[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Yes you don't know whether and when the damned fog will lift, that is why for now and the future, best thing you can do is detach, focus on you, your children and what is dear to you, and enjoy all the good that life is bringing to you.

Great words to follow and I do feel your pain. I have been on this site for over thirteen years, and it is littered with stories of shattered marriages and broken families. I went back and read your opening and something really stuck out to me.

But BD was 4/20/23 when she said to me there is no us if I continue drinking ( which yea I was drinking and isolating in depression especially once we got here and I had no family or friends ) however I have been sober since that day and she has gotten mean and pushed me away and said things about how she’s always taken care of others like her siblings and our children ( which the first was born when we were 18 )

My ex told me that I needed to get counseling and I did. Just like your w, she got meaner. So maybe the truth is that your w was using your drinking as a vehicle for her escape and your sobriety denied her excuse. By the way, congratulations on your recovery. Playing it in my head now, I could see my ex telling someone, "I told him too go see a counselor, but he refused so I had no choice." Maybe your wife didn't want you sober, just just wanted to make a demand that she thought you would refuse and that would give her a legitimate excuse to leave.

she needs to put herself first and not worry about others feelings and needs to prove to herself she can build a life for her and so on.

How many times have we heard this statement. Mine was "I have always put others before me and now I want to be first." Whether it is spiritual or a lack of a chemical that feeds the brain, something in our system pushes an extreme impulse that they are missing out on something, that something better is just around the corner, and you and I are intentionally keeping them from achieving Nirvana. I may not know the source of your w's issues, but I do know that nothing that you or I can do can to fix them.

I fear she’s ruining her life and I don’t know if I can be there when she comes around.

Her choice and consequences for her choices. The thing to fear is that she drags you and the kids down with her and that is why you need to let her go. I can see you are a fighter and will go the extra mile for her. But instead of focusing energy, time and thought on her, do it all for you and your family. I think you are too much there for her. Trust me, I was there too. If she said good morning on a Tuesday, I was already thinking maybe that good morning was the start of things for the better. I was always watching and listening and feverishly waiting for her to reclaim her old self.

Nicing her way does nothing good.

Maybe all of us guys should get this tattooed on our body somewhere. Being nice often brings more monster, because it brings with it a large amount of contempt. I am not saying that you treat her like dirt, but don't go out of your way to make things better for her either. She is playing games with you where she makes the rules in her favor. You can choose to play her game and lose or just don't play with her at all.

I can’t see her. It gets angrier and uglier every single day. I believe she’s in there too but I can’t see her at all.

Then stop looking at her. This is not the person you want to be around anyway. She disrespects you and your life. When she decides to act like a decent person towards you and your children then you can look at her. She can be the angriest person on the planet, but that is her choice not yours.

I really hope you continue to work on yourself and heal. Your self care and focus on your children is the best thing you can do for you, your kids, and even her. I think you are in a good place, but her actions, her emotions, and her words still sting and reopen wounds. That is normal and I remember the pain just as well. The more you can rebuild yourself and regain your bearings and power, the less her actions will have on you.

Be good to yourself and have a great weekend,

(((Ready)))

[xyzcf]

Quote from: Baxter1 on November 09, 2023, 04:34:36 AM
ICF
She’s still in there! Under the anger and monstering she is still there. I keep reminding myself of that.
It’s gives me some peace to know that Original W would never act in this way, it’s very difficult to see that she’s in pain and acting out in so many ways.

"She's still in there"...every situation is different. In several return stories, members have stated that post crisis, their spouse becomes him/herself again and sometimes they say they are even better versions of themselves. During their crisis, they are unrecognizable at times..but yes, I believe that they are still in there.

The difficulty for me was that he left and did not love me anymore, did not want me to share in his life anymore. I continued and continue to love him. Perhaps it is only the man I knew for 35 years that I love but my goodness, whatever happened to him, to us, was traumatic and very real and very damaging. But that doesn't change that I love him...differently now.....but that never went away for me.

Stayed was a long time Hero's Spouse member and her marriage was reconciled years ago. Her husband wrote a letter that many of us found helpful in understanding what was happening with our spouse. I had the opportunity to meet him twice, and his willingness to answer our questions about his crisis was really important in my understanding of what happened to my husband. Again, each situation is different, the end result is different, the time frame is different...but there are also many many similarities.

His letter can be found at https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1180.msg66087#msg66087

Their crisis is a total break from who they were...but yes, IMHO, they are still in there. The LBSer gets to decide if and when they wish to interact with their spouse, that is totally our decision. It cannot be based upon the wishful thinking that somehow, we can change what will happen. We have absolutely no control over the future or their crisis.

But they are in a crisis...that is the bottom line for me...and it has caused a tremendous psychological break that impacts everyone who loves them. I do understand the "they are still in there" that is often expressed on Hero's Spouse...the reality is, they may never break out of, as french husband stated "the prisoner inside the body".

[Baxter1]

XY-

Thank you for sharing this letter!

