[Treasur]

Well, I certainly found out that I was a lot more fragile than I thought before I slowly learned that I wasn't entirely 

[Anjae]

Good thought!  People are really very fragile... or at least many seem to be...

Humans are fragile, mentally and physically. Or we can go from being strong to fragile in the blink of an eye.

Nothing makes you more aware of it than accompanying a stroke survivor to a neurology apppintment at the hospital, and then, walk a good portion inside the hospital until the main entrance. Many people are there for routine appointments like we were, but, in February, one moment my aunt was fine, the next she had a stroke and everything changed.

She was lucky, it was very mild, but it still left issues to be dealt with and she is not as strong or capable as she used to be.

Others were in the hospital because they were having a stroke, a motorbike or car accident just happened, their minds gave in and needed psychiatric ER doctors, etc.

Humans are resilient and manage to sustain a lot, but we can easily break in mind and body.

[stayed]

Well, I certainly found out that I was a lot more fragile than I thought before I slowly learned that I wasn't entirely 

I like that... found out you were more fragile then you thought UNTIL you learned you weren't!  Well said... and so very, very true!


Hugs Stayed

[HeartTattoo]

Such an interesting story about your aunt & uncle, OSB.

There are so many ways to conceal an existential crisis, and so many 'socially justifiable' ways to run.

I think this is where our affluent, individualism-prizing society comes in. Family break-up is so common & so acceptable that the causes of it are barely given a thought. Everyone just "moves on".

For too many people "I just fell 'in love' with someone else" seems like a perfectly acceptable rationale for destroying a family.

[xyzcf]

We are often told that MLC has a finite life span and as we are seeing, it lasts much longer than the original thought of 2-3 years which was later changed to 2-7 years.

But experience is showing that for many LBSers, even those time frames are too short, and indeed some MLCers may never show signs of exiting the tunnel.

I am not talking about whether they come home or not, but how some continue to show signs of "abnormal" behavior for lack of a better word and indeed a worsening even the longer time goes on.

Quote from: xyzcf on September 04, 2018, 02:08:51 PM
... instead of the length of the crisis making things better I now believe that in some cases, the pathology continues and they lose even more of who they once were...


Anjae’s response:
I agree. I don't know if those cases will remain in crisis forever, but I do agree that being in MLC/replay for so long makes it much worst and they lose themselves more and more. If we thing about it, it makes sense. Since MLC is similar to addiction, the longer someone is an addict, the more that person loses itself

Mr J seems to be a strange person right now and since two and a half years ago. He start to go back to concerts of bands he likes, he sometimes gets in touch and is much nicer. Then we have the mix of normal and  crazy monster like Monday.

We tend to think that they are becoming better people, but the longer the crisis, the less it seems to be so. Still, who knows. Stayed's Irish friend's husband turned up out of the blue ater had been gone for nine years.

For mine and yours Trust it has been more than 9 years, for Xyzcf's husband it has been 9 years and 9 years down the road he asked for a divorce who knows why.

Then there are those like Mitzpah husband, it has been 7 years I think, he does not get worst, but he also does not seem to get better/really come out of Replay. Mitz MLCer is a nice one, not an ugly monster one like Mr J. Still, nice or monster, that does not seem to be a factor for how long will they remain in crisis/Replay.

Many MLCers display some sort of addictive behavior. Whether it be to work, gambling, affairs, substances there is a similarity in this.

Sometimes LBSers talk as though the MLCer could make different choices than they do but like other complex behaviors, I am not so sure that is true.

I am in therapy, a style of therapy that is "different" than typical talk therapy...it focuses on mind /body connection and attempts to change neural pathways from constantly being in a flight/fight mode and even more difficult a freeze mode by building new neural pathways.

This chart explains what happens when we stay in Fight/fight or go into FREEZE mode:
http://www.rubyjowalker.com/PVchart7HD.jpg
 
I have definitely been retraumatized by his divorce after 9 years of clinging boomerang behavior and I think, at times, I can emphasize a bit with what the MLCer is experiencing, because what I am feeling is horrible and even with all I try to do to "get better" and all the therapy and understanding of why I feel this way....it doesn't change the depression and body experiences that are very very disturbing.....The left side of my brain can rationalize and tell me that I "should not" be experiencing trauma to this extend once again, but the right side of my brain has it's own agenda..this is where trauma memories are stored and where the brain affects the physical symptoms that I experience, this is where 1+2=64.

