Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Anjae on November 08, 2016, 11:24:54 AM
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Starting a new thread, the second one reached 150 posts.
Link and blog post:
Reconciliation: If You Stand, Will Your MLCer Return?
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/standing-and-divorce/reconciliation_will-your-mlcer-return/ (http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/standing-and-divorce/reconciliation_will-your-mlcer-return/)
October 27, 2016
A guarantee does not exist for reconciliation and right now, more situations end in divorce than in reconciliation. There are still reconciliation stories and the forum is filled with success stories because reconciliation and being successful are not mutually exclusive. For your hope, my husband Chuck came home and we have since adopted 3 children and are foster parents to an infant as well. Reconciliation is not impossible, but even if you Stand perfectly, your MLCer may not choose to reconcile with you—that will not be your fault! I am not trying to destroy your hope in saying that; what I am trying to do is give you a dose of reality as it is now. Go into this with your eyes wide open.
In the beginning, Stand as a Grace Period to let yourself heal before making a decision. After a Grace Period, make your own choice about what to do, Stand for your marriage and choose your terms for a possible reconciliation knowing and accepting reality or choose to stop Standing; the choice is yours!
Are there things you can do to improve your chances of reconciling? What might or might not improve the odds toward reconciliation?
Time
There are some who have this idea that if you just stay the course your MLCer will eventually come out of MLC and return.
Reconciliation is not a stage of MLC; it’s not the main thing that happens when an MLCer wakes up and realizes what they have done.
The passage of time does not carry some magical meaning or formula. Your MLCer will not simply come out of their crisis someday and want to come home.
Consider the reconciliations you know about, how much time was there from Bomb Drop to Reconciliation? Most reconciliations happen in the early years. That is not to say that they do not happen later, but the odds go down with time.
Waiting Patiently
Your MLCer is not more likely to return home simply because you wait and wait and wait for years and years—or even if you don’t spend that time waiting. Though patience is important, waiting is not a method that will get you to your Big Goal. Victims and stuck people wait. Life will pass you by while you wait. Standing is not still; Being is still; Standing is active and about living. Unfortunately, people do Stand by waiting rather than by continuing to live a full and joyous life—and yes, I do understand and accept that recovery to an active and joyous life takes time, but it is not supposed to take forever.
Healing and Personal Empowerment
Marriages do not reconcile—at least not to successful stability—with a betrayed spouse who has not healed and become stronger. Marriage is not about two people completing each other! A secure marriage is built on two complete individuals coming together to share each other’s lives; being whole is the job of the individual. Each person will heal on their own timeline and recovery is unique to each individual, but some people use that as their excuse for remaining stuck and failing or refusing to heal. Pull yourself together, stand up and take responsibility for your recovery. The faster you become strong, the faster you become an attractive force.
Healing improves the odds of reconciliation.
Healing leads to positive change.
I want to be sensitive to your individual path to healing. This is a place in need of a Tough-Tender balance because too Tender may lead to coddling and enabling an LBS to remain in the early stages where you become stuck. Too Tough and I could alienate an LBS who may then refuse further guidance or I could push them too fast for their present abilities which can damage self-esteem.
Do the odds for reconciliation increase with an LBS who detaches and heals faster? MLC has a timeline of its own, but will an LBS who detaches and heals quickly, accepting their own Mirror-Work, inspire an MLCer to do the same? Don’t get me wrong, healing is important for you; the benefits toward reconciliation are secondary, but maybe that is what will motivate some of you to detach and heal. If what I said above is true and the odds of marital reconciliation go down with time, it would seem prudent to take your personal healing and health seriously now.
Please understand, healing will not guarantee reconciliation.
You can do everything perfectly and your spouse may still not want to return to your marriage, but it does improve the odds because healing is a requirement for a healthy and stable reconciliation. It’s also the thing you need to do if you choose not to Stand–so Standing or not what you need to being doing is the same. This MLC marriage crisis thing is not your fault and neither is resolving it: it is not within your control. But your healing, that is within your control! Healing is empowering; there is no downside.
Education
Identify the problem. This can take a while. In the moments, days, weeks and maybe even months after Bomb Drop you may have searched for a purpose or reason. What has happened to my loving partner? Did we have problems that were this serious in our marriage? What is going on? Why is he/she doing this feeling this way? Who is that madman in my husband’s/wife’s body? These are the questions you ask over and over as you try to understand and make sense of this shock. They grip you and send you off on tangents as you find something that fits pieces, without quite fitting everything.
Is he a narcissist?
Is this an exit affair?
Is she right, did we have a bad marriage?
Now that you have identified the problem—midlife crisis— you finally have something to learn about that may help your situation move forward by educating yourself just enough to answer your basic questions: what’s happening, what does it mean, why is this happening, what can I do…?
