[UrsaMajor]

At what point do they admit their actions have something to do with the despair they find themselves in?   At what point do they realize they are what is holding them back from their own happiness, not everyone else?  How do they make that leap and come back out of it when they feel like drastic measures could be the solution?

THESE are the quintessential questions.....

"When" means looking at a timeline (which we all know is about as useful as watching paint dry).  My personal opinion on the answer is that some never will manage to take responsibility for their own actions, their own well-being, their own happiness. Others might and that is usually after they have gone <SPLAT!> at what is called here "rock bottom." This is much like an addict (drugs or alcohol) finally (usually after loosing everything, having problems with the law, etc.) recognizing that only they themselves have the means and responsibility to move on out of the self-defeating trap that they have set for themselves. For the Mid-Lifer, it usually is when they themselves are responsible for their own mental and emotional well-being and no one else. That is why I said that some never find their way out of this. MLCxW's father was one of the latter. How much of that has rubbed off remains to be seen.

MLCxW finally stated in our last family therapy session (these are really about our D15) that she has started seeing a therapist. While I hope that means progress, I also recognize that her last therapist (before ABD) "fired" her as a client because MLCxW refused to be honest or to take responsibility for her actions or her own emotional well being (I only know this as this was our couples therapist when we were together and I saw her twice after ABD -  she said that she recommended MLCxW to find a different therapist as the relationship between the two of them was neither productive nor useful so the interpretation is mine) so it remains to be seen if MLCxW will actually progress or not.

Bottom line though is that, until the Mid-Lifer accepts that they themselves are the ONLY ones that can really make themselves "happy" in the long term, they are the only ones that can keep their emotional bucket full, nothing will change pemanently......

[Treasur]

Just in case it makes you feel less alone/better…

BD is over a decade ago. I was diagnosed with PTSD in 3018 and worked hard to dig myself out of it with the help of EMDR. I am neither the pre-BD version of myself but also far from the PTSD version of myself today.
And yet…..
I was helping a friend by driving her and her sister around to a series of medical appointments today. Just putting the addresses into the car and following along. But what I had not realised is that the last appointment was going to take us to within a couple of miles of where my old marital home was. Until I recognised a particular roundabout and suddenly got a flashback and felt that sick feeling in my stomach which is always an early flag for a panic attack for me.
And it has been years since I’ve had one now and at least 7 or 8 years since I drove round that particular spot.
Pretty horrible feeling tbh. Had to do my old box breathing and counting backwards techniques to be able to continue driving safely. Back home now and I am exhausted, the particular type of deep exhaustion I remember from my PTSD days.
I will eat something, go to bed and remind myself that tomorrow is a new day.

Just wanted to share so you can be reminded and reassured that these glitches happen, that sometimes they catch us by surprise, that trauma is a real thing with a life of its own and that it’s no failure on your part. Or mine!

[MomOfSteel]

Ursa and Treasur, you are both right of course.  It’s funny how as the LBS we cycle as well trying to make sense of things even after all this time.  This last bit has really thrown me back into my own C-PTSD response which I wasn’t expecting and well, I hate my body being in this state even though I can intellectually explain it, my body just doesn’t care.  It feels a bit like I have been kidding myself that I am as healed as I thought.  I get thrown every now and then but this has been worse and my response isn’t going away after a few days.  So back to some EMDR this next therapy session to try and help.  No one ever tells you how tiring all the healing really is.  There is also probably no truly making sense of the MLCers way he’s going because it isn’t how my brain works.  Periodically I think he’s coming through it but nope.  Being stubborn I don’t want to accept that this may just be hi new normal and I have to deal with the chaos until the youngest is grown and I can completely cut contact. 

[Treasur]

I wouldn’t describe it as being stubborn…I’d more likely call it part of the bargaining and denial that is part of the grieving process fwiw. We hope, in various ways, until we reach a point where we can’t keep doing that. It’s not pleasant but it’s normal as an LBS response, particularly when kids are involved I suspect. Perhaps it’s just harder to lay down the attachment of seeing someone as a co-parent than seeing them as a partner, idk.

What I would encourage you to do to weather this phase of the storm is to focus on using phrases like ‘right now’. To deal with the situation/person you see in front of you right now in the way that works best for you right now.

That inherently involves letting go of future speculation - and tbh past knowledge pre BD. Reading your earlier post, it sounds as if you are not quite there yet? That you are ‘explaining’ your sense of what your kids need bc some part of you is ‘expecting’ him to be influenced by that. That you are still carrying some sense of responsibility about his mental well-being or future actions bc of that? That you still feel the instinctive need to defend yourself or place weight on his opinions? That’s the stuff you try to focus on letting go of bc that’s the stuff that probably makes you feel afraid or unsafe. Does that make sense?

“While I tried to explain where our kids were at and ways relationships could be repaired it was not received.”   
So, you stop having that kind of conversation right now….

“I’m tired of being accused of keeping my kids away when I’m simply trying to protect them and advocate for what they want.”
So you end any interaction when/if that happens, right now his opinion of you is irrelevant….and you do not need to listen to it….

“I hate to see the MLCer so completely depressed and hopeless.”
So you stop looking and accept that you are not the solution to whatever his problem is, and that how/if he chooses to deal with it is an unknown future thing beyond your control right now….and that your assessment might even be wrong bc no one can inhabit someone else’s head, can we?

