[MyBrainIsBroken]

Massage sounds like a great suggestion. If not for Barbie, then for me.

How the human race is still even managing through all the many stressors of life today, I don’t even know.

Amen!

OMG, Brain, same thing happened to me today...how we write our own prescriptions of ephinany right? Hmm, this journaling stuff might work...just with extra free HS brains 

Treasur, you're giving away my secret. 

I suspect a lot of what I share on here may seem inappropriate and far too personal but I admit to using this forum as a form of interactive journaling to help me to make sense out of the things that I've been learning. That's why I had to leave for a while, because I was getting uncomfortable with sharing so much information about myself, and that's why I had to return, because I have no other outlet for my thoughts and questions.

Thunder, thanks for sharing the sad but great story about the lesson your children had to learn.

[Anon]

I know that not everyone has "anger" to let go of. Some need to let go of fear or  deep paralyzing hurt. Maybe its depression for some . We all have something that needs to be gone after an experience with a MLC'er. What are you trying to "let go of" and how are you doing that?"  I really want to know .

Barbie - I also feel stuck on anger and have had many discussions about it with my therapist.   I’m done with my M but I am tormented by the intrusive angry thoughts.  I fear it will destroy me if I don’t find a way let it go.  There clearly will be no lasting peace until I do.

So,,,this is where the discussion led and I didn’t like it,,,still don’t, but this therapist is really good so I am going to do what he asks.   Read a book.    The title is Forgiveness by Simon and Simon.  Ugh,,I know.   I have resisted saying there is no way I am ready to Forgive.   He says he is not asking me to forgive but just read the book, that’s all.

So I have cracked the book.  I am not far into it but I can see already that the forgiveness that this book is talking about is NOT what we all typically think of when it comes to forgiveness.  It’s different and after reading the little I have, I am interested in continuing because I am getting a hint of the release that’s possible to achieve.   It still sticks in my throat but I’ll read a bit more.

I have been seeing this therapist for awhile now and what initially brought me in was my unrelenting anger and the intrusive thoughts that go with it.  Early on he mentioned this book briefly but said it was for a bit later in therapy.   So I guess he understands that even a hint of forgiveness is a bitter pill to swallow and one must be ready to consider it.  I guess he now thinks I might be ready to receive the message it contains.   I’m not so sure but ,,,,I’ll read it.   Nothing to lose.  I am intrigued though.

[Mortesbride]

Hmm this a tough one.

I always thought there are two types of anger (perhaps more). You got cold icy anger, that is passive agressive, giving silent treatments, making snarky comments...sitting just below the surface simmering away and eating at you.  Then I think I have a very different type of anger. An almost...red hot fury at times.

My anger almost always stems from
1. Feeling deeply hurt
2. Seeing injustice
3. Cowardice

As you can imagine it was going off like a ticking bomb at the beginning of this journey. 

My anger is never really a 'sit in it and stew situation' although I do get this sort of...''annoying bee stage'' as I call it. Where everything just seems to irritate you, when you are waiting for the idiot to do something dumb and tick you off. That type of anger seems to happen around days when I think about one of the three above.

But when my anger comes it COMES. Red hot rage at times for some of the things he did. Overall though I would say this was only about 4 times in our relationship, all within the year of BD.

What's my point you ask?

I find it easier to actually let yourself feel the rage, and try your hardest to channel it. Punch the $h!te out of the pillow, or go to boxing, or burn an old love letter...or just scream and cry or whatever.

And then when it is all out...I am all good for a long time.

Anger doesn't always have to be a bad thing. Sometimes it can be exactly what you need, to do the thing you need to do.

[terra]

I find it easier to actually let yourself feel the rage, and try your hardest to channel it. Punch the $h!te out of the pillow, or go to boxing, or burn an old love letter...or just scream and cry or whatever.

This is so smart/wise — let yourself feel it, then do something with it as your body is asking you to. A lot of relief can be had in allowing the body to follow through with its instinctive natural responses or reflexes. Like putting your hands up to fend off “attack”, or throwing something “away” or off. Fetal position (which probably we all are pretty familiar with even if we don’t admit it out loud) or hugging oneself, needed gestures of comfort that may not be coming from others at the times we most want or need. Strong actions like swimming or running or weight lifting, or simple constructive “hard work” ones like clearing the yard, moving old things out of house or garage, cleaning up, cooking (self nurturing).

