[xyzcf]

Would there be any upside to having this conversation?

I may be wrong but perhaps you think by having a conversation, that will have some impact, some effect on him. Most likely it will not. It might give you some insight into where he is at or it might upset you further when you don't get the answers that you wish to hear.

I don't think they are playing mind games with us. They have no clue it seems of how much this hurt us.....they compartmentalize and as KayDee's therapist said:

 

She suggests that he is like this to 'protect himself' - as in he cuts off his emotions, disassociates from them (incl. his crap behaviour, which equals shame) and puts up a big old ice wall. Easier to focus on logistics and cling to Mister In Control persona, than actually acknowledge you are completely out of control, which is part and parcel of a crisis.

I did choose to have contact with him, albeit, very superficial. It's very telling to me in our family pictures, how cold and distant he is..the tin man without a heart.

It helps to share what our IC's say about them...remembering that they have never met the MLCer so cannot make any kind of diagnosis....my IC told me when I questioned why he continues to see me, bring me gifts and then disappears...she said " he comes to see you with a pacifier in his mouth which he removes, plugs into you and when he gets his "fix", he puts it back into his mouth again and goes on his way...until the next time he needs it charged".

Appearances have always mattered to him much more than to me, and so it might be that he can show the world what a "good guy" he is and how we are "friends"...his friends and colleagues will believe what he tells them and everyone lives happily ever after........

I would always take the opportunity to have a conversation with him, because it gives me insight and understanding of who he is, which helps me to distance myself as this is the complete opposite of who he was. My example of one.

He keeps wishing me peace and happiness

this....goes to show how absolutely out of touch with reality he is...shaking my head because it's so absurd....I often said that if this was not happening to me, I would be fascinated by the psychology of MLC.

[Flummoxed]

Thank you, Treasur, KayDee, and xyzcf for all of your insights and feedback! I truly appreciate it all!

Honestly, logically, I know I will not see or hear a change in him if I meet with him. It’s only been a bit over a month since BD 2- so maybe a few minutes in MLC world? I guess my little bit of hope was acting up because he sounded like himself (over text), I hadn’t talked to him directly in weeks, and a part of me wants to connect. But I know that if my physical reaction to those handful of texts is any indication, I am not detached enough from him to not be extremely hurt over a conversation. It is probably best to stick to succinct, as necessary, written communication for now.

And it’s a relief to know that likely nothing I do or do not do will have any impact on what’s going on with him. You’d think I would have retained this lesson- I clearly did not. After years of walking on eggshells, this is actually a really freeing thought.

That makes complete sense regarding the cold behaviors! We had a very similar experience- although BD 2 felt like it came from the Arctic depths, H was very confused and emotional when he met my mom to chat two weeks later. The front is just to get stuff done and “protect themselves”, I guess. From what, I still don’t know. I really wish we didn’t have to be on the receiving end of all this chaos. I guess they think we’re safe and won’t go anywhere?

I need to remember that they just don’t understand how much  pain they are inflicting. I keep seeing his actions as purposeful and I need to work on not taking it personally but rather standing aside and protecting myself as he self-destructs. But how do you get to that point? It took me two decades to get there with my father (another story)- I really don’t want to have it take another two decades!

My mom had told him she was praying for him and I had wished him health and wellness a few weeks ago. I don’t know if he truly means it or if he’s mimicking our behavior, but my gut tells me there is a part of him that cares and/or feels obliged to support. Not enough to actually action on anything, but I think a part of him currently sees me as a generally nice person who he is willing to verbally say he would like to help. I suppose I should be thankful for the little things, but not get swayed by thinking it means anything more. Words are only words.

Is that what the LBS is at the end of the day? A charging station?  Until we distance ourselves and recharge to the point of being a lighthouse? I would love to be able to check in and keep the lines of communication there at least a smidge but I know I’m just not strong enough yet. And I suppose that comes with time and an incredible amount of inner strength. I worry that if/when the day comes that he can treat me with the respect I deserve, that I won’t be receptive to it. I know RCR speaks about forgiveness and I guess that comes down to us learning to let go after a good chunk of time. Also remembering that they aren’t themselves but their polar opposites- for some reason that fact doesn’t want to stick. If nothing else, this truly is a test of patience and adaptability, isn’t it?

