[sachertorte]

I hope you'll take good care of yourself. Please know that there are a lot of people in our situation. Moreover, you know what? If we LBS have gotten together with another LBS-type person instead of with the MLCer, I'll bet you many of us would be blissfully celebrating our anniversaries and living out our golden years together right now. Not walking through this vale of tears.

I am not blaming the problems of our marriages all on the other person. However, I know in my XH's case he is still unhappy, and he still blames me. Whereas I am happy with my own life without him. I am just unhappy to have had my family wrecked. It sounds like you are a great dad and husband, and feel your home should have been impregnable. I agree.

My own family of origin stayed intact and I think of it as the greatest gift. He on the other hand had no problem blowing up our family. Like your wife.

Except, guess what? The MLCer used to need us. Steadfast, honorable, and loyal as we are. They would never have picked those affair partners for marriage. They knew enough of the doubt thriving inside such people to stay away. My XH used to admire my upright character and revel in my love. He still marveled when we saw each other most recently about how loyal I have been. (I never turned against him during or after the divorce. He to this day thinks I would turn vindictive because of his cheating, 7 years out from BD. Projection.)

They needed our loyalty. They are just no longer loyal. Where does that put us?

I guess what I am trying to say is that it turns out maybe we just need someone who loves us the way we love the MLCer? And maybe we can start by loving ourselves the way we love the MLCer? Because that love is no longer valuable to or convenient for them.

What we hold sacred, they deem a hindrance.

We are in an intractable bind. Of the making of our own truthful nature. We deserved someone like ourselves, but people who needed our truthfulness got to us first.

And yet, maybe, they never truly knew us.

Bless.

[Atari25]

I hope you'll take good care of yourself. Please know that there are a lot of people in our situation. Moreover, you know what? If we LBS have gotten together with another LBS-type person instead of with the MLCer, I'll bet you many of us would be blissfully celebrating our anniversaries and living out our golden years together right now. Not walking through this vale of tears.

I am not blaming the problems of our marriages all on the other person. However, I know in my XH's case he is still unhappy, and he still blames me. Whereas I am happy with my own life without him. I am just unhappy to have had my family wrecked. It sounds like you are a great dad and husband, and feel your home should have been impregnable. I agree.

My own family of origin stayed intact and I think of it as the greatest gift. He on the other hand had no problem blowing up our family. Like your wife.

You are right - I'm sure if I had married someone with a happy childhood and no unresolved issues I would be very happily married. I was 100% committed to family life, wife and community.

My wife is definitely not happy either. She never will be. I tried to make her happy and failed.

Ok, I see, so some end in sight. I presume you have taken legal advice on what is fair and legally expected where you live wrt to spousal and child support etc, and bigger financial stuff like house, debts and pensions et al. And normal reasonable boundaries on timescales and conditions for any ongoing support as opposed to one-off clean break things? Plus I hope your half of the 25k she took from the house credit line.

Tbh I would pause a beat before texting her. Why? Bc it is probably wiser to keep the mediation talk to the mediation place, or legal talk to the lawyers if mediation doesn’t work out.  And I’m not sure what it would add…if she agrees with what’s on the table, or doesn’t, she is quite capable of saying so in the next Webex chat, right? What more/else do you think any text exchange gives you? And tbh, had she proven so far to be a woman whose word can be trusted….perhaps not?

Fwiw, it’s a not uncommon LBS thing to come up with reasons to contact them and we can fool ourselves a bit about that at your stage (puts hand up here lol). Everything from sick cats to plumbing problems to mail that turns up for them….. There’s a bit of our brain that feels almost a compulsive need to scratch an emotional itch, I think, even if we don’t know it….its a weird kind of denial/bargaining/ hope thing, I think. And we humans can be darned creative in rationalising our own reactions ha ha!

So the impulse is LBS normal lol…but i think you’d be wise to just do nothing, leave the ball in her court and see what she says in the next Webex. Take a breath. Use the old rule of 3 we talk about here. Do nothing until/unless you can be very clear-eyed about your objective. And when in doubt, do nothing much. Let things take place in the right place for them, and find other ways to scratch or process whatever the underpinning ‘itch’ is perhaps?

This stuff is painful and wearing though, isn’t it? It felt a bit like watching someone die to me; it was awful. If this is how it feels to you, all the more important that you dig deep in self-care and a bit of living that has nothing to do with all this stuff. How are you doing with that?

Thank you for the thoughts, I really appreciate what your wrote here. I spoke with the mediator and she will indeed help us together on-line hammer out an agreement. I will not call her and she is not asking me to. It's all good, I will let the process happen as it will. Ball is in her court to ask for what she thinks is fair, we shall see.

It's all very painful and wearing. I don't know how to personally process what's going on and my life right now. I have a session coming up next week with my therapist to help me. You are right, it's not dissimilar from a death. I don't know the person that was my wife. I thought I did - I was wrong.