Then stop! Or redirect more energy toward your personal education or learning and your own Mirror-Work rather than midlife crisis, because focusing on the latter could keep you attached to the situation and your MLCer and prevent you from progressing forward in a healthy and positive manner.
So which is it, does education improve the odds of reconciliation, have no effect or decrease the odds?
It depends on where you focus your learning. Education can be helpful because it can lead to understanding which can enable empathy. An MLCer typically does some terrible things that will hurt you deeply. Understanding the psychology behind this can help you to continue to apply the Unconditionals. Education is also beneficial in that having some answers allows you to stop obsessing over not knowing and redirect focus back onto yourself. But it can work against reconciliation if you fail to focus more of your energy toward your Self and instead keep your energy focused on midlife crisis and your MLCer.
Mirror-Work
This is related to and part of healing. You need to heal your broken heart from the effects of Bomb Drop and Monster. Mirror-Work goes deeper; it is a personal journey exploring you. Focus your energy on you. Your spouse is not and was not your everything and if you feel as though they were your reason for living, please speak with a mental health professional and make yourself a priority.
Mirror-Work honors you by giving you the time to be you and learn what that means—who are you? It takes many forms and has many facets. Healing and detachment are pieces of Mirror-Work, but so are meditating, journaling, dancing, singing, hiking… An important aspect of Mirror-Work is to discover the creator in you. Do this by exploring and playing with different activities. It might seem lavish to spend this time not only on yourself but also doing activities that may seem frivolous because they are fun and may not fit into what you consider functional.
Transitions are about change. Your spouse’s midlife crisis is a transition that has forced you into a transition as well. Mirror-Work is how you learn who you are becoming and who you want to become through this journey. No, it will not guarantee reconciliation, but it will empower you and enable all the Self positives like worth, confidence, esteem, control… and a person with high Self-levels has increased odds for reconciling.
Boundaries
We teach people how to treat us; the boundaries we set let people know what is acceptable to us and what is not. Without boundaries, you open yourself up to abuse—whether intentional or unintentional—because people will take advantage of you.
Boundaries are much more than rules for how to treat a person. They help us to separate who we are from others, giving us personal control over our identity. They enable us to establish limits in relationships, protecting our self-image and thus preserving our integrity. A person without boundaries looks externally to define their value in this world because without boundaries they are unable to tell where others end and they begin; such a person defines themselves as someone’s parent, husband, child, sibling, employee and their persona revolves around meeting that definition.
A person with boundaries is capable of saying no. There is nothing wrong with trying to please others until you do it at your own expense. Put the oxygen mask on yourself first–put your needs first, but Self-First is not only for emergencies. Self-Care is self-preservation and self-maintenance and keeps you energized for giving care to others without feeling exhausted and eventually resentment.
There are no guarantees that a person with strong and loving boundaries will reconcile their marriage, but someone without strong and loving boundaries is not yet a whole and healthy person and thus not able to do the work needed to build a healthy relationship with someone else. Get your relationship with you in alignment first. Having strong and loving boundaries improves the odds of reconciliation.
Agapé and Love Them Home
I love these. The problem is in the application or what you consider these to be. Loving them Home, in theory, is something that improves the odds of reconciliation Unfortunately some people’s idea is more about dismissing a person’s sins with excuses. The same confusion exists regarding forgiveness. Agapé and forgiveness are both unconditional, but that does not mean you should apply them in the absence of rules, boundaries, consequences or accountability. The problem is not with loving them home, it is with the idea that unconditional love means you should not hold your MLCer responsible due to the confused and unstable state of MLC (during which they may be easy prey for an alienator) or they are too fragile to handle the consequences that come with being held accountable. Stop making excuses for your spouse! Or stop making the excuses excusable.
Go back to what I said above: we treat people how to treat us. Failing or refusing to set or maintain boundaries enables a person to avoid Mirror-Work and denies them the opportunity to make amends and repair the damage they have caused. Instead, they may feel entitled and believe there is no damage.
Ironically it is not uncommon for those applying agapé in this manner to also be more judgmental; sometimes vacillating between seeming forgiveness without consequences and resentment, anger and judgment.
Loving them and Standing are not about preserving a home and waiting for them with open arms. Move forward and rebuild your life, becoming an attractive force that may interest and inspire your MLCer to do their own Mirror-Work to catch up. If they do not—someday—become motivated to catch-up, it is not because you failed. If they do become motivated to catch-up and yet are still not interested in reconciling, you still have not failed; they still get to choose.
Loving them home from a distance, where you do not deny them accountability for their actions and are not intruding, controlling or smothering can certainly improve the odds of reconciling.