What would be best for me right now? Continuing with IC and strengthening my own resolve. Turning the focus back on me and returning to the things that have always brought me joy. Once the divorce is through, I plan to move into my own place and start putting down roots. I bought a couple of art pieces from local artists; one weirdly aligns with this MLC/LBS experience. I’m trying to turn the future into something to look forward to. I do have tickets to a concert tonight but am not sure if I’m up to going. I bought them for the two of us and don’t feel inclined to sit next to an empty seat all night.

I worry he’s so deep in the fog that our divorce won’t even register to him. But, much like Treasur framed, why am I focusing on him when he is out of my control? What do I need? I need to find my bearings and move forward. I had been in limbo since 2022 (when his suspect moods and behaviors arose) until present day. I need to chart my own path, continue with my healing, and stop looking at the future in fear.

Thank you all so much for your feedback and guidance. I know I’m rambling at this point but I am so thankful for this forum and so thankful for all of you!

[xyzcf]

I would love to be able to check in and keep the lines of communication there at least a smidge but I know I’m just not strong enough yet. And I suppose that comes with time and an incredible amount of inner strength.

I did not want to live "in fear" of contact with him...I wanted to be strong enough to be in his presence without it shaking my world.

I was helped by my therapist to understand that it was totally up to me whether I saw him or not (he is a clinger so that would not be true of a vanisher) AND that I could change my mind from one day to the next regarding if I wished to have contact with him.

This was very freeing because it means I don't have to set anything in stone...I don't have to come up with ultimatums or strict boundaries or rules...I just needed to become desensitized to my fear that he could hurt me again.

I have no need to "punish" him by withdrawing my presence or exclude him from family functions (in my case only my daughter and husband, he is not welcomed by my siblings and I don't want him there) his life is a punishment itself as far as I can see.

I know RCR speaks about forgiveness and I guess that comes down to us learning to let go after a good chunk of time. Also remembering that they aren’t themselves but their polar opposites- for some reason that fact doesn’t want to stick. If nothing else, this truly is a test of patience and adaptability, isn’t it?

Forgiveness was key for me to let go of anger, bitterness or any ill feelings towards him....once again, a very freeing experience and lets me get on with my life without wasting precious emotional energy on "what a bad person he is"...rather how very sad that such a good person was inflicted by a crisis.

This took many years to attain but I have not regretted the road I took. I accepted that there was no way to erase him or the love I have for him from my life, but I also could not let that destroy who I was and who I am meant to be.

[Flummoxed]

Very sage advice, xyzcf- thank you so much for sharing.

I would love to desensitize myself- I don't want to live in fear or be impacted so much by his presence either. It is great to know we can change our minds and adjust as we see fit- we don't have to set a standard and maintain that. Much like it was clarified for me when I first joined the forum- I don't have to decide to stand right away nor do I have to maintain my position. I still have a hard time remembering that he's going through a terrible trial- I'm having a hard time breaking out of my perspective and pain to see his; however, I am trying. I think once that realization hits, it will be easier to not take things personally and show compassion.

I put a little bit of that flexibility into practice today. I had to communicate a bit more with H today as I had received some interest from a third party to purchase our shared property. I tried to act with kindness but detachment after reading a Hearts Blessing article on detachment and love. Yesterday, I had been very short with my answers and rather formal, kind of like his cold tone of voice, because I was hurt and wanted to enforce boundaries. Today, I tried to come from a place of general love and understanding- not for him as my H but more so him as a person. I told him that it was not my place to ask what he intends to do with the property once he becomes the sole owner, but I conveyed the third party's interest so that he was aware and left it at that. He responded back a bit curtly, but based off of the info you have all shared earlier on this thread, I'm doing my best to interpret it as him trying to manage something internally and not to take it personally.

I love that forgiveness has helped you move forward and live your best life on your terms while still having that love for his true self in your heart and not letting everything else weigh you down. I truly hope to one day get there myself; hopefully all of these little steps will get me to reach that space. I did go to the concert I had bought us tickets for- got there late after a bunch of overthinking but I went and used the extra seat space as extra dancing room. It was truly a night to remember, but it hit me all over again when I left the venue. Time heals all wounds, right? Do the retriggering little heartbreaks stop at a point or are those just constant unless a person stops standing and truly moves on?

To commemorate the night, I'm adding the lyrics to "Good Riddance" by Green Day. Hits a little too close to home but I've also found it therapeutic depending on one's mindset at the time. Wishing him well and working on letting go of the rope.

