I was told they are all trailer trash people. I don't know if I really know the meaning of trailer trash but I do know they are all very poor. On FB I saw my H gave our furniture away to OW's brother and his wife. I was shocked. OW is needy, poor, 2 kids with different daddy's, lost custody of kids and was told she probably has STD's. But my H loves her and has cut me and his son off for a month today from all money. He's trying to starve me out of the Villa I rent. Wants me to get something cheap. I have no money to move. My Atty told me to stay were I am at because if I settle for less now I will be screwed and the longer H goes without paying me anything, the more trouble he is going to be in and the Judge is going to kick his ass. He is in contempt of court and he doesn't even care. Looking forward to that. ;D He is being so cruel to me and our S. We have had NC for a month now. Found out today my emergency court date isn't until Aug 3rd. I guess the courts don't know what emergency means. Also, H was supposed to have his financials at my Atty's by last Friday. Not there yet but he did make a settlement offer and it is soooo rediculous I can't even tell you. I guess he thinks I am stupid! ::) I really didn't want this to get ugly but I'm afraid it's going to. He is just being to mean and he doesn't even care if his son and I end up homeless in a tent someplace. This is all just to shocking.
Anyway, everything you said about H and OW is so true. My H has low self esteem. He's always needed alot of praise which I know I didn't give him anymore. OW definately builds his ego up. She kisses his ass and H just loves that. She makes him feel so important. Unbelievable that H's can leave their families, kids ect. just to have someone build up their ego. :o The part about us wives becoming independent makes sense to as I got my RE license last summer and H has thrown that in my face a couple of times when he first abandoned us. I think he was threatened by it. I think he felt like I didn't need him anymore. So sad. Here I was doing it to help us. I wanted him to be proud of me. I am so happy that I got my RE license but in the same sense I feel like it backfired on me. :'(
Life does go on. It's been 3 months since the BD and a little over a month since I found out about OW and I am definately in a much better place. Before knowing of OW I was very depressed but since finding out about her I am mad. And now that he has cut me and his only child from money, I am furious! >:(
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Heartbroken so sorry all the bad stuff. Keep your chin up. I know it's hard. Our MLCers are like drunk drivers swerving all over the road. They don't know what they want. :o :o Yet.. 8)
Trailer Trash refers to Trailer Park Trash b/c some people who live in these trailers act kind of "LOW CLASS" It is really not about wealth but more a lack of decency and everything makes your face scrunch up like this :o :o :o
They let their kids run outside in street with no shoes...ripped messy clothes.. ketchup on turkey at Thanksgiving. No nothing..no inspiration. no desire to be kind..well educated always fighting always cops always alcohol and drugs and unexplained pregnancies etc etc endless garbage and ugliness. Never a good shining moment. ALL WRONG. My take on it anyway..
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phoenixwoman1~Wow, what you said nailed it right on the head for me. It was like reading all about my H.
My H is her hero. He is her families hero. Anyway, everything you said about H and OW is so true. My H has low self esteem. He's always needed alot of praise which I know I didn't give him anymore. OW definately builds his ego up. She kisses his ass and H just loves that. She makes him feel so important. Unbelievable that H's can leave their families, kids ect. just to have someone build up their ego. :o
Heartbroken,
How true :(......when my H came back at Easter, contrite for 24 hrs and then the blame game started at me: my fault for everything including his affair! How when I was dancing with him - I didn't look at him but round the room??? I said "Did I?" ; the petty things he told me were unbelievable, but I allowed him to diss me for over 10 days...my self-esteem was non-existent and I just couldn't understand why my H would come back supposedly to make our marriage work; finish with OW and then start to rip me to shreds personally - obviously because he was still in love with all aspects of OW and missed her attention... hard for me to say but clearly spending time with me wasn't what he "needed". He was used to OW soothing his ego, using her favourite word that he was "special"; letting him persue his "reinvented" self....me? I was boring and part of his old life.....I just wish I could have said or done something to "compete"....
Having a bad day today :'( I still miss him, despite what he has done to me... but I know he's not coming back, too much water under the bridge really.... too many dreadful things said by both of us....and OW will neer let him go.... I try every day to move on but it is so hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. He's going on holiday with OW and her family next Saturday to Spain for a week - even though he has no money and she is supporting him!!! How wonderful does it make her look???? Irony here is that he accused ME of booking holidays despite US having no money :-\ I really don't understand how he can do this to me....
Fox xxxx
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FOX ~ I am so sorry. I can only imagine the excitement you had knowing your H was coming home for Easter only to have him be cruel to you. My H left a month before and Easter was mine and my sons first Holiday alone and it was dreadful. He said he was alone and didn't do anything. A month later found out about OW so I know he was with her and her family. :( I don't think I will ever understand how these men walk away from the wife and children just like that.
I like you, miss my H but he is being so cruel to us that I am beginning to feel hate towards him. He hasn't given me one penny in a month. I had to file to get support and found out my emergency court date for support isn't till Aug. 3rd! H is breaking the law. He mad a rediculous settlement offer yesterday through our Attorneys. I just laughed! I am not going to accept anything until he has to go to court and he has to face the consequences for cutting me and his only child off from all money for months! I have no money and he knows that. I always feel like he won't come back to. In all honesty, I don't feel like I would ever take him back anyway but it would be nice if he came crawling one day. ;D I hope you have a better day. I have my really bad days too. Take care.
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They let their kids run outside in street with no shoes...ripped messy clothes.. ketchup on turkey at Thanksgiving. No nothing..no inspiration. no desire to be kind..well educated always fighting always cops always alcohol and drugs and unexplained pregnancies
Mamma Bear...... BEST description of "trailer trash" EVER!!! ;D ;D ;D Ketchup on Turkey?
You are funny as all get out...
Foxberry and Heartbroken...... just so you know, "what you think about you bring about". It is appropriate to be angry with your spouses..... totally understandable... you'd be crazy if you weren't, but imagining they will never come back? If I thought there was no hope for my marriage, I wouldn't be here. Standing for my marriage is the hardest thing I've ever done, and I'm having to do most all of the work for now.... it's exhausting and there's not much gratification in it.... but I look at it like building a business.... the first couple of years you work your a** off and aren't making a profit.... there's no guarantee you will make it, in fact, the odds for success are against new business owners, but you are doing what you love and have a dream of a better future and HOPE for shorter hours and better pay in the end, LOL!!
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My new mantra is that H would be nuts not to want to come back to me. But atm he is nuts. If he doesn't come back it means he is still crazy (well, MLC crazy). If he does, then he is exiting the crazy tunnel. Maybe it is my ego, I don't know! I mean, I have no idea IF he will come back one day or not. But I do know that if he doesn't it will be his loss. I am feeling better about myself all the time. Getting past the 6 mth mark about a month ago seemed to mark something of a watershed for me. Not that I am never sad, of course, but these days I find it easier and easier to concentrate on me. Also, I realise that when I think of MY H I am thinking of him 2 or 3 years ago. I do not even picture him the way he looks now - his "new" image. I picture a laid back gentle man who would not wish to cause harm to anyone. I picture a man with a silly sense of humour and a twinkle in his eye. That man disappeared almost 2 years ago. I don't know the man he is now at all. He doesn't even look the same. He looks arrogant, contrite, sheepish, monsterish by turn... but NEVER laid back, chilled out and smiley.
Maybe that is just around me, who knows, even if it is, I don't like that particular man around me. Maybe one day I will see the "real" H again. If not, then in truth, I lost my H 2 years ago and a narcissist took his place - OW is welcome to that narcissist.
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Wise words indeed..... I too believe my H would be crazy not to come back to me, but when he told me "I ended our marriage last night" I thought all was lost for both of us.... and of course not a word from him since - our Wedding Anniversary came and went a week ago and now he's off on holiday with OW and her family....
I do agree though that the man who is behaving in this dreadful way isn't the man I have been living with for the past 28 years.... so maybe just maybe one day my H will break through and he will think about what he has lost along the way....
Love and hugs
Fox xxx
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My H OW is a typical needy, coming from a bad family, bad past xH who beat her and she needs to be recused and saved. She has back problems, bipolar and very desperate, with low self-esteem only those go after married men. She works at least, has a good job. I think she pretends to care about our D and what she has done, but it is just to keep him under her grip, lies. This one got her nails in and I doubt she's going to let go. She needs a husband badly. He doesn't respect her, at least that is the impression I got from things I've heard him say to her and to others, but he's in love, "thinks" he's in love. My D likes to say, to let them rot together, I have to agree. Right now they deserve each other. Two people willing to hurt others so easily, to destroy a family and a past. I only hope one day that he looks at her and sees what she really is and she spends the rest of her time with him, dripping in fear he will leave and do to her what she help him do to me.
The other day I was at my friends across the street where she lives with my H, she came over because my friends kid plays with hers, to see if they could play. My car wasn't outside so she didn't know I was in the house. My friend told her I was here, she ran out the porch and down the drive way like a rocket leaving her 5 year old on the porch. Embarrassed?????? They know what they are doing is wrong, but they are immortal and selfish. I hope the karma visits her and my H.
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Also, I realise that when I think of MY H I am thinking of him 2 or 3 years ago. I do not even picture him the way he looks now - his "new" image. I picture a laid back gentle man who would not wish to cause harm to anyone. I picture a man with a silly sense of humour and a twinkle in his eye. That man disappeared almost 2 years ago. I don't know the man he is now at all. He doesn't even look the same. He looks arrogant, contrite, sheepish, monsterish by turn... but NEVER laid back, chilled out and smiley.
Maybe that is just around me, who knows, even if it is, I don't like that particular man around me. Maybe one day I will see the "real" H again. If not, then in truth, I lost my H 2 years ago and a narcissist took his place - OW is welcome to that narcissist.
S&D
You just described my H perfectly. When I think of my H I too think of him from the past and not this "thing" he's become because he certainly is no man I know or have known ever! I grieve for the man he once was but I also pray for the "new & improved" man his is to become in time.
MammaBear
Best description of trailer park trash! That is it exactly. Picture Jerry Springer guests and that's what you get. Along with the bad teeth, bad hair, no morals and very "loose" in every aspect of their lives. Pitiful excuse for human beings. I would be able to forgive someone who didn't know any better but these OW/OM are predators & scum, who go from person to person without regard for their actions or who it might hurt as long as they get what "they" want. Even if it hurts their own.
Can I forgive my H? Yes, I believe I can some day because I KNOW he's not in his right mind. I also KNOW my H pre-MLC and he was not perfect by any means nor was I. Today, he is in the "FIRE" and I can't see him continue to "Burn" without helping in some way. Even if the ONLY thing I can do is "PRAY" for him. Whether he comes back or not. He is the F of my children and they do need their F and their F needs them. Even if they don't realize it yet. But he's nowhere near ready to be a F today nor would I want him to infect (yes you read that right) them with his madness. I will "PROTECT" them through all means necessary and will NOT waver. Even from their F. There's no compromise. H will need to do the "heavy lifting" when it's time for him to reconcile with our kids.
