[in it]

Christmas is coming.. What would you like?
Do you want chaos and drama? More hurt, pain, mixed messages confusion and tears?
Or something a bit more joyful and peaceful?
If you haven't tried it yet you might want to.

These Mlcers are not going to allow it, or they aren't going to like it..no is a complete sentence. So you have to put your foot firmly down and enforce it.  By whatever means possible. Don't reply to the texts or emails, don't answer the phone, do not get together "for old times sake"

It's up to you people.

[Treasur]

I honestly think actions communicate much more clearly than words. Both for us and our spouses.
If we don't want to feel hurt or abused or confused, and we have politely asked people to stop as normal people do and they won't for whatever reason, then all we can do is step away from people who hurt us.
Their actions are communicating too.
I have always believed that NC is for me.
I think many LBS resist it for a while bc they are still concerned about how the MLCer will interpret it.
Until we reach a point where our gut screams that we need to for our own safety and sanity and peace.

If I want a life without lies and cruelty and disrespect, in the end all I can do is reduce my exposure to people who consistently act that way towards me. Anyone, not just an MLC spouse.  I don't have to understand why they do in order to say no and step away.

An interesting post from Chump lady about chaos https://www.chumplady.com/2018/12/chaos-the-fourth-channel/. I know not everyone here is a CL fan, but hervtake on the three 'channels' we see in our spouses behaviour has always rung true for me. Rage, selfpity and their own version of twisted charm. And the chaos, omg, the chaos...all those bits of mindf**king drama big and small that make no sense and are so exhausting to deal with. But it isn't OUR chaos. NC, or severely reducing it, is often the only way to stop being what CL calls the 'chaos janitor' for other people's mess...particularly when we LBS usually find we have plenty enough to clear up in our own backyard.

I don't know why so many MLC spouses do it or to what extent it is a conscious act of control or rage. But if you want peace more than chaos - and reading here often for many LBS the desire for peace comes first before the desire for happiness even - reducing your role in any drama or the extent to which it can reach you puts NC on the table as a sensible choice.

[Tyks]

I am definitely a fan of cl. She doesn't sugar coat anything and I think we need that as an lbs. Six months after bd and I knew for sure xh wasn't coming back. Of course I hoped for a long time but I am almost at meh.

I have been NC for a long time and recently have been having contact due to his inability to think for himself , ie, buy gifts for d16. The contact isn't bothering me like it used do, meaning I am not sad for days. But it sure is driving me crazy. Throough his text messages I see that he has not changed or done any work on himself in these last 2.5 years. It is all about him still and he still has no real identity. He is just assuming the ow's identity. Sad really. Whatever.

NC again I hope right after the holidays. And soon enough it'll be Tuesday because meh comes on Tuesday lol

[in it]

Well it takes too much effort and work to change Tkys and as long as they have someone else who will put up with their BS it's not going to.
And the focus will always be on them as they have no compassion or empathy or genuine,kind, caring interest in anyone else.

The only interest they have is to see who they can get to react..make a mess and then have someone else clean it up. Create their own storms then cry when it rains. And you are supposed to be there with a shoulder for them to cry on?

Or maybe they use the information they have gathered in getting to know (in their feigned interest) about someone against them. Pretty lousy if you ask me.
Or provoke and voice record you , stalk and harass you or video tape you . Who needs people like that in their life?

Wishing you all a peaceful Joyful Christmas.

[in it]

Read some threads this morning who might benefit from doing this.

[beyondblessed]

I'm not around much anymore, but just wanted to say no contact has been the best thing to ever happen for me.  I do not miss the abandoner, nor ever wish to have any type of contact with him. 

And, I love this holiday season because it means time to relax and truly enjoy the company of the family and friends, with whom I've been blessed.  I cannot wait.

[Treasur]

NC can be bandied around as a phrase, but of course reducing contact or putting some boundaries around it covers a wide range. NC means neither initiating or responding to any kind of contact at all. Which is quite extreme and quite difficult to do for those with shared custody or going through a divorce process when they still share assets like houses.

But
I agree with blessed that NC was a tremendous gift to me.
Looking back I think I eased towards it as I tried to detach and to respond rather than react. Even with a mostly vanisher there were weird communication 'pop ups' or strange 2am emails.

I think I started reducing contact bc I reached a point where trying to deal rationally with my then h was just too exhausting. And the insanity of it all brought me to a point when I just started filing it all as F for Futile. No agreement made could be relied on. Nothing he said could be taken at face value bc he lied about everything pretty much. And my then h simply did not care about what I thought or said at all. He would just do whatever he decided in the moment and then try to gaslight or lie his way out of any previous agreement. I think I eventually got to NC bc I was just exhausted by the insanity of trying to deal with his behaviour tbh. But I think I thought at the time that NC was a final act of giving up hope for any kind of reconnection or any day when my h would be normal again...so I probably couldn't do it until I was so exhausted that I simply no longer cared much about what was going on with him if that makes sense.