Reconciliation is Not Guaranteed
You probably already knew that there was not a guarantee of reconciliation, but some of you may not have realized or accepted that the odds are at this time stacked against you. I’d love for us to change that, but let’s face it, that goal goes against society. Those who are the most susceptible to the idea of a guarantee tend to be those who base their Stand on a religious platform. Ask and ye shall receive is not an unlimited promise without conditions. I cannot tell you why God works as he does or how, but I can tell you that no amount of praying or hardship or perfect behavior will give you a guarantee of reconciliation on earth—Heaven is another matter and I have not been granted that level of knowledge or understanding.
previous thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8369.0
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I agree that standing is for us and hopefully the restoration of our marriage if that is what we decide.
We need to remember the MLCer wants what he can't have and just leave them to their crisis. There would possibly be more reconciliations if the LBS truly let the MLCer go emotionally and realized this had nothing to do with them.
The MLCer does get to choose what he/she wants in the end but so does the LBS. Let's face t, the LBS is a much better person than the MLCer as they have done mirror work and love themselves whereas the MLCer still believes they are a bad person at the rock bottom crisis stage.
It's not surprising the LBS doesn't want a broken person, they are strong and independent. It's the history that attracts the LBS, not the MLCer personally. What strong woman/man wants a new relationship with a broken, needy person?
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It's not surprising the LBS doesn't want a broken person, they are strong and independent. It's the history that attracts the LBS, not the MLCer personally. What strong woman/man wants a new relationship with a broken, needy person?
Man SF, did you nail this. This is EXACTLY how my situation went. It was our HISTORY that kept me connected to my h. If we had not had such a good, long, strong history, I doubt I could have even considered taking on such a broken man.
Without a doubt, marriage's that span almost 3 decades, are very hard to walk away from. History truly carries a lot of weight, the longer a couple are together.
Great observation Savoir Faire. I am not sure my h and I could have succeeded if we had not had 3 decades of strong history. Reconciliation is hard when both parties want to reconcile, when one is broken and has done none of the mirror work, doesn't even think they need to, then the challenge becomes extraordinarily frustrating.
Without a doubt, history is a huge factor in this situation.
Hugs Stayed
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For me, the memories are the thing that make me sad to lose my R with xh. He was always a difficult person to live with, and admittedly, I really only stayed in the M because I did not believe in divorce and as a devout Catholic, I would have stayed in the M just as I'd vowed. But, for at least the last 6 to 8 years of our M, I kept hoping and praying H would change for the better, respect and support me more, and just love me. Dad. I spent about half our M wishing and waiting for him to see me as worthy, only to be betrayed in the worst of ways.
Our history was average at best overall. Xh was a good provider financially and one of the hardest workers I know, but in the end he was a lousy H. For that reason, history makes no difference in making me ever want a reconciliation with him.
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It is so refreshing to read your honest comments about your marriage, tocslave. I wish you a wonderful second half of your life, with joy and companionship, based on love, respect and mutual support.
Hugs Stayed
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I had someone ask me once. "What do you see in him?" And the only thing I could come up with for an answer was "History"
But, for at least the last 6 to 8 years of our M, I kept hoping and praying H would change for the better, respect and support me more, and just love me
I agree with this toslave..and the fact he was a difficult person to live with. He brought out the worst in me.
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Yes, history is a part of it; I'd never deny that. An important part. And the future as well -- splitting the family affects everyone's future.
But in the end my stand for my marriage is also because of who he was, who I know he can be. He was never horrible, indeed, he was sweet and kind.
Perfect? No, not at all. He had his insecurities, I thought that was what made him human.
A counsellor asked me a long time ago if I missed the man or the relationship -- he was saying that a relationship could easily be replaced. I don't quite agree with that, but that's besides the point.
For me, in the end, it is about the man, I married him, not just "a husband".
And that doesn't mean I sit on the doormat, saying "stamp on me...:
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I think that's where personal philosophy of mlc comes into this. My ex was a good man in my estimation prior to mlc. However he was broken as well. It turns out that didnt make him human. It made him a candidate for a mlc. Just as mine made me a candidate for being a fixer.
I accept the fact that part of what attracted me to him was that his broken parts and my broken parts meshed.
I have no idea what sort of man he could be in the future. No crystal ball or expectations of him being a man I would want again. I know I am no longer the same broken woman. He played no part in my healing. Therefore he doesn't know me and I certainly don't know him. Therefore, no assurance that without the broken parts meshing, we would be a solid couple with a viable future. Its a huge IF as to them returning, based on another huge IF they finish the journey. Then another huge IF as to attraction still being there for both parties. In fact I doubt with the things I've seen personally in the end stages that we would mesh or could ever be a viable couple.
