[Treasur]

I am very sorry. I know we said things get worse before they get better with MLC folks, but this wasn’t the kind of thing we were thinking about.  i hope she recovers soon.

Of course you understandably feel worried, and doubtless longing to show up or reach out, but right now I’d be driven by your daughter’s assessment of what is actually going on and whether she thinks your (separated) wife wants to hear from you or not. At least you know that your daughter is there and can get more information. Sadly your wife has chosen to move out and fired you from the job of being a supportive husband, claiming that you ‘smother’ her, right? So, your wife will have to deal with her own messes like a single adult and imho you would be wise to do nothing much at all. This is what getting what she wanted looks like and I susoect, like many LBS early on, it would be a no win situation where you would/will be blamed for whatever you do or don’t do. Sorry.

Hope I’m wrong, but as an MLC vet I’m afraid I’m a lot more cynical than I used to be. An eye infection bad enough that you can’t see well enough to work….but you can drive 3 hours to see your brother? (Or to see someone) Drink or drugs? Sadly not uncommon with MLC folks even if it was never a habit pre-BD. Well, the truth will emerge bc it usually does. And of course obviously not your fault as you weren’t in the car and knew nothing about it….although MLCers have an amazing ability to blame others in the face of reason. But I hope it is a small useful reminder that whatever is causing your wife’s unravelling and self-destruction, it obviously has nothing at all to do with you or your marriage as both were absent 

Out of interest, your car or hers?
Any financial impact on you from her medical costs?
And how is your daughter doing with seemingly being her mother’s emergency ‘rescuer’? Bc I guess that might not be an easy thing given some of your wife’s recent behaviour and your daughter is still quite young. Do your kids live with you?

[Nas]

I have to say that very much jumped out at me also - her eye was so infected she couldn't see, but she drove 3 hours to see her brother? Unlikely both (or either) of those things are entirely true. (Also, if she was in fact driving with a severe eye infection and medically documented vision problems, her - or your - insurance company is going to have a real problem with that, so Treasur's questions on who owns the car, who insures the car are very pertinent here also...)

If she's in hospital and reported fainting while driving, they're going to do their best to figure out what caused it (and believe me, the car insurance company will want that answer even more definitively than her medical insurance will. You'd be surprised by what people will claim happened to make an accident "not their fault.")

The more you detach, the less you will find yourself feeling anguished over wanting to help her with (i.e. fix) the consequences of her own poor choices, especially when those poor choices could also lead to consequences for you (see again my reference above to which one of you the insurance company will pay out to, or deny payment to, for example).

ETA: obviously this is all with the knowledge that she’s not seriously injured and didn’t injure anyone else. Your initial response is normal, someone you care for had an accident. My comments were more about “after the fact.”

[WHY]

Probably pain meds issue cause of the eye.  Fell asleep. 

Not your circus. 

[xyzcf]

Hi, I just went back to read your initial post. As you are very aware, something has happened that has changed your wife dramatically. We can call it MLC, crisis, depression, many labels but it is pretty clear that something is wrong with her.

You were married 25 years and have children together. Love is not something that can be turned off like a tap...you are understandably worried about her.

There is no reason to cut off contact with her, no reason to withdraw totally from her. Sometimes, it helps for us to distance ourselves for our own healing, sometimes we can heal quite well even if they remain in our lives.

There are times when situations come up that require time spent together. Graduations of our children, marriages...and sometimes illness. She could have been killed in her car wreck, thankfully she will have a work up in hospital to determine what caused her to faint of pass out while driving.

You want to be with her. There is absolutely no reason why you should not be.

I see MLC as a "dis-ease"....she was not like this for 25 years.....and now, because something is affecting her, a "crisis" ,you are supposed to turn your back on her totally?

I have been with my husband for two surgeries and taken care of him post op in the last 1 1/2 years. He did not ask me to be with him, I volunteered. It was the right thing to do for me.

It doesn't change anything regarding our relationship. There are things that I do because of who I am, how I treat people, even people who have treated me terribly, especially people who have something wrong with them.

I can still grow and build my own life and heal and I have done that. But there is still room for kindness for someone I spent so many years with.

What do you want to do? You can always ask her if you can come to the hospital and if she says no, of course you need to respect that.

It's good to consider different points of views about MLC. Several LBSers I know continue to care about their spouses and what happens to them. Several maintain contact and spend time together as a family.