TS
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... bad past xH who beat her and she needs to be recused and saved. She has back problems, bipolar and very desperate, with low self-esteem only those go after married men. She works at least, has a good job. I think she pretends to care about our D and what she has done, but it is just to keep him under her grip, lies. This one got her nails in and I doubt she's going to let go. She needs a husband badly.
Mercury...so true - OW's first H cheated on her - she then married a "loser" apparently who beat her - my H came along and rescued her - got her to report the beatings to the police and the family see my H as their Mother's saviour!!! He can do no wrong in their eyes....his own family doesn't matter to him any more....Yes she has low self-esteem or she wouldn't have gone after my H - she told H "I've never met anyone like you before" and he felt for it....she's said that at least twice before! How stupid can men be....? She works as a successful account manager and it is her salary that is keeping them going at the moment as my H is paying all the bills on our home... So desperate is she that even when my H DUMPED her at Easter to come back to me whilst I was staying with my Son - after 2 weeks when H decided I was too much like hard work - she took him back no questions asked... what kind of woman does that? They are already cheaters and now OW knows H has still got feelings for me or he wouldn't even have tried!!! let alone told me time and time again that "he loved me"... of course his actions weren't those of love - just trying something different... that's what I saw myself as - something different that he hadn't tried for the previous 6 months he'd been away from me..... so very sad....
Love and hugs
Fox xxxx
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How stupid can men be....?
HEALTHY men are in NO WAY stupid but these MLCer men are CRAZY! Sorry, I had to comment on this because I myself find I get angry at men sometimes and then have to remind myself there are wonderful men all around. DGU, Ready, Rebel, OP just to name a few are the "real men" who are the example for what a healthy "REAL" man should be. I know for me, when I think about what qualities I want for in any man that's in my life now I think of these men. They are the standard by which I measure. I have a lot of guy friends and each of them are wonderful H and F. I pray my H becomes the man he needs to be but if he doesn't then that's his loss. He will have missed out on such a wonderful and happy life.
TS
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Fox, you need to remember that these MLCers are in an identity crisis! Rescuing someone is fun while it is a fantasy. And for a while thereafter while they feel like the saviour, but that is especially while the OW is still an affair, she is unknown except for what she says, she is wonderful, she is perfect. In reality she is far from perfect, we know it, they can't see it. Yet. But as living with them becomes the norm, they become less and less saintly, and gradually less and less perfect. What the MLCer doesn't want to let go of is the fantasy, the high, but eventually they will have to concede that the reality has not panned out the way they planned. OW is human, she burps and farts. And emotionally (and yours is a serious case in point) they are very damaged people. My H thinks he rescued his OW from her awful boyfriend. Boyf can't have been that awful because OW didn't actually leave him and move out until H had DEFINITELY left me and was looking for his own apartment, not that she uses men or anything. She had a job and a mother and, apparently, a friend she could have moved in with if she hated little old boyf so much (i kid you not - H told me she lived in the same town she grew up in and she had "a friend" - singular, sounds like she was loved by everyone - I am sure that the fact H felt she was "misunderstood" and he was the only one who could understand her added to her appeal) misunderstood/disliked - potato/potahto, semantics.
Anyway, my point - all is not as it seems, and all is definitely as a your H says. But even if he can't find the strength to escape, he will never be content. So, what choice do you have but to let go? Let go for your own sake, and don't worry about the results, you will survive and, indeed, thrive if you concentrate on your own well-being!
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Hi All,
Heartbroken: I know how it is with court dates...it seems so far off. Make sure try and get what you need legally, but my advice would still be civil and pleasant in person or with any contact. I just filed with DHS to get the thousands my XH owes me in child support. I had told him a few weeks ago where the line in the sand is. I won't mention it again, just take the necessary actions to get it legally. Remember..you catch more flies with honey! Sometimes you have to be a great actress and put on an academy award winning performance to keep emotions in check, but you will appear more classy for it I promise:) Let 'em get worked up (for trying to have security for you and your son Oh mY how could you..LOL). I was told I was selfish in wanting him to actually pay child support for the first time in 6 months. As for "trailer trash", I have no problem with decent people who live in trailers as they are not trailer trash. I know how you mean it of course..sounds like our H's OW are the true sense of the word... Welfare lifestyle, reproduce like dogs, and would do whatever it takes for their own gain. I laugh at the $5 dye job my XH's OW has...want to say "can't you at least spring for a decent coloring" LOL. Smoked in car with kids (until I had words with XH) and smokes inside with her own kids..what a gem.
Fox: My XH and I also "reconnected" briefly last winter, but just until OW was out of Rehab. He stopped setting up time with me and suddenly showed up with her and her son in the truck to pick my kids up. I was hurt all over again, but I can tell you I expected it. When he was with me he told me she was a "distracion". Told me he was "gun shy" about us getting back together. I'm not sure what was truth/ lies or whether he was just confused???
Stand and Deliver: I love that Nina Simone song..posted it on my f/b page a couple months ago :)
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I know everyone says that the other woman or man is an "affair down". But I wonder if that is always true. Maybe they are attractive, educated and really believe they are in love with our spouse or partner.
In my case my partner spent about 7 months in what I thought was a deep depression before the bomb drop. He told the other woman we were broke up during that time, though I was trying to encourage him to talk to someone during that time, giving him books and articles. We were still taking my dad out each week and other things, not broke up as he said to her.
The point is that she probably believed him so thought she was dating a free man, as we were not married.
I did have him pass on the message that I hoped she would step aside as I thought he was in a deep depression. She did not but maybe she thought I was just unwilling to accept that my partner said to her we were broken up. Is the ow ever the innocent, nice person, misled by our partner's lies? Though I do think she should have backed off when my partner told her I thought it was depression and asked that she step aside. She didn't so is that why she would be an affair down, because of her lack of respect for me an my 15 year partnership?
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Brokenhearted
Yep....here's a piece of RCR's article on the affair down.....things like educational level are not what makes it an affair down.
A Warning
Some of you will dismiss the Affair Down scenario when you learn the alienator is an MBA and has a higher paying job than you or your MLCer. Pond Scum is not an intelligence rating or indicative of educational or career level. A Rocket Scientist employed by NASA can be pond scum; intelligence, educational level or career status are irrelevant. Pond Scum is about mental and emotional instability. Some people compartmentalize well and are brilliant in their professional lives while being unable to maintain a healthy relationship. A caring kindergarten teacher can be an alienator. Emotional and mental instability knows no socio-economic or cultural bounds.
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If you need further proof of what an affair down is go read my post under "Validation MLCer is having a wonderful life". A Harvard PhD with R issues and not opposed to going out with married men is still an affair down.
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Does anyone know of statistics related to the success/failure rates, etc. of WAS's relationships with OP when they begin while married? I realize they are not ordinarily successful, but would love to know stats. Usual length of time I believe is an average of 2 years. Is it usually WAS or OP that ends the relationship?
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I don't know but I found out about OW when H sent me a text meant for her 11 days after he moved out and he said "Love U" but maintains he hooked up with her AFTER he left me.
Everyone says " sorry love, but he met her way before" So I don't beleive him. He says he's been 'friends' for a year and was very supportive when he confided about OUR marraige to her. She respected that he was married and so did he. :o The when he told her he had separated, she made her intentions known! "It just happened"!!
I do know I wrote him a letter in Sept '09 about being so emotionally distant and he started working at this new place a month before. So I'm guessing an emotional affair started some time there after as he also wrote me a letter saying I wasn't doing this and that etc basically shape up or I won't want to spend the rest of my life with you letter. I have no idea how long they will last though?
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First of all, remember not
to focus on the Ow/Om R...it isnt real...but for the sake of your sanity..there is a 99% fail rate.
HUGS
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I don't know the statistics, if there are any.
I don't believe 99% fail. I think many fail, but many also survive.
It's not about her or them. It's about your H and you can't control what he does.
You know what the two of you had together. Is it worth fighting for? Was he happy?
You have the best idea of whether or not he's coming back. Not based on what he says now, but on what you had together and who he truly is as a person.
Take the focus off of him and spend your energy on you.
The road is long and hard.
Hang in there.
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I actually looked up the stats...99% fail rate.
Because the R starts out with deciet and betrayal...
The OM/OW knows that the person they are with is a cheater....and the married person knows
that the Alienator has no morals.
The very foundation the R sits on, is broken and there is no trust.
Just my .02
Hugs
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Very few of these R will survive. How long? Is anybody's guess. It is not only an affair. It is an MLC affair which has predictable dynamics similiar to a regular affair but also a bit different too. There is NO trust, NO respect and NO foundation in this R. It is PURE fantasy. The only way to dispel fantasy....in some sitches...and with some MLCers....is to LIVE it...then it becomes REALITY. When you move forward and detach and take care of the one person you can...which is all you can ever do...it lets your H follow his FANTASY and make it a REALITY. For many MLCers this is the rock bottom of their life. A wake up call and the ALIENATOR is actually a perfect match to take them to rock bottom. If that makes sense. Trust in God that their is a PLAN here. THat you cannot commit such acts and not have consequences. Let go and let god take care of the consequences. YOU WILL BE FINE EITHER WAY. Have faith that all is as it should be.
HUGS
BUGS
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I am not sure if the information below directly answers the question.....but I think this statistic does give some insight and encouragement.
I think it's safe to say it's a low number of these relationships that succeed long term.
A lesser known fact is that those who divorce rarely marry the person with whom they are having the affair. For example, Dr. Jan Halper’s study of successful men (executives, entrepreneurs, professionals) found that very few men who have affairs divorce their wife and marry their lovers. Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers.
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How do you define "succeed"? If you mean live a life with, well, people live their lives with others in jail because they have no choice.... sometimes the MLCer won't come home because the LBS is not standing or forgiving by the time they wake up, which is typical.
I think your question is really "Does my husband REALLY love this OW? Is that what this is truly about?"
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RCR has a great review of the stats around here somewhere. I could not find it. Basically, the stats are not infavor of the A. Something like 5 out of a hundred are married and still together after 5 years. But. Does it matter? Yours is the one that matters. Hmmm.
@ LG. YES! What defines "success"? And what is LOVE? Are they together b/c it is the easier path? Or to prove out of stubborness that it was true love for which they have sacrificed EVERYTHING ?
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I think the info referred to by RCR is called Infidelity Statistics and can be found in the link to the blogs.
I think what is specifically being referred to by success in this thread is does an affair relationship tend to last, and the statistical answer is no.
