[BonBon]

Hello everyone,
I really appreciate what you've written and it is interesting to me in that some of you have endured much worse pain and hardship from your loved one's MLC than I have.  That makes me feel very guilty and full of self absorbtion (again I'm mirroring the MLCers self absorbtion - how ironic.).

I do agree that I have realized some of my own blessings.  I have told my H several times in this last year that I am who I am.  I am willing to work on marriage things if there are issues but I will not change who I am nor my expectations regarding behavior in a marriage.  I have told him that I have plenty of faults but I actually like myself.  I know who I am and I don't think it's half bad.  The very fact that I can and do admit my faults and recognize my good points puts me at a huge advantage over the MLCer and no, that will not be taken away from me.  No way.  Now how.  I almost let that happen.  But I didn't and I will not.  Period. 

I don't think I will ever trust again.  It will take remorse the likes of which some will never see to make that happen and I doubt that I will see that.  Not because it isn't in him but because I am not optimistic he will face that head on.

That said, as HB once said, I simply don't want to be married to anyone else.

[GottaBeMe]

Standanddeliver,

I did have it rough, but everybody on here has it rough.  I haven't even gotten into half of what I went through.  Part of me would like to because I think seeing that people can get to a better place, eventually, is helpful.  I'd like to share sometimes just to show that I understand and sympathize with their pain, or anger.  This SUX for everybody.  The other part of me doesn't share a lot because I don't ever want to come across as "I had it rougher" kind of attitude....no, no, no.  I still sympathize with a very good friend of mine even when she complains about her H eating her cake, lol.  I really do understand even the trivial problems in life.  I guess what I was describing was at certain points, when I was at the lowest of lows, that hearing certain things from people was hard for me.

I took huge hits, emotionally, and financially, and I even held the attitude for awhile that I was a person that this shouldn't have happened to because I don't have what it takes to survive it......but I did.  I'm doing quite well, and nobody is as surprised as I am!

BonBon,

I don't think you should ever feel guilty for feeling what you feel.  This stuff his hard, it hurts plain and simple.  I think you are right in what you say, about being the sort of person who examines yourself and being at an advantage.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, the people on this site, who even make an earnest attempt at trying to figure this stuff out, stand for their marriage( even if only for a time), and try to find compassion and forgiveness, are a huge step above the vast majority of people that I encounter in my world.

One time I was talking to my boss, and trying to explain how I felt(don't know what came over me), and at one point I said " it made me crazy for so long trying to figure out what I did wrong...etc.".  He said to me "that was your first mistake, even thinking about it at all".   I was rather appalled.... I said "no, not at all, part of who I am is having a desire to find where I might have made errors, and hold my self accountable for that".  That shut him up.

Big kudos to everyone on this site, you are all fabulous.   To say that this is difficult is an understatement.

[Dontgiveup]

BonBon

I don't think you should change who you are.  I don't think any LBS needs to change who they are.  Who you are did not cause the MLC.  Your marriage did not cause the MLC.

I hope this comes across right, but I get the impression you are fighting against something that doesn't really require fighting.  In my opinion, he just needs to process his MLC.  I am not one who thinks the LBS really needs to change.  I think the LBS needs to be the "lighthouse", solid and consistent.....not changing.

[limitless]

DGU,
I am going to respectively disagree with you.    (Sorry).
I am in the camp that believes that the LBS needs to make some changes, too.
Maybe because I am/(was?) somewhat broken myself, before, during, and after my marriage.
I probably am not the first person to acknowledge that I was not without fault in the demise of my marriage.  There were things about my personality, things about me - that I truly needed to change.  I was sometimes overbearing, obsessive, naggy, b*tchy.  I didn't let things go.  I would argue points until my opponent (my H?) would give up in frustration and just let me have my way.  (Actually he seldom put up much of a fight).   
I was a workaholic.  Didn't pay enough attention to my spouse.  Took him for granted.  Had a sharp tongue.  Allowed myself to become overweight and didn't take care of myself - as much as I should have. I held grudges.  I didn't let things go.  I brought up the past and never forgave.  Certainly never forgot.
At the same time, I was fiercely loyal.  Gave everything that I had, and sometimes more.  Stood behind my H, when he faltered.  Never strayed.  Truly loved him, with all my heart.
There are some things about me, that I like and plan to keep.  Other things - that I no longer want to be. 

This MLC, that I know that I am not responsible for and didn't cause - has made me take a really hard, deep look at myself.  And, some things, I didn't like to see.  Didn't want to admit or acknowledge about myself.  But, I had to.  And, I know, should I ever have the fortunate opportunity to have a relationship again (with my H or someone new), I will work my hardest to realize that the most important things in life are family and love.  Not take for granted what I have (and I could lose).....Be kind, forgiving, and patient.