There’s been study on the more aggressive gestures, though, and it’s thought now that punching pillows etc. may serve to keep anger going rather than just discharging and releasing it. So that solution may deepen or even intensify the anger groove. If that seems true for you, it’s worth looking at the emotions underneath the anger or rage, and maybe seek to express or console those deeper or hidden vulnerable ones. In my house, we have luck with countering anger or rage with actions or textures or practices that soften, are gentle, are quietly supportive of the mind that is hurt and feeling unrest.

And this may sound dumb, but, you’re never too old for a beautiful cozy stuffed animal. Sometimes it’s the inner child who is most hurt, and it’s ok for you to comfort and appease that inner youngest you with a thing of sweetness and simple care. A living pet may be a better choice on some level but the nice thing about a loved stuffie is that your inner child (or your suffering adult self) is not tasked with the responsibility of daily feeding, watering, and cleaning up after it.

Inner child may have got a bad rap for a long time in family or culturally. But it’s worth listening to hear which age of you hurts the most. The youngest expression of you is probably preverbal and mostly mute — not because shamed or anything bad, but because developmentally that youngest you was so young that it didn’t and still doesn’t know or have language. So that one may communicate in the body gestures or physical responses/reactions or impulses. And when it does, it may do so with incredible force or strength. Everyone around you (family, friends, health professionals, the world) may see this as acting out. It’s actually just an aspect of you that needs care, the gentle kind a good caregiver would give.

We may not have any model of good caregiver in our upbringing. That doesn’t mean you aren’t one yourself! So if some part of you is crying out visibly or deep in your core the way a hurt, angry, afraid child might, and if it feels uncontrolled, over the top, and inconsolable — it’s not any of those things. You are a good person and a good and gentle heart: you know EXACTLY how to nurture and calm that hurt or fright. Just treat you WELL, and with the same compassion you would give to the youngest person you have ever known and loved.

I think so much of recovery is about coming to know and console and integrate all the hurt parts of ourselves. It seems cliche or canned when anyone advises that we should love ourself first in order to have solid reliable love with others? But maybe a better way of saying it is that it’s important we know how to take good care of ourselves when anyone else isn’t on hand to relate to for certain things.

That said, sometimes it does feel best to take the anger out on a punching bag or kickboxing class, or by breaking or burning something. I also have felt satisfied after time at a shooting range, but honest to God, I feel a real need to be very cautious with that, as sometimes I have been THAT angry, the kind that makes you understand how people snap and commit terrible violence. And I hope it’s safe to say that here, because it’s the truth and I think it’s one of the most frightening aspects of betrayal, the raw primitive things that fly through our minds afterward. What I’ll offer is that for me it was good to channel that in a safe and structured arena, in a setting of skill and achievement. That way, it was both discharged and safely contained. Others may find similar satisfaction with bashing balls in a batting cage or golf range, or even at a pool table.

And the act of burning — old journals worked for me — can satisfy the urge or need or wish to “destroy” something or to rid yourself of it. This can be a very intentional release and almost like a physical prayer. You examine it, review it in full (or not), acknowledge the lessons learned in it, GIVE THANKS to the lessons, the object, and to the you that you were when you first owned or wrote it, and then gently set it on fire and just tend it until it is nothing but ashes. And then sweep and bury the ashes, or pour water over them and cleanse them away. I burned a number of old journals and writings this year and I can’t tell you what a relief it was to rid myself and my life of so much heaviness, naïveté, and past confusion. I don’t regret it. I learned a lot in those years, but the lessons have been fully learned, and there’s no value in my keeping records of those experiences anymore. They aren’t aligned with who I am now.

Thank you for letting me go on about it in your thread. I’m doing so just in case my examples spark something for you; I know we all have different ways of doing and surviving, but my hope is that as we share specifics, we may realize we have both opportunity and permission to experiment with other ways too.