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Plus think about it ..when two people meet and start to fall in love and move in together they let some time pass ...dating.....courtship etc That's NOT what we are experiencing. We are experiencing madmen (or women) with DEAD eyes RUNNING down the street to get away from their families. (not just the wife)
They were sad and depressed and in a panic when they did it. How could that miraculously turn into a loving,caring ,thought out relationship. Their foundation is built on dog$h!te and wet oatmeal. Pull--EEEZE............especially since most of the Hs on here or Ws were NICE TENDER CARING PEOPLE before this happened. I mean really....................... ::)
You'd have a better chance of Charlie Sheen at the top of the Republican ticket next fall :o then for an MLC Replay Affair Down turning into Camelot ::)
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You'd have a better chance of Charlie Sheen at the top of the Republican ticket next fall :o then for an MLC Replay Affair Down turning into Camelot ::)
Is that very unlikely? He still cleans up pretty well when he wants to, and all those Godesses would make a great cabinet...
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LMAO! Mamma!!
I can totally visualize our H's running down the street, butt-ass naked with their hair on fire...screaming
" I Cant take this anymore!!!!"
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Are they together b/c it is the easier path? Or to prove out of stubborness that it was true love for which they have sacrificed EVERYTHING ?
I see this as being a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE part of the dynamic of why it takes so long for them to return...but eventually BS even gets exhausting. Eventually and I think this is what takes so long...they have to dispel the LIES they are telling themselves. I would imagine that is a tough place to get to when there is so much damage created ON TOP of what the MLCer is already suffering.
Very few things are in their favor
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You'd have a better chance of Charlie Sheen at the top of the Republican ticket next fall :o then for an MLC Replay Affair Down turning into Camelot ::)
Mamma Bear - You're hilarious!! LMAO
Affairs does not a MLC make. Just because someone has an affair doesn't mean its based on MLC. Some affairs do in fact turn into long term successful 2nd marriages. Paul Newman and Sting are too examples of long standing marriages which started out as affairs from my understanding. Now I could be wrong but that's my understanding. Don't agree with it but it happens. But they were not having a MLC. Don't know about the accuracy of statistics nor believe it's really all that important IMO.
A MLC person is not in their right frame of minds as we know. The OP is simply a diversion from their reality and will eventually implode. Two NUTZO insecure people will create more NUTZO craziness. It's not healthy in any way. Running gets exhausting and in time they will have no choice but to stop. Now the MLC'er may keep running onto another OP but the same thing will continue to happen. Different OP same problem. They still need to face themselves even if it's the last thing they do.
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I look back on my relationship before BD and the more I read and learn the more I beleive I have been in an emotional and verbally abusive relationship. Whether H will realise that and want to return remains to be seen but he tells me enough that "Our marriage is over" and this is his life now. I don't disagree but he seems bent on letting me know at regular intervals. I don't feel he will stay with her long term and be happy.
I'm curious as to why LBS'ers take their MLC'ers back while they are still continuing with EA. My childrens' counselor strongly stressed that I was to be very careful in this regard as it's so upsetting for the kids. Mine has left twice but when he came back the first time I didn't know anything about MLC or that there was an OW.
Personally, I could not accept him back while he is #@!!# OW. And I think his narcissm will keep him from ever admitting he has a problem because that's how he's always been (ie it's always some one elses fault and it's up to others to make him happy). The only glimps of fixing himself was before I met him when he stopped smoking pot and quit 'cold turkey' . We've yet to see that strength again.
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Mamma am sure God sent you and LG to us to enable us LBS to laugh again that statement about h running off down the street from their family’s had me in stitches i nearly wet myself........its a bit like the movie FUN FOREST RUN.............OHHHHHH and im sure you and Lg are twins or come from the same cast, i never tire of reading your two posts lol...............sorry for the hijack.............xxxxxxxxxxx
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It is correct that an affair by itself is not MLC. There are a list symptoms in addition to that.....which for most of our MLCers, you can put a check by the majority of them. The "speech" in some form, the urge to abandon or run, hopelessness, seeking happiness/fulfillment....the list goes on.
I also don't necessarily put that much in statistics themselves, but I would also venture to say that the statistics we do know can help us with our Stand. And even throwing the numbers aside......statistical conclusions can be helpful.
For instance, would nearly as many people Stand if we knew that "most" MLCers did NOT make it through their crisis?
Would it be even harder to ignore the OM/OW if we knew "most" affairs turned into long term relationships or marriages?
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Still Praying.....
I understand YOU 100%!! my H has NEVER shown remorse for anything....it has ALWAYS been someone elses fault.
but now through this MLC....for the first time EVER, he has shown remorse fo this and The PAST...
so dont give up on him just yet....He may start to show it someday!
There IS hope!!!
Hugs!
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Thanks Synicca,
Need those words of encouragement to not give up hope.
It's so sad that all these MLC'ers can't see or feel the strength and love of the LBS and the families. If they knew how much we cared and are willing to go thru, I'm sure they'd not be in a crisis and throw away something so deep and precious for something so cheap and shallow.
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How do you define "succeed"? If you mean live a life with, well, people live their lives with others in jail because they have no choice.... sometimes the MLCer won't come home because the LBS is not standing or forgiving by the time they wake up, which is typical.
I agree, but it isn't ALWAYS just the LBS that keeps the MLCer away; the MLCer could be too scared to come back because, no matter how much the LBS says that all can be forgiven, the MLCer just can't wrap his/her head around it and they stay away. It really depends on if the MLCer can come to terms with and accept what he/she did and move past it; and/or deal with their FOO issues.
I'm sure a lot of MLCers don't go back to their spouse even though they desperately want to; some don't know HOW to get back; they are too stuck in their issues and guilt.
JMHO
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Here's RCR's blog on this subject
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/page/19
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With the divorce rate for second marriages hovering at 67% which is higher than the first marriage. This is based upon 2006 Data. That includes marriages where one of the spouses has died.
In an affair, part of the excitement, is the cheating part. Just like shoplifting when we were younger, the excitement of getting away or being bad is part of the high.
However, once the high is over, and the relationship becomes just two-the high is gone. The reality begins to set in that this is not a prince or princess, but rather just another person with attractions and detractions just like your spouse. The may have some ideals that the previous spouse lacked but in the same vein, lack ideals that the previous spouse held.
Also, the affair is based on lies. It is people that are currently lying to others to cover their tracks. How can any relationship that is built upon lies last for long?
How long the affair lasts depends on the frequency of the contact. I think that once they start living with the ow/om, it begins to drift apart quickly. Reality really sucks at times. From RCR writings, the typical affair lasts about two years. Of course, the data is very hard to come by since most people do not talk in depth about their affairs.
My advice is not to worry about such data. Focus on you. Let them live/deal with om/ow and you can concentrate on your own personal change and movement forward.
((((Hugs))))
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Just like shoplifting when we were younger
Ummmm.... are you bragging or just admitting, Ready? For the record, I never shoplifted! I cheated, but I never shoplifted, LOL!!
The short answer to your question StillPraying, about "taking your husband back while still involved in an EA" is.... there is NO short answer. Sorry. First of all, in MY case, I never "took my husband back"... he let himself in the front door every time whether I wanted him to or not. Second, he's not in his right mind. If this was a "normal" affair, it wouldn't be an issue... he wouldn't WANT to be back while still with OW.... MLC gives us a special set of circumstances that are SO messy and all over the place....that the MLCer very often cannot get rid of emotionally blackmailing OW even while he is desperate to be with his wife and family. It's like asking a man in a wheelchair to get up and walk.
Thirdly, since I'm at the point where my husband is desperate to be home, but filled with fear, and OW is emotionally blackmailing him, I enjoy throwing a wrench into her plans of stealing my husband away from his kids. I love my husband and I like sleeping with him. I like him to fix the garbage disposal and mow the lawn. He's still wierd and angry at the world, but that's only part of the time. The rest of the time, we are finding out how to have a better relationship, communication wise, than ever and the kids are glad to have finally have him here.
Fourthly, I believe it helps him gain strength to leave OW for good (now that he is ready) to be HOME, which is where his heart is. If they are infatuated with OW still, they will simply run all over you to get to her, so it's not working in your favor in the beginning to have him home.
I'll also mention, for what it's worth, my husband started trying to come home only about 3 months after BD.... it's been 16 months now that he's been with her. In the beginning, it was probably ALL to do with missing the kids, trying to do the "right thing" and guilt... but almost immediately after he moved in with her and her daughter, he wanted to be AWAY from her.... I was in no emotional position to set my hurt feelings aside at that time, and it caused him to stay with OW because he couldn't handle the pressure and occasional blow ups from me. That's just the truth. Now, I'm good with it all... I don't like it, but I bide my time while he sorts it out with the ho-tel maid.
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Thanks LG for your honest response.
My H did leave early Feb 11 for a few days and then wanted to come back, I believe because of the kids. He then left in early April 11 (I told him he needed to leave) and has been living alone since. He says there was no affair with this OW but he was having an emotional affair with some one at work as he bought them $96 of flowers which I discovered on his CC statement. (He did lie about it at first). So, I don't know how long this affair has truely been going on for but everone says longer than the 2 and a half months since he left me and I dicovered it. Definitely still infatuated with her though.
It's good to have an insight into what could possible transpire in future and be some what prepared on how to handle it or at least consider all options and responses before acting.
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Forgot to point out.... not only is the MLC Affair built and based on lies and deceit, it's not long before they begin lying to EACH OTHER..... in my case (and many others) our spouses then CHEATED ON OW with US....and OW found out (by accident on purpose, hahaha!) and then all hell broke loose and it became the bizarre world of "How dare you cheat on me with your wife!! I don't trust you to be around her AT ALL and I forbid you to see your kids because you will probably sleep with her!" :o :o
And to that I said ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Then eventually it turns into the MLCer lying to OW so he doesn't have to see her... so he can be with his wife and family.... 8)
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Ha Ha. Gotta laugh - quote - "How dare you cheat on me with your wife". That is so funny. Who knows what will happen in my case. Right now I am still the 'hated one'.
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You're laughing at that? It was TRUE for me, for Shantilly, and for a whole host of others here who may or may not admit it... I admit I did it with malice in my heart for OW, hehehe! ;) Give it some time... ya never know!
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Laughing at OW. How deluded they are.
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Hey SP,
I haven't had a lot of time up my sleeve at present. Work, kids and an MLCer underfoot has me busy.
Also add being sick I have collapsed earlier then my norm. I really want to catch up with you and your situation as well as others.
As for being the hated one remember this hatred is not the opposite of love. Indifference is. The thing is with MLC the mask can be mistaken for indifference.
So if you are the hated one that is a good sign as passion is still there just warped. And Altho a bad analogy the best romance novels start with the lovers loathing each other.
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LG, Do you ever worry that he won't choose? I only ask because my friend did that for almost 10 years, 30 years ago. He went from her to OW, and back, he never wanted to choose. My friend finally said she was done, and kicked him out. He is still painfully married to OW and his kids hate him, he still tells her he loves her every chance he gets, and still supports her financially.
