[Not Applicable]

What Steel said about seeing them together when they were alone and didn’t know anyone was watching really struck me. I think we all want to believe that when no one is around they’re fighting or treating each other badly. That’s just not logical though. They do enjoy each other’s company a lot, if not most of the time. Otherwise they couldn’t last for years and years.

Of course it is perfectly logical. Lots of people stay in unhappy, abusive relationships. Especially young, impressionable OWs who don't know any better. My H wanted an OW specifically so he would have someone to put up with his "nastiness". Where he got the idea he was "nasty" I have no idea but it's abundantly clear that at some level he thought he would protect me from the bad side of himself by taking it out on someone else. Also, someone he could control tightly, unlike me.  And indeed he found someone who is mostly but not entirely compliant. Oh and he wanted someone to be like his mother. Yes, he told her that, not sure she is exactly like her though but that's what he wanted.

I wouldn't say that I would use the word "enjoy" but it is what he wanted, for reasons that are clearly related to FOO issues. The irony of it all was that our marriage represented an escape from the control of his family and OW at several levels represents a return to his family's control, even though he would never admit that to himself.

[Anjae]

A MLCer and the alienator may look happy and fine in public early on, but:

1) the more time goes by, the less happy they will be
2) just because they look fine and happy in public it does not mean it is the same behind close doors.

I only saw Mr J and OW1 once, by chance, not that long after BD, they seemed a normal couple. They never lived together, only saw each other on weekends. They didn't last long in the open. Mr J and OW2 spend at least 10 years together. Aside from once, early 2018, also by chance, I never saw them in person. Early 2018 when I saw them, he was djing, she was outside the venue, talking with SIL. No one who didn't knew then would be able to say they were a couple.

I saw several photos of them over the years. The happy "in-love" couple gave place to a totally bored couple. At a point, there were no more photos of the two of them. No one can spend 10 years together and it always fun and cool.

The longer a MLCer and alienator spend together, the more it is going to look like any other relationship, arguments and bad times included.

Early on it is still a fantasy, unfatuation can last up to 36-48 months, regardless of the type of relationship.

The MLCer did not got involved with OW/OM because of the marriage or the LBS. They will most likely not break with the alienator because of the marriage/LBS. Mr J and OW1 broke because of their own issues. Mr J and OW2 separated at a point last year. It is unclear if they are, or aren't, back together.

I can tell you being the dj's girlfriend is boring. You either stay home, be out with your friends, or have to spend hours in the club or bar he is djing at. That was one of the reasons OW1 and Mr J broke. They only saw each other on weekend, he was always busy djing on weekends. OW2 had to endure 10 years of being the dj's girlfriend. She is a much better person than I am when it come to it. I endured a few months or Mr nightclub when he was still living home, not nice at all. I would never endure 10 years of that stuff.

On top of the djing, is having a man who comes home in the middle of the night, or in the morning, drunk and reeking of cigaratte smoke. It is having a man that pretty much every time you go on holidays he will have to go djing, or come back to dj, or goes clubbing, or spends hours in records shops. Thanks, but no thanks, been there (for a few months), done that, got the t-shirt.

Which begs the question, since Mr J was not willing to give up the djing, the real serious alienator, why did I not wanted to divorce and though it was a good idea to "safe" the marriage"? I was being stupid. And, of course, like all of us, in shock. I would had broke with him/divorce him if he had carried on the djing lifestyle even if he he hadn't left and there was no OW.   


Who are Mr J's OWs. Both highly educated, one has a PhD the other a masters, both speeak 4/5 languages, cultered, one is a teacher (OW1) the other an agro research scientist (OW2). No visible issue with them, they look like normal women. They were both well like my Mr J's family, our friends that meet them and all his new friends. They were both early 30's by then, now in their 40's.

None of them is prettier or more interesting than I am. OW1 is one of the most boring, uninteresting people I know. OW2 is more interesting, and, as I said in another thread, if she was not OW2 I and her my get along very well.

OW1 knew he was married, she was part of our wide cultural circle, OW2 did not. OW1, by her own words to him, was dead jealous of me. Scared also. But their love was so great she broke all her values to be involved with him, and dare he not back off. He told her he too had to broke all his values to be with her.

OW2 come to the rescue of the broken hearted dj she had started talk to when he and OW1, that for OW2 was his girlfriend, broke. She is the knitness in shining armour. She got in his lawyer, choose the the fancy flat they live in, etc.

None of that excuses him. He was the married on. The one who was chatting women, first beyond my back, then beyond OW1's back. Nothing ugly, just how depressed/down he was, talks about his dj sets, art. It was all silly, teenager like.