Firetruck

Another turning point, a fork stuck in the road
Time grabs you by the wrist, directs you where to go
So make the best of this test, and don't ask why
It's not a question, but a lesson learned in time

It's something unpredictable
But in the end, it's right
I hope you had the time of your life

So take the photographs and still frames in your mind
Hang it on a shelf in good health and good time
Tattoos of memories, and dead skin on trial
For what it's worth, it was worth all the while

It's something unpredictable
But in the end, it's right
I hope you had the time of your life

It's something unpredictable
But in the end, it's right
I hope you had the time of your life

It's something unpredictable
But in the end, it's right
I hope you had the time of your life

[Flummoxed]

Super low today- came across new info from another friend. Confirmed that there have been multiple OWs, but seems like the current one is the one H is open to risking it all for. Met less than a year ago, but he’s been open about his affair on social media (after blocking me and my friends, of course). No one reached out to me, but I guess they didn’t want to get involved.

Looks like he may have stolen my guitar and accessories too. I was always hesitant to go into the guest room when he was home- I didn’t notice it was missing until earlier this month. A friend noted he had seen it in a social media post of H’s, playing along with OW. Another long sigh.

It breaks my heart, but I’m doing my best not to take it personally.  That they played music together, which is something we always wanted to do (I’m just a beginner). Of course, he won’t post the bad stuff on social media- no one ever does.

I guess I’m just sinking. Mentally, I understand he has to experience this and break free from it on his own. He’s dealing with his childhood traumas as a broken person with another broken person. Emotionally though… the hits just keep on coming. I don’t know how to not take this personally. I’m trying but it’s not working.

My friend went through his own mild transition it seems. It lasted two years and never went past an EA. But he admits to having been a total @$$hole, surrounding himself with fake friends, and distancing himself from the people who cared. It wasn’t until he himself decided to make a change that things came around and though he’s still a work in progress, it was hopeful to see him own up to the error of his ways and work on strengthening his relationship. I don’t know if I will be so fortunate, but after all the pain H has put me through and I guess the public nature of his infidelity, maybe I won’t want him back if he did return.

Just feeling lost in life. I’m reconnecting with old friends, spending time with my loved ones, working on myself, opening myself up to new hobbies and classes. But I feel like I’m one foot in the present and one foot in the quicksand of grief. I have a mask for the outside and when I come home, I just fall apart.  Much like an MLCer, I guess. He killed what we had for multiple women (women he has admitted to barely even remembering) and now is putting the final nail in the coffin for this broken person who will run him to the ground for money. It’s a tough reality to accept.

[Reinventing]

Flummoxed,

Yes, it is hard to unhitch your emotions, especially hearing things about him and OW. Since you can't do anything about it, perhaps ask people to not tell you anything right now. You can always change that in the future.

You are raw and may need to put on your oxygen mask first, so to speak, for a bit. Focus on yourself and get stabilized. Notice what helps you stay on an even keel and feel better and do more of that. Do less of things that send you in a downward spiral (for right now that may be news about him).

For me--my experience--when everything was so raw it helped me to move my focus away from him and on to me. That meant I watched what helped me feel better. I only communicated briefly about business and then began exercising, attending a divorce recovery group, found an IC, took a cooking class, etc. I asked people not to tell me anything for a period of time to give myself a breather from the rollercoaster of emotions.

When I was stronger, my emotions weren't so tied to what I was hearing or by contact from him.

[KayDee]

Sorry you are feeling so low Flummoxed.

Reinventing gives great advice. Create a haven around yourself now, it's does nothing to help your healing to hear what your H is doing. And it's all a second or third hand information filtered through social media. And something to consider - he did not post those images on social media to hurt you, if that was the aim, he'd have made sure your were looped in. No - he did that for his own ego and vanity and to show his in-group how cool he is. How 'great' his life is now. I expect anyone with an ounce of decency will see what a turd he is being. This is where you are right to not take it personality, although boy, it hurts. I know.

I, like you I think, analyze things a lot. For me, gaining some understanding helped me not take my H's behaviour so personally. But at a certain point, I had to start saying to myself 'and so what?' Not in a cold or hard way, but because the knowledge does not change the actions. And the actions are damaging. It didn't happen overnight for me, and I still try to get some understanding of the 'motivations' but less so now. Funnily, it has helped me in other relationships and situations, learning not to take things so personally (silver lining number 28 )

If you can give yourself some respite from your H's chaotic behaviour for a while, you will probably find that you can look at the situation with a bit more clarity. So hard to do that when MLC dust keeps getting kicked in your eyes.

