[Acorn]

   But I offer there is another version of empathy and understanding and it comes from a place of stillness and boundaries   

Good point.

Am I correct in thinking that you might be referring to healthy emotional detachment in which one can have empathy for MLCer’s suffering without being overwhelmed or feeling manipulated by him/her?

I suggest that it is important to practice understanding and empathy for oneself to erect a safety zone (stillness) and strong boundaries to uphold one’s integrity and dignity.  I suggest that is the way one learns how to practice the same toward MLCer. 

After all, even Jesus said ‘love your neighbour as yourself.’

[Treasur]

Good point too Acorn.
Empathy and understanding for oneself FIRST.....which is basic emotional self care really....tends to reduce our own emotional 'neediness'....which makes detachment and boundaries much easier....which creates the space for empathy and quiet, maybe unexpressed, understanding for others.

For some reason today, I am sad about a lot of the festive associations and bits of my old life.
In the past, when I felt sad, I would have then felt one of two other things....like a resentful victim who lost things bc my xh stole them from me....or a hurt child who was abandoned by someone who never valued these things or me. Neither were great tbh lol.
Now, I just accept that some things are lost, i feel sad about it and haven't yet reached a point when I have replaced them with new things or stopped missing them. Nothing to do with my xh at all really. I have no idea how he feels about anything as I have NC with him but were we to ever talk again, I imagine it would be much easier to understand or empathise if his feelings had nothing much to do with my feelings. It certainly makes it easier to accept his choices without feeling invested in whether they turned out well for him or not, whether he has regrets or is having the best Christmas of his life.
But part of that sometimes just requires me to say oh dear, I feel a bit sad and kindly let it pass through.

[Acorn]

Dear Treasur, I think what you are feeling is an integral part of healing process.  You are good. You are not skipping or suppressing this necessary step.

“What is LBSCrisis really, let’s not oversimplify things.’

[Treasur]

Dear Treasur, I think what you are feeling is an integral part of healing process.  You are good. You are not skipping or suppressing this necessary step.

“What is LBSCrisis really, let’s not oversimplify things.’

 

[marvin4242]

   But I offer there is another version of empathy and understanding and it comes from a place of stillness and boundaries   

Am I correct in thinking that you might be referring to healthy emotional detachment in which one can have empathy for MLCer’s suffering without being overwhelmed or feeling manipulated by him/her?

That is definitely a part of it. Empathy is the ability to feel and relate to another. But without clear and firm boundaries this empathy usually leads to us trying to fix, to help, to extend ourselves way beyond any healthy bounds. I believe empathy is the core of everything that is rich and meaningful in life, what allows us to be kind and to feel love and loved. Usually we are not encouraged to have these firm boundaries, sometimes we are told we are “selfish” if we don’t put others ahead of us.

And this is why empathy may be such a trap until we have our boundaries fully up. No contact, taking our focus off others, working on ourselves are all a chance to learn this. That is just one man’s view.

[Treasur]

And small reminder on why this stuff feels so messy...that I remember reading on an old thread...in most cases, these were nice people who went nuts

[xyzcf]

And this is why empathy may be such a trap until we have our boundaries fully up. No contact, taking our focus off others, working on ourselves are all a chance to learn this.

Boundaries are going to be very different in each situation. Whether there are children involved, if they are physically abusive, if they are not contributing financially.....and the length of time since BD plus our own temperament.

For some people, NC is necessary for them to heal.

This discussion has me thinking about what are my boundaries? I actually enjoy the time we spend together and understand his need for "space". I think, that in my case the "boundary" is that I am not the one making contact, I don't "need" anything from him and when we spend time together, he leaves and I continue as always..perhaps because I know he'll be in contact with me again.

He's in a different place in his crisis, but certainly, in my mind anyway, he's still is running and most likely has not resolved issues that caused him to run...but I have no idea really what he has worked through for we don't share personal stuff that way. One thing that I find interesting though is the things he does share with me, show me that he still trusts me very much.

Just wanting to know what others see as actual "boundaries" for them.

[rosetintedglasses]

Marvin

Thanks for starting this thread I am very much enjoying reading it, your thoughts are also the way I think and I like that.

NYM I am also very much enjoying your take on this and I think I ‘get’ what you are saying completely. If I was in a work/office environment I think I would be giving you an action to start a project group about what you are talking about! Ha ha. Hope that translates as it’s meant to! Please count me in to any group you get together to look at MLC so our children can avoid it if at all possible. FWIW I think of it like post partum depression which used to be called ‘the baby blues’ until recently when they have realised it’s a ‘proper’ thing and started making people aware of it as a possibility after having a baby. I would love to have ‘mid life crisis’ rebranded in society and made a ‘proper’ thing that people are aware of can happen at mid life. That would be stage one. Stage two, how to prevent/treat it would be the next hurdle.

Rose 🌹

[Not Applicable]

I think people on here should at least be encouraged to put their children first when dealing with the MLCer and try to shield them from as many negative aspects as possible. When you look at how many of these MLCers are re-enacting their childhood and their parents' wrongs you have to worry that the next generation is going to repeat. I would just ask every woman on here, do you want your son's wife to suffer like you did? Or your daughter's husband to suffer like you did? It's not the LBS's fault what the MLCer did but I do think how the LBS reacts can make a difference in how the kids handle it.

I'm not sure how one can shield their kids but there is plenty of research out there on ACEs that might be a good place to start. Even the CDC recently recommended that actions be taken to reduce the number of ACEs that kids are exposed in order to prevent health/psychological problems later in life.

Over the summer I got to know a 15 year old who you would have thought was 23 because he was so mature and intelligent beyond his years. But after some time I found out why. He had a horrific childhood and terrible things happened to his parents and then he was raised by people that had their own set of problems that were taken out on him and he had just moved in with some other people who seemed to be good to him as far as I could tell, but even that situation was probably precarious because they weren't his legal guardians. So he had to grow up early.

When he told me his story, I said one thing to him, my H is having a midlife crisis and I told him about some of the bad things that had happened in his childhood. I said to him point blank look, you should get some counseling to deal with everything that happened to you before you hit the age of 40 and blow up your marriage because you never dealt with all these things that happened to you as a child and you will start going out with a younger coworker for lunch who reminds you of your mother and then dump your wife for her (and I explained to him the logic of why he would do this knowing his issue with his mother, which actually involved going out to lunch!).

I even had a similar discussion with a relative. I met up with earlier this year for the first time in a couple decades. Her mother had a breakdown (possibly MLC or maybe something more) when she was 15 and she was recently married. I told her about my H and told her I hoped she had dealt with her childhood because it might happen to her too.

[marvin4242]

NYM: such a great thing to do and I really hope they heard you.