[Nerissa]

Thanks for these posts Marvin.  I think there is so much to recognise  in what you explain.

[xyzcf]

Very good post Marvin.

MLC is a catastrophic event for the person in crisis.

I agree that there is absolutely nothing that you can do to change the course of the crisis. I do however have a different take on the way I respond and treat my husband. You wrote:

I believe the reason what we do has no impact is the same as above, they are drowning at the bottom of giant ocean with large blocks of concrete at their feet, so us giving them tiny floatation devices or bailing out a couple of buckets of water is not going to make a difference. But I think when they are at their limit and anything we do that increases the pressure that has already become intolerable CAN be quite negative. So sadly we can't help even if we want to, but boy can we make it much worse.

When I read this earlier, I thought about my days as a Coronary Intensive Care nurse. The damage done to the heart muscle was not something I could do anything about. There was however a standing order for all patients to receive a back rub at least twice a day. The back rub was not going to fix their heart but it did have benefits for the patient.

I have heard that some MLCers when they resolve their crisis do remember when their spouse has shown them kindness. That may be why we sometimes refer to the LBSer as the "Lighthouse" or that the MLCer is "anchor checking". Mine definitely watches me and the rebuilding of my life has been a positive one. Things that I have involved myself with that he is quite proud of.

The person I am, the person I was is not unkind to others. I also try and practice what my faith tells me...mainly "to love one another as I have loved you". I see the damage to my Beloved, I believe he was in a terrible and awful place.

For myself, I needed to be able to have contact with him without that contact causing me to regress as it did in the earlier years...this is how I judge how much I have healed.

If you are a LBSer who would like their spouse to return home, it may take them many false starts to get there. The door may need to be left open a crack if there is any hope that they will find their way back again.

So even though there is nothing we can do about the crisis, I do think there are some things that we can do to create a place of safety for them to find us again.....all the while, living our own life to the fullest.

[Slow Fade]

Marvin I was shaking my head in agreement while I was reading your post......totally agree.....


Xyczf, I also totally agree with you and saw that in my own situation. Bravo!

[Not Applicable]

You want to ask yourself who we lbs are? Many of us were good caring spouses and continue to be and don't really need all the lectures to show compassion and love because it is part of our intrinsic nature and deal with our spouses' illness that way

And then there are those who weren't such great spouses and got dumped. And after the fact try to compensate for all their previous faults by doing mirror work. And suddenly developing compassion and love where there was none before to try to get their spouse back

So if you look at it that way it may still break down the same way.

[Father5]

Great thread everyone.

I do think all of us have regular marrital issues. The spouse in crisis will use all of those issues against us. Hence adding to the confusion.

  No marriage is perfect but mine I thought was as good as any. The flat out crazy behavior and total lack of empathy is what gives me little doubt about MLC. Sometimes in the early days I would doubt MLC. But as I heal and look back it is clear to me something is definitely wrong with her.

  It is our anniversary today and I long to hear from her. I have no idea where she is and if she is ever coming back. I can. See what was broken in me. Her crisis has become my crisis. Broken attracts broken we both have issues to work through.

[Not Applicable]

The best thing that could be done for our spouses and those like them in the future is for doctors to take a clinical approach. Your rubbing your patients' back is a poor substitute for a doctor saving their life.

And the first step towards that is a clinical definition of mlc. I would rather my husband (and me) had never had to go through this at all than to worry about how to reconcile.

No progress will be made for future lbses who come to this forum until medical science recognizes s clearly defined cluster of symptoms in a cohort of the population not a sample of one.

This would be a great thread to do it if one could put aside one's own relationship for a moment and focus on the mlcer. Not to get them back but to define the illness

[xyzcf]

You view NYM is your view.

I write about things from my perspective which is as valid as any other’s on HS.

It is not helpful to criticize my post because you do not agree. The beauty of HS is the many observations made by posters. We can all decide for ourselves what resonates for our own situation.

[Not Applicable]

I am not disagreeing with you. I am saying your post is irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is "what is MLC?" MLC is not "How I show my spouse compassion so they might come back." Two totally different things.

You basically have one variation on a theme that you post on every single thread, regardless of whether it is relevant to the topic being discussed or not. Your views are valid, but you seem to be missing the subtleties of appropriate conversation and interaction. it's like going to a funeral and then standing up and announcing to all the attendees that your daughter just got engaged. Valid information, inappropriate time and place. You have a big bucket of stinky red herrings you keep tossing into conversations to steer them away completely from their original purpose.

[xyzcf]

I had a different view than Marvin on one aspect of what he wrote. It is often debated as to if there is anything we can do or not.

We all have the right to express our personal views on HS.

Yours is no more important than anyone else’s .

[AlvinTheMaker]

No progress will be made for future lbses who come to this forum until medical science recognizes s clearly defined cluster of symptoms in a cohort of the population not a sample of one.

Ask and ye shall receive: https://icdlist.com/icd-10/Z60.0

This particular ICD version is currently used in US only AFAIK. Here in Europe people get diagnosed with anxiety, depression, mental fatique, burnout etc etc instead.

Please note the essential part: "The code is unacceptable as a principal diagnosis."....  which is because this code is just an "umbrella term" for various other life management related diagnosticable conditions with primary ICD code happening during life-cycle transitions.

So definition of all this in laymans terms  would be very close to what I wrote at my initial response to Marvin..A crisis happening at midlife, usually related to mental issue (making us loose control of life).

You are free to exclude the relationship part from definition, but that is why all of us are here.  Whether the distruction of our relationships is because of anhedonia, anxiety, depression, menopause, whatever mental or physical condition with ICD code - we all here because of what it did to our relationships with our spouses. That is one "symptom", which has put us all into our own version of Z60.0.

For some others the crisis can come through as addiction. Or maybe as religious awakening. Or aomething else without any attachment to relationships.... And there are support forums for all these too... But what combines us all here is our marriages, and what happened to them.

Alvin