[Curiosity]

Thanks, SS… for much of our relationship, I was the strong one. I didn’t really even notice my own slide into codependency. But lesson learned, for sure… I like myself a lot more when I’m strong and self-assured, and now that I’m aware of how that can be lost if not nurtured, I will do my best not to make that mistake again.

Roo, you have given me a lot to think about - both with this reply and in your own thread. I have thought about marriage counseling periodically in the 16 months since she told me she wanted our marriage again. In that conversation, we agreed that it was something we may need, but we didn’t commit to starting right away. I think that maybe everything was a little raw, a little tentative. I think it was a big step for her to come clean - she confessed to having tried online dating, she confessed that it didn’t work, she said she wanted me to be her person. And at the time, I accepted that - recognizing (and saying to her) that we needed to take steps to ensure we didn’t just step back into the same relationship we were in at BD.

And truthfully, it hasn’t been like it was at BD. Most of the time, we are more open with each other - we’ll be honest about our insecurities and our feelings, we’ll genuinely engage with each other. When she is in a good place emotionally, we’re affectionate in ways that had faded before BD. The issue is that pre-BD, when she had periods of depression or anxiety, I knew that it wasn’t about her withdrawing from our marriage, but that it was a personal issue. I never doubted her commitment to us, to me. Now, anytime she seems disengaged, a part of me wonders if she’s on her way out… and although of course I want our marriage, I’m not afraid of her checking out.

She is going to independent counseling weekly. She absolutely believes in therapy… she works in that field herself, in fact. And I know there’s a lot she has to work through in terms of her childhood, her anxiety and depression, some of the isolation that remains a part of our lives, her stress related to work. But a part of me wonders whether she’s doing a form of one-sided marriage counseling sometimes… is she telling the therapist things she doesn’t tell me? And it doesn’t help that sometimes it feels like her boundaries around the therapy relationship are a little blurry. It feels like she sees this therapist as a friend in a lot of ways, sometimes, and the therapist seems to do a lot of validating her. It just doesn’t feel all that objective, as an observer.

We have had some conversations about our wants and needs, but not many. I know that we need to have more, but I also know that deep discussions become counterproductive when she is anxious. I have expressed some of the hurt and betrayal that I felt, though I’m not sure she will ever understand the depths of my grief and pain post BD. But I have also healed significantly, and although I do wish she could understand what it was like for me, I don’t need her to take on shame or guilt about it.

Anyway, that was a long and rambling piece of background. But the answer is, I am certainly open to marriage counseling. But she is still in a fragile place around her own upbringing and anxiety and depression. And I worry that, even if she’s out of the actual crisis, she’s not yet emotionally equipped to have the in-depth discussions that we need to have. Reconnection is a rocky, challenging, and *long* process. The timeline was 16 1/2 months from BD to the day she said she wanted our marriage back. And it has now been another 16 ½ months since the day she said she wanted our marriage back. There have been a lot of good days and weeks and months… but there are definitely remnants of the crisis and the trauma, and we still have a lot of work to do to ensure that our marriage is honest and committed and resilient.

Thank you so much for your input on this. It’s incredibly reassuring to know that there are people here who truly understand.

[9393roo]

We were very much stuck in a similar spot about 6 months ago.  After BD #2 My H started to want our marriage back, I told him he needed to go to therapy on his own and fix himself.  Before the BD we had just started MC again, because I was on my way out and he was trying to keep me put.  Our marriage counselor was amazing and my H liked him so much he took him as his own therapist and we stopped MC.   This therapist was beginning to know our story and I was very thankful he did because I think my H would have told him a different version.  The therapist also was incredibly angry with him because he lied in counseling and told him he would only take him if was 100% truthful.  I think it shook him up a little.  My H saw him for a year on his own.  I tried to work on myself at this point as well.  we didn't really have a marriage.  We for sure could not have any relationship talks. I also started to feel that his therapist was validating him too much as well.  We were not communicating well at all.  This is when the therapist asked if I would come back to MC with him again.  He has been there to help my H see things from my angle and it has been amazing.  He has also been able to get me to see what I was contributing to the situation.  We have been very lucky to have him.  We are now done to once a month because we are able to express ourselves so much better. 

I am coming up on almost 2 years since my H started to make his way out of the tunnel.   For me reconnection has been an incredibly long process, filled with a whole new set of problems.  I do finally feel that we are on a good path forward.  I hope you can find that path as well as you trudge through the MLC aftermath. 