I am trying so hard to take care of myself and I'm getting better at it as I slowly detach from her. I can't help but still feel guilt about enjoying myself while this is all going on though, I think that's the hardest part for me. I will literally stop having a good time some evenings and think about all the horrible things happening. I need to stop that.

[Flummoxed]

Give yourself grace- it’s hard to completely pivot as the LBS, especially with the divorce ongoing. You’re only human and you’re in the midst of detachment. Your emotions are valid; a part of you is still processing. But it’s great that you’re enjoying your life- that’s what you should be doing! We all fake it ‘til we make it during those tougher moments, but keep at it because you’re doing brilliantly.

[UrsaMajor]

My wife is definitely not happy either. She never will be. I tried to make her happy and failed.

This is because, as a living, breathing, fallible human being, you have absolutely NO chance to "make someone else 'happy,'" It is simply not possible. You may make them feel content, joyous, "happy" for a while but not permanently. This is the fallacy that people get coaxed into believing - that "the right person" can make them happy. The problem is that the "right" person is the one facing them in the mirror. Anything more than that is doomed from the start to fail. This is because we can only control ourselves. If we are not happy with ourselves (or, in our cases, the MLC'er) is not happy with themselves), in the end, there is no way we can "make" them happy and keep them happy. It is like pouring water into a bucket that has holes and where the MLC'er is busy poking MORE holes into the bucket. In the end, they blame us that e can't keep their bucket filled, whereas, in reality, they are the ones who are responsible for patching the leaks in their bucket so we can add our joy into it.......

Thank you for the thoughts, I really appreciate what your wrote here. I spoke with the mediator and she will indeed help us together on-line hammer out an agreement. I will not call her and she is not asking me to. It's all good, I will let the process happen as it will. Ball is in her court to ask for what she thinks is fair, we shall see.

Not to try to teach my grandmother to suck eggs but, form my experience with MLCxW1 (yeah, I won the jackpot and had to go through this twice now), it would be a good idea to have your ducks in a row in advance and know what you are entitled to and for what you are legally obligated to provide. Some MLC'ers are so ready to cut and run, they leave everything to the LBS. Others are so greedy and self-absorbed that they want everything and the kitchen sink to boot and will go to great lengths to get that. Having an idea of what is required and what is realistic before the Mid-Lifer comes to the table can save you an awful lot of time, expense and grief.

[Imgood]

You didn’t fail. People that have major unresolved issues fail themselves (they are most likely not aware of this) by rug sweeping, burying, keeping themselves distracted by staying busy and the list goes on. Please try to remember this. Change up the self-talk, it’s important what we tell ourselves. Some might see it as the mlcer failing them. Certainly an argument can be made for that. In my situation, I currently see a pained and depressed adolescent/middlescent trapped in a fifty something body. I see a defeated, lost and broken boy/man?. I find it very sad.

[Atari25]

This is because, as a living, breathing, fallible human being, you have absolutely NO chance to "make someone else 'happy,'" It is simply not possible. You may make them feel content, joyous, "happy" for a while but not permanently. This is the fallacy that people get coaxed into believing - that "the right person" can make them happy. The problem is that the "right" person is the one facing them in the mirror. Anything more than that is doomed from the start to fail. This is because we can only control ourselves. If we are not happy with ourselves (or, in our cases, the MLC'er) is not happy with themselves), in the end, there is no way we can "make" them happy and keep them happy. It is like pouring water into a bucket that has holes and where the MLC'er is busy poking MORE holes into the bucket. In the end, they blame us that e can't keep their bucket filled, whereas, in reality, they are the ones who are responsible for patching the leaks in their bucket so we can add our joy into it.......

From what I am reading these days you are 100% correct. Funny thing is I asked her last time I saw her if she was happy with her new life and she said "I'm trying". I thought to myself after, she was probably very honest with that statement. I tear up every time I think of her saying that,

Not to try to teach my grandmother to suck eggs but, form my experience with MLCxW1 (yeah, I won the jackpot and had to go through this twice now), it would be a good idea to have your ducks in a row in advance and know what you are entitled to and for what you are legally obligated to provide. Some MLC'ers are so ready to cut and run, they leave everything to the LBS. Others are so greedy and self-absorbed that they want everything and the kitchen sink to boot and will go to great lengths to get that. Having an idea of what is required and what is realistic before the Mid-Lifer comes to the table can save you an awful lot of time, expense and grief.

I don't think she will be greedy but I should know more in the next couple of weeks. My anxiety is so high about this.

You have been through 2X MLC divorces??