She was the one who convinced me that I had to kick him out and go NC right from the beginning, that I had to let him go, so he can make his choice and live with it, and not put my kids through the hell that her kids lived, and I know all her kids, they are still scarred. Not being critical, just wondering how you know he'll come out of it in a decent amount of time and you won't have given away all of yourself for nothing, like my friend did...
She is one of the people I know who came out well on the other side, but she is not thankful for the years she wasted waiting and trying to be understanding.
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Hey!! the " How dare you cheat on me with your wife" LOL!!!!
Been there....Done that!! 8)
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LisaLives...
In answer to your question... my husband has already chosen me. There was a long period of uncertainty, and then I knew he wanted to come home, but I was so angry he didn't feel it would ever work.
I have every right to be angry, and believe me, I'm not "understanding" that he's going to be at OW's tonight doing whatever, but if you want your husband to find his way home, you don't put up obstacles in his path. We talk about being the better option... unfortunately, you are an option in his life.... he knows OW is horrible, but for some reason, MLCers cannot be alone, so they will choose her for lack of a better option if they are afraid to come home.
MLCers have NO self esteem and they feel unloved.... they will NOT make a HUGE effort to leave OW if they feel it might not work with you, and then they won't have anyone... :o that's straight from the horse's mouth, by the way.
As Shantilly says "we are tempting them" little by little while OW is driving them back to us with her anger and jealousy and insecurity and neediness.... once you get them home, they need a grace period to finish out their MLC before you start in with the "talks".... you really need to accept that your husband is unwell emotionally, so asking him to commit to something or go to MC or anything is really way too much.
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My h admitted to Ow one time that he slept with me and that's what she said, "How could you?" ...hello ...he's married...idiot these ow.
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When I snook down an alley where my H parked his car when he went on limo runs and saw him 2 weeks post BD I tried to kiss him and he pulled away like I had N1H1 Swine Flu or something :o :o :o I guess he didn't want to be unfaithful to Bowser. Didn't want to cheat on her with me. The stupid wife who pushed him away. "What I asked from you Mamma Bear was so simple. Yet you couldn't do it" :o :o :o :o WTF?
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Mamma,
2 weeks post BD would have sent my H screaming away from me.....
when we first "cheated" LOL! it was about 2 months after..and he felt horrible because he was unfaithful
to her.....but now...since we have made love :o about 10 or more times in the last 8 months..
he doesnt feel that guilty...but then again...now he is having ED issues..... >:( >:(
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LG, Do you ever worry that he won't choose? I only ask because my friend did that for almost 10 years, 30 years ago. He went from her to OW, and back, he never wanted to choose.
It sounds more like he opted to let either his wife or the OW make the decision for him. Which is, in itself, a choice -- not a particularly courageous one, but we are talking about MLC. It allows him to avoid taking responsibility for making the "wrong" decision; he's "stuck" with OW because his ex-wife won't take him back.
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Mamma.... leave your man alone..... you will have your turn at hyperbonding a little further on up the road... right now, you are just the same old same old so leave him alone.
Everyone knows my husband has had a problem with ED since at least 5 years ago, but it wasn't as bad as he thought.... now, which came first? The depression or the ED? No way for me to know... but he takes pills with OW so as not to fail... with me, no pills and sometimes it works GREAT... others....not so much which makes him feel worse. I'm sure the guilt doesn't help, either, but I don't think it's guilt for cheating on OW in my sitch... now I think he just feels like such a jerk for cheating on ME...
Remember, their minds are full of chaos... sort of like a woman's and we all know how long it takes us to warm up.... more like a diesel engine than a regular one, LOL!!
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LG I wasn't hyper bonding, was I? Oh, what is that? I do leave him alone. What were you referring to. I never call him. I never go anywhere I might run into him. I have duct tape over my pie hole. Were you referring to the above post? Where I tried to give him a kiss? That was Washington's Birthday back in February. Since then nothing...I wouldn't want to appear too forward. I mean I've only know him for 16 years. Been married for 11................ :o :o :o :o :o
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Hyperbonding is when both of you bond again (temporarily unfortunately).
It will involve lots of great sex, affection and fab times.
Then as far as I can tell they withdraw again *sigh* :-\
Mine lasted about 3 or 4 weeks. Before that I was nothing.
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Thanks Shant, I'm starting to HATE THEM...You can not make this s**t up. Holy Cow. What insanity! OK I'll watch out for that :o :o :o....sounds like something I would not want :o Not he new improved me 8) 8)Especially since I don't drink anymore.......LOL
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Well for me I thought he was coming home. And he did for 3 days.
It isn't something you realise till afterwards it feels real and solid and yep he's coming home, a celebration almost.
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Ouch! Sorry. I forgot we don't have a crystal ball. That must've really sucked :(
I got thinking before about this topic (what was it again?) Statistics..there is no way there could be statistics worth anything b/c of the nature of what we're dealing with here. Too many variables.
I guess if you think about what a lot of us are looking at it's like watching someone HIT ROCK BOTTOM. When that happens they either turn back for assistance from a place of trust and safety or they spiral further and further down into a black hole. Thats the choices as I see them. These crazed maniacs are not abandoning families and skipping down a path of tulips and parasols. 100% chance of that ;D
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The article you're looking for was in the original newsletter and I just put it up on the blog.
Will the MLCer Marry the Alienator? (http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/midlife-crisis-and-infidelity/will-the-mlcer-marry-the-alienator)
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RCR,
Thanks for posting the link to your earlier article. I'd remembered reading it when I first came onto this site and it was good to reread.
Unfortunately, in my little circle of friends and relatives (maybe we're talking 150-200 people here) I know of 2 marriages that resulted from affairs and they are still ongoing (from 20 to 25 years.) I've also made it a bit of a study in talking with friends since my H left 6 months ago and have heard a number of stories from them about marriages that were the results of affairs. Two girlfriend's fathers, for example, left their mothers for OW and the marriage lasted until the death of one of the partners.
There are also, of course, more examples among my family & friends of affairs that did not result in marrages/the marriages did not last.
So, if in my small circle there were 2 long term marriages as the result of affairs, it makes me queasy about the chances for my marriage. I'm not saying I don't believe the published studies, I do. It just is uncomfortable to know that these situations, in my limited circle, have happened.
TMHP
M 58
H 60
D 22
M 38 yrs
BD Jan. '11
H living with OW
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I am in a minority on this site I think in that my ex husband has married his OW.
He started his emotional affair in November 2008, left me after I confirmed his affir (he denied it) on October 2009, the divorce was final on 11th April 2011 and he married her on 17th June 2011.
She was his ex girlfriend from 27 years ago and had never married and has no children.
I'll keep ya all posted.....
Peace
P
xx
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This was a subject my friend and I were discussing yesterday,
If the Affair R does last...and they do marry...and are in MLC....What are the chances then? If they are so screwed up
in the head and stay in Replay for years and years....do they stay in the marriage because they are stuck??
just because it lasts...doesnt mean they are happy, My Dad is miserable now ( married his OW, going on 9 yrs )
and he is depressed ALL the time, doesnt really want to stay married to her but does because of finances. ( his excuse)
but he is almost 70 years old.
IDK, hard to tell...this friends EX married his Affair woman..and he is miserable too...been married for almost 10 years,
He says his wife is a mean person, and recently cheated on her, but wont leave her because SHE has everything in
her name now???? dont know if that is a resonable excuse..
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Unfortunately, in my little circle of friends and relatives (maybe we're talking 150-200 people here) I know of 2 marriages that resulted from affairs and they are still ongoing (from 20 to 25 years.)
So, if in my small circle there were 2 long term marriages as the result of affairs, it makes me queasy about the chances for my marriage. I'm not saying I don't believe the published studies, I do. It just is uncomfortable to know that these situations, in my limited circle, have happened.
Technically the affair-to-marriage stats would be based on a sample made up of people having affairs--so out of 200 affairs a certain percentage may end up married--and tha marriages themselves would have a high rate of divorce.
But let's use your sample of 200 people. From that 200 you know of 2 couples, 4 people who had an affair and married. That's 2%. That fits the stats.
Before Sweetheart's MLC I personally knew of very few situations of infidelity. Now there may have been many going on that I didn't know of, but the one that rises to the top of is not just a memory but more of an experience. I can only think of that one case where I was certian of infidelity. I have a suspected case on the other side (you'll know what the other side refers to in a moment); but only one where it was certain.
And my stepmother is still married to her OM. She and my Dad will celebrate their 25th anniversay in February.
As for my Mom...well there was the very close (suspicious) relationship she had with my Uncle--my Dad's sister's husband. They were separated for a few months when I was about 4, but they got back together. And yet I don't think I'd say they were very reconconciled. They loved each other, but in the way the Bickerson's or that couple in the comic strip--the Lockhorn's?--and they didn't have sex for 25+ years. I know because they were vocal about it.
But if I were to take the sample from my life, of the definite affairs 50% ended up married. I almost said 100% because I actually forgot to include Sweetheart! Awesome, I forgot!
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And of course I have the friend whos ex-wife married the other man.....and recently divorced the other man after a year and a half marriage.
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Thanks everyone for your responses. I'm getting much better about not letting exHs R with OW get to me, but knowing the statistics really helps! Since they've broken up so many times over the past year (albeit for a few days at the most) I have a hard time believing it will last. ExH seems to cling to her tenaciously though. I guess if he's willing to except her being pregnant with another man's child there is absolutely nothing he won't put up with...at least for now. I don't question my kids at all about their time there, but they don't come home telling me about any fights or anything. It seems things are pleasant. ??? Very hard to figure out, and I'm getting better about not analyzing it all the time, but by no means perfect. :)
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her being pregnant with another man's child
Phoenixwoman...... are you F'ing KIDDING ME??????? :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Ok, well your husband wins the prize for MOST AFFAIR DOWN! This is the MOST insane thing I've ever heard.... I thought it was MammaBear's husband moving in with his convenience store ow that he only knew for two weeks... but.... going to read your entire thread for this bit of Jerry Springer, hahaha!!
I wouldn't worry AT ALL about OW affair if they break up constantly like my husband and his OW did and still do, although, in his MIND, he's permanently left her, but physically.... not so much... :o
Re-read RCR's articles on the affair down... they're the BEST kind... especially the OBVIOUS ones, cuz the REST of the world will go :o :o :o
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MF, I hope you come back to this thread. My H is getting married to OW also, and S12 and I just got back from a wedding of a girl who was like a daughter to me. I had a business and we are in a college town, so I have several girls that I have treated like family over the years, but this was far and away, the one who meant most to my whole family. WOW, did a LOT of questions come up, about promises and life, and weddings, but most important to me, and one I have avoided thinking about, but it raised it's nasty head. My kids have always been overly concerned with what happens to them if we die. Probably because we have always lived far from any family and even then there are few suitable parental situations. So if H goes first there are no issues, all would be the same as before. However, if I go first, wow...