Am I still going to be ME?  Of course!  There are some very wonderful things about me.  But, those crappy things?  They need to be gone.....'cause that is no longer me.  I'm not that shrew anymore.

So, for me.....I respectfully disagree.  The LBS should take an inventory of himself/herself.  Realize that you are not the cause.  That you cannot fix it (him/her).  But, you can fix yourself.

Isn't that what life's truly about?  To learn from our experiences?

L

[BonBon]

Wow, I think both of you, DGU and Laurescan are right! lol.
It depends on the person.  Again, many of my lessons on love and relationships were learned long ago, pre-H.

Laursecan, absolutely, living and learning are what it's all about.
I think though, for me, this time around, the lessons I have learned are not happy ones nor positive but for some of us, it will be positive.

For me though,  I already knew I could survive.  I never took my marriage nor my husband for granted.  Not ever.  I'd already been down the rotten roads of bad partners. All I've learned is that even your best, most trusted friend in the world can turn on you in a dime.  My lesson I guess is I can only trust myself.

[LoveMeMyself]

BonBon,

    I am concurring with you.  I also believe it truly depends on each individual.  I've tried and tried to do a lot of soul searching on my part.  I can honestly say that I like myself and I don't see where I need any changes..........not directly.  Perhaps, I should change a few minor issues but only if my exH decides to come back and work on a new relationship.  True, there would be things that need some "twinking" (if you will), in order for our relationship to be even better.  I'm not without flaws or faults..........that's for certain.  But, I knew I too, could survive without him..........already done that before.  Over the past 25 years of my life I have become a different person.  I strive to treat others as I want to be treated.  I smile and speak to people daily.  I feel like perhaps others are hurting or suffering in some way and a nice smile or kind word can do wonders. 

     In the short 6 years I was with my exH I changed but I think it was not only for him but also for me.  He is a kind, generous man with a big heart.  He didn't like confrontation and neither did I.  I now think that perhaps NOT being direct and stating how we each felt caused some problems.  In other words, I think we both kept things to ourselves in order to prevent any type of confrontation.........mainly out of fear.  That will not happen to me again.  Lesson learned.  I have also decided that from now on I will speak up and say how I feel............but I will do it with compassion.  I want to shed my fear of not being able to trust or love again.  I suppose that will happen in time...............just like MLC.............it takes time.

[trusting]

I think our entire long journey through life we should be looking at ourselves and be open and willing to work on things that need work.  That is part of growing as a person.  I think the crisis jump starts that in a lot of us because we are suddenly put in a place we never thought we would be.

[kappy]

It's very true Trusting.  It's amazing that it takes a crisis to make us look at ourselves and see our flaws.

[Dontgiveup]

Life itself is definitely a continual learning and maturation process.....for some, that emotional maturation process even includes MLC (unfortunately).

I do think examining and working on the Self is very important.  As RCR writes, doing so will help in any relationship, including a future relationship with your MLCer.  I believe working on the Self includes some specific things....the unconditionals.....love, grace, forgiveness.  I believe these can be part of the maturation process, but it's also likely true that each of us struggle with these in different ways.  Forgiveness, for example, is one that gets mentioned by LBS on here fairly frequently.

I guess my point is that I have many of the same characteristics and values that my ex-wife fell in love with.  Those things are who I am, and who I will be.  As Jim Conway says, when MLC happens, the value system of the MLCer turns upside down.  He writes that in most cases, however, the value system of the MLCer returns once the process is complete.....and in most cases is even more refined.  Perhaps that's why we hear of martial relationships going to a new level post-MLC.

[BonBon]

I have to say that if Conway is right, and the previous values are even more refined, I will be very happy indeed.

I think what might be happening for me is that my H is changing rapidly.  He has become nicer and nicer to the point now where he is acting towards me as the pre-MLC person was.  That said, I believe there was some cake eating very recently with his FB account...the (hopefully) final attempts at his outside validation.  Nothing that big a deal...but cake eating nonetheless.  At the same time, what I've been hearing for a few months and with increasing intensity and frequency in the past few weeks, are declarations of love and devotion towards me.  He has even gotten weepy a few times telling me how much he cares.  What we all want, right?
Though this has not come with overt apologies.

But interestingly, while I am glad on the one hand and certainly relieved, it has allowed me more freedom to have my own feelings.  During peak MLC, I had fought so hard to detach, to keep my feelings at bay.  Now, as he draws closer to me, my long supressed feelings are coming to the surface and while somewhat hurt, I am angry.  Lordy, I am angry.  I think this is putting a negative spin on my outlook on this being any kind of growth or learning experience.  I'm not sure what to do about that right now.