[Velika]

I feel this term is not appropriate for a deeply traumatized LBS who doesn't understand what has just happened. I feel unfortunately it can create circumstances that put her in danger, be it physical, emotional, or financial — with longstanding repercussions.

I think that a lot of the language here was created from a more emotionally safe space — terms like "GAL," "pave the way," or "touch and go," which do not acknowledge the deeply traumatic impact of "bomb drop" and unfortunately do little to create the kind of awareness most LBS need from therapists, doctors, and lawyers — not to mention friends and family — that would truly protect them.

I deeply believe the only way to help a LBS in the short and long term is to identify ways to go no contact, quickly find an attorney and file for divorce, and take concrete steps to protect the children and the finances.

I also unfortunately feel that some of what is meant to be encouraging an LBS to recover and feel strong can end up making them feel defeated if not presented with sensitivity to the trauma they have just undergone, and sometimes are continuing to undergo. It is hard for an LBS to feel outgoing and engaged if they are still not feeling safe. Safety on all levels should be the number 1 priority of a site like this.

Instead of "pave the way," I think most LBS would be better off with a specific toolkit to minimize further damage to herself. Many of us have never dealt with a deeply disordered or mentally unwell person before. Validating what they say — or feeling it is on us to somehow make the marriage appealing, when it cannot be emphasized enough that this has to do with psychotic mindset not the marriage — is only going to further harm an LBS.

[Treasur]

I think too it might help to put safety first...emotional and practical and financial.
To encourage LBS to build their own small safe space before they even think about 'paving the way', if only because once they feel safe - whatever that means to them - it is easier for them to make more rational conscious choices.

Divorcing or not is a personal choice and circumstances vary,mbut I think as V says, some way of validating just how traumatic it is and a kind of emergency toolkit link would be a good idea. And much more constructive imho for both the LBS and any evolution in the relationship with the MLC spouse. Less damage is a good thing no matter what happens over the course of the spouses crisis.

Actually maybe someone should start an ideas thread on damage reduction to share painfully learned lessons and tips?

[Songanddance]

Whilst I totally take what Velika says...

For me. a divorce would not have been possible because H never left and in UK law, even in the case of adultery, a divorce cannot be granted to the petitioner if the defendant has been living in the home for upto 6 months after the adultery was cited.  It is possible to divorce after 2 yrs legal separation and in the home that means living completely separate lives and proving such as both parties have to be willing. 
5 yrs is an academic situation and requires neither party to consent; it can just happen. And 6 yrs on we are now reconnecting.  Ironic isn't it?

So bear in mind that certain countries do not have the no fault/quickie divorce (although it is coming into Britain - God help us) but living together as roommates is only classed as separation if both parties consent after 2 years.

So some of us who choose not to divorce may not be doing it because we are foolhardy - the law doesn't help us.

[Mortesbride]

I think Velika your stance is very valid for those who have suffered physical abuse due to their MLCer, or those who have violent and dangerous MLCers.

But I do not think that applies to most cases here, particularly if you want to reconcile.

If you want to move on then by all means go for it.

I would also expect a hard no contact, file for divorce, ''protect the kids'' mentality...might actually hurt the kids in the long run if you have a more mild or moderate MLCer.

[xyzcf]

For many people who come to HS, they wish to reconcile with their spouse.

Pave the way is used to give suggestions to those who wish to reconcile of possible things you can do that "might" make it easier to reconcile in the future. There is always the caveat given to "live your life as though they are not coming back" and "that nothing you do or say will make a difference" as well as "this is not about you or the marriage, this is their crisis" and "protect yourself financially".

People who have reconciled often talk about how they treated their spouse during the crisis. Setting boundaries may be one way of paving the way, as it tells your spouse what is acceptable and what is not...like showing a child, even when they don't want a boundary, what is acceptable.

Paving the way gives the LBSer a sense of trying their best to help their MLC turn back home, if that happens in the future.

It doesn't mean pursuing or not meeting your own needs. It does mean acceptance of your spouse's crisis and realization that something is wrong with them.

Paving the way basically is what RCR wrote about regarding agape and unconditional love. It doesn't guarantee anything. It would be how I would want to be treated if I were the one in crisis.

The image of a "lighthouse" is also used, once again for people who wish to reconcile. As we see, many LBSers may feel that way at the beginning of the crisis and decide that this is not something they wish to continue as the years go on. That is the LBSer's choice.

But for those who do wish to reconcile, treating the MLC spouse with some recognition that they are still important, that they can be forgiven, that they are loved....whether or not reconciliation ever happens, may allow peace in the LBSer's life that he/she has done all they can and the rest is in God's hands.

I do not think that using a term such as paving the way is detrimental to the LBSer and I do believe that Hero's Spouse is very supportive of the trauma that we are going through.

If this site doesn't meet your personal needs, then like many other things in life, you take what information does help you and disregard what doesn't.

[Acorn]

I agree with most of what Velika said, specifically the view that first aid for deeply traumatized LBS should receive a lot more attention than ‘pave’, etc. 

OP’s welcome note is an excellent start.  I have referred to it every morning to remind myself what ‘sanity’ looks like when I first joined.

Maybe a second note regarding ‘First Aid for LBS’ is something to consider?  Some practical pointers might be helpful. 

I deeply believe the only way to help a LBS in the short and long term is to identify ways to go no contact, quickly find an attorney and file for divorce, and take concrete steps to protect the children and the finances. 

By the time you figured out that you are not dealing with MLCer (possibly) but a violent and mentally ill man who abuses and harms his spouse and children, HS is no longer the right fit for you.  Sites for abused women may be better.