The main idea is to feel it, and if you find action may help discharge or release it, find what works for you. I really do think we all are very well rounded people and that even if we are angry, even over the top or angry “all the time”, that’s a human response to this level and type of trauma, and it’s to be accepted and companioned and worked through with love and patience.

Thanks Mortesbride for a super wise set of thoughts.

[OffRoad]

What I am seeing here is that anger can be triggered by different things from different people. Morte's examples were 1. Feeling deeply hurt 2. Seeing injustice 3. Cowardice

None of those make me angry, although seeing injustice and having no control over overcoming it would. Seeing injustice and being able to do something about it would not make me angry. (It makes me motivated to change the situation) Feeling hurt makes me sad. True cowardice makes me feel disgust.(self protection is not necessarily cowardice )  This is my mileage only. My point is that it is different than Morte's

So, what is it that is making you angry, Barbie? Specifically, does it come out of "nowhere", is it a memory that triggers it, or is there something that happend that causes it? Is it something it the past you cannot change, hence why you want to let it go, or is it something that yet can be changed, hence the difficulty of letting go.

Example, not knowing where the money went. Are you angry because it is gone (nothing can be done, need to let go of the fact it cannot be changed)  or angry because you don't know what happened to it (something COULD be done, it COULD be changed but isn't and may never be and you want to let go of the lack of control you have over never getting that information or want to let go of your anger at your H's unwillingness to divulge the information or you want to let go of even giving a rat's pattootie about it)

I think knowing where your anger is most coming from would help with letting go. It would in my case. In the above money example, I would be able to let the anger over what cannot be changed go by figuring out what I could do ( could I make extra money myself, or put some money in a special account that no one but me could touch). Letting go of anger at things that do not have to be that way, but I have no control over, is harder. Some people can "let go, let God", just turn it over to their belief system and it works for them.  It's a trust thing. But if you are angry at a person and you don't trust them, can you let the anger go? How can you trust it won't happen again,  you have no idea what steps the other person is or is not taking to make sure it does not happen again. This is why transparency is so important. It's hard to trust when you are left in the dark. And no one has reason to leave another in the dark unless they are hiding something. And if something is being hidden, where's the trust on the hider's side? So if someone does not trust you enough to tell you what they did, mutual trust becomes difficult,  if not impossible. Having no trust can equal anger. Just a thought.

To wrap up my wandering thought process,  might it help to look at letting go of specific anger first, then work your way to overall anger as being the go to emotion, or conversely figuring out why anger is the go to emotion? What does anger get you that sadness, or disappointment or any other negative emotion does NOT get you? If it's just physical release, MBIB'S suggestion of punching bag might be useful (do they still make the blowup clowns you can punch?).  If it's something else, you might want to figure that out.

[Songanddance]

I think knowing where your anger is most coming from would help with letting go.

Exactly. I suggested the same above.  Identify what exactly, specifcally, precisely makes you angry. That can often take time.

General anger is sometimes tiredness and emotional exhaustion and on 4 hours sleep a night - you are a prime candidate for this.   Along with menopause symptoms and some women feel extreme irritation much of the time. 

So can you separate the general anger that is sleep deprived and menopausal frustration from the more specific and anger making issues that you have often talked about - your mother depriving you of your emotional needs, your H betraying you, your H and the money etc..... 

What of those aspects of your life do you know you will have no control over?  OR makes a good point - the money is gone.  You can do no more about what happened to it and, is choosing to remain angry or hurt over it your choice, or does it suggest your need to control tempered with the fact that you had no control upsets you?   

All the suggestions in previous posts are excellent suggestions from a soft toy to phsyical venting to just having a bloody good cry and not being afraid to do so.
Anger is processed in so many ways.
Letting go is a process and we are all different in how we learn to do this.

Are you afraid to let go Barbie?  There is a sense of gentle irony here - by letting go you feel as though you lose control (although in fact you gain so much more control of self) so is the controlling aspect of your nature seeking a controllable method of letting go.  I'm explaining this badly but sometimes when we feel the need to ask it's because we're afraid to do it unless we can do it in a way that works.... that shows a need to control.

Hopefully you can make sense of what I'm saying.....