You see, for me, mlc is not a mental or physical disease. It is an identity crisis. Its conflict avoidant personality traits, foo issues, and other things that lead to depression and the mlc journey so the person could heal and grow up. Not a mysterious disease with a cure to be found some day.
To me, it is expectations and pressure to think we have an idea what these people could be some day. They have to figure it out on their own. Other peoples expectations and them having to live up to those is part of what caused this crisis. They need to define for themselves who they are without the expectations of another factored in.
To each his own as to personal philosophy of mlc.
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It is an identity crisis. Its conflict avoidant personality traits, foo issues, and other things that lead to depression and the mlc journey so the person could heal and grow up.
I would agree with this. I used to think that my H and I had the same interests, but it turns out that he was just mirroring my likes in order to fit in. He is a chameleon changing his skin to suit whomever he was with at the time. Personally, I don't think his Mom EVER allowed him to evolve as a unique individual. He was held to her idea of what he should think and how he should act. Anything else was punished.
I think at mid life he panicked and saw his life winding down and none of his dreams coming to fruition so he ran. He ran and tried to medicate with younger people, partying, another woman, different clothes and contact lenses.
Now he is in a depressive state, but also beginning to come to terms with reality. I'm waiting for him to climb back out of his pit and emerge as the man I know he can be.
One huge thing he said the other day as we were discussing some issues is "Maybe I'm just going to be a grumpy old man from now on." I asked him if he intended to grow old with me and he said "I AM old." For him to say something like that was really shocking as he would NEVER admit that perhaps he's not 20 anymore! ;)
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One huge thing he said the other day as we were discussing some issues is "Maybe I'm just going to be a grumpy old man from now on." I asked him if he intended to grow old with me and he said "I AM old." For him to say something like that was really shocking as he would NEVER admit that perhaps he's not 20 anymore! ;)
That's very interesting, SF. I thought your H sounded just like mine right up until I read this and that's where they differ. When I wished my H a happy bday via text this year (13 months after BD), he replied just one word: "Old."
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wow, good comments LP. I am too depressed to comment further. Too disgusted actually.
hugs Stayed
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When my xh left, the only thing certain to me of his behavior was that he clearly had no idea who he was or really where he fit in. He cried and fled immediately to our basement after coming to me 6 weeks after BD and proclaiming with such drama that he needed a divorce. In my 18 years with him, I'd never seen him in such emotional turmoil....and it was all downhill from there.
He continued to live at home for another 3 weeks, while still vehemently denying his OW (boss from work) and still not muttering a word to me when in his presence. It was so weird and uncomfortable....mostly because I knew what I knew from being on here and reading others stories. He was following script very well....such a good actor, had I not known any better.
What's become of him and us seems surreal and unfathomable. I knew he had some issues, but never would have imagined the extent and scope until this year. 2016 will go down for me as the year of discovery....at least I spent the year doing my own mirror work and re-discovering who TOC really is. Still have to shake my head at how lost I've been the last few years. It's no wonder xh went AWOL.
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Thinking we know who someone can be is not allowing them to be who the ARE.
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Thinking we know who someone can be is not allowing them to be who the ARE.
SNAP. This is a biggie. It means letting go of not just control but of expectation, of dreams, of potential. That's a huge identity wipe - for US. We walk through life secure in what we believe and what we perceive. BD is the wake up call, but when we do the mirror work, there's a next layer to it where we actually, willingly, start to release. For some reason, for me anyway, I found that a big part of this was tied to a feeling that by accepting my xH for who he is I was somehow validating what he did to me. That's not the case. More mirror work ensued. ;)
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History is an atraction factor, at least for a while. After a certain point (years), especially for those of us without contact with our MLCer and who have no children, I don't know how much it will matter.
Granted, Mr J is the only person with whom I had a relationship/marriage with that was very long. But still... I have no idea what I would do with a broken man.
On a professional level, Mr J would be an asset, on a personal one, somehow, I think he may just hinder my peace and growth. Or it may just be that I am not interested in dealing with the turbulence a broken MLC brings.
Do I miss the man or the relationship? I miss the relationship with Mr J. It is not that easy to replace the type of relationship we've had. So far, I did not found anyone who would be close.
But, do I currently know Mr J? No. Does he currently knows me? No. Would we still match and have the same type of relationship we've had before? I have no idea.
To me, MLC is not an identity crisis. It comes from excessive stress and depression. Those combined lead to what seems to be an identity crisis.
Of course I may be totally wrong. Still, in the end, I am not sure if it makes much of a difference if MLC is, or is not, and identity crisis. The big difference I can see is that for those of us who see it has coming from stress and depression there may be a cure, for those who see it as an identity crisis, most likely there may not.
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LP, every single word you wrote is exactly how I feel. Thank you for articulating it so beautifully.
(Happy Birthday and Semper Fi a day early from one former Wife to another)
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Hoo-Rah! Semper Fi!
