[OneHotMess]

I went no contact about eight months in, and recommend it for most LBS, especially if they are dealing with an abusive type who has moved out and who is being disrespectful, antagonizing them, or harming them (or they feel could harm them) emotionally or physically.

I want to say, though, that I think some of the MLCers on this forum have some form of mental illness, on the schizophrenia/bipolar specrum.

If you have young children or feel there is a chance you could enlist the help of others around you to get medical attention for your spouse, I would try hard to see the abuse as a symptom of the disease and not give up on trying to get a diagnoses — while in some form of low/no contact.

In other words, do not throw out the baby with the bathwater! Really try to look at your spouse's behavior and personal and family medical history through the lens of known mental illness, and if they match up, don't sit around and wait for them to go through "stages" of MLC. Try to be proactive and use the correct language to get them help — while staying dim/low contact, written only — or at least to protect yourself and your children.

A family/child therapist or your children's school might be inclined to ignore you if you say that you think your spouse is having a crisis. But if you say that you are concerned they have bipolar or schizophrenia, with the correct language, I think that some of them will not ignore, even if their sole motivation is fear of a lawsuit.

I agree with you on this but be careful to protect yourself in the process. In my situation, I considered the x had some mental illness early on from his mother’s death and did ask his family for help. Unfortunately, those people took advantage of the situation. The cousin decided to start a relationship with him so he could support her and her family. I then offered up my therapy notes to his therapist to allow them to see both sides of the story hoping to help push them to see what I seen. Unfortunately, he had stopped therapy shortly before that. My therapist agreed something was not right with him and believed this would have helped her colleague to diagnose him.  I was able to get the judge to order him into therapy but that backfired too. He went in just bashing me and had his therapist right a note to the judge with all of that info.

 When you deal with someone like this, going as no contact as you can is the best thing for you. The mlcer can only get help if they acknowledge that they need help and really want to get help.

[OneHotMess]

I also want to note here. Going no contact for me and my situation gave us time to calm everything down. After about a year of putting my boundaries in place, we are able to be civil at school functions.last school function, we almost actually had a conversation.  It is impossible to go completely no contact with children involved. What I did was refuse text unless an emergency and communicate through email. I had to cut out texting because he couldn’t help himself to bash me every single time. Email makes it more of a business deal and can be used more easily in court if need to. I have a court order that lists in detail exactly when and where we exchange kids. Going no contact helps you not them.

[in it]

That's right..you aren't going no contact trying to punish them.
It can give you the peace and the time to get your head on straight and for emotions to get less intense.
If anyone is dealing or trying to deal with the crazy making and hasn't tried NC yet..maybe for the upcoming holiday give yourself the gift of peace and try it.
Yes then maybe you can set how communication is resumed. Email is great because you do have something you can print out and use.

[Yellowroseoftexas]

Not sure this is the right place to mention this...........

During the year husband and I have had lots of contact.  Most very positive but planned by me or our children, never him. He was always willing to be a part of the plans but didn't contribute money, just enjoying the FREE food. 

Thanksgiving our girls asked him to spend the day with us, his......family (remember that).  He agreed.  However, he show up at 8 pm.  Oldest daughter asked why he was so late.  Husband tells her, "I was with my family".  I couldn't believe this father of 3 kids would tell all 3 of the kids, he was with his..........FAMILY.  Well, who the heck are they? I was beyond angry.  Guys, without an explanation I left.  I couldn't "play" family with him.  I spent the rest of the evening with a friend.  Came home the next morning without telling anyone where/who I was with. 

Fast forward to Christmas.  I texted all 3 of our children (S26, D23 and D20) and told them I would not be available Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.  They assume I'm with a male companion, I'm not but didn't tell anyone different.  So, dad is making plans to host Christmas at his house for them. 

I'm not sure this is the right way to do it but I have to go no contact or maybe dark.  He was putting me back in a peace-less place that was becoming dark.  My journey started in 2014 and frankly I'm tired.  I'm tired of being treated like a nobody and after thought.  I thought I was paving the way but maybe he was using me. 

Any thoughts, comments or even a 2X4.............help a sister out. 

Oh, I went out on a date a couple of weeks ago.  Didn't like the guy but he said something that made me think.  He asked why someone hasn't scooped me up because I am a beautiful woman.  When he looked at me I felt like a woman.  For a long time I thought I was invisible.  I'm re-examining my worth. 

[Velika]

He is acting this way because he can’t emotionally connect. He is no longer neurotypical. What this means is that if we have emotional — or even etiquette — expectations we are bound to be disappointed.

He is not saying family in the way you or I might. He is just bumbling along. I am a similar timeline to you. I’m sure my ex would be very much like yours is now, just kind of there, unreflectively participating.

And of course you are beautiful! I encourage you to keep dating if it feels right. Big hugs.

[Treasur]

Could be a bunch of reasons from forgetfulness to the kind of regression that means he sees his birth family as 'his family' as opposed to you and your kids as 'his family' now that you are divorced. And as V says, that missing empathy chip that meant he saw no reason to inform anyone but just turn up late. Idk. When you feel calmer, you may want to discuss it with him or with your kids.

