[Rollercoasterider]

Anjae,

The topic is What do you think it means to Pave the Way?
You have made statements based on what you think it means but have failed to qualify this and have instead stated them as facts.

...we read any mention of the possible payoff with the MLCer as unhealthy focus on them. If that article didn't include the MLCer in the list of possible positive recipients of such behavior, it would lose many an early reader.

Exactly
Attaching it to reconciliation is what a Stander will do. And we are being naive and even unfair when we try to strip away reconciliation in favor of Mirror-Work. Yes, Mirro-Work and focus the LBS needs to be primary, but there seems a trend toward avoiding the mention of reconciliation since it can take the focus off of Self. This fails to acknowledge the initial purpose for which many LBSs come to this forum. Reconciliation still needs to remain a part of discussion, even though it need not be the primary or even secondary or tertiary focus. This is a site for LBSs and especially established to be a safe haven for Standers who may feel persecuted at other forums. Standers want to reconcile. It may not happen, but they get to choose what they want, even if they do not get it. Furthermore, this forum was established to support them in that goal.

Paving the Way is like beautifying my house—the house that is me. Some of the things I do to my house will attract others to me. That does not mean that beautifying my house is about attracting outsiders to me; that is a byproduct.

There is an idea that Paving the Way is or is not effective. This suggests an agenda. Individuals do have agendas—I certainly did, but the agenda belongs to the individual, not to Paving the Way. Can reconciliation happen as a side benefit, of course it can, but a lot more goes into reconciliation and those MLCers who do return choose to do so of their own free will. It’s not about doing everything right as a Stander. My husband was probably going to return unless I chose not to allow it and/or went full scorched earth. Maybe I did some things right, but he was probably one of those MLCers who was just looking for continuing reasons to come home. That means it was not about what I did as a Stander. Sure, I helped a bit, but only a bit. It was just my luck of the draw to have an MLCer who was probably bound to make the choice to come home.
Paving the Way in those actions where positive results were a byproduct helped me because I gained confidence in myself and I what I was doing as a Stander. I believed in what I was doing and this kept me in a more positive frame which helped me to remain gracious and positive and allowed me to direct focus onto my Self. I cannot say how my path would have twisted had there been a few more negative upsets to weaken that confidence and belief in what I was doing. I honestly do think I did a lot of things right as a Stander—things that benefitted my Stand. But I think a lot of you do those same things and because of the luck of the draw, they will not have the same results. You can do everything right as far as Standing goes and your MLCer may not ever even consider returning. That is not your fault; it is their choice.
On its own, Paving the Way is not about reconciliation. Making it about it is something individuals do. That’s not something we can stop. It’s one of those things where I have always struggled as a writer. I made it about that; I had a specific goal of reconciliation. Does my being the author and then saying it is not meant as that make it wrong? I really do understand that it can make it confusing, but we need to separate RCR the writer of this site from RCR the Stander from 15 years ago.
So Anjae is both right and wrong. RCR the Stander used Paving the Way in her march toward reconciliation. But both of those aspects of me—writer and Stander—understand it as a Way of Grace, being gracious, kind, compassionate.
Niceing them home would make things so simple, but that’s not really why we should be nice—and it doesn’t work anyway. And some of the things we do will not be seen as nice by our MLCers! Jesus loved his enemies and his neighbors, but he also knew how to show anger. He turned over the tables of the money changers in the temple. He did not let loving people stop him from addressing challenges. Paving the Way is not always about making nice.

The model is good, but attaching it to the MLCer/reconciliation does no favours.

Then don’t attach it to reconciliation. The model is meant to be simple—bare bones, no upgrades, attachments or accessories. BUT each individual is free to add such accessories, attachments and upgrades for their personal usage. That is the part we need to accept and understand.

[Songanddance]

Niceing them home would make things so simple, but that’s not really why we should be nice—and it doesn’t work anyway.

Exactly - much as I hate the ambiguous word "nice". Choosing to be bitter and unpleasant is not a long standing healthy way to live. We may have just cause but holding onto it and refusing to be "nice" works against us.

For me grace and dignity will always over rule the anger and bitterness.

[xyzcf]

but there seems a trend toward avoiding the mention of reconciliation since it can take the focus off of Self. This fails to acknowledge the initial purpose for which many LBSs come to this forum. Reconciliation still needs to remain a part of discussion, even though it need not be the primary or even secondary or tertiary focus. This is a site for LBSs and especially established to be a safe haven for Standers who may feel persecuted at other forums. Standers want to reconcile. It may not happen, but they get to choose what they want, even if they do not get it.

Thank you RCR.

This site includes many views and I would say very few standers. I can understand why information is taken differently depending upon your personal decision regarding your future relationship, if at all with the MLCer.

understand it as a Way of Grace, being gracious, kind, compassionate.

It is the way I choose to live. The way I would want to be treated if the situation was reversed. "Paving the way" made me stronger, because I can face him without anger, bitterness or any regrets of how I have treated him.

