[Anjae]

Could you please stop being the HS gestapo?

I’m sorry, you said what?
This is totally unacceptable. 
You need to apologize to Anjae and all those offended by your flippant use of the word ‘gestapo’.  These people were responsible for unspeakable atrocities against humanity and for sending numerous people to their death in gas chambers and by other vile means.

This comment is extremely offensive.

It is more than totally unacceptable and extremelly offensive. I have mentioned many times I have Jewish blood (as well as mourish one, just like many other Portuguese do). It would be totally unacceptable and extremely offensive to say it to anyone, to say it so someone with Jewish blood it is something else and even worst.


Discussion presupposes that some will agree and others will disagree with an argument/idea/etc.


I have sound like a broken record for years on end saying OW/OM is a sympthom of MLC, but OW/OM is a person, not a thing. The damage caused by an affair is very different than the damage cause by a MLCer buying cars, houses, etc.

An affair, MLC or not, is hurtful. No one denies that. No one ever said LBS cannot discuse the real issues and pain caused by OW/OM. People do it daily.

What people were always told is not to focus on OW/OM. In the past much more than know. They also used to be told straightforwardly that engaging with OW/OM, meddling in the MLCer's relationship with OW/OM, let alone when the MLCer is married to OW/OM is no-no.

If anything, of late LBS haven't t been told what they used to be told when it comes to OW/OM.

Regarding OW/OM that is a real danger to LBS and kids. Venting on HS about is only venting. If the OW/OM is a real danger to LBS and kids the LBS must speak to a lawyer and/or the police. LBS with small kids/underaged kids can also request sole custody of the kids if they think the MLCer is not fit to have them/is involved with someone not fit for the kids.

Or can court request the kids are not allowed to see OW/OM if OW/OM is truly a danger. No amount of name calling is going to help the LBS being safer.

As for social media, social media can be made private and it is possible to block people from seeing our social media. Sure, fake accounts can be created, but that is another matter. Same for calls/texts from OW/OM, their number can be blocked.

Make sure you always keep evidence if OW/OM, or your MLCer, does anything illegal, offensive, etc. If you have a lawyer, give the evidence to your lawyer.

[Rollercoasterider]

There is nothing wrong with the alienator as a topic of discussion. LBSs need to vent and it is part of their healing. I get that.

Anjae, first, I could not find a specific reference to name-calling on The Code of Conduct—I think it was likely there in one of my early drafts though and I mentioned name-calling as something not to do in recent posts. The Mission Statement does say that this is not a place to degrade or insult and that includes the MLC spouse.
Sure, not calling names is a good idea, but I think the problem Anjae is that you are being too literal regarding rule and looking at the letter of the law rather than the spirit. This is why I was so resistant to setting down specific rules of conduct. Yes, they are important and they protect us, but where there are rules there are police and I don’t want us to be the board police.

Those who say it’s not healthy to focus on the alienator and what does it serve you… are also right, but we need to accept the process of both MLC and of how LBSs recover. Yes, I’m all about Grace and Agape and Forgiveness, but I really hope I’m not self-righteous about it and that is what some of the complaints about this thread seem.

There are some here who are posting derogatory or name-calling sort of remarks about their MLCer or the alienator that bother me because I can see it is harmful to them and it is enabling them to remain in victim-mode, but there are many others who are not stuck in anger, but who are still using their anger as par to their healing.
For goodness sakes, I wrote about b!tc#-Mode and how venting is sometimes necessary!

I find this discussion absurd—in-fighting about whether you an have a Topic Discussion about the alienator.! Seriously people! Of course you can. It will be monitored and if it gets out of hand the mods will be here…but I really dislike even the assumption that it will get out of hand. We are adults and we can vent and talk about what we have experienced without going after each other.

[Anon]

One last post then I’m outta here.   Yet another thread blows up and diverts away from the purpose of the discussion.   

No one here can be sure their ow/om is worse than anyone else's..   They are ALL horrible in their own unique way.  It does appear some situations are more challenging than others but not every poster talks about their ow/om in the detail that other posters do.  So who knows whose got it bad and whose got it not so bad?

