[Anjae]

Not fearful of leaving..... that's when the addiction (replay starts) the fun, excitement 
   its the coming out of it that  is hard.  when you are close to bottom    or at bottom   that's when the fear comes in .    or is it just easier to continue the addiction life then do the hard work    hope that makes better sense

It does.

[One day at a time]

Great topic!! And one that should hopefully be helpful for newbies. I'm only 18 months in but I no longer consider myself a newbie    I have learnt so much over the past few months!!

1. What does Detachment mean for you personally?  To me detachment is pretty similar to the definition in Acorn's first post. It's about creating the space to be able to react rationally to other people's feelings and emotions rather than being derailed by them. It's to be able to observe other people's emotions and feelings without feeling the need to fix them or change them.

2. What did you do to gain a measure of it? This was very hard but essentially I convinced myself that my H REALLY REALLY wanted me to let him go and the most loving thing I could do was to respect his wishes, despite being completely contrary to what I wanted.. I resigned myself to the idea that I couldn't stop him or his crisis and I couldn't make him love me again.. So I set him free, I stopped contacting him unless it was completely necessary and I asked him to do the same. I always kept the contact cordial, light and friendly but he wanted me out of his life so that's what I gave him. It's still a struggle at times but it gets easier as time goes by.

3. What positives did Detachment bring you? An enormous amount of peace! It was liberating.. It really did show me that staying away from the roller-coaster meant I could start picking up the pieces of my life and start getting things under control... even enjoy some aspects of my life. I'm not indifferent to H's crisis, I have a lot of empathy, love and compassion for him but I don't necessarily do anything about it. It made me understand the concept of being the lighthouse. 

I think detachment has to be a conscious effort. It's about choosing not to engage in the emotional drama of the MLCer.. At the beginning it's impossible but as we start understanding MLC and all the behaviors that come with it, we can start learning to take a deep breath and not let it get to us (Easier said than done but practice, practice, practice)

I think it's easier to detach with certain type of MLCers though.. If you have a live-in or a clinging boomerang, the constant contact will probably delay the detachment process.. I have neither, my wallower completely withdrew from me, I could see he was conflicted only on occasion so that made my detachment a lot easier.

[hopeandfaith]

Great thread Acorn, thank you.

I would like to put a 'like' on One day at a time's response because I agree with everything she said.

1) From your first post I also felt drawn to;
This detachment does not necessarily mean avoiding empathy; rather it allows the person space needed to rationally choose whether or not to be overwhelmed or manipulated by such feelings.
Maybe this is also what Treasur means when she talks of seeing her own wood/trees.

2) I have slowly learnt to accept that this is H's journey and there is no 'better' way toward enlightenment.  My alcoholic yoga teacher (sober 25 years) is a living example of the fact that the road to personal freedom is sometimes really ugly.  In seeking detachment I have chosen to attend Al-Anon, see an IC and read.  My new fave book is "Women who love too much". HIGHLY RECOMMEND.

3) I have gained a measure of peace and self love too.  I now also realise that I display 'isms' too and that Al-Anon is a good place for me to be.  Many of us are fixers from way back.  What are we avoiding looking at in ourselves that makes it easy to focus so much on our MLCers.  This is our opportunity to indulge in some brave introspection. My AA friend told me that they used to love the night when the Al-Anon meeting was held next door because they always brought great food!!

[Rollercoasterider]

Thank you, everyone, for your comments.
Thunder brought up another point to discuss.  Now we have 3 points.

In summary, these are the questions we are dealing with in regards to Detachment.

1. What does Detachment mean for you personally?  (In your own words or a quote that best describes your thoughts)
2. What did you do to gain a measure of it?
3. What positives did Detachment bring you? (Prompted by Thunder.  Thank you!)

What does Detachment mean for you personally?
Here is the definition I wrote

Detachment
An emotional level wherein your emotions are no longer intertwined with someone else's emotions and actions; it is a detachment from the ego and its emotional reactions and not a disconnection from the core person within. It creates a gap between the emotions of individuals, thereby allowing the freedom to release to and embrace one's emotions without concern of the effect on others, or without feeling guilty for someone else's reaction. Detachment returns power to each personal core.

