[Jackolar12]

I would like to trust again but I’m too vulnerable to do it. I’m with gmans thoughts about being nice and sincere and attracting the wrong sort for me. I have a plan though I’ve stopped bothering with toxic people completely in real life, trouble is there’s no one around now.

I’m going to have to take the leap of faith sometime I suppose but honestly I bet I get chumped again. With this way of thinking I’m setting myself up for a fall I know but the tragedy of MLC has left a permanent emotional barrier for me to cross and I have not found a way past it as yet and it has actually got worse over time. Am I alone in this way of thinking or do others feel this way.

[Couragedearheart]

Jack,

Trust is not jumping into the deep end of the pool with both feet. It is a thing you build slowly over time with actions and deeds and words. It requires consistency.

Vulnerability is anything you disclose that requires risk without the ability to control the outcome. Not the amount of the disclosure.

So if you have established trust in small things then I may be vulnerable and share something with you...and see if you are worthy of trust.

Prior I used to trust without much thought....now trust is something to be earned, slowly but surely.

[Jackolar12]

Jack,

Trust is not jumping into the deep end of the pool with both feet. It is a thing you build slowly over time with actions and deeds and words. It requires consistency.

Vulnerability is anything you disclose that requires risk without the ability to control the outcome. Not the amount of the disclosure.

So if you have established trust in small things then I may be vulnerable and share something with you...and see if you are worthy of trust.

Prior I used to trust without much thought....now trust is something to be earned, slowly but surely.

Yes I agree with all of this, it just takes the first tentative steps to try it out and that’s where I freeze unfortunately, never had a problem in the past but MLC trauma cuts deep emotionally especially if your a sensitive type to start with.

[KeepItTogether]

Yes I agree with all of this, it just takes the first tentative steps to try it out and that’s where I freeze unfortunately, never had a problem in the past but MLC trauma cuts deep emotionally especially if your a sensitive type to start with.

Yes we are definitely damaged goods right now. That is why they say that we all need to heal before jumping into a new R. That you are afraid tells me you aren't ready...like so many of us. Like most of us to be honest. I firmly believe that if/when the right person comes along (MLCer or other), that we will know it. But the scars do run deep and we are more guarded for it. Doesn't mean the damage is permanent. Just that we know things now. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. And truly the main person we have to learn to trust is ourselves.   

[Finding Joy]

I know I am for sure not ready to trust anyone new.  I have noticed that I have kept everyone new at a distance this past year and only let my tried and true friends in.

It takes time to heal enough to be vulnerable, and I know for me, trust will have to be built brick by brick. 

[barbiedoll]

Rebuilding trust is an extremely daunting challenge. What was utterly destroyed in a 2 minute revelation will take years to restore ...if ever. I do not believe trust is a decision. It is about observing consistent and repeated ( maybe a thousand times) behaviors, words ,promises that are kept, doing what you say you are going to do, honesty ..well, the list could go on. It is doing these things over and over and over that could lay a foundation to give a person the gift of trusting them. Its hard hard work. It is never failing to do these things or you risk starting all over again.

Trust to me is like a pie cut into 8 pieces. I trust my husband will NEVER go near OW again. I do not trust him fully with money . I trust he will NEVER cause harm to our children as long as he breathes. I do not trust that everything he says is the truth. I do trust he is 100% committed to our marriage ...but I do not trust he will ever be "emotionally trustworthy " in terms of expressing his true "self" . I guess that means vulnerable and emotionally open. I will never trust he will tell me how he "feels"...and that is a hard way to live. My trust "pie" will never be whole. There will always and forever be pieces missing. So I have learned to cautiously trust some parts , but other parts require trust ...and then verify.

I have made a purposeful decision to never trust fully again. I do not WANT to. I do not strive for it , I do not work to trust and I do not feel I ever will. It makes me feel safe this way. The magic is in trusting myself fully, completely and without fear. No matter what another person does , I trust that I can handle it, I am stronger now and I will be ok.

When my husband broke my trust in him , the entire world changed . I did not trust anybody . I did not "fit" in the world anymore, I was extremely suspicious and hypersensitive to any sign that "might" be a lie or a betrayal ...in every single person I had a relationship with. The absolute worst fight I ever had with my sister was because I had a very extreme reaction to what I saw as a betrayal. It was not ...but seeing things thru a wound changes everything. It is extrodinarily difficult to manage many relationship in my life now. I get a lump in my throat when I type this ...loosing trust in someone that you believed would always and forever "have your back" is one of a human beings greatest tragedies. They know not the permanent injury they cause to another .

