[Thunder]

Xyzcf, that is one of the most sensible posts I've read.  All of it!

Thank you!  My thoughts exactly.

[Nerissa]

Can’t resist posting this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/125219211437455769  .

[marvin4242]

So just saw about this analysis in The Guardian. It discusses various approaches about what it would take to open economy in UK, what different measures would do from best estimates, and what it would take to get economy going at what trade off. Note this is not the government position, but it is an analysis by a think tank. But the information is well presented.

https://institute.global/sites/default/files/inline-files/A%20Sustainable%20Exit%20Strategy%2C%20Managing%20Uncertainty%20Minimising%20Harm.pdf

[Treasur]

Thank you for sharing that, Marvin....looks like some good consulting type analytical and presentation skills there lol.....reminds me of some of my old work projects 

Interesting that it comes out of the Tony Blair Insitiute I think? Wonder how that will influence how others use it? But nice to see something like this that looks at some pros and cons of different options, breaks down some different objectives and types of approach even if it also raises some questions about what is actually do-able about things like testing.

[Finding Joy]

Law, I feel the exact same way!  I read your comments, but haven’t had time to read the others!  Exactly my feelings on the state of our leadership.  Well spoken.

[marvin4242]

Thank you for sharing that, Marvin....looks like some good consulting type analytical and presentation skills there lol.....reminds me of some of my old work projects 

Interesting that it comes out of the Tony Blair Insitiute I think? Wonder how that will influence how others use it? But nice to see something like this that looks at some pros and cons of different options, breaks down some different objectives and types of approach even if it also raises some questions about what is actually do-able about things like testing.

My read is this is pretty much a "state of the art" analysis of the numbers as put out by experts, and doesn't seem to have any political bias or "viewpoint." I am guessing this exact kind of analysis exists in a lot of EU and UK governments. Its just nice to get the public version behind what will most likely happen, when and how.

[Finding Joy]

Marvin, I was not speaking of those rights being infringed upon during this virus, except in a few examples.  A few churches were forced to close down drive in church’s.  Where no contact was made with others.

I absolutely believe you are slanted way to far to one side in your opinion about the virus.  We cannot ignore the economic impact.  Perhaps I understand that children will starve because I was raised in a home where we went hungry until I was taken in by another family.

To me a balance is needed.  The economy is just as important and the slow reopening done with prudence and wisdom is our only option for economic solvency.  If we don’t work for a year, we will experience a Great Depression.  We will not be able to feed our families, pay our rent.  Banks are only postponing payments for those who need it, not forgiving them.  What happens when the homeless population swells and the most vulnerable are on the streets.

So yes, from my perspective there is no winning in this and hard choices must be made.  A balanced approach that involves prudent care and behavior, but understanding people will die no matter our choices. 

Some areas need to stay closed, while others slowly open with caution.  The whole country cannot stay closed.  There should not be a one sized fits all approach.

I’m confused about your statement about our country’s policies only helping the rich!  In this last few years, our economy has soared and so has the middle class!  Those who work hard have many, many opportunities!  Those who get art degrees(or a degree that is unusable) and complain about student loans, or don’t work to learn a skill, whine about how socialism is better. 

The US is not far behind other countries.  We are a different country.  We are not yet socialist, though it seems you believe we should be.  Many of us do not want the government in charge of our lives. 

Let me give an example.  Public schools are necessary, however they take our money with high taxes, remove God from the schools and then act like public schools are free.  Well no, the $8,000 I paid in property taxes last year would disagree.  So then people cannot afford to put their children in a school with similar beliefs as their own.  I believe the government should be as minimal as possible and only be a safety net for the poor. 

I do not want high taxes and the government telling me what will be done with my money.  I want freedom and choice.

So your belief that our country is behind is not my sentiments at all.  Socialism leads to communism. 

[Thunder]

Marvin, I agree with some of what the article says, but I'm not too sure sending the kids back to school right now is the best idea.  That means they also expect teachers, school counselors, bus drivers, admin office workers, kitchen workers and custodial workers to also leave their homes and go back to work.  That's a lot of people
I don't think the kids are the issue here.

I don't believe it's going to hurt anything if the kids stay out until September.  They are doing homework at home with their parents (or teachers via the Internet) for what...maybe another month?

[marvin4242]

FJ: as I said I will stay away from political discussions. Not that I am shy but this is a support forum, we are all in this together (LBS and Covid) and our individual political opinions are our own.

But here is what I don't agree. Freedom and governmental supports are not contradictions. The role of governments, no matter where you are on a political spectrum, is to protect its citizens. With this in mind the health and economic well beings are paramount. And I for one don't disagree (as I said) that both parts are important, its a matter of making sure it is done correctly. To show up in a demonstration and to spread the virus and to block a hospital is not in any continuum of rational, acceptable or reasonable no matter what you political ideology is. This is a video of a RESPONSIBLE demonstration that does not endanger other people nor blocks hospitals or ambulances in the name of some amorphous "right."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=jL6xH_41Odc&feature=emb_logo

I will say again: families would have ABSOLUTELY been protected financially with a different approach which has nothing to do with the size of government. Right now it is coming out that the PPP went to a lot of large and some publicly traded companies rather than the intended recipient. That exact same money could have been sent directly to working class families to protect their homes, livelihood and ability to take care of their children. So I am not sure how that is an idealogical discussion. Unless your point is the government should have done nothing to help families while they need to shelter in place for their well being.

But I will say this. Your premise has no basis in what we know. Socialism does not lead to communism, as they are very different beasts. To begin with one is a political theory, the other is an economic one. I don't think most Americans realize this, not have a firm grasp of what either one really is saying. And I will point out that every word of the US constitution has been incredibly carefully chosen and weighted, even the sequence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

I would say the order says it all. As others have pointed out without "Life" the rest can no be had.

[marvin4242]

Marvin, I agree with some of what the article says, but I'm not too sure sending the kids back to school right now is the best idea.  That means they also expect teachers, school counselors, bus drivers, admin office workers, kitchen workers and custodial workers to also leave their homes and go back to work.  That's a lot of people
I don't think the kids are the issue here.

I don't believe it's going to hurt anything if the kids stay out until September.  They are doing homework at home with their parents (or teachers via the Internet) for what...maybe another month?

Thunder I think that is an analysis of impact, and as another friend of mine pointed out as much as the kids are not at risk they have to go back home to people who may be. So you have a very valid point there. I think that analysis can provide the data to decide which elements will or won't work for the balance of life vs economy and I agree that the concerns of parents and well being of staff has to be considered.