[Treasur]

There is a strange wisdom in the idea that what we resist, persists...even if we don't want to resist it exactly. Just like Song says, there is a funny point where we want to let go AND don't want to let go at the same time. Letting our own inner voice and instinct show us a bit more about why we might NOT want to let go is sometimes where the letting go key hides in my experience.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Hi Barbie,

I just came across an article that I thought was interesting because it stated that chronic anger can be a form of dissociative episode. I get foggy when I dissociate but the article said that for some people anger is how they disconnect.

I also ran across an article that ties into what Treasur wrote. The article states that chronic anger is often due to buried anger that is being repressed. Since the rightful anger is being repressed you end up with a kind of constant, free flowing anger that's easily activated. That might be worth discussing with your therapist.

Anger Mismanagement
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evil-deeds/200901/anger-mismanagement

Here's the article that addresses rage as a form of dissociation.

WHAT DOES IT ACTUALLY MEAN TO HAVE A DISSOCIATIVE EPISODE?
https://www.wellandgood.com/good-advice/what-does-dissociation-feel-like/

[barbiedoll]

I am overwhelmed with the responses . I have only responded to half of them, but am working thru all your words of wisdom. I appreciate it, I learn from you all and I force myself to look deeper , push harder and find some answers. I will continue to respond but felt I needed to post this part before I write a book.

There is always the option of pool noodle fights.....🤷‍♀️
Smash houses....(places you can go and smash things) although for this I would need to mentally make each item I smashed a certain thing or issue I was angry about and only then once I had smashed it to bits would I feel better.
Go scream!
Take some kickboxing.

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Thanks Couragedearheart...The issue I have with this is my anger or rage comes over me in a millisecond and I am so overwhelmed , so unpredictable ...I just want to "leave". Desperately feel "flee". I do not believe I could "manufacture" this feeling , make an appointment at a "smash house" and go there and "be angry". I cannot "make it happen" at all. I would need to have something at the time , that I could even "think" to access and actually go do it. I could not ( for example) go into my garage and smash things to get the anger out ...unless I was triggered and already in that space. I do like the "calm" place and at times I do think about my "safe" place that I use during EMDR.

MBIB.. a "punching bag" would be a good plan . I do know that I need a "physical"  release to deal with my anger. It would be wiser and more mature that smashing anything I can get my hands on. I would need some practise at walking away from a "fight/argument/trigger and actually going to the punching bag.

Offroad…

Back in the day, I would run or bike to burn off angry energy. But that didn't solve the actual problem that caused the anger and the anger would reappear.

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Absolutely. It always comes back, always builds up and I have to start all over again. Sometimes I have been sooo explosive that I think .."good, its gone now. ". It is never gone. I know that the day my therapist handed me a bat and I beat a huge huge pillow for 20 minutes and screamed out so much pain...I thought I was done with it. It came back.

All I could do was distract myself,

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If I know something is going to truly hit a trigger and I am going to react … (sometimes I know) , I can steer myself away from the reaction. I can stay away from the conversation, until I feel stable and have thought about how I will respond. If I can truly see that I am in dangerous space, I can distract and just leave it. I do not know if becoming avoidant is the answer. ..but I do choose to disengage and go colour or yoga .

Nerissa...thanks soo much for the links and books. I devour this kind of stuff and always believe I will "find" an answer to whatever ails me. I so appreciate it and will be looking at all of it.

When I first experienced a physical sense of letting it go without using books etc to change my thinking, I felt a sense of ‘lowering’. It was a sense of deep sadness which I had been guarding against with fury.  It was painful but also a relief and felt kind of peaceful.  I think this is surrender.

.

I think it is surrender as well. I know I have such profound and deep sadness. Just reading this ..givesme a huge lump in my throat. I reacted to this because I think it is true. There is such raw sorrow to be felt and I rage it away. This is what I suspect. I am afraid of that pain I think . I just cannot even consider feeling it.

Apart from anger over infidelity and mlc, I am quite ‘fighty’ about things and I’ve learned I use impatient or irritable ways when I am frustrated in any way, I have a touch of what I call ‘small
Dog syndrome’.  But I do not generally have a problem with anger - it was more, in a day to day sense, learning about more gentle communication. 

