[AlvinTheMaker]

Hi Atari25,

There is never a need to stop caring, never a need to stop loving. Even many of us who are no longer standing and have moved on life still care and love.

But what matters is how you do it.  The way you did express care and love during happy marriage is now a no-no. What you need now is a new way that works in this current situation.

This is more about challenging your own (old) inner beliefs than about her changing what she now is. Exploring your own thinking is important  part of your healing, growing and moving on. And be assured, when you reach the end of your journey, you will still love and care.

Alvin

[xyzcf]

I worry about my wife. She seems scared and confused but I can't help her. I offered to come but she didn't want that and I respect that.

Yes, you are right to respect her wishes. I stated in my previous post to you :

"What do you want to do? You can always ask her if you can come to the hospital and if she says no, of course you need to respect that.".

You are right, you can't help her.  I found this interesting what she said to your daughter

She doesn't want me there. She does tell my daughter "I don't want to burden him". I suspect that is cover though.

Glad to know that her tests came back "normal" and there isn't some serious issue going on that would cause her to faint.

I still hope she comes home one day but we aren't there and I don't know if we ever will be but like you, Like you I never stopped caring. 28 years together I can't stop, I don't know how.

Over the years there have been many posts made of how the MLCer feels like they have to leave or they will die. We don't get it, our marriages seemed very strong and loving and we were very shocked when they changed so drastically seemingly overnight. And as we often say "this is not about you and not about your marriage". We are the collateral damage and there is much we must do to rebuild our shattered selves.

Early on, when I read RCR's articles, I was struck by her article on agape and unconditional love.

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_unconditionals_agape.html

It seemed impossible to me at the time and the world kept telling me to cut ties with him, find someone new, he did not deserve me etc, etc. But on Heros Spouse, there was a different message that supported the concept of agape and unconditional love as well as forgiveness. The idea being that the LBSer would benefit from these things.

My faith also teaches me to "love"...simple but also so very hard to do.

The LBSer does get to choose. I choose to keep communication open and that has worked out well for me and my family.

I wish to remind posters that this is Atari's thread and that each one of us have something important to relate to him as well as to other posters. Our ideas are varied and it is best to let the individual LBSer come to their own conclusion regarding how they want to relate to their MLCer.

I am not going to justify my remarks and shall continue to express what I believe is true. If you wish to debate this issue further, then by all means start a new thread for a debate. No one poster's ideas are more important than any other's.

[Atari25]

It looks like the car will likely be written off and there will be a cash settlement from the insurance company coming. I don't know what she is going to do, she needs a car and she cannot afford big monthly payments. I feel like I should offer to help but my daughter says no.

Just another issue to deal with. I'm thankful she is ok of course, that is the most important thing but... Ug.

This is more about challenging your own (old) inner beliefs than about her changing what she now is. Exploring your own thinking is important  part of your healing, growing and moving on. And be assured, when you reach the end of your journey, you will still love and care.

Thanks Alvin. Wise words.

[Atari25]

I worry about my wife. She seems scared and confused but I can't help her. I offered to come but she didn't want that and I respect that.

Yes, you are right to respect her wishes. I stated in my previous post to you :

"What do you want to do? You can always ask her if you can come to the hospital and if she says no, of course you need to respect that.".

You are right, you can't help her.  I found this interesting what she said to your daughter

She doesn't want me there. She does tell my daughter "I don't want to burden him". I suspect that is cover though.

Glad to know that her tests came back "normal" and there isn't some serious issue going on that would cause her to faint.

I still hope she comes home one day but we aren't there and I don't know if we ever will be but like you, Like you I never stopped caring. 28 years together I can't stop, I don't know how.

Over the years there have been many posts made of how the MLCer feels like they have to leave or they will die. We don't get it, our marriages seemed very strong and loving and we were very shocked when they changed so drastically seemingly overnight. And as we often say "this is not about you and not about your marriage". We are the collateral damage and there is much we must do to rebuild our shattered selves.

Early on, when I read RCR's articles, I was struck by her article on agape and unconditional love.

