[Lady Grey]

Thank you so much for your reply 1trouble

I'm sorry you were in a situation where you needed to use a PI too, but good to hear that it was money well spent...I suspect I would feel the same, and also as you say, see it a bit like insurance...protection if you end up needing it. It's so disturbing though, that she had been in your road!

I did a bit of my own investigating right after I found out and ended up with her address, last name and fb page. I already had her phone number and picture from h's phone.

So I guess it's more of a background check I'm after. Anyone else that I didn't already know well, who was going to be around my children (day care, nanny etc) I would absolutely get a police check on.

Maybe I'll start by finding out from a PI what they can do in my situation, and the costs...

Thanks again 1t xx

[OldPilot]

I don’t have a story thread yet, so a little background:

Thanks for having the courage to post, welcome to the board.

I encourage you to start posting(on your own thread) and being able to learn from us and to also share your knowledge.

I hate to meet people like this but I will also tell you that even though you see some arguing here that this is one of the best places to share your story.

Since you are a subscriber you can also share on that board which adds a little more privacy.

Again welcome to the place that none of us wanted to ever be.

[Mortesbride]

I just found this thread today and it is 10 pages of insanity that I thought had a lot of promise. I have highly edited the following post to take some truthful stings out. I hope the message comes across without setting anyone off into a tail spin. 

Personally I think there SHOULD be a place where people can vent all their negative feelings about OM/OW. There is a prevalence for people (as seen here) to jump on the ''your not allowed to talk about them'' bandwagon. We all know the reasons that YOU feel they shouldn't be spoken about, but maybe someone else NEEDS to say it...to get it out.. and get healed.

I know I for one personally have no need to speak about her. That is just because I have already dissected it and seen it for what it was very very early. I have healed that small portion of it. But if it comes to the situation where she starts to interact with my kids I will lose my $h!te probably.  And I really don't care if people don't like it. Because losing my $h!te on here is better then losing my $h!te in real life.

On the other side we also have to agree that if you get stuck in focusing on them for a long time, if you are acting out in ''real life'', if you are being hostile and name calling...and that is where all the rage and anger is focused...then it will never heal. That is looking for a scapegoat for the problem.

The OM/OW is an @$$hole. Plain and simple. They engaged with a married person, they continued a relationship they knew would cause pain. They are selfish and deeply character flawed. If you need to come on here and scream and shout and name call and get it all out...you should be able to do that...but then you should be able to move on. Don't sit around doing that for years on end because that means you are just as stuck as the MLCer. And no matter who the OM/OW was or is... no matter how $h!tety they behaved...the problem is in fact in our spouse.

There is a lot of ''pack'' and ''bandwagon'' mentality for silencing people on here. Not just for OM/OW talk but many other issues. I have noticed it, and generally tend to avoid it and not interact because it is of no use to me. You can not truly learn if you only look at things from one perspective.

How can you know what is truly happening on a farm for instance if you constantly listen to the ''baaing of sheep''. You need to see from the sheep's point of view, but also from the Shepard, and the sheep dog, and the wolves. Only then can you piece together the whole picture and find the truth.

One case of MLC does not equal a whole. That includes HB or RCR, or any of the well known and respected veterans. Anjae, Stayed, Barbie, RCR....all have very different MLCers. Would anyone dare to tell one of these ladies that their MLCer is not a MLCer because ''mine didn't do x, y, or z''?? Absolutely not. Individual details do not matter, patterns do.

At the same time I find it almost disturbing how much people seem to almost worship RCR and HB. They wrote some good $h!te, they made decent articles, they managed to get through and provide guidance to lost people. They got us together in a place we can share, and heal, and grow. They deserve a great deal of respect for that. But some people show almost a reverence that is unreal. They were just people too. They were women in pain, they firetrucked up...they made mistakes...they still do. Stop expecting them to be super human. Stop telling other's that they can't do stuff X way because ''RCR did it Y way''.

People need to feel they have a voice. People need to know they can get out their darkness, and their pain, and their fear....without being judged, or bullied, or shut up. Sometimes they need a 2x4, sometimes they don't need you to pander to their ego or fragile self esteem. But sometimes...they just need to have a laugh and vent.