Looking back, I honestly wish in my situation that I had chosen to do it much earlier. Or at least, if not full NC to go very Dark indeed.

What NC gave me though?
I did not realise how I had adapted to living with a sense of unsafety and anticipating the next WTF hand grenade until I had NC.
I did not realise how every weird email or random event like watchgate or policegate (TM) lol had kept me hooked to his rollercoaster even just a bit or had triggered a 'why/what is he doing' kind of activity in my head bc I was speculating in order to assess the level of risk/threat.
I did not realise that contact, any kind of contact, kept him in my life/head virtually and vice versa.
I did not realise that contact, even sporadic, fed my grief, expectations and disbelief.

I do remember the moment though when I knew beyond any doubt that I hated living feeling as I did and that the crazy nasty folks showed no sign of running out of steam, so if I wanted a life without crazy nasty, NC was my only sane choice.
I still think that for me it was a wise sane choice.
Looking back, if I had been able to emotionally detach quicker and more effectively, I may not have needed NC...but I couldn't, the crazy s$it was damaging me profoundly so NC was a good choice bc it took me off the battlefield. And life feels a lot more normal off the battlefield 

In my case, my xh said he wanted me to let him go.
I reached a point when I did with as much grace as I could and then got frustrated bc he wouldn't actually entirely go away lol. With NC - and I changed addresses, emails, phone etc - I got to make a choice for me, a little control finally. And if my xh ever feels that this is not what he wanted - and tbh even in the loopy days, he didn't plan that we would never talk again or think I would shut the door firmly on him strange as that sounds in the circumstances, he actually said so....well, I guess he gets to learn from his own choices doesn't he?
But NC at its heart I think is that I started caring a great deal about the consequences for me and to shrug my shoulders at the consequences for anyone else. NC is like refusing to even buy a ticket for someone else's circus isn't it? 

But my POV is from someone who decided to stop Standing after about 18 months or so.
Perhaps it is different if you are Standing?
Still, I think there are times when going Dark or a short period of NC can be useful to detach a little or calm things down or unhook from the rollercoaster.
NC is maybe a bit like Standing?
Doesn't have to be a fixed rigid life state....can just be a 'today I choose to and tomorrow I might choose differently' thing perhaps?

[Treasur]

PS another realisation linked to NC...I was/am too gobby to drink the STFU smoothie easily and I was too vulnerable bc of other events to not see myself as a victim. Changing both might have reduced the need for NC. And, a weird memory, in contact with my then h between Jan-April 2018 ( when he was quite loopy tbh)...I was very aware that I had not seen him since Oct 2016 or spoken to him for about 6 months I think....he behaved as if we had seen each other quite recently. It was odd. But maybe NC/chronology simply doesn't feel the same to them as it does to us...

I also think with hindsight that reducing contact got much easier when I got more honest with myself about WHY I was initiating or responding. Bc tbh my motivations were often far from objective or clean.

[Velika]

I went no contact about eight months in, and recommend it for most LBS, especially if they are dealing with an abusive type who has moved out and who is being disrespectful, antagonizing them, or harming them (or they feel could harm them) emotionally or physically.

I want to say, though, that I think some of the MLCers on this forum have some form of mental illness, on the schizophrenia/bipolar specrum.

If you have young children or feel there is a chance you could enlist the help of others around you to get medical attention for your spouse, I would try hard to see the abuse as a symptom of the disease and not give up on trying to get a diagnoses — while in some form of low/no contact.

In other words, do not throw out the baby with the bathwater! Really try to look at your spouse's behavior and personal and family medical history through the lens of known mental illness, and if they match up, don't sit around and wait for them to go through "stages" of MLC. Try to be proactive and use the correct language to get them help — while staying dim/low contact, written only — or at least to protect yourself and your children.

A family/child therapist or your children's school might be inclined to ignore you if you say that you think your spouse is having a crisis. But if you say that you are concerned they have bipolar or schizophrenia, with the correct language, I think that some of them will not ignore, even if their sole motivation is fear of a lawsuit.

[Bewildered survivor]

....he behaved as if we had seen each other quite recently. It was odd. But maybe NC/chronology simply doesn't feel the same to them as it does to us...

Treasure this fits with what they say about them losing time & often not being aware of time when in replay. Also what I’ve seen with my xH just in how he makes mistakes in legal documents about when things have happened. He contradicts himself and writes different dates in different places. Also talks to the kids as if they are still the same age as when he walked out over 2 years ago. I can totally imagine xH wouldn’t have a clue how much time we’ve been no contact in his confused foggy state of mind.