[Ichoosefaith]

I read all of the wisdom on here and I think it helps. It’s just incredible impossible to handle.

I was sent a screenshot from a friend of W dating profile updated to say she’s looking for a long term relationship. Like wtf. She hasn’t even moved out of our house!!!  Part of me thinks it’s just to mess with me because she knows I’m still snooping. But part of me wonders if she is really looking for something serious.

Partly because all of her plans to “prove to herself she can do this without relying on anyone” have failed. She didn’t get the alimony and child support she went for so now she’s looking for “long term relationship” to have someone to pay for things. So she doesn’t have to continue to work the 50 hour weeks she’s been working trying to fight me for the house.

I don’t know and it’s all absolutely terrible.

After being together 14 years and best friends over 20, I wish I could just talk to her and ask why? And wtf are you doing?

But again I understand I cannot and that she probably doesn’t have the answers and it would all just be met with hostility at this point.

Is it a good thing if she dates ? Maybe then she’ll see the flaws in someone else and whatnot idk.

At this point I am just so exhausted in my heart. Like loving her is killing me

[xyzcf]

At this point I am just so exhausted in my heart. Like loving her is killing me

It is surreal. We know the person who we shared our lives with for 20 years...we do not know who this person is now.

The things they are doing, in my wildest dreams I could never have imagined that he could do..that his morals and values could change so very much.

I always thought, I didn't stop loving because he did...doesn't work that way.

I found that not having much knowledge of his life helped me...so looking at her dating profile or facebook page or having freinds tell you about what she is up to can be very painful...

These are hard hard times....working through the feelings and the grief takes time.

The support you get here from others who have gone through what you are expereincing will help you. Seeing a therapist will help you. Acceptance will help you.

The knowledge that this is not about you and nbot about your marriage will help you.

But it takes time to really incorporate these things into our psyche.

[KayDee]

I read all of the wisdom on here and I think it helps. It’s just incredible impossible to handle.

I was sent a screenshot from a friend of W dating profile updated to say she’s looking for a long term relationship. Like wtf. She hasn’t even moved out of our house!!!  Part of me thinks it’s just to mess with me because she knows I’m still snooping. But part of me wonders if she is really looking for something serious.

Please consider going black out on all this. It is extremely hurtful to see these things and IMO her actions are ridiculous. Sorry, I know it hurts beyond belief, but just think about how crazy this is. It's like she is in some weird bubble, advertising a vacancy for a new long term partner, while she is still living with you, her, up until recently, loving partner of many years, her best-friend of two decades. Thinking it is A OK to just segue into something new and committed, without mourning a long-term partnership?  I get it, I have my own brand of ridiculous over here. I keep thinking (like many of us here) Who does that? Someone in crisis and emotional chaos. Chances are this will keep getting more bonkers and there will be cycling too and you will get even more exhausted.

Partly because all of her plans to “prove to herself she can do this without relying on anyone” have failed. She didn’t get the alimony and child support she went for so now she’s looking for “long term relationship” to have someone to pay for things. So she doesn’t have to continue to work the 50 hour weeks she’s been working trying to fight me for the house.

Well, if this is true, it is classic looking to others to solve one's issues. It could also be that she is desperately looking for A N Other to validate her. Or, it could be something else. It's likely she may not know.

Is it a good thing if she dates ? Maybe then she’ll see the flaws in someone else and whatnot idk.

From my experience there a not many good things in this crisis, because there seems to be a lot of bad decisions made by the MLCer.  I guess you could ask this question about a whole bunch of unwise, impulsive, destructive, selfish and immature things she may, or may not, do. It's not really in your control.

Yes, it is really, really terrible. I have no idea how people living with the crisis person keep sane. Your health must come first. It really seems like you need to have some space and time away from this. Maybe others with live-ins can assist.

[mcm64d]

I am sorry you, and all of us, are going through this. I am no expert for sure but I can listen. I can reply. And I am here for you and anyone here. There is no reason for this. It hurts it sucks and it does not matter whether or not it’s deserved. It is what it is. I’ve had no contact for 5 days now and I’m only 3 months into this, but not hearing or seeing the nasty or emotionless things she says or types has been wonderful. Thankfully I am only on LinkedIn so social media isn’t and issue. Maybe that is the way to go? Regardless, love yourself first and foremost.

[UrsaMajor]

I was sent a screenshot from a friend of W dating profile updated to say she’s looking for a long term relationship. Like wtf. She hasn’t even moved out of our house!!!  Part of me thinks it’s just to mess with me because she knows I’m still snooping. But part of me wonders if she is really looking for something serious.

"Doctor, it REALLY hurts when I stab myself in the nose with this Barbecue fork!"
"Well, what if you were to STOP STABBING YOURSELF IN THE NOSE WITH THE BARBECUE FORK?!?!?"

Partly because all of her plans to “prove to herself she can do this without relying on anyone” have failed. She didn’t get the alimony and child support she went for so now she’s looking for “long term relationship” to have someone to pay for things. So she doesn’t have to continue to work the 50 hour weeks she’s been working trying to fight me for the house.