As for the name calling in the policy...pretty sure that is mostly for us to each other. Not a LBS to an OM/OW. It isn't likely a OM/OW is going to be here reading it and get offended. We aren't supposed to call each other names, we aren't supposed to call our MLCer names, and probably not start entirely bashing the OP 24/7....but that doesn't mean you can't vent about the OP. How is that not entirely obvious? Why does RCR need to spell it out for us like we are school age children?

And if you really wanna get picky and literal about the rules... scroll down to ''Inflaming and provoking conflict''. Constantly coming into EVERY conversation to tell people how they are wrong for feeling how they feel is pretty close to that in my opinion. How can we tell someone they CAN'T have a discussion thread because it doesn't fit OUR view point? Particularly when there was a disclaimer AT THE BEGINNING asking people to allow this space to be for said reason. The same people do it, in the same way. Every time.

I have a deep respect for the people who spend their time giving guidance and help on HS. I know it must take a lot of work both physically and emotionally. Without these people a lot of people would be stuck and lost in pain, unable to heal and get through this. But I do not think ''time served'' gives anyone a higher status that they are not to be told when they are wrong.

At the end of the day we are all adults. We shouldn't need to have good behaviour spelled out for us. We should be able to actively tell people they are out of line, and they should be able to constructively use that...apologise...debate...move on. None of us are here because we are perfect. None of us will get out of this unless we accept that sometimes we are wrong. Because it is only noticing the wrongs, fixing them, that we grow and learn.

Stop taking everything so literal, learn to lighten up, learn to channel your rage and pain...learn to accept you are not always right. Then grow and get the firetruck out of here. 

[Lady Grey]

Thank you for the welcome OldPilot

I'll keep working towards a story thread, here or on the other board...

[Helpingme!]

My goodness. What happened here???
It sure seems to be alot judgemental  people here lately. My morning coffee just turned bad. Good Lord.
I think main issue is a few people have issues with each other. It's been going on lately. I wish y'all could work things out.
Father5 you may be a newbie but you said it best my friend. I hope they listen.
Evergreen, as OP said this is a great place and it's helped me survive. Please keep posting.
I love this site. Main thing people need to think about is what the great NAH said. WE ARE NOT PERFECT, nobody is!!! Nah , you've never made me mad. But you sure made me laugh a few times. Ha.

I hope every one can get back on track. I sure miss my morning peace moments.
Have a good weekend my friends

[stayed]

Good discussion.  Anger is NORMAL.  Controlled anger comes in time.  As long as we continue to grow and learn, then it's all good.  Getting stuck in any ONE spot is the enemy.  Then life becomes like ground hog day. 

Sounds like a lot of growing and learning is happening.  Good. 

Hugs Stayed

[Rollercoasterider]

I locked this thread to give a cool down period for everyone and time for me to decide what to do with it.
These days I am trying to address one thing at a time, I am not pulling in so many quotes and I am trying to write shorter posts. Sometimes I fail, but what seems more problematic is that I don’t get to all the issues at once or I don’t answer everyone’s concerns or questions at once.
My initial response was meant to say that I do not have a problem with a thread that is on the topic of the alienator.
In saying that I was not trying to say anything else-such as that we should or should not name-call, rage, vent bully, research, discuss…
Had I started this topic I would not have made it an open invitation to name-call. I might have said it could be a place to vent which is why I did not include rant in what I might not suggest since rant seems to me a synonym to vent.