Thank you, quite a sisterhood being married to a military man, isn't it! Good experiences and the not so good that helped shape the women we are today.
Lp
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I'm a military wife too... but I never in my life said Semper Fi. I loved that life. 25 years, how long were you military wives? How come I never knew you were military wives. MMmmmmmmmmmmm where have I been?
Hugs Stayed
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Semper Fi! And happy birthday! I celebrated 17 out 21 years of them with the EX. I don't miss him, but I miss my "military" family.
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I went back and re-read what you ever wrote, LP.
I found this quite interesting:
Therefore, no assurance that without the broken parts meshing, we would be a solid couple with a viable future.
Sometimes I wonder if a little (or a lot) of brokeness is what makes some couples viable. And if so, is it so bad to have some brokeness present?
Somehow, from my personal experience, healed, or more healed people, have a hard time find a mate. At least, I have. It was much, much easier when I was not healed. Or was less developed (when I was younger). Now it is like I am on a level and most people are in another.
And I am probably being too choosy and wanting a certain level that may not be available.
Happy birthday, LP.
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I have no idea what Semper Fi means but happy birthday, LP. :)
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It is short for the latin expression Semper fidelis, "always faithful", usually used as "always loyal". It is the US Marines moto. Yes, I know, I have watched too many American movies and tv shows. ::)
Medusa and LP's husbands were (are?) marines.
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It is short for the latin expression Semper fidelis, "always faithful", usually used as "always loyal". It is the US Marines moto. Yes, I know, I have watched too many American movies and tv shows. ::)
Medusa and LP's husbands were (are?) marines.
Nailed the translation, Anjae. :)
Me, LP, and My3 were all Marine Corps wives. For me it was 24 years and a lot of wonderful memories. Tomorrow is the birthday of the founding of the Corps which happened at the Tun Tavern (appropriately) in 1775.
When STBX and I did mediation, it was (a) in the same building where he hooked up without OW (their work was there) and as luck had it, the room had Corps-related names. His was the Semper Fidelis room. I laughed out loud when I saw that.
Hoo-Rah! Semper Fi!
Thank you, quite a sisterhood being married to a military man, isn't it! Good experiences and the not so good that helped shape the women we are today.
Lp
Love the bark, LP (only those who know Marines know what Hoo-Rah actually sounds like when Marines do it!), and you are absolutely right: out career as "Dependents" (always have hated that term!) definitely shapes the women we are now, right down to the book "Roses and Thorns" they gave at TBS. Did you get that one, LP (My3, not trying to be exclusionary: the book was about how to be a good officer's wife).
Happy Birthday My3!
End of hijack.
Anjae, my old IC once said to me that although STBX and I did love each other, our individual brokenness complemented each other. We filled each other's needs.
I believe we will always be broken in one way or another. Is there really an "unbroken" person out there? We seem to find someone whose level of brokenness matches our own.
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Anjae, you say that perhaps you want a level that isn't possible, because we have done so much mirror work, etc.... it's possible that we also over-analyse, that we are hyper-sensitive to may things.
I had some family friends over on Sunday, a core group of people who H and I counted as our closest friends. They are solid couples, each has had their difficulties but nothing on this level. They have mostly come through the child-rearing, work-ambition-thing, material-good-accumulating phases of life, each a bit differently, but they have all grown up. Each as couples, they have balanced out each others needs, and I well know that in some cases the needs of each half have been very opposite.
Would H be able to slot back into that group? While he is the way he is it might be easy to think that no, but I do remember something about family/close friend groups where it was said that while one member is away the group appears to close ranks, but that provided the will is there the group is elastic enough to receive them again.
I agree that thinking we know someone might be not giving them the freedom to be who they are, however often in MLC they don't know who that is. If they can be open and honest about who they are then yes -- but as so many of us know that isn't the case.
I just remember back to my own period of behaving badly (albeit at a young age when so much more is forgiven); I was so pushing my changed being, saying I was now blank blank blank, until one day I realised that I COULD still be the person inside. And I took a deep breath and went "back". And was received with open arms. Despite people having reason to push me away.
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Happy Birthday Marine Corp and all the LBS military wives. My parents were both army. I respect all forms of military service!!
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Thank you, but as you have perhaps guessed, its not my birthday today, but that of the Marine Corps. It began its proud history back in 1775.
The Corps is one of my favorite institutions. For me, male Marines are the epitome of manhood. Many years ago I had one of my fondest memories-that of attending the official ball. It is a memory I will cherish forever. My H was so tall and proud, big and strong, intelligent and fearless. We were on the fast track to the top of Washington DC society and influence. We appeared to the world as a couple that had it all. He in his uniform and medals, me in a lovely gown. We danced and had a wonderful time. I was so much in love. Shortly after that he was deployed again to the Middle East and I went to work in DC. For about 3 months I didn't have a clue as to where he was or how he was fairing. SOP for a military wife at times. But you pretty quickly learn to do what you have to do. Sort of good training for the later crisis.