I have always known there are problems with that definition even though it rings true for me. It often feels too academic or clinical and thus may be difficult for many to understand.
Acorn, I love the definition you use, what is your source/where did you find it? It feels like mine, but seems easier to understand.

Emotional detachment is a decision to avoid engaging emotional connections, rather than an inability or difficulty in doing so.  In this sense it can allow people to maintain boundaries, psychic integrity and avoid undesired impact by or upon others, related to emotional demands.  As such, it is a deliberate mental attitude which avoids engaging the emotions of others.

This detachment does not necessarily mean avoiding empathy; rather it allows the person space needed to rationally choose whether or not to be overwhelmed or manipulated by such feelings.

What did you do to gain a measure of it?
Yoga
Meditation
Prayer
Hypnotherapy—specifically requested detachment
Chose Peace
Chose Joy
Acceptance of MLC
Not something I did, but something that helped… I had a firm belief in the outcome from my Knowing and could thus let go of wondering what was going to happen to my marriage. The challenge was not knowing how or when!
I also did focus a lot on my MLCer. His being a Clinging Boomerang probably enabled that, but I deliberately focused on him and/or on MLC, struggling with many of my actions as feeling right for me even though they were not what I would recommend for others. Do what I say and not what I do did not feel fair when I was advising!

What positives did Detachment bring you?
Let me wander for a minute…
Yesterday I was thinking of my best friend Lingy—okay, I think of her all the time because she is forever in my heart. Lingy and I met through Jim Conway’s chat and learned we were lived less than an hour apart. She was in my life from late 2005 until her death at the end of 2009, a mere 4 years which spanned Chuck’s MLC. She died only a few months after I moved home after our last year of separation in prep for a full reconciliation.
The positive detachment brought me is that I was able to choose, accept and embrace joy even as a Left Behind Spouse. My friendship with Lingy was like no other. She was a little sister to me—one who happened to be 20 years older than me! My love for her is and was full and complete even while I was experiencing loss and upheaval.

I just recalled an incident that sums up what detachment means for me. I went back and found the post where I talked about it from late 2017. Here's the relevant part. I recall at the time I was washing dishes and I continued to wash dishes and barely even turn my head to look at him through the whole encounter:

MIL had a new chicken coop built. In the evening I told him I didn't like it.

The next day he tried provoking me in about 2 or 3 different ways, and failed to get a rise out of me. So he came and shouted at me, "If you don't like the chicken coop, you can leave!" I said, "Why would I leave? I mean it's not like I am living in the chicken coop." He said, "I told you before, leave!" I just burst out laughing and he left the room frustrated.

As an aside, he tore down the NEW chicken coop and built a better, bigger one last year. At one point he threatened to make me live in it. 

To me being able to laugh at the absurdity instead of taking it personally and feeling hurt by it is an ideal litmus test for detachment. It also can throw an MLCer off kilter and be a momentary breakthrough for them since our response is so unexpected.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You cannot will yourself to detach, which is why I find the advice to detach so discouraging. Detaching is something that will happen to you eventually without you trying, not something you do. I'd rather people be told that detachment is a state you will eventually reach and it will bring you relief once you do. Otherwise you are just frustrating people and making them feel like failures because they will NOT detach quickly in most cases. I've reached that state but even now I cannot tell you how or when, just that it's a destination you reach, not a process you must follow to get there. Therefore, I think that I would have to disagree with that definition you posted above because it seems to suggest that it is something you can turn on and off like a light switch.

I do not really agree, but find this interesting and you make a point.
If we are focusing on detachment with extreme effort and energy, then are we attached to the outcome of detachment? Irony!