Have you resolved this? Did you give him any input? There is no way I willl allow HER to have any of my money, that's for sure. She can have the H, and she could end up with my kids, but holy hell, I am not going to give her anything I can actually control. I told H this some time ago and he blew a gasket--that he is no longer the beneficiary of my life insurance... And what if he should pass soon after me, will she get my kids... How insane is that scenario? But in reality there is nothing I can do to prevent it. That's what S12 was asking me, what happens to them if I die, and I told him I couldn't answer that, only his Dad could. So I sent H an e-mail telling him that it had come up. It has come up before, but I really think now we have to address is since we both need new wills, etc.
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LisaLives... OW doesn't want your kids... even if she is married to your husband for the rest of her life....even if you pass... she doesn't really sign up for that scenario... but it could happen, and it doesn't have to be all bad... but get your will in order.
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LG--If OW wants my H in the state he's in, why wouldn't she want my awesome kids and all the money that comes with them? I think she would TELL him she wants his kids. She would have to say that to get him, just like she says her kids are going to share a room so that my kids can have their own rooms for the two months they spend there every year... And he is going to convince himself and try to convince my kids that she loves them--he tried to tell me that on BD (which was why I hired my attorney the next day...)... One day when SHE wakes up she'll realize she doesn't want my kids, but what if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, and remember he had a heart attack in March... I am not freaking out, really, I knew I had to deal with this, but I was just wondering if anyone else had, legally, and if there are any options I haven't considered... It's all so crazy...
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Lisa... she doesn't want your kids... she's just posturing for your husband and he is falling for it because "people break up all the time and then their families are blended and everyone gets along and is happy"... make provisions for your kids the best you can and try and stay alive, that's all!But you're insane if you think that just because she wants your husband and his paycheck she wants his kids.... She doesn't even GRASP the concept of your husband paying child support and spousal support.... she's IGNORANT!! Moneygrubbers usually are....
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LG and LL
Might I add that moonlocks addresses this very topic in a very appropriate "NEW Schmoopie video"...Check it out here.
http://soulmateshmoopies.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/part-15-my-ex-wife-is-a-zombie/
Hysterical....really
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Letting Go, My XH's OW doesn't even have a job unless you count being a career welfare mother :) The thing is that he doesn't seem ashamed at all. He brought her to his brother's wedding this past weekend noticably preggers and all!!! Apparently not ashamed and quite proud of her. I'm thinking FOO thinks he is a hero as well since he "saved" her from her Oxycontin habit. Not her cigarette habit though..still smoking pregnant (probably smoking pot and drinking too but not sure). Poor innocent baby:(
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PW1, Isn't that the kicker in the whole thing--they have no shame whatsoever. It's just amazing...
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PW1..... still trying to wrap my head around your husband's choice of OW.... I can't.
There's always a bright side... at least she can't get pregnant by him.... :-\
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I cannot imagine a man getting involved with a single pregnant women and leaving his wife and family for that?
What is he thinking? That is just mind blowing. :o :o :o
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The other bright side is that you KNOW he's crazy. I still sometimes think my H is sane and he really has found true love and I really was THAT bad. I wish my H's affair down was more obvious. Never though I'd be jealous that my husband didn't have an affair with a pregnant, trampy addict... How sad is that?!
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I agree! He really must be in MLC. I sometimes wonder if my ex really should have stayed with his old flame all those years ago, as it all seems to be still going strong and I am treated almost like a stranger. His daughter and her new boyfriend are staying with them next week so I am sure the full charm offensive will be operating! Strangely though, apparently neither of them can remember why they broke up thirty years ago (and didn't even stay in touch).
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Lisalives PW1 That is so true. I sometimes ask my bestfriend "Does my hair look good like this? Does my lipstick? How clean is this house? I'm trying to make a good impression on my vicodin addicted, vodka drinking,rolaid eating,almost unemployed H who is shacked up with a Bowser ow." How crazy is that? :o :o :o
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Maybe it's US that's crazy.... for wanting these wierdos in our lives at all!! All they seem to do is piss us off every time we see them anyway.... I'm currenty in pissed off mode at how utterly STUPID my husband's BEHAVIOR is... notice I said BEHAVIOR... he's so CLUELESS that being SO IN LOVE WITH ME and GONNA GET RID OF OW SOME DAY are in direct oposition to one another... what f'd up movie is he starring in?
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LG Remember what Stayed's H said. It's NOT OW It's the allure of a NEW LIFE ::)
that's why when we focus on OUR new lives they look across at us and think "Hey wait a second. What's she doing now???" :o :o :o
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Yes Mamma Bear ~ I think thats it. It's the new life they want. My H talked about missing out on things. I said like what.
He said going to Harley functions ect.. At that point he hadn't abandoned us nor did he have the Harley. 2 weeks later
he did though. I really feel like me and our S cramped his life style that he was so craving. To be free. Even though
he has OW and has since last fall, H could never go away on his new Harley with us. Our S definately would have
been in the way. BD was in February, affair started last October or during the summer months. Gee, wonder when
it's all going to start wearing off and not be so much fun anymore. ::)
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LG, LL, HB...IKR! He's been with her for a year, but apparently when they broke up for a couple months (she was in residential rehab) she went back to ex-BF (and baby daddy #3) and got pregnant. My ex still went back to her though. He had a vasectomy 9 years ago so at least he won't be getting anyone pregnant! I couldn't make this sh#t up, LOL!!! BTW she was in the picture before BD
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So I've been reading fast here what's she pregnant for now a couple of years? :o
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I've just driven home from a friends birthday party - feeling absolutely furious!
I met a woman that I hadn't met before. We talked about a variety of subjects - psychology being one. One subject lead to another and she randomly told me that she understands being in an altered reality state herself. When was that I asked, curious.
The answer was, 'when I had an affair with a married man'.
I asked how she felt about it, and she said it was a very easy thing to slip into, and as she has no respect whatsoever for relationships, she didn't feel any remorse for being involved with a married man with kids.
She said she doesn't believe that relationships can last 'for ever' and he was hers for the taking.
I asked where she got that idea from, her family? No, she said it was in her early 20's when she was constantly targeted by 'unhappy' married men.
I couldn't help myself and had to ask 'what was it about you that kept attracting that sort of man?'
She looked genuinely stunned, and said that was a good question and that she'd have to think about it.
Her nonchalance truly floored me. She was far from a creature of outward beauty, and I have to say I saw little inner beauty either.
I'm a bit gob smacked and feel I was meant to have met her tonight and have that conversation.
I know she's not the OW in my marriage, but the conversation brought up huge emotions for me anyway.
I must have lived a very sheltered life, as I've never had a conversation like that before in my life.
She was the first to leave the party tonight, and I watched her go around the room and say goodbye to EVERY MALE in the room, and not one single female. Says it all .................
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Kikki,
I think that was a great question to ask her. That's probably why hse had to leave early. Go and have time to think that one over ???
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I asked how she felt about it, and she said it was a very easy thing to slip into, and as she has no respect whatsoever for relationships, she didn't feel any remorse for being involved with a married man with kids.
I think this is a very key sentence. People who become involved with married people are not thinking abouut anything, but their own personal needs. They don't think beyond the moment. The MLC'er is a vulnerable target for these individuals....whether they are seeking or being sought out. They are like teenagers whose momentary lapse of jugdment sends them in a downward spiral.
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Still Kiki..yeah and if we ask in the beginning "What are you doing to your life?" They will respond "None of your business. I'll do what I want it's my turn now." Have at it, Einstein. They need to learn life's lessons first hand. Pass the popcorn......OWs are messed up. I would feel sorry for them but she is messing with someone I care about so I won't. I'll let Go and Let God.
Oh I just remembered another "I met an OW story" at work one day I was talking to a traveling pharmacist. I told her about my sitch. She's about my age 50 ish. She listened intently and then said...get ready... " Oh my boyfriend is married. You are so correct. If his wife was nice to him he would go home. She is always nasty."
My jaw hit the ground. I'm thinking ' you are an ow a**hole."
Crazy..Crazy...
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I can tell you.....people that mess around with married persons...have NO self respect.
My H told me yesterday, that his OW rants about ME...that I should "get a job" and take care of
myself and NOT ask HIM for ANYTHING concerning OUR D13.....
Really??? I just spent about 600.00 bucks on my D, when my H has spent 30.00 for pictures and OW threw
a temper tantrum!!!
Money hungy woman!!! She has NO job and FEEDS off of MY H's MONEY!! grrr Dont get me started....LOL!!
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yeah don't get her started..Trust me on this one..LOL She'll have me mapquesting Wolcott NY and driving over there. ::) ::)
I'll dress like a pizza delivery girl and pretend I'm at the wrong house. Ok ? Syn? I'll find out the REAL sitch. and I'm sure it's all rose petals and a million candle all around.like on the Soap Operas. :o :o NOT!
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You'll find him sitting on the couch with OW pointing her finger at him yelling about HOW he wont file for Divorce
and that I am his Princess wife and I am the bomb and SHE is the ow!! hehehe
listen for that raspy scratchy voice coming from Apartment #39..cant miss it!! LOL!!
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I have also met another woman in passing. I was shopping and resting at one of the benches the mall and got to talking with another woman who requested to sit next to me while she waiting for someone to arrive. This was about a year ago. Anyways I asked if she was awaiting a husband or children to return. She hesitated and then she said boyfriend, hesitated again and then I got the sense that she really couldn't say but she said that she wasn't married. It was not a typical relationship - I could just sense it. Sometime about her said that she was uncomfortable. And it wasn't because we were casually talking.
Anyways it occurred to me (and perhaps her) that it was one of those moments when you know you are going to meet someone only for a short time and then probably never again (on an airplane, train, bus, you get what I mean).
I read between the lines through the 20 minute convo with her... eventually I figure it out -she was an affair partner and had him wrapped around her little finger. ..he was so cute and smart, he adored her. I saw that she was in her mid 40's perhaps. She intimated that she just agreed with him and catered to his needs and do just about anything he wanted toot suite. Anyway, he finally arrived and he looked like any joe shmoo to me. Yes, it was wearing a wedding ring.
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Probably one of our Hs :o
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I reread my last sentence. I thought I posted "he" was wearing a wedding ring after editing it. I guess "it" wasn't changed after all. Maybe it was meant to be an "it"....he he.
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IT is perfect...Clown Man wearing a mask. :o
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kikki, your story's truly chilling. It's hard to imagine such women exist. I've always known they do but, well, I never thought such a person would ever be in my life.
What's so disturbing is that, when one's H is "ripe" for MLC, these women will appear in their life. My H met his OW while standing in line to attend a lecture on spirituality(!) That's his story anyway.
H's OW has been married twice, divorced her 2nd H of 15 years to be with my H. H tells me that OW's first husband was an alcoholic and her second husband was "abusing her" and that's why she had to leave him. When I asked what type of abuse H told me that he hit her during a fight. This fight happened to occur at the time my H and OW began their PA. Coincidence?