If you want to have some idea of how absurd those talks can be, this is an old thread with Mr J's correspondence to OW1, and a little to OW2, The stuff to OW1 is mostly from before he left, to OW2 after he left, but some of it while OW1 was still in the picture.

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1694.0 - The Love Correspondence Between a Husband and OW an Insight 

[Penelope2018]

My xh's OW is the stereotypical one. An employee, much younger, much lower socioeconomic status, manipulative (suicide threats) et cetera. She's also an expat chaser. It's funny because I remember right after we divorced he spoke of her, not by name or pronoun or anything, but said he felt like he had been chased and he knew it was because of his citizenship status. Um, well you must've liked the chasing  . Destroyed his whole life for it. He also told his SIL that he wasn't sure about her because she's the flirty kind. So you're already worried she's a cheater like you lol. Well she did have a "fiance" when she got with him, so I'd think that'd be pretty obvious and hypocritical coming from him. At one point he wasn't even sure she wasn't married, so she had to initiate a conversation with her "fiance" talking about their dream wedding. She took screenshots and sent them to xh. Y'all see these people are bat**** crazy!

I don't engage with her in any way and the only time I've spoken to her other than when we first met (before the affair I ASSUME) was when she tried to add me to FB using a false name earlier this year. No idea why she cares what I do anyway. Xh and I are divorced and live far from each other. I guess his main FB account still bothers her. He still has a picture of us and his rt status listed as married. All his family and friends are on it. He made a new one just to talk to her and eventually sent me a friend request from it when I ignored him but she's not on either one. I just find that hilarious.

I really don't see them lasting if they do get married (may already be) because they're both so dramatic, manipulative and compulsive liars. At least that's what I've seen from their texts. No idea how they are together in real life. I know he can never bring her to live in his family's home as long as his father is alive. He'd have to bring her here and again, I know his father will not visit if she's in the house. So I don't know what will happen with them. I wanna say they'll fizzle out, but he just finally closed his business in his home country (a big catalyst for the MLC) and he texted me furiously to rant and rave about how his father was so happy he closed it, blahblahblah. So I definitely see continued acting out in his future.

[Evertrying]

I think a lot of MLC affairs are a lot like vampires. They are fine as long as they are hidden from real life and the light of day. Once exposed to the sun and out in the open, they become reality and eventually explode and burn like a vampire does in daylight.

The OW is just as screwed up as the MLCer. Why else would a moral, decent, woman with integrity get involved with a married man? They wouldn't. Someone once told me that "God does not give you someone else's husband. Satan does."
Nuff said. 

[Anjae]

I think a lot of MLC affairs are a lot like vampires. They are fine as long as they are hidden from real life and the light of day. Once exposed to the sun and out in the open, they become reality and eventually explode and burn like a vampire does in daylight.

Not really, since many MLCer and alienator relationships last many, may years. In fact, as soon as they are out of the darkness and they start living together it is no longer and affair, it is a relationship. There is no shortage of LBS on HS whose MLCer has been with the alienator for many years. It is rare that a MLC affair tends to explode, more like it goes on and on and on. And if it explodes, it may be a many years down the road.

No one gives anyone's else husband or wife, the husband or wife was willing to get involved with someone else. Lets keep in mind that if our spouse did not wanted to be involved with someone else they wound't be. The only reason there is OW/OM is because our spouse allowed him/herself to be involved with another person.

Penelope, your husband and OW, may last if they marry. Many MLCers love drama. It makes them feel wanted, important and that they matter. Otherwise, why would anyone bother to have drama? I am not saying they are going to last, just that they may and for not to base the probability in the fact that there is drama. Drama is what often fuels affairs, MLC or not.

[sachat3]

Everything that’s the biggest mistake I made when I confronted her s few weeks after BD. I just naturally assumed she was this woman that had been duped. She had no idea about me and the kids. Had no idea that just over a month ago he was talking weddings to me and sleeping in my bed telling me he loved me. My brain clearly forgot how she “liked” my photos of him on Facebook from family days and we chatted on comments on his social media.

I remember thinking “well if I was her and I got this message I would be mortified and I would never speak to the man again” *send* except obviously were not actually dealing with normal women here are we.

I’m not sure an affair developed before I kicked him out. Our case was a bit different as we argued. I kicked him out cos I was bored of his mooong about and I thought he would snap out of it. However, this is a guy she knew was only weeks ago living as a happy family. This was a man who even if he didn’t start with her till after. He still had a family. He still wasn’t well himself as he slept in a f*cking car park instead of admitting to his mum WHO LIVES NEXT DOOR. No no. They aren’t normal women so we can’t treat them as they are.

