Skip to main content

Author Topic: Discussion Becoming a better person?

D
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2987
  • Gender: Male
Discussion Re: Becoming a better person?
#10: May 05, 2011, 04:59:16 PM
It very much makes sense.  I hold the personal belief that MLC is tougher on the LBS who live under the same roof as their MLCer.
  • Logged

B
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 1752
  • Gender: Female
Re: Becoming a better person?
#11: May 05, 2011, 06:56:50 PM
I agree with DGU and trusting.  I lived with mine for a year during his MLC and it was much harder...the LBS has no personal space and my goodness I just remember the way he would look at me...AND I WAS PREGNANT WITH OUR SON...at times the eyes were just so dead and so scary.  I commend those who have been living with them for years during their MLC...I couldn't do it..it was more painful for me and made me feel stuck.  Most of my growth started after he left and HE GOT MUCH WORSE and more high energy and full of antics
HUGS
BUGS
  • Logged
Pain is not a punishment, pleasure not a reward.  ~Pema Chodron

A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her.  ~Oscare Wilde

M 33
H 33
Married 9 years
3 children (D8, D3 and S7months)
BD-Spring of 2009 EA
H Filed 09/2010

t
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3150
  • Gender: Female
Re: Becoming a better person?
#12: May 05, 2011, 07:19:30 PM
That is it exactly, Buggy. Sometimes (okay, a lot) lately I feel very stuck.
  • Logged

T
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 6111
Re: Becoming a better person?
#13: May 06, 2011, 12:15:49 AM
Goodness, I want to write a lot on here....  I have to rush now but will defiintely come back to finish.

It's going to be a bit of a side track, but it is about rebuilding relationships and becoming a better person. 

I had a long, long conversation with my mother last night; she and I have had a difficult relationship for a long time, partly due to me wanting things from her that she wasn't able to give.  It was about how to move forward. 

It is truly amazing how it is possible to trust, and to forgive, the moment there is some acceptance from both sides. 

I need to run now, but will write reams on this....
  • Logged

B
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2227
  • Gender: Female
Re: Becoming a better person?
#14: May 06, 2011, 07:08:23 AM
TrustandLove,
I look forward to your thoughts on this when you have time.

T, I'm happy to hear you ARE more optimistic!  Really!  But I know that is not all you are feeling and I know your pain is immense.

I never wanted H to leave but sometimes I myself wanted to.  I did not.  I would not given what has happened so far but I do believe that living with this daily has indeed worn me down.  There is no space.  My long dormant panic attacks started just prior to BD, and definitely because I knew something was really wrong.

My panic attacks prevent me from driving other than a few miles from my home.  Annoying and awful for many reasons but the worst is that I could not get away from the house other than to take a walk....I totally depend on H to drive me around.  Ironic how once again, the MLC's complaints wind up being what they do to us:

I think about how my H's biggest concern was being irrelevant yet that is exactly how he made me feel.  He was terrified of becoming unattractive as he aged and again, that is exactly how he made me feel.  And he complained that  he needed freedom and that is exactly what was taken from me thanks to his actions precipitating my panic attacks. 

It's alot to get over.  I've already forgiven some things but I won't be the same person and again, I can't really think of traits I've acquired that will make me better.  I'm sorry to be so negative.  If I'd had a marriage that needed alot of work, perhaps I would feel differently.  And maybe if he has an epiphany and is willing to admit it, that will help.  I get apologies and revelations in dribs and drabs so maybe I am waiting for groveling despite the fact that shouldn't be what I want.  I'm not proud of that.  Just honest.
  • Logged
"I have been studying the traits and dispositions of the "lower animals" (so called) and contrasting them with the traits and dispositions of man. I find the result humiliating to me."
Mark Twain

t
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3150
  • Gender: Female
Re: Becoming a better person?
#15: May 06, 2011, 08:16:20 AM
Quote
T, I'm happy to hear you ARE more optimistic!  Really!  But I know that is not all you are feeling and I know your pain is immense.

Bon - I'm not so optimistic today, LOL!

