[Treasur]

I’d encourage you to try to take his behaviour at current moment face value (eg he is spending more time at home bc he wants to and you are not preventing him ) rather than reading too much more into its significance than that. Partly bc it seems to ebb and flow driven by things that probably are invisible to you rather than being a straight line. Including sadly the fingers of ow in the proverbial life pie. Mostly bc that sense of watching and waiting is rather tiring for you as a way to live.

Your first post said that with hindsight you think this was brewing for a couple of years pre BD, which is common. It would be unusual to see an MLCer come out of it quicker than they unravelled into it at least based on stories here. And there’s a lot of truth imho in the simple adage that if you are still confused, the game is still afoot.

What are you currently hoping for?
What would be an early solid marker of direction towards that for you?
What is your PoV about the issue of time?

[WHY]

Does reconciliation only take place once the MLCer has acknowledged what they did, take full responsibility, show genuine remorse, and work to make things right?

What if they never accept responsibility and continue to blame OW for them leaving?  Isnt this more escape and avoid?

[Happylight]

Does reconciliation only take place once the MLCer has acknowledged what they did, take full responsibility, show genuine remorse, and work to make things right?

What if they never accept responsibility and continue to blame OW for them leaving?  Isnt this more escape and avoid?

I do not believe I am in reconciliation.  I know that reconnection doesn't necessarily = reconciliation.  I do think we are still in escape and avoid.  For me, silence hasn't been broken and we have had no direct discussion about our relationship in over 3 months now.  I think for true reconciliation to happen they have to accept responsibility, but from what I have read, that can take a while to occur. 

[WHY]

Does reconciliation only take place once the MLCer has acknowledged what they did, take full responsibility, show genuine remorse, and work to make things right?

What if they never accept responsibility and continue to blame OW for them leaving?  Isnt this more escape and avoid?

I do not believe I am in reconciliation.  I know that reconnection doesn't necessarily = reconciliation.  I do think we are still in escape and avoid.  For me, silence hasn't been broken and we have had no direct discussion about our relationship in over 3 months now.  I think for true reconciliation to happen they have to accept responsibility, but from what I have read, that can take a while to occur.

How long is a while, in general?

[Happylight]

Mostly bc that sense of watching and waiting is rather tiring for you as a way to live.

Your first post said that with hindsight you think this was brewing for a couple of years pre BD, which is common. It would be unusual to see an MLCer come out of it quicker than they unravelled into it at least based on stories here. And there’s a lot of truth imho in the simple adage that if you are still confused, the game is still afoot.

It is exhausting.  That makes a lot of sense... I know that it isn't over. I just never imagined it would still be this hard over a year out.  I do feel like he is at least around 18 months into reply/emotional regression or escape/avoid. 

What are you currently hoping for?
What would be an early solid marker of direction towards that for you?
What is your PoV about the issue of time?

I mean ideally hoping for reconciliation, but I guess I wish it was more clear to me what direction I should take.  I hope that at some point I will know for sure if it is time to walk away.  I don't know if there is a solid marker or if it will just be something I am more sure of over time?    I am a high anxiety person and tend to try to base all my decisions on research and best practice data otherwise I get frozen.  Learning all I can about a topic is how I've dealt with my anxiety.  I've taken medication periodically in the past, but if I can function without them, I prefer to not be on them.  As for time, I had given myself till at least the end of the school year, and then said I would reassess at that time.  I set this timeline almost a year ago before I really learned about MLC, and it seemed so long at the time.  Now, it seems like that is approaching rather quickly, and I guess it scares me a bit.  I have moved forward with my own growth in so many ways, but I also feel isolated by my stand.  I don't share it because many people wouldn't understand, but I at the same time feel like I am trying to hide something or that I am not living authentically. 
 I am also tired from keeping up with everything on my own--parenting, working, meals, house, etc.  I have always had the mental load, but I lately I feel like--ALL THE THINGS make me want to scream and go on strike-- I have to cook another meal or take out the trash again, or get up and get my younger two up and moving.  My middle did just get her DL, which has helped with some of the load.  I just had to give myself permission to have my oldest son pick up pizza for tonight.

[Happylight]

How long is a while, in general?

I have read that for some people to take full ownership has taken a couple of years, but often they show actions before they show words. 

[UrsaMajor]

How long is a while, in general?

I have read that for some people to take full ownership has taken a couple of years, but often they show actions before they show words.

A "couple of years" is relative..... A couple of years from what starting point?

What does green taste like?

Some here have been reconnecting for several years now (Songanddance, Barbie) and their MLC'ers are still avoiding responsibility. Acorn, on the other hand, has a former MLC'er that has stepped up to the plate and accepted their part in the $#!tshow they created.....

Thinking that, after a certain amount of time, something magic is going to happen is akin to poking yourself in the nose with a Barbecue fork.....

[Happylight]

Well it's been a couple more weeks.  I still feel in general he is moving closer.  Trying to let go of expectations continues to be hard.  I think that rather than letting go--after a while you just become trained to understand a+b does not always equal c.  I find myself more tired even though things haven't been bad. 

This month, In the last 20 days he has spent 12 nights at home and has been at the house I think at 18 days.  The other night he was being very clingy--saying he loved me, that I was amazing, that I was USUALLY RIGHT, beautiful, a high value woman, and on him mind constantly....and I pushed a little.  I got some projection and a little bit of anger, but nothing like previous times, and at some point he even said that in a couple of days we will get over this and be back to how we have been (not together but not apart either), and told me about discussing being married with a younger MC member I have never met.  I asked if MC member knew he was married because I assumed he had just been pretending we were not together anymore when he was out with them/new people, and he said that he did. 