[Anjae]

From one of Treasur's posts: "A timely reminder https://www.chumplady.com/2019/04/the-futility-of-confronting-affair-partners-2/"

Do not confront the OW/OM. Nothing good will come of it.

You case is indeed a little different, sacha. You kicked your husband out, you think OW only come when he was on his own. But he remains responsible for the affair, not OW. He may had prefered a new woman is his life than live with his mum. MLCers hardly ever snap out of it if they are kicked out including those who already are involved in an affair while living home. In that they are different from ordinary cheaters. As a general rule, ordinary cheaters don't want to lose the marriage, MLCers couldn't care less about losing the mariage or the LBS. Or they may want both = major cake eating. MLCers are not willing to do the work. At least not until Replay ends.

They aren’t normal women so we can’t treat them as they are.

The truth is OW can be pretty much anyone. Same for OM. A regular cheater or a MLCer. The OW is not some special, weird person. There are people on HS whose marriage to the MLCer start with cheating. There are people on HS who have had affairs, be it MLC, for those LBS whose crisis involved an alienator, or non MLC. It is a myth OW is someone very different.

[Evertrying]

No one gives anyone's else husband or wife, the husband or wife was willing to get involved with someone else. Lets keep in mind that if our spouse did not wanted to be involved with someone else they wound't be. The only reason there is OW/OM is because our spouse allowed him/herself to be involved with another person.

True, but we all know someone going through MLC isn't for the most part, thinking straight. My H, the loving, caring, loyal & faithful man I married is NOT the man he is right now. Yes he chose to screw another woman, but the man I married 25 yrs ago would rather chew off his leg than be a cheater.

They know what they are doing is wrong, but the state of mind they are in justifies their every move. I remember when I went through my midlife transition (I didn't have an affair, but had my own issues) I look back at it now and can't believe I actually thought that some of the things I said and did made sense when in fact I was an idiot.

[Anjae]

No one having an affair is thinking straight. The thrill, at least while it is all in the darkness, is too high to allow people to think straight. That tends to apply both to the married as well as the unmarried person. Or two married people, if the affair is between married people.

Until the infatuation wears off, the chemicals are going to leave people in a wrong frame of mind. Affair recovery videos that can be found on YouTube are very good at explaining affairs, cheater frame of mind, etc.

They are mostly for normal affairs, but the main principles, excuses, blame and why the cheater has troubles facing what they did is similar, if not the same. MLC affairs bring with them other layers because MLCers are even more stupid than a normal cheater. Affair recovery also has a video about the MLC affair.

The spouses on non-MLC cheaters also never thought their decent spouse was going to have an affair. In fact, the cheater, MLC or not, also didn't thought they were ever going to have an affair. Exceptions being players. Serial cheaters whose cheating comes from sex addiction are addictis and that is another, very complicated, matter.

Even if, in their simples form, affair are addiction, the exception being a single one night stand. But those who only cheat once, or only cheat while in MLC, do not suffer from the sex addiction sort of addiction. In any case, the addiction is not to a person or sex, but to the chemicals.

[Silver]

Wow such a great thread, though more I read it the more confused I'm about if my XW is or ever was in MLC after all 
It's been very, very obvious, none of my friends that have followed my journey here never doubted it wasn't.
BUT...

It looks like OM just doesn't fit in script. If I got it right, they didn't have relationship before she filed and we separated, immediately after that yes but it was just a bit too logical move to be part of the MLC script to me. There was the other OM, right before divorce and THAT was very much by MLCer's playbook, lasted no more than 2 months, then she left him, it was probably just EA level though they were at same dancing class so they danced together which doesn't make it PA though. THAT guy fitted in the script, he was 10 years older than her, the little I knew about him was that he probably was very different from me in many ways, like the person XW wouldn't have any interest in before (assumed) MLC.

But now this guy... I don't see him opposite of me, how I see him is he has a lot of alike with me, even his profession, we are colleagues and even work in same organization. He is only year older than me. I don't believe his personal conducts differ from mine, not much anyway. In fact I see a lot of ME in him tbh.

So did she choose OM who was much like me but believes doesn't have my bad sides?? She felt I was controlling (never before MLC started but ever since) and suffocated her etc. I bet this guy doesn't etc... She has always seeked security, assurity from her man, that's the reason she probably picked me in first place, after just divorced from her 1st husband. Now she seemed to have reiterated it, jumped from R to R, immediately. Her primary issues are safety related, that's for sure.

Maybe this is just her LIFE SCRIPT in which I played only a part in the cycle and what I thought was MLC, actually wasn't.