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This is me . I am very "fighty", intolerant, irritable, easily frustrated. I thought it was a side-effect of having so much anger sitting inside. I have spent years trying to learn and present a gentler communication style. I am very blunt, intimidating ( even when I am totally unaware of it) and aggressive. I am angry through and through and feels like my masculine side has dominated my female side. I do struggle with feeling feminine ( if that makes sense) as I am always "on-guard", protective of myself and "ready" for something bad to happen. It does not nurture whatever feminine spirit I might have left inside. A few too many "$h!te-kicks" for me. It hardens a person.

Treasure

I don't know what it is like to physically experience that kind of anger in the way you describe. But I absolutely know what it is like to physically feel a kind of overwhelming wordless kind of Fear...and my physical description of that would be quite similar. It does feel like me and not me, something not always in my control, something other. And that is rather frightening too.

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I do think some of my anger is rooted in deep fear. In fact I am fairly certain of it. What are we afraid of? I am afraid to love him ever again. I am afraid of the risk you have to take to love someone. I can feel "firetruck you" on the tip of my tongue. I am afraid of alot of things involving relationships now.

Do you want to 'let it go' or do you want to 'remove it' from your life? I ask bc I think they are a different kind of shift. The first is maybe more like opening your metaphorical hand. The second more like pushing something out with your metaphorical hand perhaps. Do you know which it feels like? Or something else indeed?

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Interesting. I want to experience acceptance …I think. That "bad" things happen, that things go wrong, that people change and that life sometimes hurts. It is the truth for every single human being. Everyone struggles at times . Everyone hurts at times. I am not unique..this has happened to millions of women . ( and men) . I just want to be done with it ..every part of it. Accept that this happens in life, people do bad things sometimes , I am not alone in this and it does not have to be an absolute catastrophy . It does not have to be the end of everything....I sometimes tell myself " get over it!" . I want to accept, process and let go of it . I want to move forward, back into my life. I feel outside of my own life , afraid to just "be" and stop being afraid.  There are far worse situations that people struggle with .

It sounds as if you feel that a kind of rage, either suppressed or unleashed, has been a companion for a long time including before the events of the last few years? Do you feel it is a PTSD type of thing? If so, research suggests that addressing it physically may help. Acupuncture seems to have a good track record...and building on your Reiki experience that might be worth a try. Trauma really does live in our bodies imho, much more than in our cognitive brain. It is imho almost impossible to 'think' your way out of trauma.

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I have done battle with anger off and on for a long time. Perhaps most of my adult life. I have not experienced this kind of rage ever before in my life. Ever. It is tangled up in feelings of rejection and emotional dissconnection with my mother . My husband BD, abandonment and rejection hit something buried so deep in my inner child that ..it was like an emotional execution indeed. I do believe that others that do not have thier own wounds of abandonment etc …do not utterly want to die when this happens.
That is uncomfortable and even embarrassing to write...but I wanted to die. How sad is that ? I was already deeply wounded somehow and his betrayal of me was life changing in every part of me . My daughter # 4 once said to me .." You are like a cuddly soft poodle disguised as a nasty mean pit bull ". She was correct. I absolutely 100 % lives in our bodies. I can feel immidiate physical reactions to thoughts, words, reminders, triggers and even thinking about what "might" happen. No, you can never fully think your way out of emotional trauma . Maybe the best you can do is find a way to "feel" differently about the emotional scar. I do not know .

What does anger give you as a gift, Barbie? How does/did it help you survive?

.

 Anger is utter and pure energy . I have enough energy to serve a dozen people. I am a workhorse
 Anger makes me feel like people will rarely  Firetruck with me. Even my "aura" is angry
 Anger makes me feel like I do have some power or "say" afterall
 Anger keeps feelings of fear away.  If my anger is bigger than the fear …then I don’t feel it (?)
 Anger feels like the only way to express hurt that I will be understood.
In part, I think that it is the only way I can make him feel or realize the profoundness of the pain he caused. I do not believe he will ever truly grasp the depth of  anguish. Maybe none of them will.
It keeps me from risking that there is a “safe” place/person. I have no risk left.