I totally understand what you are saying.  Their journey really IS about them and their issues.  We can taken from the journey what we want to or feel we need to.  A biggie for me was the realization that my identity had become just that of wife and mother.  Those of course have great value, but I had lost ME over the past few years.  Even just pre-BD I realized that I had given up so much of myself and who I was and the things that drive me and I have been trying to recover that.  It has been really, really difficult because of these circumstances, the job market (would love to switch jobs), etc. are keeping me "stuck" in some ways, coupled with the fact that I have NO TIME, doesn't even feel like a spare second, to pursue some of the things I want to. 

I get the feeling of wanting to run as well.  I honestly don't know if we didn't have the kids where I would be or what I would be doing.  I of course absolutely will not walk because of them, and they need me to stay for them and to fight for their daddy, but honestly . . . I don't know. 

Sorry about your panic attacks. :(  I went through a period of having panic attacks after we were married about a year, I guess due to stress at work.  The funny thing is, my H had absolutely NO IDEA until about a decade later (guess I was young and stupid and didn't want to tell him).  He thought I had become a home body because I just never told him about them and I was really actually afraid to go out, particularly by myself.  Somehow I managed to work through it and after about a year it was all under control, but this MLC has at times had those feelings of panic start to rise up and it scares me because I don't want to go back to that place.  By the grace of God, though, I haven't.  I totally understand where you are coming from on that as well.

The thing is, just as the MLCer's journey is theirs and individual to them, so is ours - what we need to improve, what we need to change, or that we really don't.  Does that make sense?
  • Logged

S
  • *
  • MLCer Type: Off-N-On
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 1148
  • Gender: Female
Re: Becoming a better person?
#16: May 06, 2011, 08:32:52 AM
Hi Bonbon,

I am not sure that I would couch it as a better person, but maybe a stronger person? I understand the trust thing, I think we all have it, but what I have lost is blind trust and I wonder if that is actually a good thing because we can love people and feel as though we know them and make assumptions based on those things, and in the process forget that we all evolve and change throughout our lives and the only persons behaviour I have even a smidgen of hope of predicting is my own, and that is because I am (relatively  ;) in control of it, and not of anyone elses). I also am starting to remember that I a competent person in my own right and that knowledge helps my self-confidence which means I am less of a pushover - again I think that that is a good thing, it may alienate some but maybe the people that don't or can't accept that I am entitled to my thoughts and opinions don't DESERVE to be my friend - for instance, a year ago I would not have posted this post for fear it did not conform to what I thought the others on here believe, now I am practicing the art of respecting others opinions whilst not being afraid to share my own (and hopefully retain the capacity to change my mind if someone makes me think about my own differently, but not just because I want to be liked). I have stopped people pleasing as much which I see as different to having compassion for the suffering of other people, something I think I better understand - that may be "better" too. It is funny because I also have some new optimism about some areas of my own life, but that may be because I have consciously decided to not wait around for H, if this could take 2-3 years and even then he might not return, I am not wasting another second on him. I have moved out of the family home to a new city with my 2 kids, I am job hunting and hoping to kick start a career of my own, which never really got off the ground due to me supporting him. I am taking care of my kids, making new friends and may consider dating at some point too (I know it is frowned on, but if H ever comes back, he will have to accept that HE walked away from me, basically telling me to move on, if he can't then he is more than a hypocrit as I would never have started something with someone else under normal circumstances)

For me that is living "as if". And if he wants to come back, he will need to make amends and prove he deserves me. If he is not man enough to do so, then he is not man enough for me and never will be. My point is that to find out who you are truly capable of being you have to do for yourself whatever it is that helps you grow without your MLCer and for me that involves the above, it might be different for you. I am in the process of letting him go. If he wants to ever come back it will have to be his effort (at least at first) and I will then decide if he can fit into my busy life of new career, plans, directions, friends etc.

I do believe that this will make me more fulfilled, more self-aware and confident and therefore a better person in the long run. That is not to say I do not have (long) moments of anger, bitterness and disbelief still, but they are lessening the more I move away from the life that we had towards one of my own design.

Sorry to be so long winded. Interesting discussion, will be watching the opinions of others as it progresses.
  • Logged
It's a new dawn
It's a new day
It's a new life
For me
And I'm feeling good


Nina Simone

T
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 6111
Re: Becoming a better person?
#17: May 06, 2011, 08:41:12 AM
OK, I've got a bit of time; I'm going to try.  Be warned, this is likely to be long and wandering, and I may have to drop it before editing, and will then come back to it later.....