You do what feels right for you Atari, because every situation on this site is different and there really should not be rigid and hard set rules that every LBS must follow in order to heal.

I find the lack of compassion for the MLCer seems rather punitive. It need not be so.

[Nas]

Several LBSers I know continue to care about their spouses and what happens to them.

I would say this is true for MOST LBS. Even I care to some extent about what happens to my former husband, even if just as a fellow human being.

The extent to which LBS can remain in contact with their spouse is in large part not under LBS control. XYZ, your ex-husband texts you of his own accord and voluntarily spends time with you. If that weren't the case, you may feel differently. For many LBS, their spouse has expressed an explicit aversion to contact with the LBS.

I recently had an conversation with an artist that was thought provoking to me on many levels. The conversation included a really interesting discussion about relationships, including thoughts about marriage, divorce, choice and boundaries. Even after success and acclaim, at his (in his words) advanced age, he expressed regrets in life that really relate to not truly seeing or hearing what is instead of seeing or hearing what he wanted to be. We are allowed to ask for what we want in a relationship with another, they are allowed to tell us, and if those two things are not the same, we can only accept that. When it comes to an MLC spouse, we can hope for a change, but we can't make it happen. We lay down boundaries that we expect our spouses to honor, and, like it or not, if we view our spouses as autonomous adults and separate beings, we have to honor theirs as well when it comes to things like contact. If they don't want the LBS involved in their life, the LBS really has no choice but to respect that (this doesn't apply of course to things like joint finances and assets, just to texting, phone calls, etc). No matter how much the LBS wants to be there, we can't force ourselves upon the MLCer who - at least at the moment - doesn't want us there. It's not punitive, it's actually respecting ourselves by respecting the wishes of another. JMHO.

[Treasur]

I must admit I agree with Nas on this. We may not understand it, we may not like it but if our spouse has said, or is behaving as if, they do not want contact with us, surely that’s an issue of basic resoect? After all, everyone has the right to have their own boundaries including MLCers.

I understand Xyzcf why you often feel the need to remind people that there is a spectrum of choice available about how much contact you have, and that it is not one size fits all, or fixed in stone. That NC is not a magic wand and that the contact you have can evolve. All true and worth reminding folks about.

It is also true imho that there is a healthy limit to how often one should touch a hot stove even from compassion or concern about someone else.

However when a new LBS is reeling and an MLCer has just galloped off full of blame and bile, I’m rather more concerned about the LBS not taking on more damage than they feel they can bear than the needs of the MLCer causing the damage. I agree that, understandable though the feeling can be at times, it is not the LBS’s job to punish them. But I also think it is not the LBS’s job to soak up or sweep away the natural consequences that come from the MLCer’s choices either. If only bc that’s how adults learn and grow, LBS and MLCer alike.

If I had abandoned my h and told him he was a PoS and stolen 25k from him, it is a predictable consequence that I might find myself without his support in hospital. As it was, I didn’t make those choices but still found myself alone when I was seriously ill lol.  Didn’t feel very fair tbh, but I just had to deal with that like a grown up does….so my compassion is disproportionately weighted towards LBS here. Who after all are the ones who come here often deeply distressed and often the ones also left carrying all the responsibilities that the MLCer left behind regardless of that distress.

I don’t need to hate or punish any MLCer, including my former h, in order to prioritise my compassion for the needs of an LBS particularly a relatively new one. And I am often conscious posting here, as I’m sure you are too, that the world looks very different years on than it did in the first year or so post BD.
Jmo.

[Atari25]

I am very sorry. I know we said things get worse before they get better with MLC folks, but this wasn’t the kind of thing we were thinking about.  i hope she recovers soon.

Of course you understandably feel worried, and doubtless longing to show up or reach out, but right now I’d be driven by your daughter’s assessment of what is actually going on and whether she thinks your (separated) wife wants to hear from you or not. At least you know that your daughter is there and can get more information. Sadly your wife has chosen to move out and fired you from the job of being a supportive husband, claiming that you ‘smother’ her, right? So, your wife will have to deal with her own messes like a single adult and imho you would be wise to do nothing much at all. This is what getting what she wanted looks like and I susoect, like many LBS early on, it would be a no win situation where you would/will be blamed for whatever you do or don’t do. Sorry.