In the beginning I thought I had trouble with detachment and was publicly resistant. I told everyone I did not believe in it. Jim Conway validated this for me and told me to Surrender instead. Well, Surrender is certainly important, but I now understand it as a higher state of release than detachment. Now, looking back I don’t think I actually had a big problem with detachment, I was doing it without calling it anything. Part of my official resistance was not understanding what it is…like many I associated it with disconnecting myself from Chuck—severing not my emotions from his, but those emotional ties that hold souls together—not just romantic.

I did Fake It To Make It and Chuck did notice, asking why I was acting that way—so perky. So I was honest with him, I told him it was a coping mechanism that was necessary for me to face each day. Well, I was not always so honest if the perkiness was meant for him rather than simply for my coping. Fake it ‘Til you make it does not have to be about fake perkiness and pretending everything is fine, it can simple be a form of professional compartmentalization. If you go on a job interview (or simply to work), are you going to get emotional, cry on the person who is now not likely to be your new boss, tell them your problems…? Interview Mode can be a form of Fake It ‘Til you make it.

The time I often recall when I did not let him see behind my façade was when he was first moving out of the house and our neighbor-friend was there helping him move. Chuck said something to him about how I was acting—not a complaint, but wondering about my cheeriness. A few minutes later while Chuck was out at the car I stopped our friend and I was visibly shaking and said “you know it’s fake, right.” He was a good friend and said he knew and later gave me a book that was quite helpful. Though he was helping Chuck move his stuff, he was always a supporter of my Stand.

As a writer and coach I have struggled with how to explain detachment and offer practical steps. I do have a Practical Applications to Detachment article that is part of my manuscript, but for me it does not sing like I want it to, rather it is one of those parts that is just a check box for having included Detachment. One of the difficulties is whether to merge or include or how to discuss the different detachments—the Buddhist idea along with Emotional Detachment.

[megogirl]

Not something I did, but something that helped… I had a firm belief in the outcome from my Knowing and could thus let go of wondering what was going to happen to my marriage. The challenge was not knowing how or when!

RCR, I have the same belief/intuitive "Knowing."  Always have, always will.

Thank you X a million for alerting me to know I am *not crazy* for feeling this way. 

The challenge is trying to counterbalance our "Knowing" with the mantra, "Live like he's never coming back."  How can/do we accomplish both?

Thank you again, for EVERYTHING. 

You're doing God's work....every day.   

[OffRoad]

Detachment to me was the realization that whatever XH felt or did had no bearing on how I needed to live my life. He was a bug in a terrarium. Mind you, I actually had a bug in a terrarium (4th grade project for my son that was supposed to last 2 months) that lived 2 years because even though I was not emotionally attached to it, nothing in my care or my kids care will be neglected.

How did i achieve a measure of it? A little at a time, as i observed his behavior  and modified my own.  I set boundaries that if he crossed, he got the consequences. He only tried crossing a few times. He knew i meant what i said. Really, what did i have to lose by taking care of me?  And while I filled my life with distractions until I could separate my outcome from XHs outcome, I still did laundry and made meals and was couteous and kind and asked about his day. My detachment came when I decided to be in charge of me. It started a few months after BD, but I wasn't fully detached until nearly 2 years in. So it was a decision and a process and time for me.

How did I gain a measure of it? It started with finding distractions from the hurt. Driving off road with people who actually cared if I lived or died, unlike XH seemed to be. Coloring. Hiking. Anything I enjoyed that gave me true pleasure, if only for a short time. There was no fake it till you make it for me. There was find what I like and do that for me to get to my destination. But I know that about me. I'm not good at pretending, but I am good at finding something real I like.  It's amazing what driving through dangerous terrain with complete strangers who treat you better than your own husband does will do for your mental state. As I found my personal center, I could step back and look at my XH as an interesting thing to observe, because that guy was not my husband. So I could still care about this new guy in my husbands shell, but my love was not for him. I would never have given this guy a second glance.

And here I am today. I stood until. My until was the divorce. As far as I'm concerned, I did everything I could think of to save my martiage since he was home for 18 months,  but he had his own plan in place to file for divorce as soon as S turned 18 so he wouldn't have to pay child support. So I'm good with how it played out, but I was a lucky one. I could support myself and the kids, I had enough time to completely detach before divorce.