It has never "stopped" me from growing, from building a different life. On the contrary, being "nice" to him requires much less energy than trying to be "right". It goes along with the acceptance that I believe he is in crisis (thank you DGU for your much verbalized phrase to me..."xyzcf, what part of the word crisis don't you understand?")

Nobody forces you to choose "paving the way" as an action that you may wish to use. For anyone that would like to reconcile, and I think that doesn't just mean standers for I have know of people who have been in other relationships and years later have reconciled with their MLCer, it is a term to explain some of the things that you do in your interactions with them.

Some people will never have contact again with their MLCer but many of us still do. That is our choice as is the way we treat them when we do encounter them in various aspects of our lives.

[Acorn]

What ‘Pave the Way’ means to me now (no longer a newbie):

- To make the rough places smooth or to remove stumbling blocks that may have formed over the many years together

- To overlay the path with genuine love, grace, strength, emotional and spiritual maturity which impart a sense of peace, hope, goodness and magnanimity to anyone that glances my way, not the least of whom is my MLCer.

- ‘Do unto others’ in practice

[Maleficent]

Acorn, Your definition of 'Pave the Way' is lovely and a model for how to behave when faced with any adversity. I am searching for grace and your second line captures that concept.  Thank you for sharing.

[Mortesbride]

The reason why you see people saying Paving The Way is a waste of time (myself included) is because most of us will never reconcile. Therefore, wasting time Paving The Way (like Treasur asked, for what) that is geared at the MLCer and MLC outcome and not geared at the LBS is a waste a time, as well as another level of worry for LBS that are dealing with BD.

Like Thunder said, Paving The Way is more effective at BD/early on. Exactly the time period LBS tend either to be a mess and/or need to focus on themselves.

What is the purpose of something that is only going to serve a handful of LBS rather than most LBS and why do you find it so important given it does not seem to affect the odds? The odds lie on the LBS wanting, or not wanting, the MLCer back.

Even if HS did not existed I actually Paved The Way according to your definition. It was stupid. It would had been better to put the energy and thought on my rather than thinking it was a good idea to be nice to my nasty, violent MLCer. He would dine at our flat, would be there nearly every day, we attended social functions together, etc. Result? Zero.

How can you determine that 'Paving the Way' is a waste of time 'because you will never reconcile'. Unless you have a magic ball to see into the future you do not know what is ahead. And if you actively choose NOT to pave the way, then how do you know that is exactly the reason why you never reconciled?

Paving the way will work for some and not for others. With each individual LBS, and each individual MLCer there are to many factors to determine that it is ''a waste of time'' because ''they will never come back''.

I think Paving the way is certainly important before and after the 'tunnel'...but I believe it is also important in between. Consistency, built up strength, positivity, determination are important throughout. It can't just be at the beginning then ''oh they are in the tunnel I am allowed to be bitter and angry and it will magically work because it doesn't matter what I do now''.   It has to be a consistent change. A change that is for YOU, to make YOU a better healthier person, but it MIGHT benefit your MLCer if they choose to return.

The purpose of having Paving the way is to help people learn not only how to interact with their MLCer...but for other troubled relationships in their life, and even how to help your relationship with yourself.

As for filtering and deleting information because it doesn't help 'most people' Who determines what information is helpful? Who decides if it affects the odds?

And going off that the ''odds lie on the lbs wanting or not wanting the mlcer back'' well of course it appears that way...we are a website full of LBS. Most websites that can be found are websites dedicated to LBS point of view. It is going to look like either we want our marriage back, or that we move on and decide. It is going to look like it doesn't matter what we do to our MLCer, they are all crazy, nothing we do can change that.

But logically, emotionally, and intellectually that doesn't make sense. Add to that the fact that many MLCers who return say that things DID affect them. The small kindnesses shown by the person they betrayed, the fact the LBS didn't treat them 'how they deserved', that after all the pain the LBS still treated them with respect and kindness....these few stories all have a running theme and it is that it DID matter how the LBS behaved. Not in single little incidences, or one off behaviours, but the overall theme of treatment.

It may not be our fault that they are running about like a lunatic...but how WE choose to behave and handle the situation absolutely 1000% DOES matter.

[TurtleGal]

Add to that the fact that many MLCers who return say that things DID affect them. The small kindnesses shown by the person they betrayed, the fact the LBS didn't treat them 'how they deserved', that after all the pain the LBS still treated them with respect and kindness....these few stories all have a running theme and it is that it DID matter how the LBS behaved. Not in single little incidences, or one off behaviors, but the overall theme of treatment.

It may not be our fault that they are running about like a lunatic...but how WE choose to behave and handle the situation absolutely 1000% DOES matter.

