[trusting]

I have to say that if Conway is right, and the previous values are even more refined, I will be very happy indeed.

I couldn't agree more, Bon.  My H's values are so skewed right now that it makes me worry it is permanent, but I will take more refined than before once this is over for sure.

I think (and just guessing here) that while your H's declarations of love are a really good thing, the fact that he hasn't expressed the remorse shows that he is still pretty far in the tunnel and maybe hasn't started to take a look at himself yet.  Just a guess.

[BonBon]

Hi T,
There have been apologies previously...quite a few....but not the all out no holds barred thing I want.  And maybe that means he is in the tunnel still or maybe that means I want the groveling I'm not supposed to want?  I'm not sure what to think...

Very confused indeed.

I hope both our H's refine those standards...SOON!

[Dontgiveup]

BonBon

Just based on what I've read here, in Jim Conway's writing, and witnessed through where my friend is, I believe it is a combination of both.  It sounds like he may be in what Conway call the "coming down", or the final part of MLC.  Even though it's the final part, he is still in his crisis.  Conway calls this a gradual coming down from the doubt and anxiety that is MLC.

What you describe from your husband is similar to what I see RCR describe from her husband.  Not groveling....and not an intense, condensed apology.....but sincere remorse expressed over a period of time while still struggling at time with the freshness of the crisis.  I think it's only natural that you will also struggle for a while with the freshness of the crisis.

[BonBon]

Hi DGU, thanks so much for your explanation.  I haven't read Conway's book and so I'm not familiar with the coming down effect.  How does one know they are still in crisis though?

This weepy thing is strange.  He used to be weepy at times when he was feeling very connected to me but of course there was one none of that during peak MLC.  I don't know if he is weepy because he really does love me or if because he's feeling remorseful or feeling that he could have lost me?  I have no idea what to make of it.  This weeping is when I say something "cute" or as was teh other day, him hugging me after spending the whole day studying, erego away from me, but only upstairs.  It's really tough to know what to make of it.

Thanks for any insights!

[Dontgiveup]

I don't know that you will necessarily just be able to say that on a certain day his MLC is done.  As your mutual trust continues to build, you will slowly but surely feel more comfortable with where he is.....where you both are.  No need to rush that.

As far as his weepiness, it could be all three.....he loves you, feels remorseful, and knows he could have lost you.  You know him better than anyone, so I would say if those things are what your intuition tells you, there's probably some accuracy to it.

[BonBon]

Thanks DGU!
It's funny.  You start out as an LBS totally confused...then you get used to what you're dealing with and don't feel as confused...then they start to turn around and you get confused again.  Maybe I should call myself a CALBS....confused AGAIN LBS!

Thanks!
 

[hrtnbig]

I get angry that we (LBS) are going through same issues as MLC spouse.  We are growing older, struggling with lost youth and dreams.  We to have that.  Not to admit wrongdoing to us as through we are parents instead of spouse, hurts.  That is where I have been, treated as a mother.  I want to act immature and have fun as well.  I am tired of feeling as though I caused any of this by being laid back in my marriage, by trusting.  In trusting I have lost faith in love.  I have now, but I am working to get it back.  In church on Sunday the pastor changed his original plans for his day.  I felt like it was for me, but I didn't tell him.  He asked for anyone struggling with any kind of pain to come forward.  I went and H didn't follow, which was good for me, he thinks I have no problems.  I asked them to pray thta I believe in love again and can find the strength to believe I am worthy of being loved.  I could bash myself here and say why I shouldn't be loved, but that isn't going to help me.  My parents were hard on me as a child.  My brother was always in trouble and they had to take "extra" care of him, so when I had issues, I kept them to myself or took them to friends.  I have always counted on friends.  Probably to much.  Most of my biggest issues are from my feelings of inadequacy.  I do believe if we don't fight it, we can become jaded, I recently met a woman in her early 50's and she is a "manhater" which scares me I don't want to be in that boat.  EVER!  I love men.  I have also come to another idea for me personally.  My h and I are the same age, if I had married someone a decade older than me, we might be the same age mentally.  I think men stop maturing in their 40's.  I think they forget to grow.  Women are always "working on somethingon themselves" but men, if they are, it is physical work they are doing on themselves.  They don't read "how to love your mate" or any other self help books on improving communication with someone you love.  If in fact they are capable of love at that age.  I don't know.  I am still so unsure, but I know working on ourselves and trying to make ourselves better cannot be a bad thing, right?

[kappy]

Hrtnnig, I totally agree with you. I get frustrated and flustered.  Y do we have to go through this pain because we r mature enough to know what our priorities r!!!   Not fair.   But I guess we really don't have a choice right now if we want to save our marriage!!   But it sucks!!!!

[Dontgiveup]

hrtnbig

The feelings you have are normal for an LBS.  The things you refer to can happen to men or women.  I am a male LBS.  The lack of emotional development that is MLC happens to both men and women.

I am very much capable of loving my ex-wife, even now.....but that doesn't mean I don't hurt from the feeling of being abandoned.  It is frustrating.  Like RCR writes, our spouse's/partner's MLC will likely be the hardest thing we ever deal with.

[BonBon]

hrtnbig,
I can hear alot of what you said coming out of my own mouth.  I always loved men, never jumped on the man-bash wagon, but I will admit, for the first time ever, I almost did due to my H's MLC.  I've just been put through the wringer too many times, by too many men.  Finally, I marry my dream man and for 12 years, smooth sailing.  Then this.  But finding these forums made me realize this isn't a "man" thing but a human thing, regardless of gender.  I'm glad for that in the sense that I didn't ever want to hate men. 

With all that said, my patience for this MLC issue is not true patience but faked for the sake of getting through it with hopefully an in tact marriage.  To be honest, I have very little compassion for the MLCer.  I'm 3 years older than my H and as a woman, I know that my "time in the sun" in terms of being "attractive" has a much shorter shelf life than a man's due to societal ways and I resent that. 
I'm turning 50 this year and he's barely more than 45 and yet I have to coddle him?  Are you kidding?  So I get where you're coming from. 

And although I don't know you, I would strongly guess you are worthy of love.  Very  few creatures in this world aren't...and I don't even know who they might be.  If that is an issue for you prior to the MLC, it has the potential to get worse because the LBS gets the crap kicked out of them esteem wise.  Don't let it happen.  You deserve love and hapiness as much as anyone.  Don't forget it.