Background to this is that I never really felt that my mother loved me -- that is a harsh thing to say, but it's true.  My mother says that she just never had any idea of what I wanted, that she didn't know what to give me.  That's been something going on for years, not just in yesterday's conversation.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't abused, just "benignly" neglected.  My parents were too busy with their own dramas to really worry about any of us. 

I called her because of something I think Bewildered put in her post (sorry if it was someone else) about one of the most intimate things two people can do is tell each other exactly what it is that they need the other to do to meet their needs.  I thought about my r with my mother, about the fact that my MIL has alzheimer's and can no longer be there in any way for anyone, and thought that I'd try again with my own.... 

That is the relevance to "being a better person" -- learning to actually ask for what I need.  I thought I'd start with her, and maybe a great benefit of this would be an improved relationship with her and lots of healing of past hurts for me. 

I was always a sensitive child; one thing that my mother used to say to me even when I was very young was that I was "too sensitive" -- that it was my own fault that I felt bad.  And that just made me feel worse.  Unaccepted. 

Now the background here is that my mother has the skin of a rhinoceros.  She also has the gift of re-writing history, and honestly just forgets all the bad stuff. 

All things which make life easier for her.   I can get angry and resentful about that, but that is her and I'm not going to change it. 

Now I'm not sure if I'm any more super-sensitive than anyone else, I think it's that my mother is super UN-sensitive.  She said very tellingly last night that it also means that she doesn't feel happiness and joy in great measure either, she just lives life in the middle.   

So I started telling her very specifically what I wanted in a given situation.  And gave some examples of how she had done that in the past, and one very glaring one of where she had gone totally the other way.  I was careful to say that my hurt feelings weren't her FAULT, but that I had found her behaviour hurtful.

The biggest shock was hearing that she had absolutely no memory of that time.  It wasn't just one conversation, either, it was a whole two-week period.  She was blazingly angry at me, blaming me for all sorts of things that I had no idea about.   She just said that she always thought of how nice it had been to visit me.  And the truth was that she had enumerated exactly how bad a hostess I had been, telling me that I hadn't washed her sheets frequently enough, that the food wasn't good enough, that there weren't fresh flowers in her room, and much, much more.   The result of that was that we again didn't speak for a long time, and that she didn't come to visit for something like 5 years.  When about 6 months later I tried to apologise for my part in it all (I was willing to take the blame for everything but one incident), she just brushed it aside.  I now know that she really, really didn't remember it at all.

(when she did come next, I pulled out all the stops and put the rest of life on hold for the duration. I had no idea that she didn't remember the previous time....)   

Shocking, really. 

But that is a digression -- interesting possibly only in that it may be similar to what our MLC spouses do.....

But the bit about becoming a better person is that we talked, not about blaming each other for past transgressions, but about how we would do it better in the future.  Specifically, how she would try to meet my needs in the future, but more crucially, what I would expect.  I completely owned the fact that I may have always been expecting things that just weren't possible.

The thing that I found amazing was that the minute that she acknowledged that I had been hurt and that she wanted to do something to meet my needs the next time I saw her, I felt a flood of forgiveness.  I have been looking for that for years.

She didn't crawl -- she said very plainly for me to tell me what I needed, and we talked about how that would be possible.  She said she couldn't do anything about the fact that she didn't remember -- and that's true.  She said it most likely was a way for her to cope with all sorts of hardships that life has dealt. 

She didn't say that she would try to change.  And I think that's crucial.  She just said that we would work to try to meet my needs being the people that we are. 

Now there is still a ways to go, but I will start by calling her again today and telling her that just acknowledging my needs was a big thing for me.  She said that "somehow we never give you what you need even if you say -- probably because you always seem so capable, so we just think you'll be OK".  Backhanded compliment, I know. 

So I continued repeating very specifically what I would need.  It felt a little odd at first, but became easier.  I stopped expecting her to "know".  I realise that she is never going to be the type of mother that I would have wanted, but if we can do this we'll have come a long, long way. 

So through this I do hope that I can become a better person, better in being able to express what I need from someone. 