Mortesbride-
I love how you expressed this! What you said is how I viewed/still view Paving the way. I know I am still very new to all of this, but treating someone how I would want to be treated is what I try to consistently do. I ask myself: If I had been the one to blow up my M and do these crazy things, what is it that would make me feel that the situation could be reconciled? What would make me feel safe with the person who I hurt so badly?
Maybe the MLCer does not "see" everything that we are doing, but what about the times when they are seeing more clearly? When those times come, what do we want them to see from us? I certainly don't want my H to see a bitter, angry W who holds resentment and judgement against him. No, I want him to see a W who loves unconditionally, who knows how to forgive and treat him with respect and kindness.
I think by doing this we can hold up our heads and know that we are acting in a manor that we do not have to feel ashamed of later on. We also lead others to treat us with the same respect and kindness.

[Treasur]

There is a shifting point I think when we do these things bc of who WE are and how WE choose to respond to adversity as opposed to doing things in order to try to influence someone else to see us in a particular way or change their thoughts, feelings or actions. Most of us initially probably do interpret Paving The Way as being the latter first and then slowly move to the former.

Imho the language of Paving and Way does imply some kind of activity towards an outcome, Paving in order to create a Way to or for someone or something which I think can be easy to misinterpret initially. I don't like it simply bc I think the language feeds into some unhelpful LBS instinctive 'weak spots'...and it seems to confuse a lot of us and either lead us to trade in things we should perhaps not or beat ourselves up for failing to be nice/kind/calm/understanding/strong enough often when we are simultaneously being blamed or gaslit into feeling at fault.....but the content for me is about Grace. It is about behaving in a wsy which does not add more damage to anyone and allowing the possibility of some kind of shared healing and reconciliation in the broadest sense after the time of crisis ends.

[Sam I Am]

IMO, Paving the Way is for the LBS.

Not that it guarantees a reconciliation but it provides opportunity.  Not only for reconciliation but also other things in our lives.  It provides home for something good to come out of this someday.

Many of us have children, there will be times in the future when LBS and MLCer will be brought together and need to co-exist for the sake of the kids/family.  B-Days, Graduations, Birth, Marriages, Funerals, etc are just some things that come to mind.  I do not want to be the one that is there and is bitter and ruining an event for another member of my family.   

Here is an example of what I don't want in my future:   My D's wedding.  Future SIL's parents were separated pending a divorce.  Both came to the wedding alone.  Neither one of them would sit at the parents table next to the bridal table.  They didn't have to sit side by side...just be there.  Both refused to sit there if the other one was there.  My D was unable to have the traditional parents table that she planned on.  Sad....it didn't ruin the day but it did throw a monkey wrench into what was THEIR day...not the parents day.  I will tell you this.....SIL mom was a WAS.  She moved out in the middle of the night while he was at work.  He wasn't the nicest man but she chose to sneak out.   Other details I don't know and don't want to know either.

Anyhow...I don't want to be that person now or in the future.  I don't want to be the cause of distress to someone else if I can avoid it. 

This is my personal choice.  My choice to try to be a better person through his MLC.  My choice to do the right that I can live with.  After all....I am the one who has to live with the consequences of the decisions I make.

 If I am mean and bitter to him just because he hurt me....what am I gaining from all of this.  Nothing.  I am worse than him because I don't have the emotional imbalance at this time.  I have clear level headed thinking.  My actions would have been vindictiveness and plain meanness on my part.  I am not in HS anymore.  Leave that for the teens...I want to think I have grown past all that drama.

Paving the Way and treating H like a human and not a monster is helping me to heal. I can hold my head high and say no matter what life is throwing at me....I am making the best of it.  I am not bad mouthing him.  I am not blaming him.  I am not hateful and spiteful. 

This is all helping me to be able to be in his presence during family functions and other times.  It has allowed us to work together for the common good on some projects.  Granted my H is more milder than some I have read about but I also believe if I chose to be mean and bitter that he would have less courage to attend some functions when I was present.  He would be less apt to contact me now and then.  The kids and grandkids would then pay the price for my negative actions. 

This is how I see Paving the Way.  I am Paving the Way for something positive in the future....even if I should choose something other than marriage, we can still be amicable when the time is right because I wasn't mean and vindictive during his MLC.  It is not easy but it is worth it so far!

[Treasur]

Great explanation, Sam.

My much loved father often used to say that when the chips are down, what matters most is if you can look at your own face in the mirror and know you did your best. As you say, Sam, that you can live with your own choices and actions. All the Paving The Way content for me is about that. Being able to look at your own face in the mirror regardless of what others do or don't do. I couldn't stop the destruction or lies or abuse, but I could choose not to add to it and not to let it take more from me than I was prepared to pay. I didn't always choose wisely or well as I struggled, but I have nothing to feel ashamed about or need to lie about. Bc of my own values, it mattered to me to honour myself, who my h had been and the marriage we had made by working hard to treat everyone involved with respect and fairness even though others often did not behave that way. I suppose the question that always helped me was to consider what choice of response would feel better for me in 5 years time looking back as opposed to a reaction that might make me feel better for an hour or two.

Actually thinking about it now, this WAS something I could fight for, something I COULD choose when there were so many other things I had no choice about at all. In a weird way maybe, this was where I took my power back.