I understand that there are times in life that we need to stop pursuing "change" and move to utter acceptance and decide if that is where we can live. My husband was so deeply traumatised as a child, so betrayed , abused and abandoned that he NEVER developed the capacity to trust . He was weaned on fear and terror and unpredictability ...trust never existed as it often does not in children of extreme abuse and trauma. He does not trust ME . He has no capacity to trust ...yet ( so they tell me) Its hard to learn these things in counselling about childhood trauma , brain development, emotional maturity that is stunted, deep shame and broken identity . He has "preformed " his way thru life ...and I may never know who he truly is .  An inability to be vulnerable, show himself, be emotionally transparent and take risks...that I am a "safe" person may never happen. But it might . Deciding if that is "enough" ..is the question at hand. Ohhhh….the places I have been in the past 5 years. Hard hard places.

[OffRoad]

I would like to trust again but I’m too vulnerable to do it. I’m with gmans thoughts about being nice and sincere and attracting the wrong sort for me. I have a plan though I’ve stopped bothering with toxic people completely in real life, trouble is there’s no one around now.

I’m going to have to take the leap of faith sometime I suppose but honestly I bet I get chumped again. With this way of thinking I’m setting myself up for a fall I know but the tragedy of MLC has left a permanent emotional barrier for me to cross and I have not found a way past it as yet and it has actually got worse over time. Am I alone in this way of thinking or do others feel this way.

This is where the trust in yourself comes in. Can you handle whatever the outcome if you put yourself out there? If I ask someone out and they say no, can I handle it? If I try to start up a conversation and they shut  me down, can I handle it? If I go out on a coffee date and really like the person, but they don't like me, can I handle it? None of those has anything to do with trusting someone else.

Vulnerability and trust are two different things. Vulnerability says I'm going to see if you are worthy of my time or if we can connect or if I can help you in any way. You do not have to trust to be vulnerable, just be willing to accept whatever happens. You don't have to trust any one else. Now if you want to say you have to trust yourself, that you can handle whatever comes to you, that makes sense to me.

This is soooo interesting....... so you're saying that you can be vulnerable without trust? That would be a very interesting thought to me as I always believed in the inverse.... you must trust to be vulnerable. If I don't trust someone, they can't hurt me because I'm not vulnerable (that's just me).

Could you explain more?

-SS

Yesterday, I had my kid's old playset removed (it was very large). The company called and said they'd remove it. I didn't pay them in advance, I waited until it was removed because they had not yet earned my trust, but I did make myself vulnerable by allowing them onto my property when I had  no idea who these people were, if they were in fact reputable or would do a proper job. I didn't trust they would do a proper job, they had to show me.

They did an excellent job, and before I paid them (and eventually tipped them), I asked if they had enough room for an old lawnmower and an old freestanding punching bag (get one for anger management, really) and how much extra it would cost. They gave a fair cost and I agreed and wrote the check. As one of them went to arrange space in the truck and the other loaded up the tools, I started to see if I could move some debris out of the way. The man came back and said "Please, I have taken your money, I will do the entire job and that includes getting the lawnmower out of the debris." That man just earned my trust that he would do a good job,and he earned a good tip. He and his partner were surprised and pleased, I was surprised and pleased, and they are looking forward to my calling again (because I still have a lot of junk to go). I am looking forward to seeing them again, because I know they will do what they say and it will be a good job.

For me, this is true in all aspects of m y life. I trust ME to handle what comes my way. I don't trust or expect someone I do not know and have no experience with to do what is in my best interest because they have absolutely zero idea what I want or what might be in my best interest until I tell them what I want or need. If they cannot manage that, no trust is given that they can: keep their word, do what is asked, know when to apologize and say " I thought I could do this but I can't", come up with their own plan that might be better, anything. We do not know each other, there is no trust YET.

What kind of trust do you have in the individual you have just met if you ask them out? That they will say yes? Turn you down with courtesy? Be a decent human being? That isn't trust, it's hope, because you don't know what the person's ability is. You don't know them. If you do know them, then how vulnerable are you if you know what they will do? Not much risk there, you have already established some level of trust based on past interactions.

This is not to say that some people can't have blind trust that everyone is wonderful and nothing bad will ever happen to them (I don't know anyone for whom that consistently works out, but there could be someone). I have my Pollyanna Offroad days. You CAN trust in someone else's ability even if you don't know if they are capable at all. It's a choice for sure, but an emotional one, not a logical one.