Right, gotta run, this is unedited, more later....


OK, it's later....

Not much to add, only that I know with her that I will have to continually express what I need.  Perhaps that is what we need to learn to do with everyone, rather than blindly expecting them to do what we think is right. 

This was really an eye-opener. 

  • Logged
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 09:18:14 AM by Trustandlove »

T
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 6111
Re: Becoming a better person?
#18: May 06, 2011, 10:09:31 AM
I realised that I do have something to add.....

I'm not a saintly person -- the forgiveness that I spoke of was for lots of things, but I still have to work through the bigger abandonment issues:  my father was an alcoholic who basically drank away his family; my mother's leaving him was what saved his life, for it got him to sort himself out. 

That's half the story -- the bit I have a hard time forgiving is that my mother had been having an affair for years, and left my dad to marry her affair partner (to whom she has been married for nearly 30 years now....).  I have never liked him, and have spent 30 years telling myself that it is OK because she is happy with him.  I never call him my stepfather, he has no place in my life. 

so I'm still struggling with feeling like my mother chose him over us (read:  me). 
  • Logged

B
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2227
  • Gender: Female
Re: Becoming a better person?
#19: May 06, 2011, 10:25:27 AM
Wow T&L,
That was a very moving story and a profound experience for you.  I'm glad you are keeping things going with your mom and I hope that your forgiveness is appreciated and respected from her.

I do agree that some MLCers forget what they have done and said.  I know my H has because when I've mentioned things, he honestly looks like he has no idea what I am talking about.  That is another reason I believe this is some sort of mental illness...a fugue state of some sort.

I think that perhaps alot of my problem is that again,  I suffered a romantic blow of epic proportions long before I met and married H.  I've written about it before but in case you all don't know, I was supposed to marry by boyfriend of seven years and on the night before the wedding, I found out he had cheated on me the entire time and did not want to get married.  He proposed to me out of fear I would leave him (I did not know this) and let me forge ahead and make plans for a large wedding.  We had to call 250 odd guests on the night before the wedding and the morning of, cancel the whole thing.  We were living together at the time as well.  My life was in shambles.  I swore I would never open my heart again let alone trust a man.  And yet, I grew in many positive ways after a brief period of self indulgence and destructive behavior.

I became the person I was meant to be.  I knew who I was, what I could survive and I raised my standards of who I would have relationships with and what I would put up with or not.  I learned to stick up for myself, be direct in my needs and never let someone crush me again.  Most of all, I would not even consider a romantic relationship unless it was with someone who had the same values, the same level of devotion and they must be unequivocally loyal and honest.

Three years later, that was who I found.  I had already done my growing and forced myself to trust, based on his word and his character.  I no longer wanted to be married to be married...but rather because I had found my soulmate.  He did not have to be perfect but had to be perfect for me.  That was a growth process I completed and gave me phenomenal strength and standards and character I didn't really have prior to that mess.

So, I do understand the growth that can and should happen.  I just wonder what lesson their is in this for me since I already dealt with this sort of thing once before.

I am heartened by those of you who say this has been a lesson in finding yourself, speaking up for yourself and so forth.  I know what it's like to learn those things and it feels darn good no matter what prompted it.  Bless you all. 
  • Logged
"I have been studying the traits and dispositions of the "lower animals" (so called) and contrasting them with the traits and dispositions of man. I find the result humiliating to me."
Mark Twain

 

Legal Disclaimer

The information contained within The Hero's Spouse website family (www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com, http://theherosspouse.com and associated subdomains), (collectively 'website') is provided as general information and is not intended to be a substitute for professional legal, medical or mental health advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. The Hero's Spouse cannot be held responsible for the use of the information provided. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a trained medical or mental health professional before making any decision regarding treatment of yourself or others. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a legal professional for specific legal advice.

Any information, stories, examples, articles, or testimonials on this website do not constitute a guarantee, or prediction regarding the outcome of an individual situation. Reading and/or posting at this website does not constitute a professional relationship between you and the website author, volunteer moderators or mentors or other community members. The moderators and mentors are peer-volunteers, and not functioning in a professional capacity and are therefore offering support and advice based solely upon their own experience and not upon legal, medical, or mental health training.