[FaithWalker]

I was also given the silent treatment a lot.  I felt irrelevant.  I know now that I matter and I'm not irrelevant.  It's hard to be ignored and discarded.  There was a quote that got to me a while back.  It crushed me, but the 2nd part helped me.

“To be loved but not known is comforting but superficial. To be known and not loved is our greatest fear. "

I feel like MLC did play out my biggest fear. 

The rest goes...
"But to be fully known and truly loved is, well, a lot like being loved by God. It is what we need more than anything. It liberates us from pretense, humbles us out of our self-righteousness, and fortifies us for any difficulty life can throw at us.”

That helped me.  Remembering that God knows me, all of me, the good and the bad, and still loves me, despite that has helped me regain my equilibrium.

[sachertorte]

I am so sorry you are going through this. You are not alone. Every single word you wrote, I could have and did write myself. And for the last 6.5 years have read thousands upon thousands of posts containing the exact fatal narrative.

Our teen daughter told me she was having thoughts of suicide. And this was 3 months before we told her we were divorcing. When I tried telling him that she wasn't doing well -- I naively thought I could convince him to rethink the divorce if he only saw the damage he was doing to her -- he told me, "I am feeling wonderful! I am totally free of this circle of depression you and DD are caught in." It felt like we were coming down with the Black Death and he was happy to be plague-free. We were his wife and only child!

And the crazy thing is, from his perspective, he probably did try to do something about that "depression circle" around our daughter. He tried spending more time with her and delayed telling her about the divorce. After he dropped that bomb she then told him she had thoughts of self-harm. He told her "we put people like you who complain while having a good life to work on farms back in my home country," took her on a 3-week trip to Europe (replete with looking up women for flings), came back and complained to me about our daughter refusing to talk to him the whole time, fought with OW1, dragged his feet a bit, then moved out finally.


And when covid hit he had DD come and tell me, "Mom, dad told me to tell you he can't honor the custody agreement and spend 50% time with me because he needs to spend more time with his new girlfriend (OW2, 1 year-relationship) and her two children." I thank God so much that I had the flexibility at work then to chauffeur her around, be at her beck and call, take all her rage and show her unadulterated love and devotion. I can't imagine what would have become of her if I was off gallivanting like he urged me to do (they always want to assuage their own guilt by telling you to go date.)

It's been 4 years since the divorce and we haven't lived in the same country for 3. He recently asked to meet me over coffee and I reluctantly did for our daughter's sake. Turns out OW2 has now been swapped for another gf (I shouldn't call them OWs because they came after the divorce began, but just for clarity's sake.) He was upset with OW2 for not wanting to move him into her place because her 16 year-old daughter did not feel safe; he felt she did not trust him. (I thought: dude, you had it too easy. I never dated all this time, so you were never subjected to the debacle of some shirtless guy traipsing past our teen child's bedroom door in the morning! But seriously, how can you possibly not see why your gf won't trust you with her daughter? It may seem grossly unfair, but if you are a cheater others, including your lover who also cheated on her own husband, start to assume the worst about you.)

At some point he turned to me and expressed surprise that I was so loyal. He knew I stood for him for 5 years. I don't think he ever truly knew me. I was and am always loyal. You can count on me. I don't think he knows what that means any more. He is surprised and taken aback when confronted with it.

The only feeling I had left was numbness when I heard him say that. Unforunately in LBS land that sometimes passes as the only possible feeling. My only comfort was that I have not let any of this change me, with God's help. And with his -- as formerly he was a loving and supportive spouse. I am still loyal -- to my convictions. I will not behave with meanness and rancor no matter what.

He said: I married the wrong person. (I think he's always terrified I would say something along those lines, so he says it first. Plus he genuinely believes I am to blame for everything. Then again, I feel he's to blame all too often, so maybe we are even on that lol)

I wrote once about the above happenings on Reddit, trying to ask what happened to the protective instincts men are supposed to possess. Incredulity greeted me. One guy wrote: "Like other comments have said, i have trouble figuring out if this is just a well-written joke or not. "

I am, again, so sorry you are caught up in this. It does get better. You and your children should find joy and peace. I have found them frequently, through the help of God. I wrote all of this to let you know that you are not to blame. Nobody deserves the above.

I wish you and your loved ones joy and peace. I pray for us all.

[sachertorte]

One last thought: They are able to be so cruel and detached because they are medicated by the infatuation of the affair. The neurochemical effect is like that of crack cocaine. It blocks out shame, guilt, pain and the ability for introspection. It doesn't excuse what they do, just sheds light on something that strikes the LBS and children as extraordinary.