The somatic experiences are not in my control and I think about Barbiedoll's and MyBrainIsBroken documentation of the somatic things they have experienced and I can really relate to them.

I have to think more about why I am writing this....I suspect my right brain is in charge of trying to explain something to myself that continues to perplex me and confuse me.

I posted some articles on https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10273.msg686590#new from a workshop I just attended on Complex PTSD which has triggered this mumbo jumbo of thoughts.....as I said frequently in the past...if this wasn't happening to my life I would find it all very fascinating.

[Anjae]

Those links on the links threads are very interesting.

I attended a kinderganten based on the avant-garde austro-swiss early XX century kindergartens. It was progressive, but it still had rules. It focussed on children as individuals and incentivated our creativity. I was devastated when my first kindergardent teacher left just one year after I was there.

But I was never misstreated bu the teachers or staff. However, when the end of our dictatorship come, all of a sudden, some kids wanted to beat my cousin (the one who latter had MLC). Why? They were screamings you are Reds, your parents are Reds. That wasn't making any sense, we were kids, politics was not something it was talked about up until then. At the time, things were heated in our country and we lived, and I still live, in a posh, upper class mostly right wing area - my old kindergarten is in the same stree I live, a few metres ahead, now a private home.

I got in front of my cousin and told the bullies they would had to hit/deal with me first. Unlike cousin, I was not scared of a fight and I hit to hurt. They run. Then, in primary school, first year I had a wonderful young teacher. She also left and class went to an old teacher with old ways. He used a cane to hit us behind our years, a paddle to hit our hands, etc. We find that soaking our hands with chalk would make the pain dimish. It was such a shock, went from a young, modern teacher to that old fashioned teacher. By then, corporal punishements were already abolished, but he hadn't caught up with the times.

I had more incidents with teachers and colleagues on middle and high school. Never on University, but I was on my late 20's when I went to University. 

Mr J had lots of issues with teachers and colleagues. He was not a jock, but  shy intellectual kid with glasses.

So, yes, I would say that there is a connection between "multiple traumatic events that occur within the caregiving system" and traumas/problems.

Therefore, I may be right that it (MLC) does not always have to do with family issues. I also think it does not always have to do with childhood issues, it can be related to adolescence ones.

As for a link between Complex PTSD and a connection to obesity and diabetes. It does not surprise me. Anxiety/Stress/PSTD/Complex PSTD cause all sorts of other illnesses. I only got high blood pressure August 2006 when Mr J was already monster and nasty. The doctors checked and checked and couldn't find a cause - they weren't very clever. Now, with all the added anxiety/stress/tiredness of 12 years with a husband in MLC, 8 years looking after grandmother and peri-menopause, some health things aren't so good, even if I am quite fit (fit and healthy aren't the same thing).

I have no doubt that all my health issues come from this mess, and prior of this mess already from stess from the problems that falled upon me when I was turning 14 and doctors getting it all wrong and prescribing wrong meds, including some that messed my hormones for good.

Anxiety/Stress/PSTD mess with metabolism, with the nervous system, with the digestive system, etc.

It is well known that some people gain weight when stressed (other lose weight). With me, it depends, but, sometimes I gain.

I have no doubt whatsoever that stress is the cause of pretty much every illness we deal with. I saw it on myself, mum, grandmother, aunt, paternal aunt, etc. I saw it in Mr J - he was a ticking bomb of stress and axiety and depression before he left andis stil one - in my cousin that had MLC - another ticking bomb of stress before he hit rock bottom, in friends, etc.

Since Monday and the talk with Mr J, even if now I know every trick in the book, my stress level rose. I even wake up in the middle of the night and have to take more magnesium and eat bananas. Which means I have not been able to sleep a full night in days.

[xyzcf]

Anjae:

Therefore, I may be right that it does not have to do with family issues. Or not for everyone. I also think it does not always have to do with childhood issues, it can be related to adolescence ones.

Absolutely! Think about the sexual abuse issues that are being uncovered, and what affect that will have on so many people, not just those who were abused but also on their children and other family members, especially if they have not received any therapy and as so often is the case, they go on to abuse others.

Since MOnday and the talk with Mr J, even if now I know every trick in the book, my stress level rose. I even wake up in the middle of the night and have to take more magnesium and eat bananas.