When he returned we began the descent into MLC hell, slowly, ever so slowly.
Medusa, My3, and I are proud (former) Marine wives, and we are just 3 of the many military families on this forum. We know the meaning first hand of patriotism and service as we lived it for years and years. Yes, I miss seeing my military family. They were always more of a family to me than my own in many ways. And they were there for me when my ex and I split.
Oh sure Medusa! I studied how to be a proper wife and lady!
Hoo-Rah Hoo-Rah! Medusa's right. I will never forget the sound.
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Long after his uniform has been laid aside
Far away from his last duty station
It still runs in your veins
And lives in your memories
Long after the last long distance phone call
There is a pride
That can only be shared by wives
We are individuals bonded together by the harshest of realities
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Behind every strong Marine
There is an even stronger woman
Who stands by him, supports him, and loves him,
With all her heart.
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Today is one of the few days I take out my memories and dust them off a bit and remember the man that ex once was, in my eyes and in the eyes of the Marines, and his country.
LP
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I just saw Medusa's post and I realised it was not yours, but the Marine Corps birthday. I had no idea it dated back to the XVIII century.
We Europeans wrongly tend to think pretty much everything in the US is very new, nothing has a few centuries, when in fact some things do.
Hoo-Rah Hoo-Rah! Medusa's right. I will never forget the sound.
I am trying to picture the sound (going from films and tv series), but I am fairly certain it is very far from reality.
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Anjae, you say that perhaps you want a level that isn't possible, because we have done so much mirror work, etc.... it's possible that we also over-analyse, that we are hyper-sensitive to may things.
I am not certain if the reason is over analyse or being hyper-sensitive to many things. I think it really is more a case of us becoming more developed than must people because we have done all that work. Most people never do the kind of work we did (do).
For me is more, will Mr J ever fit with me, the current me? With how/who I have become? I have no idea. Even on a professional level, he still seems like a teenager. It is impossible to work with someone behaving the way he still is, let alone have a relationship, be it friendship or something more.
I just remember back to my own period of behaving badly (albeit at a young age when so much more is forgiven); I was so pushing my changed being, saying I was now blank blank blank, until one day I realised that I COULD still be the person inside. And I took a deep breath and went "back". And was received with open arms. Despite people having reason to push me away.
For me that happened in my late teens, before I meet Mr J. So, it happened at what could be considered the right age. I was impossible, a rebel, a real load. I pushed and pushed and pushed and did a few wrong things. But since I was 15-17, I was just being a teenager. No harm was done, no marriage was broken. In fact, I am quite glad I was such a rebel at that age.
Mr J never behaved the way I did when we was a teen. He was always a serious, quiet kid. Maybe that is why he is having a MLC. Maybe it is not.
To be fair, I had another period of behaving badly. After Mr J left. But, again, no marriage was broken and no harm was done. I was on my own and dealing with grief (from Mr J leaving, from my dad dying, etc) on my own way, the way I knew how to deal with at the time. And that was going out and about and drinking more than I should. I knew it was temporary, I did not had the guilt MLCers have, so, in the end, it was not so bad.
Did I grew during those two phases of behaving bad? I think I did after they ended. Or maybe the phases themselves lead to the after growth. During the phases I was much more interested in doing things than in thinking about things. Which I think is good. There is a time for doing, and a time for thinking.
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LP, your post brought tears. I, too, miss so many aspects of the Corps. I was always so proud of my Marine husband, and I miss who he was.
His retirement ceremony was at the Marine Corps Museum in Quantico. D24 sang he national anthem a capella in the soaring atrium. Her voice is amazing, and both STBX and I teared up as her voice echoed through the building. On that day, I think I was most proud of him.
And then we, too, began our descent to hell. One day, I hope he will again be worthy of the title Marine.
Semper Fi and Hoo-Rah.
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Happy Veteran's Day to all you military wives!!! You deserve congrats every bit as much as your spouse!!! Well done!!!🇺🇸
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I agree with the idea of it being easier for broken people to find a relationship. Those are need based relationships and something I would no longer want any part of. Someone asked on another thread if everyone is broken and should we just accept it. I think we all have some level of broken but its a choice as to how much we allow that to control our thoughts and actions.
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The term broken seems extreme to me. Yes, the MLC'er is beyond broken, but most people are not that extreme in their psyche. Everyone has quirks and flaws, but not everyone decides to blow their worlds apart without a second thought.