Sending you lots of peace!
Roo

 

[Curiosity]

Roo, so much of what you are saying resonates deeply with me. I have thought, and continue to think, that W’s therapist validates her too much, and also enables her tendency toward constant seeking of validation. There’s very little incentive for W to look internally to define her self-worth. Also, this therapist is a licensed marriage and family therapist… I know that doesn’t mean that they only do marriage counseling, but it was something that caught my eye when she started with this therapist before BD. I saw the records release so that W’s psychiatrist could communicate with the therapist, and asked W if she was going to therapy to discuss our marriage, given that this therapist has that qualification. She said that no, that was just a certificate this therapist had gotten but her therapy wasn’t about our marriage. Clearly, in hindsight this shows I was seeing red flags before BD.

Anyway… the fact that she started seeing this therapist, and then not too long after that she BD’ed me… then the whole cake-eating polyamory thing… given those things, I have had the thought that W may well have misrepresented me or our marriage to the therapist. At first I was worried about what this therapist thought of me, and then I was worried that she was going to validate W’s decision to date other people, based on a false representation of me and our marriage. And then, it became clear to me that if W was looking for an escape and willing to lie to her therapist rather than be honest with me, the relationship wouldn’t have been worth saving. And that’s still true - the marriage will only work if we are both honest with each other about what we want this marriage to be.

I am really happy for you and for your h, that together and individually you have been able to work through so much of the aftermath of MLC. I’m still optimistic that we can do the same, but I think on some level I expected the path to be a little smoother. I am so grateful for your thoughts, and your reminders that it’s not a smooth path but it can still lead to healing and growth.

[Curiosity]

I’ve done a bit of catch up on other threads, but was surprised to realize it had been so long since I had posted on my own thread. Anyway… not much to really report, here. We are just living our life, with all its moments of happiness and all its imperfections. It’s been a long rainy season and, as much as I know we need rain, I am eager for the return of sustained sun and warmth.

W has been dealing with some depression over the past several months, and I think it’s exacerbated by the rainy and gloomy weather (and probably also exacerbated by the fact that her mother, who also has depression, stays with us in the winter). W has increased her therapy from weekly to twice weekly, hoping to break through some of her struggles to do with trauma and grief. She does withdraw sometimes, but she also reaches out to me sometimes to talk about what she’s thinking and feeling. And, as an important distinction from the pre-BD days, she’s clearly not withdrawing from me to seek out support and validation from other people. She’s doing therapy, and when she is able to be vulnerable and share, she comes to me. She may also share with friends, but she sees me as “her person.”

As for me… I don’t have depression but I do notice some level of winter “blues.” I’m not sad, but I tend to want to be home and in comfy clothes, reading or watching television or playing games. Catching up with friends or family by phone is nice, but I don’t have much desire to be out in the world. Part of that may be introversion, part may be seasonal. I’m a homebody year-round, to be honest, but even more so in the winter. I have maintained my focus on pursuing my own interests, and I feel like I have done a good job not falling back into the codependent mindset from pre-BD. W and I may be spending a lot of time together by virtue of the fact that we both spend a lot of time in our home. But we each have our own identities and interests, and we have conversations with each other about those individual interests.

I do feel like I have maintained some level of detachment through this reconnection/reconciliation process. Sometimes I wonder if I’m too detached, but mostly I think I’m in a reasonably healthy place now and I was too attached before. Sometimes when W is particularly distant or irritable, I will have a thought that maybe she’s checking out of the relationship again. The idea makes me sad but also doesn’t terrify me or make me doubt my own self-worth. It’s also not something I dwell on for long, and when it does happen, it’s usually not too long before W acknowledges that she’s been distant or irritable and apologizes and/or explains why. I admit that I’m hesitant to share my doubts with her because of her depression and anxiety; I don’t want to exacerbate any guilt or shame that she might have when she is working so hard on improving her mental health. I do discuss those things with her because I don’t want to infantilize her or be dishonest with her; I just don’t dwell on things.

So, that’s where we are… just over 3 years since BD, 2 years since W moved back in, and a year and a half since she recommitted to our marriage. Life’s not perfect, and neither of us is the same person as before. Our marriage isn’t the same marriage it was before. We could both be better about talking about difficult things, but we are both working on that. Importantly, though, I think we both have a more honest view of what marriage (and our own marriage specifically) means to us.