“At what point do they admit their actions have something to do with the despair they find themselves in?   At what point do they realize they are what is holding them back from their own happiness, not everyone else?  How do they make that leap and come back out of it when they feel like drastic measures could be the solution? “
So you file all of this under ‘unknown future beyond my comprehension right now’…. And perhaps focus on the bit you can control which is why this particular outcome matters to you so much and how you can make peace with the unknown quality of it?

Do you see how you can unpick these bits of ‘right now’ and plot a course for yourself regardless? You really DO have the right as an independent human being to say No, Not Now and Not My Job to any other adult human’s requirements of you….its often quite uncomfortable to start particularly if that’s a new kind of behaviour pattern for you but you do have the right to refuse to play even when invited! (You might find it helpful to read up a bit about Transactional Analysis if you are not familiar with it - really helpful in framing how to change interaction patterns. It’s a strange thing to observe but common that many ex-spouses seem to think that they can play the same kind of schtick that they always did bc it worked pretty well-BD and they expect it to carry on working even when they have blown up everything else! And, like most LBS here, I found it did for a while…tbh almost to the point of ridiculousness. Until I saw the patterns and refused to play! Which my xh was rather pompously shocked by as I recall! Might not apply in your situation of course but maybe worth a read -Eric Berne, Games People Play - an oldie but a goodie!)


It’s a hard human thing to accept the limitations of our control and influence when we already feel unsafe enough that our body is vibrating like a tuning fork imho. Really hard - it’s such a normal function of that lizard bit of our brain to think that more potential control = more safety. But, again jmo, what we tend to find is that it doesn’t, it just keeps us in someone else’s rollercoaster sandbox. The practical effect of ‘right now’ can help us unhook from that and see more clearly what belongs to us and what does not.

I hope your EMDR session goes well and that you are soon feeling on more solid ground, my friend

[xyzcf]

In my own experience, as much as I did not want to be triggered, inevitably something would cause my heart to constrict in pain. No matter what he did, no matter have many years passed, "memories" are still in our heads and impossible to totally forget...and the trauma that we encountered has primed us to react in a certain way, even when we know intellectually that there isn't any threat here.

My therapist told me that my healing was like a slinky toy, and that there would be times that I would go backwards, but that I would never ever go back as far as the beginning, and that I would be able to center myself again and start forward again.

I have found that to be true.

And now that my beloved has died, you would think that I would not be impacted by things that I have found out about his past. When I left the hospital driving home after he had died, a very strong thought came into my mind..."he cannot hurt me anymore". But I have since discovered that I can still be hurt...maybe one day there will not be triggers, but there still are many...even though we resolved many things, even though he stated he wanted to be married to me again....

Because really, there was not enough time to develop trust or to believe him...and so, I will never know for sure.

And all I can say MomOfSteel, the trauma changed us...and we have all done so much work to find our peace again...but the effect of what happened to us is embedded in us on a cellular level, not really in our control.

Recently, in therapy once again, the physiological symptoms I have been experiencing which remind me very much of after BD, were explained to me as part of my limbic system..and how the brain is still not able to make sense of what happened in the last 6 months..and that makes sense to me.Just like my brain could never make sense over his MLC/crisis or whatever changed him so completely.

Anything that will help to decreased the association between the memory and the affect on us is worth pursuing. I hope EMDR is helpful as it has been in the past. Just writing here MomofSteel is helpful to so many many other readers who wonder why they can still be triggered many years later.

[MomOfSteel]

Xyzfc, thank you for sharing.  I’m sorry you are still dealing with this too.  After all the loss, sometimes it feels like we should be able to be done. The unfairness of being forever changed by something not of our choosing is a bit of a horse pill to swallow. 

Treasur, I think you are hitting the nail on the head. It can be hard even after several years to get it through my thick skull sometimes that he is no longer a partner.  When we work together for the kids or are getting along well, which does actually happen sometimes lol, it feels so familiar it is hard to keep those same walls and delineations up.  I find myself questioning my responses and if it’s long standing habit/patterns and that is why it feels comfortable and “safe” or if I am truly making the best decision as there was a time there I really had internalized not trusting my own judgement.  What my body feels is safe and makes me feel regulated isn’t always intellectually true, especially when in comes to the wasband. 

You are absolutely right that I feel the need to defend myself and do place weight on his reactions although less than I used to.  He has a way of making me feel defensive.  I also do feel a need to care take to some extent which I probably need to explore some more.  It is hard to balance caretaking to keep my kids protected and caretaking out of habit or some other misguided attempt at controlling the situation.  I do hope in explaining what the kids need he will be influenced and give them that.  Despite all his bluster and pushback he then usually tries to do what I suggest even if he tries to do it without me knowing.    He fails to realize my kids actually talk to me about pretty much everything. 

Trying to not worry about unknowns with him is hard, but you are right in that I shouldn’t.  He has confided he is suicidal on and off but I can’t really control what he decides nor is it my fault if that is the choice he makes.  Realistically the reality of his own bad decisions is probably hitting him and well that can’t be pleasant to deal with, luckily I’m not the one that has to.  What a messed up existence. 

I will have to look into transactional analysis, I’m not really familiar with the term.  I suspect I have been doing some of it with therapy.  You are spot on that the ex uses familiar behavior patterns that he expects to work.  Last week within a feed days span he went from trying to make himself the victim so I would feel sorry for him to belligerent and accusing and blame shifting to trying to be reasonable and talk like and adult.  It’s weird to look at the tone and tactic shifts that were happening when he realized one tactic didn’t work.  As I have gotten better (though still have work to do) in not falling prey to as much of the manipulation it’s almost like it gets more overt as he tries to regain the control that he’s lost over me.