As difficult as it is to accept....these are not now, and very likely never will be again the people we once trusted with our very beings. That person who left us high and dry at BD is who they are now. So if you are a covenant stander you may be in for a lifetime of playing the waiting game. That's not how I'm going down. Life was meant to be lived and that's exactly what I am doing and will continue to do.
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As difficult as it is to accept....these are not now, and very likely never will be again the people we once trusted with our very beings. That person who left us high and dry at BD is who they are now. So if you are a covenant stander you may be in for a lifetime of playing the waiting game.
That's if we assume standing means waiting. Yes, this happens but it's also what we are trying to teach people what not to do, standing is not supposed to be just waiting and watching. Just the opposite.
This time away is supposed to help us detach, find ourselves and in the meantime it gives us a clearer lens at what our marriage really was, not just what we thought it was. I thought mine was near perfect, it wasn't. Some might be surprised (as I am done) that looking back, mine was pretty darn good though, not perfect but good. I have many great memories that I will always hold dear, yes the year before BD, BD and beyond sucked, but before that time, my marriage wasn't terrible.
So will the Leaver ever be capable of being exactly like the person I once trusted? Of course not, whether he finds his way out or not, we both will always be changed, time and experiences good or bad does that to people. This man I knew and loved for 25+ years changed, made bad decisions and ran away. Is it possible that he will change again and make different hopefully more reasonable decisions in the future?
If he changed his mind once, why not again?
Too bad for them, by the time they do, usually the person who was left is gone.
I have said this several times, what disappoints me about this article is I personally disagree with the statement about time. Yes i agree that most seem to reconcile on the earlier side, but my opinion is because on the earlier side the person who was left wasn't yet done. If my husband changed his mind within the first 2-3 years, I would have taken him back. Now that 3+ years have gone by, I have done so much GALing that I really don't want to deal with his nonsense anymore. I had a lot to offer so someone else scooped me up. I always said my husband was textbook MLC, well, turns out, I'm textbook too. Why work on a mess with him when I can be treated with respect and love by someone else?
Lately I do see changes with the Leaver, he was a vanisher who has been sniffing around. If I was a stander, then I feel within the next year or two, we would have had a very good chance.
So, yes, I do believe they can come out of this mess. Unfortunately for him, and many like him, life went on while he was in la-la land.
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And I agree with everything you've just said, Nah. Choices were made, lives were disrupted. I'm not saying things can't be fixed, but I think way too many things would have to in alignment for it to be likely with most couples
Nothing is impossible, I'm just saying it isn't likely. Every relationship had it's good and bad. Mine was average for the most part, and now that I'm single again for the 1st time in 18 years....I've had more than my share of attention from men than I ever did in my 20's. And after dealing with xh's nonsense and bs, it is exactly what I needed to start carving my own path and my own identity. I was the perfect co-dependent, and this detachment from him and our M is what I needed too, even though I wish he hadn't gone crazy in the process.
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Good post Nah. You've saved me a ton of writing. :)
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The term broken seems extreme to me. Yes, the MLC'er is beyond broken, but most people are not that extreme in their psyche. Everyone has quirks and flaws, but not everyone decides to blow their worlds apart without a second thought.
I agree, most people are not that extreme and most likely are not broken. They just have their quirks and flaws.
For me it is more a question of personal development and being in the same page. Not easy.
Agree, Nah.
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I think I am the person who said that everyone is broken. Maybe broken is a very dramatic word for simply -- in a process.
I think it takes a type of humility to be able to examine that process openly and honestly. I feel as a result of this LBS experience I value this type of sincerity, even sort of a fumbling honesty, more than ever.
Or maybe as Leonard Cohen wrote (it's everywhere today):
"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
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Great post, Nah.
Even if we do no work, we change because life goes on. We have to come to terms with that, and it's not easy. Both the MLCer and LBS will have experienced that shape them. Even if the MLCer forgets chunks of what he did, the LBS has to come to terms with our memories. That, I would guess, is one of the most difficult parts of reconciliation.
We have levels of brokenness. When we do the mirror work, we learn what is and isn't acceptable to us. We hopefully realize that at our age, everyone is going to have some baggage. Even if we reconcile.
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I went back and re-read what you ever wrote, LP.
I found this quite interesting:
Therefore, no assurance that without the broken parts meshing, we would be a solid couple with a viable future.
Sometimes I wonder if a little (or a lot) of brokeness is what makes some couples viable. And if so, is it so bad to have some brokeness present?
Somehow, from my personal experience, healed, or more healed people, have a hard time find a mate. At least, I have. It was much, much easier when I was not healed. Or was less developed (when I was younger). Now it is like I am on a level and most people are in another.
And I am probably being too choosy and wanting a certain level that may not be available.
Happy birthday, LP.