[Tailspin]

Thankyou all for the personal stories and advise.  Very eye opening.  I really feel for all these stories.
The emotional detachment is truly hard to understand.  The marriage consular in our 1 on 1 session before the main session had asked me if I had ever cheated because she said there seemed to be an extreme anger towards me in her interview with my wife.  She asked my wife if she could share some things said and she said yes.  I explained I had never strayed and believed in marriage vows very seriously.  She went on to explain that the level of anger she saw was usually only at spouses who had been cheating.   Little did I know at the time but my wife had already started he affair months prior.  I had suspected something but didn't have proof yet. 
The other strange thing I saw and I know others here have mentioned it was the changing of the eye color.  When I first saw my wife remove her ring I asked what she was doing.  She didn't say anything and I told her how upsetting it was to me.  When I looked at her eyes they were shark grey when normally they are blue/green.  I had never seen that in all our years of marriage.  In all honesty, it freaked me out.  She said nothing in the end about it. 
My days are now just communicating with the kids when at home.  Wife won't even say good morning when I say it to her.  When she has something to tell me about picking something up or car issues she just texts me.  In the same house and she texts me.  So weird. 
I still care for her and told her I will stand till the end of marriage.  I realize over the past few months she has been trying to make me end the marriage.  I think she feels it would end her guilt.  She keeps saying "You should have seen my unhappiness" and "Why can't you understand I don't love you anymore".  She one time even said "I was stupid to marry a nice guy, I knew better".  No real understanding what that means.  Maybe that explains why she messing around with married jerk of a man.   

[xyzcf]

Good morning Tailspin and welcome to Hero's Spouse.

The similarities in our stories, the similarities in the changes that we see in our spouses strangely reassured me. This is not about me or our marriage. It is indeed a crisis that has many causes and is not at all understood or accepted by many in our world.

A neighbor of mine recently commented that in talking to my wife she seemed to have a teenager type mentality.  He said it was like speaking to a 15-year-old.

One theory that I feel fits is based upon Eric Erikson's Stages of Development. Something has happened perhaps during one of these stages of life that prevents them from accomplishing the tasks that are an important part of that stage. We often see behavior that is much younger than their chronological age, it's very common.

The change in eye color, anger and refusal to speak to us is also common.

It hurts ...it wounds us deeply...the spouse that we were joined to, the total trust in another human being is gone. There are consequences to our children, to other family members and friends and the world as we know it is blown apart...we can do nothing to stop the carnage.

Rejection, abandonment and betrayal, still painful for me years later.

Like you, my faith became stronger and I found peace and much gratitude for what I have in my life. When this first happened, a priest I turned to asked me to read  Luke 15:11-32, The Prodigal Son. That laid the foundation, and by God's grace......allowed me to enter into a relationship of unconditional and agape love for my husband.....following Our Lord's command to "love one another as I have loved you."

Many do not agree. But this has and does reasonate with my beliefs. I believe in the pathology of MLC...seeing the mess they make of their lives, their inability to heal relationships, the choices they make......something inside of them is very broken.

Life goes on, we heal, we grow and time passes...sometimes, in our grief, we don't fully live as we should.....it does take time to reorganize the life that we are living now.

I found the website Rejoice Ministries very helpful to me and the prayers of others...the angels who have been with me when I could barely breath.

We are here, this group are tremendously supportive and share their own personal stories in an effort to help others, to know that we are not alone in this.

As you read the stories and find others who share your beliefs, let it take you to a place of peace.... as you have stated:

I know God has a plan for everyone.  Sometimes you can't see the bigger picture.  We live by God's timing and not our own.

[sachertorte]

Tailspin, I hope this may help in whatever way possible. My daughter and I are very close, and she is a thoughtful, courageous, introspective, lovely young woman. As soon as she left therapy recently the self-harm thoughts did return; she told me, "mom, I feel that way when I recall yelling that I want to cut off your head." (She was terrified of ex abandoning her, so saved most of her anger to vent for me as she was sure I wouldn't bolt.)

I told her, "First of all, I vaguely recall this only now because you mention this. Secondly, I felt so happy and blessed you told me that. When you stonewalled me, I was utterly lost. I didn't know where you were emotionally and how I could reach you in that fog. When you told me things like those was when I could read you correctly. I thought: 'my child is in enormous pain, because she was the sweetest, most serene and affectionate 14 year-old before this. I don't have to do anything except accept and love her unconditionally.  So it literally was like walking into the base of a rainbow when you did that." She knew I don't lie.