[Atari25]

You didn’t fail. People that have major unresolved issues fail themselves (they are most likely not aware of this) by rug sweeping, burying, keeping themselves distracted by staying busy and the list goes on. Please try to remember this. Change up the self-talk, it’s important what we tell ourselves. Some might see it as the mlcer failing them. Certainly an argument can be made for that. In my situation, I currently see a pained and depressed adolescent/middlescent trapped in a fifty something body. I see a defeated, lost and broken boy/man?. I find it very sad.

I agree - I think they don't know themselves. The amazing thing is she has seen the destruction and history of failed friendships and unhappiness and still refuses to get help. It's mind boggling.

It's very sad seeing someone you love and someone you have some much history with -  broken. I'm sorry you are in the same situation.

Give yourself grace- it’s hard to completely pivot as the LBS, especially with the divorce ongoing. You’re only human and you’re in the midst of detachment. Your emotions are valid; a part of you is still processing. But it’s great that you’re enjoying your life- that’s what you should be doing! We all fake it ‘til we make it during those tougher moments, but keep at it because you’re doing brilliantly.

I have a very good lady friend who has been through a lot and her husband committed suicide. We talk a lot and I think she is still faking it, a lot of pain inside. It's a long road and a lot of processing. Thank you.

[UrsaMajor]

Not to try to teach my grandmother to suck eggs but, form my experience with MLCxW1 (yeah, I won the jackpot and had to go through this twice now), it would be a good idea to have your ducks in a row in advance and know what you are entitled to and for what you are legally obligated to provide. Some MLC'ers are so ready to cut and run, they leave everything to the LBS. Others are so greedy and self-absorbed that they want everything and the kitchen sink to boot and will go to great lengths to get that. Having an idea of what is required and what is realistic before the Mid-Lifer comes to the table can save you an awful lot of time, expense and grief.

I don't think she will be greedy but I should know more in the next couple of weeks. My anxiety is so high about this.

You have been through 2X MLC divorces??

Yeah.... Lucky me, right?  Different experiences to a point but the same outcome.... MLCxW1 was like Godzilla with rabies on a bad day in terms of Monster..... I had to take legal measures to have access to my D(now34).  MLCxW2 was and is a Wallower par excellence.... However, she made an astonishing revelation at our last appointment with my D13's Therapist - "I had to learn how to make myself happy and I think that I am finally doing that." What I see speaks otherwise but time will tell..... I have, however, moved on so ....

I agree - I think they don't know themselves. The amazing thing is she has seen the destruction and history of failed friendships and unhappiness and still refuses to get help. It's mind boggling.

MLCxW 2 is the same. Her F (my xFIL-RIP) went toddling off into the tunnel and never did come out before he passed on to larger life. He left a tail of destruction behind him. My xMIL was pretty bitter about it the rest of her life as well and despite living / seeing this, MLCxW2 didn't think dealing with it was needed....

[Atari25]

Yeah.... Lucky me, right?  Different experiences to a point but the same outcome.... MLCxW1 was like Godzilla with rabies on a bad day in terms of Monster..... I had to take legal measures to have access to my D(now34).  MLCxW2 was and is a Wallower par excellence.... However, she made an astonishing revelation at our last appointment with my D13's Therapist - "I had to learn how to make myself happy and I think that I am finally doing that." What I see speaks otherwise but time will tell..... I have, however, moved on so ....

Wow that's incredible, I'm so sorry. I cannot imagine going through this again. I have learned so much this year, I feel like I will at least see some warning signs if I decide to date again. 

MLCxW 2 is the same. Her F (my xFIL-RIP) went toddling off into the tunnel and never did come out before he passed on to larger life. He left a tail of destruction behind him. My xMIL was pretty bitter about it the rest of her life as well and despite living / seeing this, MLCxW2 didn't think dealing with it was needed....

Wow - that's a lot.  I can't imagine how MLCs live with what goes on in their minds and in their lives. I wish so much I could help my wife because I still love who she was, it's just hopeless.

[UrsaMajor]

Wow that's incredible, I'm so sorry. I cannot imagine going through this again. I have learned so much this year, I feel like I will at least see some warning signs if I decide to date again. 

Well, one thing I can tell you from experience is to NOT ignore the red flags.. Don't think you can prove that not everyone in the world is like <whoever> because that is a SERIOUS indication of an MLC-in-waiting.... I wish I could have told myself that about 25 or so years ago but, on the other hand, if I didn't go down the path I did, I wouldn't have D13 and S17 now.....

Wow - that's a lot.  I can't imagine how MLCs live with what goes on in their minds and in their lives. I wish so much I could help my wife because I still love who she was, it's just hopeless.

It IS hopeless because you (the LBS) is absolutely the LAST person on the entire planet that can help the Mid-Lifer grow or heal.... All you can do is sit tight, grab the popcorn, and watch the impending train wreck from far enough away to not get caught in the resulting destruction more than you already have....