Something else to consider,,,many AP’s are also in crisis.   For the AP’s that are also married or otherwise in a solid R until BD, that means your H or W is the OW/OM to another devastated LBS.  We all know what our MLCers are capable of so its very likely that the other devastated LBS is name calling, venting, about YOUR husband/wife in the worse way possible.

[Anjae]

You lost me, RCR. Are we to follow your HS Code of Conduct and HS mission statement or ignore it?
Name-calling is not mentioned in the code of conduct.

Or is it a free for all? I am sorry, but spirit is not palpable, rules/codes are and you wrote them.
This could be a cultural language thing--spirit versus letter of the law is a saying here.

So, it is fine to call me gestapo, among other things, it is fine if I name call others? Because that is a clear contradiction with your own code of conduct that Xyzcf just posted.
I did not say that it was okay to call you names or anyone on this board. The topic of this thread was supposed to be about the alienator.

I have no idea why you are siding with name calling and hate. There is at least one poster on this thread that is in court for name calling OW in real life. Therefore, name calling is not a good thing.
I sided with no one. I said people are allowed to have a thread about the alienator and I said those who were saying that focusing on the alienator is not healthy are also right.

You really, really, lost me RCR. Siding with hate and name calling?  How bizarre.
Consistent and understanding of the process. Not policing and no, no bizarre.

Yes, you wrote about  b*tc#-Mode, but if I well recall, that had more to do with the LBS being tough with the MLCer than name calling OW/OM. Venting does not apply to name call and hate towards HS members, does it? Because that has happened on this thread. And you said nothing about it.
i never said it applied to HS members. This thread is meant to be about the alienator.

You have just opened the door to a lot more name calling and abuse by endorsing it. I am truly sad to see you write and do so. You have also showed the Code of Conduct you wrote has no value. Nor does your Mission Statement.
What I refuse to endorse is being the board police.

RCR edited in post to keep comments close to the original.

[Nas]

There is nothing wrong with the alienator as a topic of discussion. LBSs need to vent and it is part of their healing. I get that.

Anjae, first, I could not find a specific reference to name-calling on The Code of Conduct—I think it was likely there in one of my early drafts though and I mentioned name-calling as something not to do in recent posts. The Mission Statement does say that this is not a place to degrade or insult and that includes the MLC spouse.
Sure, not calling names is a good idea, but I think the problem Anjae is that you are being too literal regarding rule and looking at the letter of the law rather than the spirit. This is why I was so resistant to setting down specific rules of conduct. Yes, they are important and they protect us, but where there are rules there are police and I don’t want us to be the board police.

Those who say it’s not healthy to focus on the alienator and what does it serve you… are also right, but we need to accept the process of both MLC and of how LBSs recover. Yes, I’m all about Grace and Agape and Forgiveness, but I really hope I’m not self-righteous about it and that is what some of the complaints about this thread seem.

There are some here who are posting derogatory or name-calling sort of remarks about their MLCer or the alienator that bother me because I can see it is harmful to them and it is enabling them to remain in victim-mode, but there are many others who are not stuck in anger, but who are still using their anger as par to their healing.
For goodness sakes, I wrote about b*tc#-Mode and how venting is sometimes necessary!

I find this discussion absurd—in-fighting about whether you an have a Topic Discussion about the alienator.! Seriously people! Of course you can. It will be monitored and if it gets out of hand the mods will be here…but I really dislike even the assumption that it will get out of hand. We are adults and we can vent and talk about what we have experienced without going after each other.

Well the problem is not that some people are disagreeing, even disagreeing about whether the disagreements will get out of hand.

The problem is the people whose sole contribution to HS is fire spitting anger at the affair and mistreatment of other posters.
How many chances is Mego going to get?
I see her posts in a delayed manner because she has me blocked. But I still see them when we’re on the same thread.

This thread afforded her a prime opportunity to do both of her favorite things: get fired up about the immorality of the affair and make offensive statements to others.

I’m absolutely certain that was not 1trouble’s intent and not what she wanted to see on this discussion thread. Yet here we are again being subjected to it.