Vulnerable, to me is I reach out in Friendship. How the other person reacts is how I gauge how much I can trust them.

[OffRoad]

And guys, I don't think sincerity is the off putting quality. I'd be more inclined to think that frustration, desperation or neediness would be more off-putting than sincerity, unless the "sincerity" is peppered with judgment (only you will know if you feel that way or not). Please take this in the spirit it is intended, the attitude that all the women you meet are losers comes across when you meet people you might want to connect with. Maybe re-framing the attitude to "I haven't had very good luck yet, but someone that is right for me will turn up." could help a bit. Just a suggestion, I certainly haven't found a romantic partner that is right for me, so what do I know?

[OffRoad]

I have made a purposeful decision to never trust fully again. I do not WANT to. I do not strive for it , I do not work to trust and I do not feel I ever will. It makes me feel safe this way. The magic is in trusting myself fully, completely and without fear. No matter what another person does , I trust that I can handle it, I am stronger now and I will be ok.

Exactly that.

You, Barbiedoll, are vulnerable every day of your life with your H because there are pieces of the pie you are not sure you can trust. Maybe one day your H will show with actions that you can trust him with money, but that will be hard earned by him. And since it is your life, being wary is a survival skill based on past behaviors. But where you stand now, your trust in in your own strength is what allows you to be vulnerable, imo. You control yourself. Hard won and well done.

[Standing Strong]

Very interesting....... I must be some sort of mutant 

I trust everyone...... when I'm let down, that trust diminishes and can get close to zero, but never zero.
When someone lets me down, or breaks that trust, then I feel I need to forgive them for hurting me or letting me down. Hopefully in time they will work their way back up. Usually yes, once in a while no.
If they do come around, and I've forgiven them...... I can't remember the transgression. *poof*
And a lot of the time, I have to make the 1st move to heal something that I didn't break.

Example: There's this lady I work with...... and she can be a nightmare. She was borderline on hatred of me..... for no real reason. Some sort of projection. My team hated her. My/her contemporaries don't like her..... no one likes her. Untrustworthy, 1st to point fingers at others, mean, insecure.... the whole nine yards. I think most were just waiting for her to fall on her face and be removed from the position.
I'm her equal.... I run a division, and she runs another one. She isn't over me and I'm not over her. We have the same boss. I've seen her attack our boss (to the bosses face).
So I looked at this person and thought to myself "here's someone in pain, scared, no  friends...... what is life like for her?". So I took her out to coffee, out of the blue. Told her I was sorry for whatever I did in the past and that I wanted a new future. That I would make her a priority in my world, and help her when she needed it. She responded.... positively..... and we tried a new start. I trust her. After all the nasty things she's said, and all the mean things she's done, and all the blame she's thrown my way (and my team's way), I trust her. Not 100% when we were at the lowest, but I trust her now. She has my full benefit of the doubt. She can let me down again, she can blame me unjustly, or say something negative.... that's her choice. I choose to see the good and the potential good in her, and I'll help her get there and be that.
After talking with her, taking her to coffee and extending the olive branch..... amazing things happened: My boss was so happy that I stepped forward and solved her (my bosses) problem. I talked to our contemporaries and we all started including her. All my contemporaries said they had serious problems with this person and they can written her off.... but because I had taken that leap of faith, they would too. We all go to lunch together now, and the mean woman is trying to soften. It's not easy for her, it's a process..... but everything she's working on, and everyone she works with, sees a change. Why? A choice to trust. She could have refused me, rejected my offer, been ugly.... but the offer shocked her. The decision to trust was unexpected, and everyone watching was like  but it worked.

She is moving at baby steps, I'm earning her trust slowly.... and that's fine. Most people are that way. No problem with that. She must have been burned bad somewhere in the past to be like that. That's ok, she'll grow. Is what I did being vulnerable?  Yes, but only because I gave trust, wiped the slate clean, fresh start in my eyes.  She can do what's right or what's wrong and that's her choice. Has nothing to do with me. I find that if I trust 100%, that comes across in speech, body language, intuition, whatever. What I give I expect in return (eventually, they can move slowly) but what I give is evident and people respond to that. Unguarded. Honest. Caring. Genuine. It has a profound accept on people, especially those that seek to hurt. They're just hurting, sad, unloved people.

Loved the explanations.... thought I'd give mine too. 

-SS