Author Topic: Discussion What does Liminality Actually Look Like?  (Read 1878 times)

Offline shopgirl

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Discussion Re: What does Liminality Actually Look Like?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2019, 12:37:12 PM »
Best description I have read is lawprofessor's posts about her friend J.
She was clear both about how awful it was for him and how important it was for her to say/do little but keep her own boundaries solid.

Hi Treasur,

Do you have a link to this?  I'm very curious!  Thanks!
M: 43
H: 42
Married: 20 yrs
D19 & S18
Discovered ow 19 months ago, had been going on for 8 months prior- at this point, I believe ow is gone.
Was in replay for 32 months (approx)
Lived at home until 11 months ago- now lives in his office and sleeps in a sleeping bag.  Has moved back in & out 3 times, is showing the desire to be with me & the kids as a family, just not strong enough to do it yet.
Depression & Withdrawal are evident and come & go.  When they aren't as heavy, he is in continuous contact with me, when they engulf him, he is a hermit and talks to no-one.  I've seen a pattern on 4 days "on", 4 days "off"... He has been consistent in this for a little over two months.

Offline EnoughTopic starter

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Re: What does Liminality Actually Look Like?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2019, 06:07:54 AM »
Hi Shopgirl-- I was curious as well-- you can find her posts by going to the Members link at the top and searching for the name lawprofessor, no space, then click on her posts-- the name of her thread that I started reading was "Law Professor's First Year since BD or God has a Wicked Sense of Humor."  This woman is an absolute ROCK STAR.  She has been through the ringer and then some, and I have only read a very small part of her posts.  She has 2 MLCers-- one is her husband and I about fell out of my chair reading that one, and the one that is mentioned about being a good example of actual liminality is "J" her childhood friend that she has watched and supported during his MLC-- I am only one thread in and I am floored.  lawprofessor-- you are a strong woman and I absolutely admire you courage and tenacity.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 06:17:16 AM by Enough »

Offline shopgirl

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Re: What does Liminality Actually Look Like?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2019, 09:06:54 AM »
Thank you, Enough!  I’ll look her up!
M: 43
H: 42
Married: 20 yrs
D19 & S18
Discovered ow 19 months ago, had been going on for 8 months prior- at this point, I believe ow is gone.
Was in replay for 32 months (approx)
Lived at home until 11 months ago- now lives in his office and sleeps in a sleeping bag.  Has moved back in & out 3 times, is showing the desire to be with me & the kids as a family, just not strong enough to do it yet.
Depression & Withdrawal are evident and come & go.  When they aren't as heavy, he is in continuous contact with me, when they engulf him, he is a hermit and talks to no-one.  I've seen a pattern on 4 days "on", 4 days "off"... He has been consistent in this for a little over two months.

Offline Keep believing

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Re: What does Liminality Actually Look Like?
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2019, 02:32:13 AM »
I still can't find it   would you mind linking the thread only with her description of liminality    thanks

Offline Silver

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Re: What does Liminality Actually Look Like?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2019, 01:07:24 AM »
Few questions or more like thoughts I have had (and to bump this thread up)

If there isn't a stage that can be seen as liminality, in several years, like any forms of overt depression be seen that are distincly different from replay cycling, which is more likely option:

- it never wasn't MLC after all?
- replay is going on for a very long period?

If midlife spouse seems to be happy with her/his choices and it has been years since divorce or the point she/he left LBS, obviously it would at least to me rise a question "was I wrong all the time, what if it WAS about me in the end"

No one has correct answer I guess and my intention is not question MLC theories, no way. But I know that these are kind of questions many other may have too and liminality is so much more rare topic than replay for obvious reasons. That's why I hope this thread would get more attention.
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Offline hope2018

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Re: What does Liminality Actually Look Like?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2019, 04:08:50 AM »
Few questions or more like thoughts I have had (and to bump this thread up)

If there isn't a stage that can be seen as liminality, in several years, like any forms of overt depression be seen that are distincly different from replay cycling, which is more likely option:

- it never wasn't MLC after all?
- replay is going on for a very long period?

If midlife spouse seems to be happy with her/his choices and it has been years since divorce or the point she/he left LBS, obviously it would at least to me rise a question "was I wrong all the time, what if it WAS about me in the end"

No one has correct answer I guess and my intention is not question MLC theories, no way. But I know that these are kind of questions many other may have too and liminality is so much more rare topic than replay for obvious reasons. That's why I hope this thread would get more attention.

Thanks for bumping this thread. I have a couple of thoughts/questions. You mentioned “it’s been years since divorce.” Do you really see what is truly going on with your ex? How do you know overt depression is not present. I believe they can still wear a mask. Another question, maybe the spouse feels as if there is no way to turn back to you since he/she divorced you. Sometimes the shame and guilt is to much that they just leave you alone because they have hurt you so much.