It's all so sordid. People without a conscience are scary.
I'd like to tell a story about myself related to this. 30 years ago I was working at a small college and became infatuated with the president, a man 15 years older than me. We worked closely together. He was married and had two young daughters. I knew he was smitten with me, too and, for a brief period, I fantasized about having an affair with him; how I could signal to him my interest, etc. (I'd been married for 11 years to my H at this time.)
One day I was lying on my bed dreamily thinking about having this affair when I suddenly thought about his wife and what my having an affair with her H would do to her (I knew her slightly.) It was the first time I'd considered her at all. Then I thought about what it would do to his young daughters. Well it was like a bucket of cold water being thrown on my face. I remember sitting up in bed and thinking, "I can't hurt this woman. She's done nothing to me. What am I thinking?"
Although I continued to be infatuated, I never again thought about initiating an affair. I continued to have strong feelings for the man but my "affair planning" was over. In time, of course, the infatuation faded and today I can't even believe I seriously thought about doing it.
My point is I think this is the reaction of "sane" people. I suspect most people fantasize at some point in their lives, whether they're married or not, about having an affair with someone who is "off limits" to them because of being married, being engaged, huge age difference, geography, ex of a friend, whatever, but they don't do it.
However, to be compasionate to our MLCers, most people aren't going through MLC when they make such decisions not to have an affair. Our MLCers are exceptions. I'm not condoning their actions, I'm simply saying that I believe people in MLC have temporarily lost their ability to make conscious moral choices and are hyper susceptible to turning to an affair to distract them from their pain/depression. It's a complicated dynamic that's going on within them, unique to their "condition."
TMHP
M 58
H 60
D 22
M 38 yrs.
BD Jan. '11
H living with OW
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Trusting, Very well said. I agree. It's weird isn't it? I guess when someone is desperate and needy their conscience is over ridden by their own issues .
I still can't believe that the one time D11 met OW D said"My Mom misses and loves my Dad and wants him to come home."
She said "I understand."
Nice personality. Nice core values. Nice way to hook up with a child and converse. :o This is the convenience store OW. Price check aisle two....
Reality check Aisle 3. :o
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"Reality Check in aisle 3"! Oh MB, thanks for giving me the best laugh I've had all week! We need to laugh as much as we can through all this.
Thanks again!
TMHP
M 58
H 60
D 22
M 38 yrs.
BD Jan. '11
H living with OW
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I see all us LBS's in aisle 3!! Where are ALL the OW's and H's??? Maybe they got Carjacked on the way here??? hehe
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I asked how she felt about it, and she said it was a very easy thing to slip into, and as she has no respect whatsoever for relationships, she didn't feel any remorse for being involved with a married man with kids.
Since just about EVERYTHING is wrong with this statement, I don't quite no where to begin, but I would note that it is interesting that it is extremely likely this woman will never be able to sustain any form of relationship and the fact that she is still single is telling. The married men went for her, yes, but why is she still alone? Because she represents commitment free sex with an emphasis on commitment free. My guess is that she is desperate to have a long-term relationship. DESPERATE. But has written them off because her mentality means that a) she attracts the wrong men as you said and b) she has no respect for relationships so in the end relationships have no respect for her.
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Part of my journey has lead me to a website called baggagereclaim.com- it started formyquest to understand why W become OW and to separate out the behaviour from what my exH was telling me about her (5 star awesomeness!!). Anyway I still read the updates and all of these woman have low self esteem and beton long shots and 'future fake'
My exH OW- ex girlfriend from 27 years ago - was 42 never been married and doesn't have any children. My gut instinct is that she has made a habit of being with emotionally unavailable men, probably married, as she is incapable of having a grown up relationship.
I was married to my exH for 14 years - you don;t get to that by being rubbish at relationships....she is now married to exH - married to an MLCer and NOT KNOWING what's going on.....I've got the good end of the stick I think!!
Right I'm going out tonight GALing!!!
((hugs))
P
xx
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Hi MB............ i after laugh at your statement about o/w being in aisle 3.............i doubt that i think she will be in the damaged goods section with a reduced sticker on her......or shes that damaged that they throw in her in the trash lol xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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WGH,
Maybe they will have to put her in the "Lost and Found" first for atleast 30 days...then they will have no choice
but to throw her in the dumpster...hehee who's goona claim THAT!? ;)
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Oh wait......Our mush heads of H's would! bummer...LOL LOL
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What amazes me is the amount of people willing to be OW/OM. I can understand the big passion, the huge physical attraction but living a life with someone that is married? Or being a girlfriend/boyfriend for months or years on end of a married person? Makes no sense. It is such a tense and stressful situation. Wonder why so many play that part…Because I don’t think it’s an easy part to be played.
Well of course I also don’t get why, except for MLC craziness, would a married person to be involved in such situation.
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yeah don't get her started..Trust me on this one..LOL She'll have me mapquesting Wolcott NY and driving over there. ::) ::)
I'll dress like a pizza delivery girl and pretend I'm at the wrong house. Ok ? Syn? I'll find out the REAL sitch. and I'm sure it's all rose petals and a million candle all around.like on the Soap Operas. :o :o NOT!
Mamma bear, You rock! Thanks for the Pizza delivery girl idea!! Hahaha... OW and H are only about 8 miles away from me. I have the address.. heheheheee... :P
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It was great to read all of your responses, which happened while I slept on the other side of the world! :)
Truly Chilling alright! I had a physical response to this woman - felt so uneasy in my stomach and felt like I might throw up ......
No conscience at all, and oh so alone. She's 42 and yes, said she was desperate to have children and a relationship.
Said that she was just back with a 'man' who she broke up with who 'had to get another woman out of his system'. She said 'of course I knew it wouldn't last more than 5 weeks, and it didn't'.
Uggggh! Whole triangles of people who are dysfunctional. I guess we've been thrust into an underworld that we just wouldn't go ourselves.
Yes, I too understand the fantasy and temptation - been there, done that, but I too would NEVER have carried anything out.
I like humans and value relationships WAY too much, to put fantasy into reality.
Goodness only knows why they would go for this cr*p - sure wouldn't be my 'cup of tea'.
Have to feel sorry for the lot of them I suppose - after I've imagined thrusting two fingers, with great force, into the eye sockets!!!
I guess too, that's why, one way or the other, we're all going to end up having wonderful lives again. We know how to truly LOVE, and like attracts like.
Fingers crossed the MLCers exit their fantasy THRILLERS and join us before its too late!!!
Aisle 3 - damaged goods - Lost and found - reclaimed by mush head H's LOL!! Very funny ;D ;D ;D
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Well, I was an OW, kinda, once long ago... by kinds, I mean.... I had a "friendship" with a rockstar.... it was pretty genuine.... I knew there were groupies... but I felt "special"... cuz I wasn't DUMB or EASY, LOL!! Still, I knew (eventually) that he had a long term girlfriend.... of about 15 years. I respected her... and their relationship... I figured, he was cheating because he "deserved" it, due to his rockstar status... BUT..... I saw him on and off for YEARS..... mostly NON-SEXUAL.... we were "friends".. trust me... if I had been into it, it would have been sexual... but I actually thought we were "Friends!"... I knew of his wife, and knew I was NOT a threat (I see it differently now, by the way....). I accidentally ran into them in Las Vegas once.... I was introduced to her by his OTHER BANDMATES and I was respectful and complimentary.... HELLO!! She is his wife/fiance.... HELLO!!! I did not SEE what was F'd up in my thinking.... because of my OWN past..... BUT, I never ONCE imagined I would TAKE HIM from his fiance (eventually wife).... if he wanted me, then he would end it, and we would see where it led....
Since he started out with her, I NEVER imagined I would be placed above her.... it never crossed my mind! I was using him, though I loved him as a friend, and it was more of an E affair than physical (as if one time is less damaging than a hundred times... :() but, I honestly like my status for what it was.. a distraction that all rockstars are privy to, without QUESTION... and it seemed glamorous at the time, but when I met the wife, I acted as if she was the QUEEN OF THE UNIVERSE.... why?? BEcause she is a WOMAN!! And, in the end, regardless of my poor choices that were NOT black and white, I HONORED a WOMAN above a MAN!!
These OW are frikkin' SKANK HO'S........ and don't get me wrong.... I am in NO WAY justifying TODAY my part in infidelity.... just trying to shed some light on the damages...
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LG - there was still an element of respect (for the W) and self respect involved??
Unlike these sk**k Ho's who have none of either ........
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Hi everyone. I decided to come out of hiding, actually not hiding just being quiet and thinking. I always feel like I don't have much to offer in the way of advice because I feel rather new my self at this and there are many far wiser than I here. Anyway, I am here every single day to read and learn. I am drawn to this site for comfort and guidance.
I wanted to share that a couple of weeks ago I was in a local department store. In the women's section there was a woman on her cell phone talking loudly enough for all to hear. Not sure why those who use their cell phones in public feel it is necessary to discuss the details of their lives so all can hear?!
The woman sounded really angry. She was telling the person on the other end of the phone that her boyfriend told her he was staying home with his wife for the weekend. The woman in the store was so upset with this obviously married boyfriend. She was telling the person on the other end of the conversation that her boyfriend didn't love his wife, that he didn't sleep with the wife, that he had told her he was only home because he felt sorry for his wife and was doing chores for her. The woman said he had told her that he was mowing the lawn then going to bed on the couch. The woman told whoever was on the other end that she was buying a new dress and going out that night because she thought if her boyfriend knew she was out he would come out to meet up with her.
Quite a conversation to have in public. I was surprised at her very angry tone, wondering why anyone would be with anyone so angry. I got the feeling there was going to be hell to pay for the boyfriend for being with his wife. Shows us what crazy thinking is occurring in their heads. I really was sickened by the conversation. Kept thinking the man could be our husbands or partners.
The other thing that I found enlightening was that when I think of the ow who is with my partner I always picture her as the perfect woman, beautiful, intelligent, kind, funny, fun to be with. It drives me crazy. This woman was not very attractive, older and not happy, at least at that moment. Not at all someone I would picture someone leaving their partner or wife for.
On a lighter note I wanted to say that Mamma Bear made me laugh about the pizza delivery girl! Also since I admitted I have not been doing my share in being there to offer advice or just let others know I am here and care...I am officially stepping up to the plate and volunteering for duty as pizza girl! I have discovered I am only about an hour away from Wolcott Synicca. It is Wolcott right? It is pretty small so I shouldn't have too much trouble finding the Wolcott ow! Unless it is Wolcottsville which is even closer, about 20 minutes from me.
Well it is time I got off my behind and participated, so here I am reporting for duty!
Love and blessings to all.
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Hi Brokenhearted
Well done for breaking your silence :)
The first step is always the hardest - you'll be on a roll from now on !!!!