My "fear" has become so ingrained (what will he do next that will hurt me?) that the briefest of contact send me spiralling downhill. I am really unhappy about this...the "feelings" are not the same as at BD, but in some ways they are worse because they are "different" and yet very similar and like his crisis, out of my control.

[Anjae]

Absolutely! Think about the sexual abuse issues that are being uncovered, and what affect that will have on so many people, not just those who were abused but also on their children and other family members, especially if they have not received any therapy and as so often is the case, they go on to abuse others.

Indeed. In my case it oes not have to do with sexual abuse. It has to do with going from an idyllic childhood to being pulled from school because mum and dad deciced eithr it was school for me (8th grade) or food for my siblings. It was a lie. Dad was making good money, and even if he was not, we have school social services to cover those cases. I have tol that story in etail in one of my ol threads.

Think mum just recreated what grandfather did to her. With no explanation he took her out of school when she was 13. Grandfather suffered from mental illness and when mum was 15 killed himself.

Mum and dad were great, but together it wouln't took long until things become messy. Dad was away for most ot my childhood, either in our colonial war or in exhile and all was wonderful. I was an only chil with enough (grandfather had already lost the family fortune, mum was working, but there was still enough for a nice midlle/middle upper class life).

My "fear" has become so ingrained (what will he do next that will hurt me?) that the briefest of contact send me spiralling downhill. I am really unhappy about this...the "feelings" are not the same as at BD, but in some ways they are worse because they are "different" and yet very similar and like his crisis, out of my control.

This time it was not fear. I knew the worst it could happen was no (to allow the exhibition curators to pick my materials that are with Mr J). I acceot that I didn't factor I was going to get monster. It has been 12 years. Monster?

Not so much feeling in my case. It was physical. I felt stress on my spinal cord. OK, I got furious, silently furious at the disrespect. It erose quickly, but the stress did not. I even pulled a Watcher and used my dumbbells with more weight  , went for a long walk including clibbing tons of stairs outside the stadium area, etc.

It has been a few days and the effects haven't all went away yet. I know contact with Mr J is not good for me, but the exhibition was (is) important. Still, I should had known better and known I was more important than the exhibition.

One thing stress/anxiety does to me is that it makes my brain foggy and tired. And I also need carbs, including cake. Otherwise I get cranky, something that not even the peri-menopause manages.

[xyzcf]

I wanted to share something from my therapy session yesterday because it helps me understand why it has been so difficult for me to heal.

I was explaining a "visual" I had been having of being in a body of water and not being able to get my head above the water...I could peek out with my eyes but something underneath that I couldn't see kept dragging me under again and again....at some point I could reach one arm out but down I would go again.

My therapist stated: "drowning people drown people".

The connection between my husband and I, the cords that tie us together are much deeper and invisible sometimes. As much as I have tried to "let go" as we are so fond of saying, it has been very difficult.

A former LBSer who marriage is restored reminded me that her husband never did the things that mine did, for so many years...gifts, dinners out, family holidays together, vacations always feeding me those crumbs that had me thinking that he still cared about me, that I still mattered to him.

"Drowning people drown people". In real life, the life saver often does get pulled down into the depth with the person that is drowning, the person they are trying to "save" and for their own survival, they may have to let go of the grip they have and allow the drowned person to sink.

I have felt a shift lately and my therapist has seen it in me as well....I am very grateful for I did not ever expect to go into such a deep state of depression again and yet I did, but after 4 months (since he announced his divorce) I am regaining my equilibrium....thanks to many many prayers, friends who have been there and an amazing therapist who fortunately I had already established a relationship with for several months before this (hopefully) final bomb drop.

Take care all of you..pay attention to how you are feeling. There is a great deal more I am learning that has a significance in the way I have responded to his crisis and I am hopeful now that my life will settle back to where it was 4 months ago when I was feeling pretty ok.

[Anjae]

"Drowning people drown people". In real life, the life saver often does get pulled down into the depth with the person that is drowning, the person they are trying to "save" and for their own survival, they may have to let go of the grip they have and allow the drowned person to sink.

Indeed. Life savers are trained to let go of the person they are saving if the life saver's life is in danger. No point of two people drowning.

I am regaining my equilibrium....thanks to many many prayers, friends who have been there and an amazing therapist who fortunately I had already established a relationship with for several months before this (hopefully) final bomb drop.

Excellent.