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_unconditionals_agape.html

It seemed impossible to me at the time and the world kept telling me to cut ties with him, find someone new, he did not deserve me etc, etc. But on Heros Spouse, there was a different message that supported the concept of agape and unconditional love as well as forgiveness. The idea being that the LBSer would benefit from these things.

My faith also teaches me to "love"...simple but also so very hard to do.

The LBSer does get to choose. I choose to keep communication open and that has worked out well for me and my family.

I wish to remind posters that this is Atari's thread and that each one of us have something important to relate to him as well as to other posters. Our ideas are varied and it is best to let the individual LBSer come to their own conclusion regarding how they want to relate to their MLCer.

I am not going to justify my remarks and shall continue to express what I believe is true. If you wish to debate this issue further, then by all means start a new thread for a debate. No one poster's ideas are more important than any other's.

I'm not an overly religious person but I de believe very much in unconditional love and caring. She probably doesn't deserve it but she has never been mean to me or played games. She is very clearly confused and in mental crisis - I feel helpless. I have not given up on her yet though I know the road back if it goes that way is a long one.

Most of my friends think I should just dump her and move on. I just can't get there, at least not yet.

[Atari25]

My daughter came home yesterday and we lay in bed together talking about the events of the past 3 days. The accident story is weird and her reaction, following actions and emotional state are all over the place. My wife is mentally unstable, going from thankful, to scared, to delusional, to depressed all in 10 minutes. MLC is still strong and alive! I told me daughter to leave alone now and take care of herself. It's too much and she is dragging her down now.

I feel like there are more shoes to drop in the weeks ahead but today - all seems quiet and she is back to work tonight.

Her car is likely being written off and we will get a check from the insurance company, I doubt she can afford a new car but apparently she is shopping around for one now. I feel like I should help her out here. Should I offer? My daughter says no but she needs to get to work.... UG!

 

[xyzcf]

My wife is mentally unstable, going from thankful, to scared, to delusional, to depressed all in 10 minutes.

Before I found Heros Spouse, I used the word "flipping". Here the word "cycling" is used. It is the most bizarre thing to see. One day he would tell me something and sometimes even an hour later, he'd look at me as though I was from another planet when I would bring the topic up again. Makes it very hard for the LBSer to stay grounded at all.

Our kids, no matter what their ages are impacted greatly by all this as well. On top of our own hurt, we see them confused and hurting and it is a good thing that your daughter feels she can talk to you about what she is experiencing.

AS for helping her find a car, some people will say that you should not...that this is what she chooses. She might not like any suggestions you make...if she were to ask you and you were willing, then you might wish to help her. I think that unless she asks for your help, just let her be.

For me, there is a difference between my main goal of helping to maintain some sort of family and perhaps helping him if he was ill. The rest of his life is his to live.

I found on the other hand it hard for me to not ask for help with things..because he was very capable with fixing things and understanding the mechanics of stuff. But I became surprisingly knowledgeable about many things that I had previously not been responsible for. Lots of goggle and asking friends for some advice on some big stuff that happened to my house.

I feel like there are more shoes to drop in the weeks ahead

The uncertainty is difficult and our minds make up all kinds of stories of what may of may not happen. Plus, initially anyway, there was such emptiness because I did not know people here or have any family so it was hard to fill up my time. Bit by bit, I developed new interests and friendships to fill in the empty times.

[Biscuit]

If you really feel you want to offer then I might say, “do you want a hand with all the car business?” - if she says no or monsters about being capable of sorting it herself then you know not to bother again.

Others might suggest to let her get on with it herself.

[Atari25]

Our kids, no matter what their ages are impacted greatly by all this as well. On top of our own hurt, we see them confused and hurting and it is a good thing that your daughter feels she can talk to you about what she is experiencing.

AS for helping her find a car, some people will say that you should not...that this is what she chooses. She might not like any suggestions you make...if she were to ask you and you were willing, then you might wish to help her. I think that unless she asks for your help, just let her be.