He invited me to go on a ride with him this weekend (Fri-Sun).  This is a ride that the went on with his buddies that I have known for our entire relationship, and it was an annual ride that they have taken for many years, but I was unable to join due to obligations with our children and school.  Also, he didn't go on this ride in the last year.  This time, I have a friend helping with my youngest, and my older two can drive, so I am taking off work on Friday to go.  Taking off work to enjoy life is also growth for me.   I have always felt so much obligation to be "responsible." 

Other things that have happened.  Our D16 totaled her car--not fun.  I called him and he answered (it was Saturday night and I didn't think he would).  After he knew I was handling it and that she was Ok, he still met us at the house and stayed.  In months past, after finding out she was ok, I feel like he would have just let me handle it and checked on her the next day.  He has also told me I can ask for anything I need for the kids and he will change or cancel his plans if he has to--I feel like this is a change in mindset because even pre-crisis I was having to handle many things because of his motorcycle club conflicts. 

Do they sometimes think about returning home, but refuse to admit it to themselves or follow through because of pride?  I feel like often he makes excuses for the reasons he stays--sometimes he admits he wants to see me, but often it is weather, work the next morning, etc.  Even though he now seems to see me in a different light, and he has accepted that there were things that he could have handled differently with the kids in the last couple of years, I don't think that he is really ready to admit or own up to all the lies, mistreatment, and broken promises with us. 

[Happylight]

Journaling...

We went on our weekend ride.  It was interesting for several reasons.  This trip is one that he has taken with his childhood buddies for years.  He used to ride with them before he got involved in MC (motorcycle club which I think has been a big part of replay).  I have never been able to go because our kids were younger and I didn't have anyone that could fill in.  He didn't go on it the last year.  These guys are like family to him.  I thought they knew we were kind of separated.  I never said anything, but I got the feeling that they were not aware.  There were several occasions where it seemed to me that he carefully crafted sentences or made statements to avoid any reference to the fact that he has been living in the RV.  I also observed certain things about his behavior and desire for approval and recognition that I had never noticed before --I think it was there, I just never recognized it as such.  Since he has never taken me on this trip before, he could have easily gone without me this time.  So, I think it was a positive. 

At this point, he has chosen to spend 16 out of 24 nights this month with me, and as been by the house and spent time there pretty much every day of those 24. 

I am also starting to learn more about God's message to me to --"BE STILL."  Originally, I had taken it as not pushing or trying to make something happen, but to learn to wait.  Recently I have realized that sometimes, it means not responding, reacting, or arguing my points.  I have realized that sometimes, when I don't say anything in reaction to unreasonable statements or decisions, he rethinks and will come back with something that makes more sense, but if I argue, it makes him dig his heels in. 

I do believe that he has been a high energy replayer --he engaged in high energy replay activity for well over a year (about 17-18 months).  I think he is still in replay, but it seems to be less high energy.  Does replay "wind down" gradually?  From what I have read, it seems like it is a downhill slope toward depression.  An analogy that I could make, it seems like it can be a swing slowing down--it keeps going but loses altitude over time and will eventually stop. 

[Happylight]

Some here have been reconnecting for several years now (Songanddance, Barbie) and their MLC'ers are still avoiding responsibility. Acorn, on the other hand, has a former MLC'er that has stepped up to the plate and accepted their part in the $#!tshow they created.....

Thinking that, after a certain amount of time, something magic is going to happen is akin to poking yourself in the nose with a Barbecue fork.....

Last weekend we went on a trip for the weekend, and it went pretty well.  I have the feeling that his oldest friends in the world don't have any idea of the magnitude of the upheaval that has gone on between us.  That at least tells me that he isn't sure enough of anything to make it solid by sharing with people that matter. 

He definitely seems to be spending more and more time at home.  He works from there as many days as he can (when he goes into the office, he doesn't actually work with people in person so he might as well work from home), and has spent the night there 10 days out of the last 14.  Two days ago he made the kids take out all the trash (while I was out walking) after I mentioned it was trash day, yesterday he did all of his laundry and put it away (most of his clothes have been at the house the whole time), and he unloaded and loaded the dishwasher and cleaned up kitchen --again while I was out walking.  These are not big things, but definitely positive signs since he has little to none of these things for well over a year now. 

He has admitted that he handled some things with our kids poorly in the past (when he was in the anger stage he was very reactive and argumentative with teenagers as well).  Issues that we fought about in the past where he angered me or was derogatory in some way (and I let him know), have been rephrased or handled differently when they come up again Example:  Discussing the concept of being a stay at home mom--I'm a teacher and we never even discussed me staying at home, but at one point (our youngest was already 10) when discussing he made me sound like he believed I was negligent and selfish because I had worked --I said that was unfair because I didn't decide that all on my own and we had never discussed it, but when this came up recently he front loaded by saying that we decided that I would work, but if he could do it again he thinks he would try to see if we could work that out. 


  We are 18 months from first bomb drop that I suspect was the beginning of replay, (he said he wanted a divorce and was really mean, but within a couple of hours was begging and pleading for forgiveness and said he didn't know what was wrong with him), but he was engaging in replay behaviors by then.  The bomb drop that truly clued me in to what was really going on was only 14 months ago.  I suspect he might be at the end of replay and kind of swinging back and forth between replay and depression/liminality. 
In reading Hearts Blessings materials, she said that MLCers will sometimes sneak home, where they just gradually return.  I get the feeling that he is not ready for discussions at this point.  However, I am thinking that if we do continue down this path, we have to have a conversation at some point.  I know that several others have been in reconnection for a while.  Do I wait to see if he will come to me? 

Advice or insight appreciated!