[forthetrees]

You are right- it is hard to not take it personally. Your description of one foot in the present and one in the quick sand of grief is apt. What you are experiencing is normal for the LBS so take some strength from knowing that since what you are feeling now is normal, you will one day reach the healing stage of not having it feel like you´re being emotionally flayed. The saying, "Sometimes the loss of the illusion is greater than the loss itself." by Susan Ban Breathnach helped me a lot. Now that you know that he was unfaithful several times, perhaps use this quote as a mantra and it will help you reorient your brain as to who he is vs. who you thought he was.

[Flummoxed]

Thank you, Reinventing, KayDee, and forthetrees!  I’ve reread your words over and over- they’ve picked me up from the ground and I sincerely appreciate them.

Apologies in advance for another long, rambling post.

It’s nice, in a way, to know this is normal and to be expected. I’m doing my best to stay busy- I have at least one fun thing to do a week and I’m looking to add more to my calendar. Old friends have been so supportive- without asking more about the situation, they’ve been so welcoming and open to spending time. I truly appreciate them all.

I will definitely implement a don’t tell policy moving forward. You all are right- if I can limit the intel, I can limit the effect on my life. I can’t handle it at this time and truly I do not want to know. There is no benefit. I am honestly looking forward to the divorce finalizing at this point- I don’t want to think about him at all. I feel like the divorce is what is keeping my mind focused, in addition to the little BDs along the way. Once I get that distance, it should be easier to move forward for myself, right?

And something to consider - he did not post those images on social media to hurt you, if that was the aim, he'd have made sure your were looped in. No - he did that for his own ego and vanity and to show his in-group how cool he is. How 'great' his life is now. I expect anyone with an ounce of decency will see what a turd he is being. This is where you are right to not take it personality, although boy, it hurts. I know.

Thank you for this, KayDee- I think you may be right. I think a part of him doesn’t want to hurt me (he does think, at least currently, that I’m a nice person but that’s about it) but, of course, it won’t stop him from doing all he’s doing. Either that or he just didn’t want to get caught since he hadn’t made his mind up yet? He did decide to make his actions super public though. And no one said anything to me- either they didn’t want to get involved or maybe they buy into his story. I know I cannot control others- I can only control myself. It’s just painful to learn that things were even more awful than I thought. Not so fun to learn that I’m the last to know.

"Sometimes the loss of the illusion is greater than the loss itself."

I love this quote- it truly fits the circumstance. I am definitely grieving the loss of the illusion- he truly is a complete stranger now. It makes the divorce process a bit easier to go through in a way. The person I loved is gone and this stranger, who feels guilt and shame without knowing why, is all that’s left.

At this time, I do not know if I have it in me to stand. I am not ready to move on to another relationship anytime soon but the level of destruction and the public nature of it all… he confessed to my in-laws and they didn’t have the decency to let me know either. And apparently MLCers go through this process and most don’t remember anything from it? But we LBSs are left with the scars, the memories, and the uphill battle of learning how to trust again (if we ever get to that point). I sit here and wonder- is this worth it?

I currently do not see a world where we could rebuild and reintegrate our families. Even if he became the most wonderful version of himself, I would need to learn to forgive and trust him, the in-laws, and all of our mutuals. I can’t see a way in which this could be redeemed. I don’t think I have the level of patience required to stand through all the phases of this insanity. I was reading articles from Hearts Blessing’s page and it just sounds like I’ve got to become Buddha to make it through this if I’m interested in standing and I very clearly don’t have that in me.

So I look forward to the divorce finalizing. I look forward to getting my own place and fostering my friendships. I look forward to diving in fully with new and old hobbies and making so many brilliant new memories with these lovely people who do see my value. I look forward to further fostering my inner self and loving the universe and myself enough to the point where none of this will matter.

[amazinglove]

I really feel for you in your post and I can relate to so much of it.

This part had me puzzled, "And apparently MLCers go through this process and most don’t remember anything from it"

Why do we think they have no memory of what they've done? I don't think I believe that they lose their memories of all the terrible things they are doing once they 'come out of it' - that would be bizarre. why do we think that?

Sorry if I missed something!