[KayDee]

Just a short note to thank you for your generosity in sharing the 'warts and all' journey of reconnection and reconciliation. I can imagine that it takes most of the emotional bandwidth to journey through this process, so the fact that you updated to help others is doubly admirable. Your posts have helped me (and I am sure many others) along the way. We are all different, but we share some key experiences. Finding this forum helped me to be more reflective and also know that I am not INSANE  Sometimes it has even made me laugh. I hope you and your W continue to grow together and that, as painful as it is, the experience makes you stronger.

[Curiosity]

Thanks for that, KayDee! It has been a learning experience, that’s for sure. I was lucky enough to have a solid foundation in life - yes, my parents divorced when I was young. But both parents were present in my life, and both of them made a point of ensuring that my siblings and I knew that their divorce wasn’t about us and they both loved us and would always be there for us. Plus, they made sure that we knew our own self-worth and potential. I have never doubted that my parents love me and are proud of me, and that is sadly not always the case.

Life goes on… W and I are going to a friend’s wedding in a few weeks, and will travel to visit my family after my sister has her baby this summer. We seem to be in a really good, solid place in our marriage. She has her anxiety and depression, and admittedly I can get caught up in inertia so that I don’t feel at as much attention to diet, exercise, and creative pursuits as I would like. But I’m far better now about turning that around, and I have no intention of ever getting back to that place where I didn’t have a sense of my own wants and needs outside of my identity as a spouse.

Do we call this reconciliation, or is it still reconnection? Honestly, I don’t know… I truly believe that we are a team once again, and that we are both committed to each other and to the life we share. I’m not sure it matters whether my icon is white or pink or purple - it’s more about the lessons learned along the way. Not sure why I am feeling philosophical other than that it’s past bedtime here…

[Reinventing]

Finding this forum helped me to be more reflective and also know that I am not INSANE 

Me too, Kaydee!

Thanks for continuing to post, Curiosity. It helps to see how people navigate reconnection and reconciliation.

[MadLuv]

Curiosity- thank you for continuing to update. I do think although you dont need your icon changed to know where you are it is important to guide those reading to the stories of hope. We write for ourselves, but we also write to help others understand the situation they are in. To find a connection in similarities to help their healing as much as ours. Im glad to see your color changed so all the newbies looking for hope can find you

[Curiosity]

Thanks for the comments - I’m glad to know it helps people to read these updates, even though sometimes it’s like watching paint dry! I guess that after the roller coaster of MLC, we all cherish that stability in a way.

Not much new to report here, other than that my sister had her baby this week! I live quite some distance away from her, so I don’t know exactly when I will meet my new niece (though definitely this summer), but my sister was surrounded by loving family and, as I understand it, was a complete superstar. Not that that is at all surprising - my sister is amazing. I can’t imagine it is easy to have a newborn after age 40, but she has always wanted children so I couldn’t be happier for her.

MIL went back to her home last month; she will plan to be back here in the winter again, but for the next several months, it’s just me and W and the pets! We’re doing well, the marriage is solid, and I am feeling peace and contentment in my life. I haven’t quite gotten on the diet wagon the way I want to, but have made some improvements. I have gotten back to meditation… not daily, but once in a while. I even managed to exercise a time or two, even though work has been busy! My life is going well, and I can’t complain.

W is struggling a bit with anxiety, depression, and burnout from her work. It’s a good job… a great job, honestly, and she does know that. But I think that we all need to truly take breaks from our routines sometimes, even if we love our routines. And when a job is emotionally and intellectually demanding, burnout is a particular challenge. Still, this is nothing like the pre-BD days. She is sometimes irritable, sometimes distant, but it never lasts long and she regularly shows and expresses appreciation for me and our relationship.

So, the two year anniversary of her “I don’t want to be separated anymore” declaration will be at the beginning of August. When I think about it all, I continue to be resolute about the fact that I am never going to let this marriage or any relationship define me so much that I would feel as lost and blindsided as I did after BD. At the same time, it doesn’t define me or our relationship… it’s just a difficult but relatively brief part of our story. I appreciate the comments from people reading this thread, especially when there isn’t a lot of news. Though I update rarely, I read your posts much more often, and I wish you all peace and strength. I will always be grateful to this community for helping me find the strength to make it through one of the hardest times in my life.

[Evermore]

What a lovely update Curiosity. I am so happy for you!