She was slacking in college and listless. I visited her for a month, asked to go to class with her, and had lunch with her friends. We spent weekends sightseeing an old European city, eating dessert in bed, binge Netflix and hang out in cafes. She immediately found a job fair, went to class every day, and brightened so much I needed sunglasses to see   Those blasted thoughts have gone away.

We can't save anyone else in the world except, God willing, our children. I know I did, with her help. We are blessed.
Watch out for high-risk behavior. When I told ex about her saying "all men are trash" -- that accompanied her acting out -- ex said she'll get over it. He did not have the courage to look into it himself. He has stuck around and improved slowly over the years. It does mean a lot to her when he comes and spends time with her on her birthday. I reduced his guilt by putting on a good face and telling him there was nothing to forgive. YMMV.

About your ex's comment. Her self-esteem is abysmal. I might be wrong, but I think she meant she did not deserve a nice man. She knew she should not have wrecked your life. She has the emotional bandwidth of whatever mental age her trauma lands her at, as Treasur says, so whether she is capable of apologizing remains to be seen. I have never gotten one. But it sounds close to one. It all makes sense. They don't feel like they deserve us, I think. She was all along also terrified of being hurt, so if she'd married an abusive jerk she could have left him with less pain. Unfortunately, someone who feels they are worthless will treat their loved ones with the same disregard they feel they deserve, in such instances.

The fact that the counselor was so off in her diagnosis may well mean that we are a small subset of the divorce world. She was right if you flip the diagnosis, which means she hasn't seen this before? Or maybe she guessed the truth all along and, knowing the MLCer would never blame themselves, tried this angle to see if that might spur the MLCer's conscience, seeing that the innocent spouse was getting insult upon injury?

[Tailspin]

About your ex's comment. Her self-esteem is abysmal. I might be wrong, but I think she meant she did not deserve a nice man. She knew she should not have wrecked your life. She has the emotional bandwidth of whatever mental age her trauma lands her at, as Treasur says, so whether she is capable of apologizing remains to be seen. I have never gotten one. But it sounds close to one. It all makes sense. They don't feel like they deserve us, I think. She was all along also terrified of being hurt, so if she'd married an abusive jerk she could have left him with less pain. Unfortunately, someone who feels they are worthless will treat their loved ones with the same disregard they feel they deserve, in such instances.

This is an aspect I never thought of.  After giving your heart and soul to someone you hope that there can be a real effort to save things and make things work.  With MLC you don't get that chance.  They determine that you are the reason for the internal pain.  That's the closure I'll never have.  I really wanted to know we exhausted every avenue to make things good.  Instead, she's fallen for a man who has given her nothing but attention. 

[Tailspin]

One last thought: They are able to be so cruel and detached because they are medicated by the infatuation of the affair. The neurochemical effect is like that of crack cocaine. It blocks out shame, guilt, pain and the ability for introspection. It doesn't excuse what they do, just sheds light on something that strikes the LBS and children as extraordinary.

This is such a true statement.  Painfully true. 

[Tailspin]

I think the most important thing I learned from my whole experience so far is that we have to accept our situation.  At first, I fought it and tried to talk things out and learn why it was all happening.  This was when I didn't know what MLC really was.  When I found this site and Heart's blessings I read so much and absorbed a whole lot but admittingly still thought my situation could be different.  I now understand that the advice here was always right.   Letting go was truly one of the hardest things I ever had to do.  I still struggle with at times now but have gotten better.  HB had an article entitled "Let Them Go!!!" and it really hit hard.  Unless I let that emotional rope go, I realized I would never start my own healing.
I live my own life now with my kids in the same house as she continues to plan her exit and divorce.  There will be no changing her mind now and her OM is her focus right now. 
I feel bad for her as her depression and internal strife are ruining her.  The focus on her appearance has become so obsessive that is it hurting her as she's trying to fight the reality that we are getting older and that doesn't stop.  I wish she would come back to church with me and the kids.  I wish she would see what the family is feeling.  I know she can't right now. 

[Happylight]

I just found her page.  Thanks for the information.  I have been looking at Heart's Blessings page and it's been a real God send.

I have found a lot of understanding through Heart's Blessings stuff as well.  Her son also published a book of her writings after her death.  I recommend it as well!