For me, there is a difference between my main goal of helping to maintain some sort of family and perhaps helping him if he was ill. The rest of his life is his to live.

I found on the other hand it hard for me to not ask for help with things..because he was very capable with fixing things and understanding the mechanics of stuff. But I became surprisingly knowledgeable about many things that I had previously not been responsible for. Lots of goggle and asking friends for some advice on some big stuff that happened to my house.

I think my wife can buy a car ok but I know she doesn't have a ton of money and she doesn't make a lot. I have considered offering a few thousand but because I have been following no contact for the most part, will this ruin the progress I have made with her. Will she just  think she can come back for more money? Will she appreciate it at all? I don't know.

My wife has been nicer to me lately. I feel like this offer to help could maybe start to turn things.. Maybe I'm totally dreaming, I don't know.

I'm glad you were able to do things on your own and find new friends and hobbies. That's amazing. 😊

[Atari25]

If you really feel you want to offer then I might say, “do you want a hand with all the car business?” - if she says no or monsters about being capable of sorting it herself then you know not to bother again.

Others might suggest to let her get on with it herself.

That's not a bad way of phrasing it, thank you! Not saying too much but testing her reaction buy offering a hand.

[xyzcf]

She will probably never be who she was I accept that but I want her to eventually get through what she is going through and come back. She loved me for 25 year and I know that love is still there.

Again no guarantee I know. I can't give up on her yet.

I was told by my therapist that if I could get her in to a therapist it would likely shorten the MLC or whatever she is going through. She has seemed more open to the idea when talking to my daughter. I realize it's a long haul and no guarantee but I feel like it gives me hope. Maybe I'm fooling myself, I don't know.

Good morning Atari. I moved a couple of your posts  onto your own thread to respond to.

There is not any diagnostic criteria to determine if someone is having a crisis or not. There are varying degrees of the intensity of the crisis and no way of knowing how "severe" our spouse's will be. There are similarities in the history and the literature supports the behaviours and actions that we term MLC.

There is also our own gut feeling that something is wrong. I think we could also agree that this is not about you and not about your marriage.

Love has so many definitions and it's not as cut and dried that if they left us, then they must not love us or that we must try to "detach".  I think detach means different things to people as well. My own example is that I would consider myself detached, but I prefer to use the word accept that he is no longer the person I knew for 35 years. I loved the person he was, this one, not so much.

Many here try so hard to detach, some are upset because they do not feel that they are detached enough, or have not detached fast enough..or that they must work harder to detach. What does it mean to each of us, this word detachment?

In my own story, I think the trauma that happened to me when his crisis struck and all the "stuff" following has left me with some very deep wounds and deep feelings about our marriage and family.  I continue to experience the effects of this trauma, even though I have done the "work". And the effects are no where near as acute as in the early years.

Although the stories here do not indicate that therapy has helped the MLCer, as I said at the beginning, no one really knows if this is a correct "diagnosis" or not. If your wife is willing to go, a therapist might help her to uncover her past, and deal with her own trauma. And that would be good for her and probably her relationship with her kids and you.

I can't give up on her yet

This is resonating with me...trying to put into words what I am feeling when I read that statement, because I do understand it.....he gave up on me, he gave up on us and our family. This rejection and abandonment isn't something that we can easily cope with. People use different methods to decrease the pain caused by the rejection and abandonment, no one way is "correct" if it fits our beliefs and values......

Heartsblessing used to say that "if there is love, there is hope" yet we know that we cannot love them back, nor love them into being healed.....

I do wish to offer you some encouragement, because often people will suggest things that they believe to be true that are not true for your story.

I don't believe that "hope" is a bad thing. You build your own life, you don't interfere in her journey. This is the hard part as throughout our marriages, we always helped one another to get to that next place...and we have to learn that this is not our role anymore.

The different ideas that are expressed here are helpful to us. I am thinking, we have deep feelings and understanding of crisis and our spouses...and sometimes it is hard to see another's point of view. We continue to explore and change our own minds and hearts, it's our journey as well.