Hope I’m wrong, but as an MLC vet I’m afraid I’m a lot more cynical than I used to be. An eye infection bad enough that you can’t see well enough to work….but you can drive 3 hours to see your brother? (Or to see someone) Drink or drugs? Sadly not uncommon with MLC folks even if it was never a habit pre-BD. Well, the truth will emerge bc it usually does. And of course obviously not your fault as you weren’t in the car and knew nothing about it….although MLCers have an amazing ability to blame others in the face of reason. But I hope it is a small useful reminder that whatever is causing your wife’s unravelling and self-destruction, it obviously has nothing at all to do with you or your marriage as both were absent 

Out of interest, your car or hers?
Any financial impact on you from her medical costs?
And how is your daughter doing with seemingly being her mother’s emergency ‘rescuer’? Bc I guess that might not be an easy thing given some of your wife’s recent behaviour and your daughter is still quite young. Do your kids live with you?

Sorry I was probably not clear. The eye infection was clear before she drove. She was ok to drive.

She was only in the hospital for a few hours to get checked over. Everything came back negative so she was released. It's her car but it's probably getting written off so it's going to be expensive to get a new car. I don't know what to do - she needs a car but she can't afford it on her own. It's going to be a BIG  headache.

Daughter lives with me, she is 23. It's her mom - she is going to help her, I will never fault her for that!

[Treasur]

Of course you wouldn’t fault your daughter for wanting to support her mum. I imagine both your kids are going through their own process of figuring out the changing relationships in this new situation.

Does it have to be your headache? Tbh I would let your wife figure out her own transport solution. If she needs your help, she can ask for it and you can decide then. Until then, I’d hold back and respect her wish to live as a single independent woman.

[Atari25]

Hi, I just went back to read your initial post. As you are very aware, something has happened that has changed your wife dramatically. We can call it MLC, crisis, depression, many labels but it is pretty clear that something is wrong with her.

You were married 25 years and have children together. Love is not something that can be turned off like a tap...you are understandably worried about her.

There is no reason to cut off contact with her, no reason to withdraw totally from her. Sometimes, it helps for us to distance ourselves for our own healing, sometimes we can heal quite well even if they remain in our lives.

There are times when situations come up that require time spent together. Graduations of our children, marriages...and sometimes illness. She could have been killed in her car wreck, thankfully she will have a work up in hospital to determine what caused her to faint of pass out while driving.

You want to be with her. There is absolutely no reason why you should not be.

I see MLC as a "dis-ease"....she was not like this for 25 years.....and now, because something is affecting her, a "crisis" ,you are supposed to turn your back on her totally?

I have been with my husband for two surgeries and taken care of him post op in the last 1 1/2 years. He did not ask me to be with him, I volunteered. It was the right thing to do for me.

It doesn't change anything regarding our relationship. There are things that I do because of who I am, how I treat people, even people who have treated me terribly, especially people who have something wrong with them.

I can still grow and build my own life and heal and I have done that. But there is still room for kindness for someone I spent so many years with.

What do you want to do? You can always ask her if you can come to the hospital and if she says no, of course you need to respect that.

It's good to consider different points of views about MLC. Several LBSers I know continue to care about their spouses and what happens to them. Several maintain contact and spend time together as a family.

You do what feels right for you Atari, because every situation on this site is different and there really should not be rigid and hard set rules that every LBS must follow in order to heal.

I find the lack of compassion for the MLCer seems rather punitive. It need not be so.

Thank you for your post. I truly appreciate it.

I worry about my wife. She seems scared and confused but I can't help her. I offered to come but she didn't want that and I respect that.

I still hope she comes home one day but we aren't there and I don't know if we ever will be but like you, Like you I never stopped caring. 28 years together I can't stop, I don't know how.

[Atari25]

Does it have to be your headache? Tbh I would let your wife figure out her own transport solution. If she needs your help, she can ask for it and you can decide then. Until then, I’d hold back and respect her wish to live as a single independent woman.

No matter how much the LBS wants to be there, we can't force ourselves upon the MLCer who - at least at the moment - doesn't want us there. It's not punitive, it's actually respecting ourselves by respecting the wishes of another. JMHO.

100%. She doesn't want me there. She does tell my daughter "I don't want to burden him". I suspect that is cover though.