You have great questions and it seems you are still standing for your marriage. How long ago was BD?
BD1 9/10/2016 Not happy, this isn’t working
BD2 9/24/2017 I care about you, but not in love with you - moved out
OW1 confirmed 8/2017 - ended 2/2018
OW2 confirmed 5/30/2018, ended 2/23/2019
H lost his job 7/23/2018
H started new job 12/17/2018

Offline Silver

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Re: What does Liminality Actually Look Like?
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2019, 04:34:59 AM »
Hi hope, thanks for commenting.
I am not seeing myself as stander anymore, and I didn't refer to my journey in "years since divorce" either. I am more like interested in this subject in genereal and for some part yes, because I like the idea that I could one day get answers to my XW's case. One of the reasons I keep asking "why" is that I have divorced twice and in my 1st D I saw myself as one to blame (though it was also about my 1st W's QLC I think) and for this second one, I don't. My XW has gone trough all the 1st stages, even the pre MLC phase with very obvious triggers etc that I haven't really doubt if it is MLC or not. But atm as she decided to get engaged with OM, I started to think that maybe this is excactly what she was after and what makes her happy. If that was the case, then wouldn't it be something totally different than I ever thought it would?

My BD was 2 years ago and divorce happened at Jan 2018, not very long time ago, things just happened very fast in my case.

"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Offline Thunder

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Re: What does Liminality Actually Look Like?
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 04:53:30 AM »
Yes yours did go fast.  I forget it's only been 2 years for you.
I highly doubt you would see any kind of movement with your XW this soon, Silver.

She's most likely still in replay and trying anything to feel better inside.  Hey maybe if I marry him it will do the trick.   ::)
Remember they wear masks.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: What does Liminality Actually Look Like?
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2019, 04:56:49 AM »
Few questions or more like thoughts I have had (and to bump this thread up)

If there isn't a stage that can be seen as liminality, in several years, like any forms of overt depression be seen that are distincly different from replay cycling, which is more likely option:

- it never wasn't MLC after all?
- replay is going on for a very long period?

If midlife spouse seems to be happy with her/his choices and it has been years since divorce or the point she/he left LBS, obviously it would at least to me rise a question "was I wrong all the time, what if it WAS about me in the end"

No one has correct answer I guess and my intention is not question MLC theories, no way. But I know that these are kind of questions many other may have too and liminality is so much more rare topic than replay for obvious reasons. That's why I hope this thread would get more attention.

As I understand it...although happy to be corrected...liminality is a stage of deep overt depression. The bit after 'oh my God, what have i done' and 'OMG, what a mess...and I am still not happy, I have no idea what to do'. If you live with them or have regular contact, you will see them withdraw into depression and it is best to leave them be. (Maybe Acorn or others with live ins might comment if they have seen this.) from what I have read, they fight against going there bc it is horrific. I guess some come out with decisions that they can't go back so have to dig in more or whatever new happy they have chosen, so as LBS we simply might never see it or know. But liminality does seem to be the very deep pit they have been running so hard to avoid, plus they have the damage they have caused on top of it, so if they get there I would imagine it would be pretty grim.

I guess it depends how much contact you have as to whether you see it or not. If you don't? Well I guess either of these could be true or it could just be that they keep the mask firmly on with you, I suppose. But even if it wasn't MLC, just standard cheating stuff, it still wasn't about you Silver imho. Your w had a bunch of different choices; she just chose poorly at the expense of her h and family and put everything on one bet...
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Anjae

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Re: What does Liminality Actually Look Like?
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2019, 09:20:41 AM »
LP (Lawprofessor) did not document her friend J Liminality is a single post or thread. She documented it in several posts on her threads or other threads.

Liminality is when, for High Energy MLCers, the cover depression turns into full blown over depression. It tends to come with, or right after, rock bottom. Like all MLC stages, aside from Reintegration and advanced Rebirth, it will still have signs of the previous stage, Separation where Replay is included.

Liminality will not be identical for every single MLCer.

It may take many years, over a decade even, for a MLCer to reach Liminality. Each MLCer is different.


RCR articles and blog posts on Liminality and Limbo:


https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_liminality.html - MLC Phase 2: Liminality

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_liminality_transition-is-liminal.html - Transition is Liminal

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_liminality_when-is-liminality.html - When is Liminality?

https://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/midlife-crisis-and-infidelity/liminality-questions-answers/ - Liminality: Questions & Answers

https://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/midlife-crisis-and-infidelity/intermittent-liminality/ - Intermittent Liminality



https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_progress_back-limbo-forward.html - Back-Limbo-Forward--Repeat

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_progress_back-limbo-forward_limbo.html - Limbo

https://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/midlife-crisis-and-infidelity/limbo-the-threshold-between-phases/ - Limbo: The Threshold Between Phases


Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

 

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