 The guy XH is now is no one I want in my life. Might he become someone I would? Maybe. And that's how I know I'm detached. I don't want to talk to him just like I don't want to talk to other people who disrepect me. But I don't rule anything out if he should ever approach me with any intent of getting back together and if I were still attached, I don't think I could get past his prior actions. I would like to believe there will be consequences for his actions, but if there aren't any, meh!  I have too much gong on in my own life to care about that. Should he call and ask for help, I will still give it expecting nothing in return. He's still a bug in a terrarium right now. Interesting if I see him do something, no matter to me if I don't.

[Anjae]

For many years I had the knowing. Like RCR did not knew when or how. Then the knowing vanished. I don't know why, but it did. I still think Mr J will come out of his MLC, but that is all. My love for him also vanished. Again, I don't know why.

I believe in MLC and accept Mr J is having one. I become more and more joyful since I cut contact with MLC more and more.

The it is not personal does not apply when there is physical violence, court cases in which the MLCer keeps taking the MLCer to court for this, that and those and MLCers who deliberately try/want to destroy the LBS. It is personal. For some reason the MLCer does really see the LBS has an enemy that must be eliminated. It has to do with the MLCer, but it is a personal attack on the LBS.

We should be more vigilant with those type of MLCers since they are quite dangerous. The advice for LBS with those MLCers has to be a little different, especially when it comes to the LBS safety. Those MLCers also leave scars and a trail of issues other MLCers do not.

Mr J has been providing laughs for over a decade. The latest is him in a DJ photo with a t-shirt that read "Mess is More". You bet. His MLC t-shirts have been amusing. There was the baby pink one with the bright neon logo three sizes too small, the "I have battles in my heart" (Battles are a band, but, still ...), and countless others. There has been glassless him, blind as a mole, crossing the capital's trafic and ranting mad at buses, cars, people. His social crusader phase with matching ranting, the horrible clubbing music he plays, etc.

Crisis Mr J is not someone I want in my life. If he become someone I would? I don't know. Not a problem I have to worry about. If Mr J calls asking for my help and will tell him to call SIL or his non-MLC best friend. There is nothing I can help him with that SIL or his non-MLC best friend will not be able to help him.
 

[Treasur]

I wonder if, as RCR says, there are actually different kinds of detachment.
And we reach them at different stages in our own situation and our own progress.
Of course the detachment challenges are different too with different 'types' of MLC behaviours.

What seems clear is that most of us struggle with it, understanding what we should be aiming for and if we are doing it 'right'. So, this thread is a really useful discussion for LBS at all stages.

Maybe RCR that lurking chapter needs a dust off 

I know that there was a time when I couldn't let go but I could let it be.
And that having less contact made it much easier to detach emotionally from the MLC stuff
And that detaching from the MLC version of my h has always felt easier than emotionally detaching from the person I used to know, the 'core person' as RCR calls it....but less contact makes it easier to doubt if the core person still exists in there at all too which is sometimes confusing.

My recollection is that detachment sort of creeps up on you unawares...that you suddenly feel it and go 'oh look, that's that detachment thing I've read about, nice' 

[Anjae]

Less contact making it harder to know if the real person still exists ... Maybe, maybe not. I had tons of close, too close, contact with Mr J after BD and for a few years afterwards. At times it was hard, if not impossibke, to see the real him. Very early on, when he was getting deeper into the tunnel, his old self would still show a lot, then MLC monster would come up, then MLC depressed person was present. At times within minutes.

Then, the core person showed less and less. With barely any contact, at times there is a version a little closer to who he was, other times the nasty MLC self shows. Is the real he/the core person still somewhere in threre? I don't know. The main difference is that, with very little contact I don't have to deal with the constant changes and drama.

[Treasur]

Good point, Anjae.
Seems to me that often it is our exhaustion with the relentless drama that pushes us into really detaching.