A very dear mutual friend (male) who has met my H's OW, said that she was the most negative person that he'd ever met (and he only met her for half an hour and she was launching into some awful tale about her sister!). He cannot even begin to work out what my H is doing!!
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Hi Kikki, nice to meet you. Thanks for the encouraging words that the ow may not be the goddess that I picture her to be. The one in the store sure wasn't. She was scary!
Blessings and hugs.
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Nice to meet you too brokenhearted :)
Read all you can about the OW.
I remember reading everything on this website, and thinking, no surely not. My H, even in this state wouldn't be capable of having a 'relationship' with someone that dysfunctional!
Be under no illusions - these OW/OM are 'mental' and our H's/W's being the polar opposites of their former selves, just love all of the drama.
I'm only beginning to realise this now. This does also follow the scrip to a 'T'
Scary stuff indeed ............
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What amazes me is the amount of people willing to be OW/OM. I can understand the big passion, the huge physical attraction but living a life with someone that is married? Or being a girlfriend/boyfriend for months or years on end of a married person? Makes no sense. It is such a tense and stressful situation. Wonder why so many play that part…Because I don’t think it’s an easy part to be played.
They may have very shallow needs. An OW might just be looking for a "sugar daddy", or just looking for sex. Some of them might consider stealing someone else's spouse an ego trip or a challenge; once they have them, the thrill of the chase is gone.
Also, you also have to consider that spouses who are willing to entertain the notion of cheating -- whether due to MLC or some unfulfilled needs -- aren't going to tell a potential bedmate that, really, their wife is swell and a great mom.
Finally, it has to do with how many people see marriage; even though most all of us stand up there at the altar and make a life-long commitment, the practical reality is that far too many marriages end before their time. I was advised by more than one friend to be careful what kinds of acquaintances I make with other women right now because, ironically enough, the fact that I'm unhappily married is a sign of stability or commitment (because if not, I would have gotten divorced by now)!
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I agree Still Standing. H even told me that OW was attracted to "what a great family man" he is. ??? Obviously stupid and ignorant (what "great family" people don't do is abandon said family). It also made me wonder about how H presented himself because she saw us together as a family once (at a party) and other than that she had very little to go on to make that assumption about him. Given that that year in which he met her was a year where I had a newborn and a 4 year old and H was more distant from me (I was afterall his family), the support that this incredible "family man" offered was negligible. Now they get the kids and they manage them as long as they don't have them for too long alone.
Of course, in my sitch OW came from a home with an absent father who I have been told she has almost no contact with, which makes me think that she actually doesnt have the faintest idea what a stable family environment looks like, and even less idea about the sorts of self-sacrifices a "good family man" would make, including not giving in to an attraction to a little desperate piece of fluff from the office and walking out on the wife and kids during the latter's early formative years....
In other words, the OP is often a damaged, somewhat desperate person looking to have unfulfilled personal needs met in a relationship with someone they thought represented stability, security. What they overlook (because they are damaged and desperate) is that stability and security would never walk away from a prior commitment and life amid a torrent of lies and betrayal. So by the very nature of accepting a man (or woman) who would do that, they are accepting a person who CANNOT be stable and secure. I almost pity them...
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In my sitch, the OW was in a similar position to me in that she had 2 D's similar ages to mine. She was divorced because her H had an affair and they didn't get through it, they got divorced. She wanted a fling, she didn't want commitment from my H, she wanted sex, and some excitment in her life. She got that for a while and she led him on, willingly it seems. He stayed here and continued with her, (told me it ended) I bet he was feeling like the most wanted guy in town! But when the s**t hit the fan and I told him he had to leave more than a year after BD, things went haywire, she must have got scared and their fling fizzled. She never really wanted him, she couldn't give up her child support anyway, and she'd have lost that if he'd lived with her, she just wanted a distraction and he obliged. She gave him some attention when I was busy looking after my D's and my dying Mum.
I could never understand how she could do something like that when she knows how it feels, it happened to her too. She's a real sado, but it doesn't excuse his part in it too. He was weak and blinded by a bit of attention, he thought it was love. I think he's beginning to see it for what it was now, a sordid adulterous affair, not all hearts and flowers. He's starting to reconnect I think, but a long way to go yet.
OW/OM have no morals, they stink, as HB says, the karma bus is coming!
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The OPis often a damaged somewhat desperate person looking to have unfulfilled needs met in a relationship with someone they thought represented security and stability.
S&D this sums up the OW in my case perfectly.
From his point of view she listens and validates everything he says and provides the 'youthfulness' he craves.
I don't think she is a bad person, just very needy and immature. She will have to live with what she has done though for the rest of her life, not something I would want.
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Hi TrustingMyHP,
H's OW has been married twice, divorced her 2nd H of 15 years to be with my H. H tells me that OW's first husband was an alcoholic and her second husband was "abusing her" and that's why she had to leave him. When I asked what type of abuse H told me that he hit her during a fight. This fight happened to occur at the time my H and OW began their PA. Coincidence?
It's all so sordid. People without a conscience are scary.
Scary indeed! Tell me is your H's OW going out with mine too? lol Unbelievable, sounds exactly the same scenario and my H fell for it hook, line and sinker... :-\ How so much drama can befall one woman is incredible...just to throw an added extra in my H's OW told him she'd had ovarian cancer too!....
Love and hugs
Foxy
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Fox,
same here...my H's OW is exactly the same.....sure their not the same OW?? lol
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I don't know a whole lot about H OW....but I guess he did mention some things to BIL & me when they were "just friends" and "its just a place to stay".....he still wont' admit to the she's the OW even though he's brought her to meet his kids & mother!
H OW is married but they must be separated (her H lives next door!)......she also has or did have some sort of female cancer too!!!.....and the house they are living in right now has been foreclosed on and there is a sheriff's sale on it this month!!
Sounds like a dream life to me....NOT!
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InLimbo, My best girlfriend told me that! Right from the beginning. She said "Oh that Bowser is just a place to stay." I said No he's in LOVE with her. (infatuated) She kept saying it was a place to run to get away from ME!
I hate this whole thing. It is maddening isn't it? I love the description you gave of where they live. I'm picturing that house Boo lived in, in To Kill A Mocking Bird. :o
Our lives.... ::) ::) I can't believe the words involved in our lives now thanks to MLCer. No good words. Words like Abandon. Sheriff, substance abuse, anger, confusion, child neglect, verbal and emotional abuse, financial ruin, cheating, lying, it goes on and one. Are there any good words for Hitting Rock Bottom? :'(
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I know for sure my H was in the right place at the wrong time and there OW was and the rest is History.....she is the complete opposite of EVERYTHING my H held dear....that's why I struggled to get it (sometimes still do) that he would pick a woman simply because she has a pulse! Sorry but it's true.....he even had the nerve to tell me he found her "attractive" ummm I thought and that makes me?????
So a 25 year old leggy blonde I can "see" why but a 49 year old twice married woman with teenagers no....I don't get it...apart from the affair down...... that I get.....
love and hugs
Fox xxxx
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hi Foxy,
25 year old leggy blonde I can "see" why but a 49 year old twice married woman with teenagers
You answered your own question:
was in the right place at the wrong time and there OW was and the rest is History
I remember saying to H that it was a remarkable coincidence that of all the women in the whole wide enormous world, the "perfect soul-mate" just happened to start working at the desk behind him in his office. What luck!! ???
They are in MLC, a large inflatable doll would have made a great "soulmate" if no one else had presented themselves at the right time. The who is almost entirely irrelevent - they made a beeline for the only woman making herself available.
Honestly (and I know that some may judge me for this) but I had a brief fling with an old friend at the start of the summer (8 months after H moved in with OW) it was fun and that was al,l but the point it drove home to me most was that friendship and good sex does not a "soulmate" make. Unless you are in MLC.
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I hasten to add that the old friend of the fling was 100% unattached, single. I would not touch a married man with a barge pole. I wouldn't have before being on the receiving end and I would absolutely NEVER do that now.
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When my h met o/w she was 26yrs old he 39 now shes 29 and hes 42 and guess what he still doesn’t take her out in our town.....why after all this time if hes met his soul-mate does he hide her away..... i thought when your with the woman of your dreams you cant wait to show her off......why does o/w allow this shes become a prisoner to h...hes does what he wants and so do i............do these o/w think so little of themselves that they wont/cant demand to be treated properly.........why do they allow such treatment are they that desperate to keep married boyfriend happy :o :o :o :o :o ........Anyway the karma bus is just about to hit o/w tomorrow......she as to appear under caution to the benefit fraud squad ;D ;D ;D and she tried to blame me for telling the authorities...however my h wouldnt allow her to he defended me saying my wife wouldn’t do that....they had a big stinking argument over it..........by the sounds of it they shot themselves in the foot by registering baby in my h's name and it was investigated :o :o :o every action as a consequence and she will face these tomorrow.........she said to h they might want to interview him.........he said why im not committing fraud you are and i wont talk to them ........oh boy i was laughing my socks off inside when he told me this........so apart from stealing my h shes also stealing from the government......goes to show what type of woman she is.........she will reap what she sowed......she tried to destroy me with her lies and antics in the beginning well guess what biatch....your own antics will destroy you.......whilst i sit back with the popcorn and watch the best drama unfold...her mother doesn’t know my h is married and they were committing adultery so when the baby was born she proudly announced it in our local paper...........wonder if she will be as proud when o/w appears in newspaper for fraud.........now thats KARMA ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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They are in MLC, a large inflatable doll would have made a great "soulmate" if no one else had presented themselves at the right time. The who is almost entirely irrelevent - they made a beeline for the only woman making herself available.
Ha - the visual picture is brilliant! Springs to mind a scene from the movie 'Lars and the real girl' - Tragic movie about a dysfunctional, never married guy who's desperate for a relationship, and buys himself an inflatable doll. He's convinced she's real - the story is tragi/comedy and it's excruciating watching everyone else's reactions.
I reckon our MLCers must be the same. The 'happy couple' (OW may as well be an inflatable doll) must receive a lot of the same pitying glances. And of course, neither of them notice their effect on others around them!!!!
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I met/ know two OW, two of my friends. Friend #1 was just recently an OW. (Right before my BD) Friend #2 was one more than 10 years ago. I now feel awful that I knew they were doing it and didn't push harder for them to stop. Though I do remember telling them that I didn’t think it was right, and that they should really think about the other family, but I would not stop being friends with them. And now that they know my situation and I hate the OW (and not my H) they kind of get it. Though one of them tells me I should not blame the OW because my H is the one that is married and not the OW. The funny thing is they are my biggest supporters, and have been there for me since the beginning, through all the tears, anger and confusion. Friend #1 tells me to dump him... Friend #2 tells me to do what I think is right for me, but also thinks I should move on.
Friend #1 story...