[Nas]

One last post then I’m outta here.   Yet another thread blows up and diverts away from the purpose of the discussion.   

No one here can be sure their ow/om is worse than anyone else's..   They are ALL horrible in their own unique way.  It does appear some situations are more challenging than others but not every poster talks about their ow/om in the detail that other posters do.  So who knows whose got it bad and whose got it not so bad?

Something else to consider,,,many AP’s are also in crisis.   For the AP’s that are also married or otherwise in a solid R until BD, that means your H or W is the OW/OM to another devastated LBS.  We all know what our MLCers are capable of so its very likely that the other devastated LBS is name calling, venting, about YOUR husband/wife in the worse way possible.

I wish HS had a “like” button

[Anjae]

Well the problem is not that some people are disagreeing, even disagreeing about whether the disagreements will get out of hand.

The problem is the people whose sole contribution to HS is fire spitting anger at the affair and mistreatment of other posters.
How many chances is Mego going to get?

Forever. I was called out for saying people should abide by the code of conduct and mission statement, both written by RCR, Mego was told nothing for her name calling and hate towards others.

I can't think of anything more ridiculous than those who say people most follow a code of conduct and a mission statment written by the board owner to be chastise by the board owner for doing so while name callers and abuser are allowed scot-free.

I believe you should give the example, RCR. And be respectfult to those of us who have been here for years looking after your board and helping others. Rather than having you allowing people to mistread us and gave them ammunition to do so.

[Not Applicable]

Maybe I will get kicked out of here for saying this, but here goes...Mego spent several months praising RCR to high heaven and doing nothing but talking about how she was her hero, while insulting and denigrating the rest of us.

I was called a fly multiple times by Mego and she made references to swatting me repeatedly.

RCR devoted a whole post to publicly chastising me, based on reading only a few posts that I wrote that others did not like. Interestingly, when she posted her new code of conduct here, I noticed that the posts that she publicly shamed me for did not violate that code in the slightest. So why the public lecture about what she found lacking in my personality?

I hope RCR does the right thing here and shows us that we do not have to kiss her ass to not get a purple public whipping.

[BrenM]

Moderators can we please get this thread back on track.  1Trouble I am so sorry that your thread has been blown up - It certainly is a subject which every LBS can relate to.   More relevant and beneficial to newbies and LBS within 5 or so years since BD who need support and a place to vent as we all know we are unable to do so in RL.

I used to recommend HS to many on a few FB groups that I am on.  I haven’t done this for some time.  This thread is the classic example of why.  1T started a very interesting thread and yet was questioned why such a thread should exist.  Seriously if you disagree with a topic, or a situation does not apply to your stage of your journey - please don’t comment.  Why is it necessary to debate everything that you don’t agree with?  The majority of members read and ignore. Why some posters feel it absolutely necessary to share their views (either disagree or agree) on every single post beats me!  We have long time members commenting that they fear mentioning things on their threads in fear of being judged and criticised. This is very sad for a support forum. It certainly is not the same atmosphere that it was when I first joined.

[Anjae]

... Mego spent several months praising RCR to high heaven and doing nothing but talking about how she was her hero, while insulting and denigrating the rest of us.

You are correct, Goner.

I was called a fly multiple times by Mego and she made references to swatting me repeatedly.

You were. And wrongly so.

None of my posts violates the new Code of Conduct, or has ever violated the Mission Statement. Yet, I was chastised more than once. Same is true of other members, including mods (current and former), the abusers were told nothing for months. And when they were it was because all hell broke lose.

I have no idea why people get reprimands for telling people they are breaking the Code of Conduct or the MIssion statement, but not for insults, hate and name calling. Things that under the Code of Conduct call for sanctions.

It is well known fact on HS I do not kiss ass. I do not intend to start now.

I believe you own all of us that have been insulted and suffered hate because you have protected them an apology, RCR.

I also believe you own a gigantic thank you to those of us who have been here for years on end doing daily work on your board. Be it mods, former mods, or old times. Even those who have been here for not than long.

There would be no HS without the work of those who are here daily, working for free, helping others. Yet, we are often very poorly treated when people who do nothing but insult and spew hate are told nothing.