Off on a tangent for a moment about name-calling. Since this was what seemed (to me) to be what got people the most riled up, I’ve been thinking about it a lot these last 24+ hours. I think it is subjective and to make no name-calling a rule would be too controlling as well as confusing. At DB I called Chuck Sweetheart. Technically that was a name I was calling him. But yes, when we use that term—name-calling—we are talking about negative names. But what about names that are not positive, but not really derogatory—perhaps neutral? Some of the names I recall from D were Peter Pan and Ghost. In an earlier post on this thread, Airmid told us she called her MLCer Ostrich-Boy and she said it was a pet-name. If it’s a pet-name, is it okay? She also said she called the alienator parasite and pond scum. I’ve seen several use pond scum over the years. I wonder if it is because I have not edited that out of my articles or we all think alike! I know I edited it out of the manuscript years ago, but originally I had a section about the alienator with the heading Pond Scum. I did remove it because I did not want to be derogatory—and clearly there was a time when I was—and because it was not professional. I understand when you guys use derogatory terms, but please do not take understanding for endorsement.
Yes, we need to step carefully with the nicknames we give our MLCer and the alienator, so some could be edited out by a moderator and you may be asked not use them, others will pass.
A few of you mentioned that you felt the no name-calling was more about not using it against board members. Yes, that is also true—though that negate anything I said above. Honestly I even get lost with the initials we give to shorten board names. At DB I spent 3 months confused about SA3—what did it mean—I searched the glossary of acronyms to no avail; everyone but me seemed to know. Well, it was StillAlone3 and I felt pretty stupid when I figured it out—since the context made it clear to most others!

I did not address the gestapo comment in my initial post because I was trying to stay on the specific topic of saying the thread topic was okay AND because it was so egregious to require more than a post. I am trying to keep issues that lead to action regarding The Code of Conduct more private. And I just failed at that by mentioning it here and yet you need to know something is being done—basically damned either way!
I am sorry that my use of the word policing/police may have seemed to endorse the comment. That was not my intention and I was not even connecting them together until someone kindly pointed it out to me—though her auto correct went awry and I got to read that my comment of  please sing was like an endorsement. I didn’t get it until I said it fast a few times…a strange time for a laugh, but I needed it. I asked if there is a better word and she said policing is actually fine and fits the context—it was just unfortunate to come when there was that gestapo reference and so got connected. I looked up synonyms after she pointed out the connection and found nothing better or that seemed as accurate.

The calling out of one poster by another by saying you had a sweepstakes when that person would show up…
That post was removed. It was inflammatory and helped send this thread into the conflict-ridden gutter. Whether you felt certain that person would show up to contradict or bully or police or whatever; the only purpose in saying it was to be mean and incite more conflict.

In my initial post I addressed Anjae personally.
Why?
Why not Xyzcf also?
If I was calling Anjae out, why not call out the gestapo comment too—I edited that comment out, but it remains in a ton of quotes and I’m not sure what to do about that, so have not edited those posts.
Well, in my mind I was talking to Anjae, not calling her out. I was trying to explain why I did not have a problem with the thread topic? Why not include Xyzcf then? Good point. I didn’t think of it—after reading through I was responding to what was closest to my post and Anjae seemed to me to be a leader of the side which seemed against the topic. We also have a history together, so I felt comfortable talking to her. I have a history with Xyzcf too, so probably should have included her.
Xyzcf has since (on the mod board) offered an explanation for her initial post which helps me to understand better where she (and others I assume) was coming from.

A thread to discuss the alienator is fine with me. When I read 1trouble's first post though, I immediately became concerned at what she was proposing, concerned because it crosses many borders of decency that create turmoil.

I think that is an excellent point—and the thread di go off the rails. Before reading Xyzcf’s post on the mod board, I just thought she felt a thread topic discussing the alienator should not be allowed.

For each of us our attention may be drawn to different things a person says. For me the comment that really rang true was this:

Its my opinion that you have to get to a point of acceptance and detachment and to do that you have to understand and that may mean going round and round talking about something until you understand it.

I’ve said this basic thing so many times and to me it is a perfect reason why a thread like this is acceptable. The name-calling comments took a back-seat to me. I did not agree with them as an endorsement as they came-off, but the other comment just took more center stage and so I took less notice of the name-calling comment.

I have debated whether to remove the off-topic posts and continue this thread—getting it back on track, or archiving it and starting a new thread instead. I think I will start a new thread with my own explanations to avoid suggestions of things like name-calling… as what you should do. Maybe you will do that, but it doesn’t need to be endorsed. I will not start it right now—got to get going. Maybe tonight or tomorrow. I want to take the time to craft my opening post.

I have probably missed some points I had wanted to comment on as I read and I am sorry if I have not addressed something you feel is important.