I totally agree it may be beneficial for some LBS to go NC in some cases.  It is a must that everyone should seek to protect kids and finances.  However, to suggest that they divorce?  I think it might be beyond your scope to suggest that to others. 

As you have rightly pointed out, many LBSs could be deeply traumatized and in a vulnerable emotional state.  I suggest that they are hardly in any condition to make huge life decisions, such as divorce, when they land in HS. 

‘Paving’, etc. advices could well be beyond the newbie’s capacity at that entry point, and they are not even life altering suggestions as yours (divorce) are.

What you have experienced, and I am really sorry for all the suffering..., cannot be equated to other situations.  One size does not fit all.

On another note, in general, I think that it is better for us to refrain from making sweeping statements that suggest or imply that ALL could be feeling this, thinking that, what the future will bring, what other’s situation is like, etc.  We simply do not know.

[Nerissa]

or me. a divorce would not have been possible because H never left and in UK law, even in the case of adultery, a divorce cannot be granted to the petitioner if the defendant has been living in the home for upto 6 months after the adultery was cited.  It is possible to divorce after 2 yrs legal separation and in the home that means living completely separate lives and proving such as both parties have to be willing.

I’m not a lawyer and in any case, divorce is a big step, and not one I’m keen to promote if there’s an alternative, but I was under the impression that adultery could not be quoted if  the marriage ‘re started’ for over six months since adultery was last confirmed ie if sex etc between spouses had resumed and adultery had stopped.  Divorce can be obtained quickly for irreconcilable differences can’t it?  And unreasonable behaviour is easily a way of obtaining a quick divorce since all these spouses are behaving unreasonably, even if they aren’ t having an affair.  Eg, I cited unreasonable behaviour and it included being unwilling to undergo counselling or to improve the marriage.  Anything that isn’t pro relationship can be unreasonable if it means the marriage is an unsatisfying place to be because one partner isn’t playing their part.

I thought the two year wait was if you wanted to keep all information off the record so as not to annoy each other with accusations.

I also agree that trauma affects many lbs.  it doesn’t have to be physical violence to do damage and almost all lbs doubt themselves terribly.

[Treasur]

I agree with Acorn though that we should all be more cautious than we sometimes are to not stretch one size into a fits all. Either for LBS or MLC. There are probably core scripts for both but also many differences. And some of those differences like financial risk might make a divorce important to protect oneself. Tbh though my sense is that, even for LBS here who filed, it really takes quite a while to be able to know what is going on and make big decisions like that. I probably would have been better financially if I had filed in Sept 16 when I considered it, but I also understand why emotionally and mentally I couldn't do that. And none of us know the path not taken do we?

I guess what matters most is finding some level of peace and understanding about whatever big choices we do individually make.

Most LBS seem to suffer some level of anxiety or depression for a while post BD.
And it is very hard to make wise important choices if you are experiencing either of these.
Regardless of how things unfold, the kind of emergency self care that deals with anxiety and depression is important it seems to me.

Some LBS will experience longer term depression or PTSD.
That is probably a function of individual history and specific events. I know in my case my immediate response evolved into PTSD bc I was dealing with four things simultaneously; MLC, my father's death, my mother's dementia and cancer. And bc I lost my parents, I also lost my support system. Rightly or wrongly, that was just too much for me. I suspect that I would not have developed PTSD if I had 'only' been dealing with my h's crisis. But again, who knows? That wasn't an available path for me bc that wasn't what happened.

[Acorn]

Most LBS seem to suffer some level of anxiety or depression for a while post BD.
And it is very hard to make wise important choices if you are experiencing either of these.
Regardless of how things unfold, the kind of emergency self care that deals with anxiety and depression is important it seems to me. 

Yes, I think many are echoing the same sentiment as you have just written, Treasur.
Sometimes, divorce may be the only recourse to protect oneself and kids, emotionally, physically and financially.  Even then, it’s a hefty legal decision not to be taken lightly. 

To recommend divorce, wholesale, is not warranted, in my opinion.

[xyzcf]

I agree with Acorn though that we should all be more cautious than we sometimes are to not stretch one size into a fits all. Either for LBS or MLC.

There are 4833 members registered on HS and others who read but have never registered. Each situation is different, each person is different.

RCR asked "what do you think it means to pave the way?" not whether or not paving the way was a good or bad thing for the LBSer.

In my "helplessness" to gain any control over my life and from the beginning, I knew I would stand forever, "paving the way" meant that there was something I could control in my world which had been blown up. Perhaps it would not have any difference in the long run, but it also aligned with the person I am....and the way I wanted to treat others.

To protect my financial self, I was able to get a legal separation which allowed me to stay on his medical insurance...that was in 2011, when he divorced me in 2018 I lost that right...had we divorced in 2011 my calculations based upon what I am paying for medical insurance now would be that I would have "lost" $95,094.00 as my monthly payments are $1174.00.

Not everyone's plan allows that, but that was a big factor in the decision that I took in my own situation(to my fellow Canadians who don't live in the US, that would not be an issue for you 

I did not want to be divorced. The stigma of that word causes me great pain..that is my experience and not others. It also meant that he could not remarry and I often wondered about any women he has had along the way and how they felt that he wasn't "divorced".

I would strongly recommend getting legal advice and if divorce is the only way to protect your financial asset then perhaps that would be the way you would choose to go...but I would not advise that in general..it is a very difficult and personal decision, just like everything else we do to rebuild our lives.