Anjae and others as not all is directed at Anjae, just general discussion ,
Personally I differentiate between brokenness and being human, having human weaknesses and personality traits.
Brokenness is exemplified here most often in my thoughts as levels of codependency. It is the spouse who sees no reason to live without the partner. It is the spouse who cannot define themselves without reference to the other spouse. It is the lbs standing still. It is the lbs hanging on every word or action of the mlc person. It is sacrificing ones self for the other. Its the inability to understand the mlc person isn't the person you married. Its the inability to face that the mlc spouse doesn't currently care what you want or how this impacts you. It's the screaming that I don't have mirror work to do, he's the one with the problem. Its the inability to see the broken parts meshed so both had broken parts. Its the inability to see the difference between toxic enabling and healthy strong boundaries. Its being unable or unwilling toaintain healthy boundaries. Its the constant cry of "why\how did he do this to me? . Its the conflict avoidant approach to life's challenges, not opening the mailbox, not standing up for ones self, being beaten down and behaving like a martyr or victim especially in the hopes the mlc person (and others) will see this as a measure of your love. Its clinging to HS as a part of your identity, coming here day after day, hour after hour, avoiding making a new life, new friends, new interests and moving forward. And everything else that falls under the label of codependency and the like. Being a fixer is a huge flag of brokenness. As is being controlling which is part of being a fixer.
Human traits are not brokenness per se. They are simpler things such as a tendency to be introverted versus extroverted. A tendency to prefer specific activities to others. Perhaps you have a thought process that prefers more logical thought patterns versus someone who is earthier and likes shades of gray. The trait only tends towards brokenness when there is intolerance and an inability to think outside the box and consider other ways of understanding. We need both skills although one is usually a stronger easier fit. For example, a computer, math, engineering type thinker should be able to also exercise and appreciate and even understand a part of the person who is more artistic, a gray thinker, a bit more abstract. There are times when exercising both sides of the brain is enriching even necessary to leading a happy fulfilled life. Being unable to do that is a sign of brokenness.
So for me brokenness comes from human tendencies gone awry. There is a significant difference between preferring your spouse handle paying the bills as he is an accountant and you cook the meals as you are a chef AND you being unable to pay the bills because you have no idea how and are too scared to open the mail so you conflict avoid and hide your head in the sand. As well if youre the accountant in the example and you choose to starve versus learn to cook a simple meal.
You see, a healthy relationship means that both the chef and the accountant eat and pat their bills. And both take an interest in the skills of another so that both parties are appreciated and knowledgeable. Partnership.
Many find in retrospect that they didn't have a balanced partnership. Both sides were at fault for that as both were part of the marriage. That doesn't mean one didn't love the spouse or that they are rearing history. Instead it means their definition of healthy and broken has evolved as they got healthier.
So to get to your comment, to paraphrase, I don't believe some brokenness is necessary in a relationship. Human characteristics and qualities are necessary. That is where true meshing and appreciation creates a beautiful marriage partnership where the two parties respect each others similarities and differences. But the key is respect. Without respect there is no love. Respect doesn't involve taking the other person for granted either. It means surprising the chef with a prepared dinner at times because sometimes the chef may not feel like cooking.
Yes it is easier to find a mate when broken to various degrees. There is much brokenness in the world. However for me, I'd rather be single than be a half of broken team. I've already done that once and its no fun and no longer suits my wants in life. As well the reality is there are healthy as well as broken people in the world and one is only single as long as they choose to be for the most part. Healthy attracts healthy but at times broken as well. When the lbs gets healthier, the mlc person may be attracted as they need to draw strength from the healthy person. Its still an unhealthy relationship at that point if the lbs accepts contact but more of draining emotionally and a huge test of all the lbs has learned. To remain healthy while the sickness remains encapsulated in the mlc person as they work on becoming healthier.
I see some talk of if I get healthier and stronger will I risk getting too healthy to have him back. Yes you might. BUT: When one asks that it is a symptom of them still being broken. To choose to stay ill in order to possibly mesh with broken is a train wreck waiting to happen. A waste of the experience and self abusive. Would you choose to have cancer just because your spouse has cancer and says he will leave if you don't also get cancer? No, not likely. Little difference here. In this case of a possible return the mlc person has the option of working to get healthy or not. The lbs has the option of giving it a chance, and walking if after a reasonable time the mlc person fails to make progress getting healthy. But the strength needed to live that choice is easier coming from a healthy person that a broken person.
Yes, no person is perfect but a healthy person has core respect, healthy boundaries, and is able to appreciate others for what they are, which is translates to being able to attract a healthy partner if they chose and the skills to differentiate between a healthy relationship and an unhealthy relationship.
We make our own choices and are 100% responsible for those choices.
Lp
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Thank you for your reply, LP.