I honestly believe that I would have been dead without PTSD to hide me for a bit, much as I hate PTSD and resent it's effects on my life.   

This means something to me. ..but I am not sure yet exactly what. Maybe the anger is keeping me safe in some twisted way. But it isn’t really . I will be alone in my life if this persists .

So anything I can do now that pushes it away...that shows me I don't need it now even if I did need it...actions big and small, mantras in my head about being strong and capable, every time I do something and keep the Fear away I start to make new evidence for my amygdala that I don't need the Fear to keep me safe as I did. I say to myself 'see, you don't need it now'....But it is a work in progress and I do fall over sometimes. Which is frustrating but ok as long as I keep my soul's eye on the goal and image - for me - of cutting it out and pushing it away. It used to feel like a cloak but now it feels like a much smaller kind of lump that sits in my midriff if that makes sense?

This. There is great wisdom and meaning in these words . I need to think about it more…If I exchange the word “fear” with “anger”…. It gives me an action plan. Something that might be a place to start.  I am really so tired..and look at the work that still needs doing.

Nerissa…Thanks for the links!. I appreciate it and will be looking at them in depth.

[barbiedoll]

Perhaps identifying all the causes of your anger - from the specific to the general and writing them all down and then trying to order them in terms of highly stressful to just irritating is a good way to start.

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I do agree that narrowing down the causes or triggers that create such ragefull reactions is a great point. To actually pay attention to the exact thought or feeling and write it down. As you can imagine, it is an extremely overwhelming flooding ( at the time) and I do need to narrow it down. I know I react to any "blame" I think I hear , or might hear or perceive I hear in a stunning way. I honestly feel physical "shock" . Apparrently I frequently hear this when no blame was intended. I would say this has been my number one rage button. Silence is very provoking and scary ...I am not sure "what might be coming".  What is he going to say? What is this silence not saying? Where are the secrets hiding? . It is like expecting BD to happen...again. Horrible horrible anxiety , until I am so angry. I know it is hypervigilance as part of PTSD. Those are just words or explanation...its a special kind of hell to live in.  Feeling "not heard " or not validated ...another trigger . I do need to focus on the underlying emotions...

Your anger sounds like a trauma related stress response. When feeling stressed, threatened or unsafe, Treasur feels fear, I dissociate (freeze), it sounds like you feel anger. Three different types of stress responses but they all serve the same purpose.

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I believe this is absolutely correct. I agree with it being a trauma related response without question. Different people ..different reactions. It is all terribly damaging and painful. I just want to be "normal" again, manage my emotions and find ways to be less reactive.

The anger makes you feel safe. It protects you. What can you do to reduce the stress you're experiencing so you don't need the anger? What can you do to feel safe without the anger?

Yes. I understand it makes me feel safe. Its a defense mechanism that I need to be safe. What can I do to feel safe?  I do not know. I am not sure I ever even want to feel "safe". How would I believe it? Safe is an elusion. No one is truly safe with another person. Safe has something to do with an internal ability to trust yourself …that no matter what happens, or what another person does or how another person behaves...I will be OK.  Inside of me . That is how I see it.

Reduce the stress in your life and it could reduce the anger that you feel. Trust others to help you and it could increase your feeling of safety and reduce the anger that you feel.

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I do need to commit to physical ways to tire myself, expel some energy etc. Walking and hiking need to become a priority or going for a swim , yoga etc. I am always troubled internally and distracted from a commitment to self care . I need to get serious about my life. I just cannot get propelled in that direction. I agree without question..it would help me. I trust my sister always has good intentions for me . Not sure why I am unmotivated to do what I know would benefit me.

What can you do to you find that feeling of being safe and protected?

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I think its about believing in ME. Be safe within me, trust me . Not sure just yet how to fully get there ..and stay there .  I think there is a message in this clip...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1flG1AaMMZM

Then I wondered whether Barbie might feel the same way about giving up her anger.

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I have freely admitted that there are times I do not even try to calm down.. I have resisted calming down. I feel justified at times and there is no desire to stop. Who am I without this anger ?  I do not know anymore. Been a very long time.

I continue to respond and get all "thinky".  Thanks for all the support and input. There are answers in here somewhere .