What strikes me though is the strength of your feeling and reaction, Yellow. Which is not a criticism just an observation. The strength of it suggests to me that it was about more than just that one incident and represented something important to you. Do you know what that was? Did you have some expectation that has been unmet? Bc of course you had other possible choices ranging from idk yelling at him, showing him the door bc he was late, saying you would not invite him again if he did not meet normal social rules like turning up on time, ignoring it......but you chose to get up and leave without even telling your kids where you were going which tells me you felt very strongly indeed. And now to be unavailable to spend Christmas with your own kids.

Again no criticism, just respecting your truth.
I'd encourage you to breathe and reflect on what your feeling is really about bc your xh broke a big boundary for you didn't he? And, ignoring him for the moment, it is probably healthy for you to be able to at least discuss that openly with your kids who may have no idea what you are feeling.

I suspect fwiw from the cheap seats that your feeling was one built up over a period of time and this was just a 'straw that broke the camels back' moments. Something about feeling used maybe? Or disrespected? Or not much liking who he is now or feeling uncomfortable around him? Or unfinished business old feelings? Idk. But your sense that his presence affects your sense of peace is telling you something useful probably that you might need to work out in order to set different boundaries.

Something made your fight/flight system want to run away....what was it?

Limiting contact - and that is your right of course - is an action to preserve a boundary.
And it is a spectrum from NC through Dark and Dim to contact with specific constraints like place or time or type. Lots of choices there.

But maybe what matters first is figuring out what boundary was broken so you can decide on a better one. If only bc it involves your adult kids and your relationship with them is more important than your xh I'd guess. And bc you can still redesign Christmas in some way that includes your kids, your family, but excludes him if you want to do that.

It's ok to feel how you feel. And it's ok to do whatever you want to do about seeing or not seeing someone who is now your xh. Your kids are adults and can have a separate relationship which does not need to include you.

But looking in from the outside it seems likely that you will feel better if you can figure out how you feel so you can at least discuss it calmly with your kids and share your new boundaries with them. What would bring back that sense of peace, Yellow? Whatever it is, do that and explain it to your kids. Jmo.

[Milly]

Yellow, I think Treasur and Velika gave really good advice. I would second that telling your kids is very important, and second, I would have told your H straight out what was not acceptable to you.

I suspect that your H turning up at 8pm was a regression, a childish behaviour. His excuse that he was with his family was an immature excuse he thought would get him out of being in the wrong. Like a kid, he might probably needs to be told right out that he was disrespectful and insensitive.

Your kids though are not the problem and they just really want the holidays to be good. We all do even now, but remember when you were young how important these holidays feel and you certainly want to have your parents be part of them. I would talk to your kids about how you felt on Thansgiving night that made you leave. They can't just work it out, we do need to let them know. I say this as someone who used to not say how she was feeling.

[Yellowroseoftexas]

I appreciate everyone's comments.  I want the bitter truth rather than a sweet lie. 

I think his casual attitude when he arrived. Kindof like THE SPECIAL GUEST is in the building gracing everyone with his presence.  He was also somewhat dodgey (is that a word?) with his answers.   His lack of accountability to daughter's questions created more internal issues. 

On my end...........EXPECTATIONS.  I had built a beautiful picture of a a Thanksgiving with our entire family, together.  The last Thanksgiving spent together was 2013.  I went out of my way to make it special.  My feelings were hurt.   I felt unappreciated.  Not sure if any of this is his fault.  It's me not managing expectations.  I struggle with this one. 

Let's discuss Christmas.  I'm not sure I can trust myself to manage expectations so in an effort to protect myself from slipping further into the dark place I removed myself from the equation.

Will I discuss it with husband? I'm not sure at this point.  I have been told by many people in hard to read.  Husband says I always seem "unconcerned" and show very little emotions.  He pr think I'm hard to figure out and I think he's............an immature knucklehead. 

[Treasur]

Ok, all of that makes perfect sense.
You thought he acted in an entitled way, more me me and his response to quite reasonable questions was dodgy (yes it is a word lol)....and you also recognise that, reasonably or not, you had some expectations of a type of family Thankgiving that you had put a lot of effort into. So you felt hurt and unappreciated.

And you have the maturity to see that some of this was about you and some of it about his behaviour. Bc worth remembering that it is NORMAL if you invite someone for the day and they turn up at 8pm as if they are doing you a favour, without letting anyone know or being full of heartfelt apologies and a pretty good explanation? You are going to think they are a disrespectful rude a$$hole in normal life right?

I am very sorry that Thanksgiving did not go the way you hoped it would.

So it sounds as if those darned expectations are the killer app for you about Christmas?
Is there an option that allows you to spend time with your kids but excludes having to see your xh, Yellow? Fwiw it sounds as if it might be more useful at least to talk about how you feel with your kids rather than your xh....bc he is currently an immature self-centred MLC knucklehead isn't he?

[in it]

You must be a saint because if he showed up at 8 pm on Thanksgiving and it had been me? He would have gotten an earful. Totally inconsiderate of him.
Make your Christmas plans and don't include him.
He might notice or not.
This isn't worth your peace I can tell you that much.