She has been married twice and divorced twice. Last year she started dating a married man from her work. The guy, 55 years old told her that his marriage was over, but he still lives with wife, they do not have sex or sleep in the same room. They are doing it for financial reason. And when that was all figured out, he would get an apartment. Hmmm, Sound familiar? She actually believed him. Therefore did not think she was doing anything wrong. I have been telling her all about MLC, but she still believed his story.It ended when she found out he had another OW. She was really surprised because she thought she was special to him. And he was going to move out for her. She still believes his story, and is just dating around. :o
Friend #2 story… Twists and turns in this one.
She was married for about 20 years. The marriage was not a good one. She was first the cheater in the marriage. She was 40 at the time. She stopped when the guy got arrested. Yikes, talk about “Affair down”. Her H found out about the affair later, forgave her and they stayed together until he then cheated. They got divorced.
She became OW with a guy (45 years old) she met at a dinner party. He claimed that he was in a bad marriage, but since he had two teenagers he didn’t want to leave them. So he was still at home, claiming he was not having sex or sleeping in the same room with wife. Just like friend #1. Crazy! Friend #2 also believed his story. They were just friends at first. Then it got romantic (My H told me the same thing about his OW) Anyway, The wife eventually kicked the H out. And my friend and the guy got together. It was rocky for a while because the wife was mean, and caused a lot of trouble for my friend. She was very vindictive. They eventually got divorced!
My friend married the guy about 2 years later. Those first years were very rocky, Once again because the ExWife was really mean, and continued to cause problems. Things finally settled and they were able to have a normal marriage. But then A few years later, the Wife wanted to get back together with her Ex Husband, and she did NOT care that he was married now. She begged him to come back, and was sorry for all the mean things she did. And she was still in love with him, and always has been. She wanted her family back together. He didn’t want anything to do with her. My Friend just recently told me that part of the story. I was really surprised.
Doesn't it sound like all three of them were in some kind of crisis?
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StillStanding, I think my husband OW1 was after the stability a long term committed person can offer. Of course, as StandandDeliver said it “a great family man" does not live not get involved with OW. I wonder how she could not see it. The “great family man” left to move in with a single party boy. He shared a flat with this fellow for a while. Afterwards, H moved in a communal flat full of people in their late 20’s, all into partying as well. After moving out husband was always going to clubs and bars. So much for the “great family man” life. LOL OW2, for all I know, comes straight out of that crowd of party goers he hangs around with. Both OW have college degrees so RCR is right, pound scum includes people with master degrees or PhD’s.
I have no idea what H told OW1 or OW2. OW1 knew us from our wide cultural circle. Everybody knew we had been together for 20 years and that we get along fine. Others even had us as a role model. Maybe he told her he was unhappy…Of course he was, he was depressed. To OW2 he could have said whatever he wanted. I had long moved back home and he had long dived into that crazy partying circuit.
StandandDeliver, Yes, they are getting some one who is not stable or secure. It’s mad. Your image of the large inflatable doll made me laugh. I will not judge you for your brief fling with an old friend. I’ve had one myself. My friend is divorced and unattached, the fling was also fun. And no, friendship and good sex do not make a “soulmate”. But, in MLC…anything goes. However, and I don’t know if this happens to anyone else, I barely feel a connection towards my H these days. I’ve moved back home over 4 years ago, I haven’t seen my H for more than 3 years, we’ve had talked, maybe 10 times (always e-mail except twice by phone). I’ve meet new people; my life no longer resembles the one we had. So, I’m not sure I could even reconnect with him…
Foxberry, 20 or 25 years old I can get. Well, maybe not on a 36 about to be 37 years old man… but… Anyway, I think that if they got the classic portrait of MLC, a 20 years old blonde bimbo and the red Ferrari it wouldn’t be so bad. They would tire of the blonde pretty quick and the red Ferrari could be sold. ;D
Mama Bear, the only good words I can think of for Hitting Rock Botton are The Only Way is Up! One can not go bellow Rock Botton. Or can one?... ???
With Gods Help! My H is the opposite of your. He makes a point of going around town, the country, even the world both with OW1 and OW2. Is reasoning is, we are separated we no longer have anything in common. It has been like this since he left. Since he no longer lived home he could do as he pleased.
Ibelieve, Your friends stories just show that, anyone can became an OW/OM or a cheating spouse . It has a lot to do with how we are feeling at a certain moment in ours lives. Yes, in your friend #2 story it does look like the 3 of them we’re in some sort of a crisis. Makes sense your friends, even if they were/are OW stand by you. They are your friends. Things with relationships and friendships are never easy or black and white.
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My friend married the guy about 2 years later. Those first years were very rocky, Once again because the Ex Wife was really mean, and continued to cause problems. Things finally settled and they were able to have a normal marriage. But then A few years later, the Wife wanted to get back together with her Ex Husband, and she did NOT care that he was married now. She begged him to come back, and was sorry for all the mean things she did. And she was still in love with him, and always has been. She wanted her family back together. He didn't want anything to do with her. My Friend just recently told me that part of the story. I was really surprised.
Doesn't it sound like all three of them were in some kind of crisis?
I am Quoting myself.. :)
In this story the Wife did not get her Husband back, and the OW (my friend) has been married to him for about 8 years. But don't be discouraged, It has everything to do with how Ex Wife reacted to the situation. The ExWife was NOT a stander at all, and was really mean to them for a long time. Proof of what Everyone says here... Leave our MLCers alone to do what they need to do, don't cause problems, and especially don't talk about, or bother the OW.
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When I was in my late 20's, my boss hit MLC. He had a beautiful wife and four lovely children. I knew they used to be close (even though I was newish to that work environment, others who had been there longer confirmed that to be the case).
The way he pursued me and was so obviously obsessed with me, was very public and was a little scary. Everyone else in that company knew that he was besotted.
He was a large man (not overweight, but tall and strong), and he would often come into my office and shut the door. Sit down and start pouring out his 'woe is me, I'm soooooo unhappy' stories. I'd immediately get up and busy myself elsewhere ...... he didn't get the message
It made no sense to me, and I knew he wasn't currently in his right mind. I had no interest in having a relationship with this man, despite him making it obvious that I was his target.
He wouldn't let up with his behaviour, and I eventually left that job.
I heard that within a matter of days, he'd moved his sights to another woman, the same age as myself (15 years younger than he was), and she took the bait. They eventually had a couple of children together, but I heard that the relationship didn't last for too long.
I have no idea what happened after that, as I have moved out of the area. I often think of his lovely wife these days. I remember saying to her that he was as miserable as sin, at the time, and not to believe his 'I'm so happy' stories.
I guess she didn't have the benefit of all of this information.
Whoever would have thought that I'd ever have to face the same rubbish .......... I do understand the force of the obsession with the OW as I have been on the receiving end of it - weird, weird, weird :o :o :o :o :o You really would have to be in a bad place yourself to find any of it appealing ....
Anyone else had this experience?
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I asked how she felt about it, and she said it was a very easy thing to slip into, and as she has no respect whatsoever for relationships, she didn't feel any remorse for being involved with a married man with kids.
I think this is a very key sentence. People who become involved with married people are not thinking abouut anything, but their own personal needs. They don't think beyond the moment. The MLC'er is a vulnerable target for these individuals....whether they are seeking or being sought out. They are like teenagers whose momentary lapse of jugdment sends them in a downward spiral.
Thanks Still, I somehow missed your response before. Have been thinking about this and mulling it over.
Vulnerable targets and downward spiral - that's it in a nutshell
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Very interesting indeed.
I know four women who had affairs.
#'s one and two were very sad women, never married, felt hopeless and were lonely and disollusioned. Both ended it, felt remorse and vowed it would never happen again. One is married now, the other is not. I think both of these women went off the rails at bad times in their life.
# three had many affairs with married men. She was not married and never has been. She, to this day, has no remorse and sees it as her "right". What she bases that on, I have no idea other than the fact that she is bitter, having very few boyfriends in her youth. She is a shark looking for prey.
#4 is married, and affaired with a married man. She is in the process of divorce now. I believe she is in an MLC. She says she has remorse towards the spouse of her lover but I don't buy it. She has NO remorse regarding her own husband. She feels justified in that she believes he was not a good husband though I know he was faithful.
So I guess from the ones I've known, half felt badly....half do not. Strange.
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That's just sad when you think of how many people we know who have done something like this.
I am proud to say I have never cheated, or even thought about cheating in my 21 year marriage. I love my H more than anything.
I can't even imagine it.
I do know another friend who has cheated several times on her H. One time I remember she was having an affair with a man that lived across the street from her. 20 years older than her. He was married too. She told me that she was not happy and he was not happy in their marriages and that she deserved to be happy. This friend is also the one who never wanted to get married in the first place. But she got pregnant and her family convinced her to do the right thing. It's been 15 years; I think she is still married. I have not talked to her in several years.
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She told me that she was not happy and he was not happy in their marriages and that she deserved to be happy.
This does seem to be a recurring theme - Looking externally for something they need to work on internally .........
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I know, I really hate when people have that attitude... "I deserve it, so I am going to get it!"
We all deserve money, but we don't go out and rob banks saying... "Well, I deserve to have money, so I will have it"
Sorry, I guess I am getting mad thinking about all my friends who have cheated or who have been the OW. I have never had to
think about all of them at the same time.
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Good point about the money. It does seem to be a very modern day 'follow your bliss' bandaid attitude. Riles me too.
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Interesting! I grew up with the myth that HAPPY PEOPLE do not stray! It's true too, seeing as our MLCer's were NOT HAPPY PEOPLE... obviously. The odd part about it though, for the majority of their lives with us, THEY WERE HAPPY. We were not ALWAYS happy, yet we did not stray. Of course, we have not been in an MLC.
It's all so confusing, eh!!!!
hugs Stayed
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Stayed - I had to read that a couple of times to get it ;D
It sure is confusing - I'm so glad I'm not in MLC
hugs
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Great thread,
Funny how my H told me in April when we were "trying" :P that OW had found a photograph of me and said to H "what are you doing with me when your wife is so pretty?" My H didn't actually tell me what his reply to the Tart was, but I don't think I would ever say something like that! and also I don't get why my H would TELL me a thing like that? MLC??
Foxy xxx
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Fox - ? for drama?
I'm really beginning to understand how important this seems to be for the MLCer
My H is desperately trying to prod me so I will react. I'm not buying into it at all and he's getting more and more desperate.........
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Many people ... especially those in MLC, but others too, ... confuse pleasure with happiness. They think that by chasing money, status, or sex they will get happiness, but what they get is just a quick fix shot of pleasure, and it leaves them afterwards still in their state of unhappiness. It is like a drug, they think that they need more then to make them happy. I think this is the mentality that OWs have too, taking someone else's man is a quick high, a status symbol, an ego boost. They need to break the addiction, and see that true happiness has nothing to do with the quick-fix pleasure.
Addicts can't be cured until they want to be. They must make the decision to break the addiction. Thats my 2p worth!
Link to next thread "The affair/OM/OW III"
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=423.0