We can speculate as to why she is going this until the cows come home and probably still not hit on the correct answer. Yes, it might be that she is looking for someone to foot her bills... it might be that her short-term escapades have been singularly unsatisfactory and she has attracted a group of "wham! Bam! Thank you ma'am" types into her life.... it might be because the sky is blue and the moon is made out of green cheese.... Bottom line is that it DOES NOT MATTER why she is advertising this. What matters is that you are giving it a lot of space in your head rent-free and to your own detriment. You have been sent a screen shot for whatever reason that contains information that is painful. What do YOU intend to do to alleviate that pain? A new boundary (towards the "friend") might be in order like "I really do not need to know what MLCstbxW is advertising so please stop sharing this kind of thing with me."

I don’t know and it’s all absolutely terrible.

Is it a good thing if she dates ? Maybe then she’ll see the flaws in someone else and whatnot idk.

Is it a good idea if she sticks her hand in a garbage disposal? Probably not.... Her dating (and yours as well at this point) is like putting a band-aid over a sucking chest wound. It might help psychologically for the short term but it does absolutely NOTHING to help one heal and, in fact, often disguises the fact that the underlying wound is becoming more infected and gangrenous. Until she CHOOSES to actively get tot eh root of the REAL issues that have caused the crisis and actually DEAL with those issues, it won't matter who she is with or what she wants.

That is the thing about MLC - anecdotal evidence here seems to say that there is normally an affair, either emotional or physical, on the part of the Mid-Lifer (not always but often and it could be an "affair" with a hobby or work or ANYTHING else external that gives the Mid-Lifer thir shot of endorphins) - but no matter how far they run away or how fast or who  they run with... there they are and NOTHING internally has changed. The external sources of "happy" soon become monotonous and loose their sparkle and the Mid-Lifer is back to Square 1..... Until they go <splat> on the rocks at their rock bottom and consciously CHOOSE to deal with the infection (going back to my war wound analogy), the infection will continue to fester and cause pain....

The other part about this is that it goes again to show that their crisis has NOTHING to do with us or our marriage. They could have been married to the perfect sait of a spouse and it would have still happened at some point - why? Because they are constantly trying to fill an internal void with external jollies. Until they learn to fill that internal void on their own with their own self-love, their own self-soothing, their own self-esteem, they will be like a broken washing machine... Wash, rinse, spin, repeat....

[FrenchHusband]

Yes, it is really, really terrible. I have no idea how people living with the crisis person keep sane. Your health must come first. It really seems like you need to have some space and time away from this. Maybe others with live-ins can assist.

I agree that living with at-home person under MLC is not easy and can bring damages. The best advices I got in this forum regarding this situation, additionally to the general ones (detach, GAL, focus on oneself, protect oneself & finances, etc.) are "set up boundaries" and "grumpy aunt policy". These 2 advices were not easy to implement for me, I am still improving to implement them in daily life, it becomes easier each day with failures-learn.

grumpy aunt policy
The best analogy that helps me to understand the MLC is the teenager crisis : many behaviours are similar IMO. But I can not handle W as I handle my daughters : I am not W's father, I am not the adult responsible who takes life-decisions for her. So, as W is an adult self responsible, I try to give her the same respect, kindness and politeness as I would for a grumpy old aunt that I would receive in our home. And I do that without expecting her to reciprocate (or at least I tell my brain to do so). For the share of household and parental chores, I say what I do and I do what I say. When W is doing things and I see them, I let her know that I have seen and I appreciate it. Around BD I was doing 90% of household chores, now it is back to 60-60 : I don't pay attention to the exact figures, sometimes me or W is doing extra chores.

Since 1 month I have decide to go in "No snooping". So I don't try anymore to check what W is doing or thinking : I don't ask, I don't blame, I give it less and less thought. I try to live as if she would never recover. Most of the time W does not tell me where she goes and I happen to learn where she was. In the first days after this decision I had a big temptation to snoop again, with time it makes me feel better, in the last days I saw that W is more peaceful, less wary towards me.

set up boundaries
that is a new skill for me so I had to understand what is the difference between boundaries, ultimatum, consequences. I see it is very useful to set up boundaries in order to minimize the damages done by at-home person under MLC.

Examples of boundaries I use with success in daily life :

• when I want to talk to W and I see her responding badly, I say in a light mode :"I see you are not well now, we can discuss this topic later when you feel better". Usually she calms down and we can discuss serenely
• when we are discussing together and she begins blaming or monstering, I say that I will be happy to hear what she has to say when she is better, then I leave the room
• when W is using her phone during meal, I reminder gently that we use no phone during meals together (not used it since many months)
• when W is very late in the evening, I send her a text asking to show sign of life, then when she comes back I say to W that next time I will call the police department : that happened only once, there was no "next time"

[Baxter1]

FH-

Grumpy Aunt, I love that. Right in the beginning I used to do a little snooping. Not any more, I feel that it is invasive and sometimes I don’t think I want to know what she is up to.