[agape]

Even in depression they get attention by being different then they were before. I don't think they are doing this on purpose. I believe it is subconscious, the body trying to get attention or help from an outside source.

So the body acts out in order to get better. My opinion anyway, don't know if this makes any sense.

[HeartsBlessing]

Drama is something a MLC'er uses to feed his or her justification for their actions...very similar to a teenager in pubery who overreacts(at least in a parent's estimation)to a setting of limits.

Since the MLC'er is an adult, or is supposed to be;  and while I realize it makes  no sense that their sense of responsibility is totally gone; yet, when you think about it, a wayward teen that is causing loads of trouble or "drama" is not much different.

It is definitely about CONTROL of a situation; one set of rules for the MLC'er(according to their sense of entitlement) another set of rules for the LBS.

The more drama the MLC'er can cause; the more CONTROL they THINK they have gained within a situation.

When you refuse to engage; it, in effect, takes away their ammunition for feeding their jusitification...and at first it makes them VERY angry; that they cannot get a rise out of the LBS...and like a child, they will keep trying.

As time goes on, and the refusal to engage becomes more firm; it does become a "limit" that is set upon the MLC'er...actually forcing them to accept that their behavior no longer affects the LBS...and they have to find another way to relate; much like that SAME teen who is testing the limits.

The refusal to engage the MLC'er is the ONLY type of boundary that can be set in early MLC that will hold strong.

However, it takes a great amount of strength to stop engaging.  It is all too easy to start arguing back, and see it get totally out of control to the point the MLC'er is more or less satisfied that the LBS is as "weak" as he/she THOUGHT they were, and the MLC'er sees it as regaining control of the situation as a whole once again.

If the situation goes too far, and I've seen it do this, the LBS can lose control of themselves, saying and doing things they can never take back...and that is the goal of drama...to see how far the MLC'er can go before having the "bad" guy complex turned on the LBS.

Never mind the fact the MLC'er started all this crap; in the end of said drama the LBS gets the blame because they will say something that can never be taken back, and that will be filed away in the memory bank of the MLC'er to be brought as ammunition for another time..playing on the guilt of the LBS for having lost control of themselves.


Yet, even with the strongest of "non-engagers",  the anger will oftentimes come out anyway, but that is necessary as the anger MUST come out of them, one way or the other...as the fires of the crisis burn strongly within them for a time before burning out to embers.

How long, I cannot say; it is up to the person going through.

I know this is metaphorical thinking..yet, I remember  literally "burning" within until ALL my anger had come out, and was exhausted out...then, the "fires" within me burned totally out, taking something OUT of me....and I don't know what it was.  Don't think I haven't asked the Lord about it.

He only said that it was a "fire of change" that burned within me at that time...that was all..as this IS what the crisis/transition honestly is.

I had some physical symptoms of this "fire"..I had "hot spots" on my face and parts of my body that didn't go away until I was literally "burned out".  Strange, but true.

This was my own experience with drama while I was within my transition: I was always spoiling for an argument, until that time of 'burnout'; and my husband engaged me many times because he didn't understand what was going on with me.  I'd have moments of clarity, explain what I knew was true, that I was going through the change of life; that I needed to be left alone to work through it all......he'd forget, and the next time he called, and I snapped at him; he'd engage me once again..and we had literal screaming matches that got out of control...yet, neither one of us made a move to leave the other.

This went on for well over a year, as I remember.  My experience with this was different than my husband's but the PAIN was the same; intense, deep, irritating; aggravating me to death.  I didn't want to be within this fire, but I had NO choice; this change comes for all in varying different ways.

Different things come back at different times for me; but I don't remember it chronologically.

I remember the beginning and the remember the ending clearly, but between was a blur at times...and some of it is NOT very clear at all.

I do, and am allowed to remember MORE about his, than mine.

I hope this helps.

[Dontgiveup]

There are a couple of things that also add to the drama created by the MLCer.  One is that the MLCer will "push the buttons" of the spouse.  This is done to get the spouse on the "defensive", which in turn provides the MLCer with justification for what they are doing.

The other thing I believe contributes to the drama is that the MLCer typically pulls back on responsibilities.  This is a basic part of the MLC journey on the front end.  A couple of websites (I think I've seen it on this one) refers to this as the "urge to abandon".  Whether the marriage....or children....or job....or whatever it might be.  They may not actually abandon any or all of these, but they desire to do so....and some actually do abandon one or more.

[trusting]

Oh, the urge to abandon!  My H was going to abandon his job for a couple of years (never did and now doesn't talk about it anymore).  He abandoned his wife, kids, and faith.  So far he has reconnected with the kids (and I guess his job) . We'll see if his wife and faith follow . . .

He definitely said he didn't want those responsibilities anymore. 

[stillhere]

Don'tgiveup--I'm so glad you wrote that MLCer's try to push buttons to create drama.  H is rather subdued and nice this week as his plans to leave are coming together.  He's tried to push a few buttons though related to our son and his new place.  He does this in a casual "I'm disclosing everything" nice guy way.  I'm certain he wanted a reaction, but I didn't give it to him.  I knew this was what was happening, but it's nice to read it. 

[Peace B Still]

What happens when the MLCer stops spewing the anger and drama on you and directs it towards the kids?  My children have had a really hard time excepting that my husband has moved in with the OW and her children.  They feel abandoned and scared.  Instead of my H rebuilding trust with them, he continues to tell them that this is all my fault and says nasty and hurtful things to them for not really wanting to be bothered with him or wanting to visit.  How can I protect my children from the drama? They are only 9 and 11.

[Dontgiveup]

I'm not going to advise you on what to do, but I'll give you my opinion on "why" he might be doing it.  You'll have to decide what action to take and what boundaries to set.

MLCers ALWAYS seek justification.  Your husband is in many ways accomplishing a few things at once.  He's blaming you for how he feels through the kids AND pushing your buttons at the same time.  And of course since he's convinced himself you are to blame, he's also given himself the justification he's looking for.

[Writingmom]

scdelta,

That stinks.  I wish they could leave the kids out of it!  My H has done well thus far, but it seems like resistance from the kids makes him spew to them also.  My S spoke up about H being late last week and H pushed back, slamming me in the process.  I have to think they are only digging their own grave by doing this.

I agree with HB about us giving them what they want when we engage.  I am still beating myself up over last weekend's poking of the dragon.  H ended it with a bang, and I've only texted him a "yes" and a "fine" since.  Who knows if he cares or not.  I really doubt it.  He's bonding this weekend with OW, their baby and he is probably reveling in the fact that D8 has been there nonstop.

Besides drama, or as a part of, I don't understand why they seek approval.  H often goes out of his way to tell me how happy the kids are with him.  He clearly wants me to think that he's a good dad.  One minute he's stirring up crap and spewing, the next he wants an award for being Betty Crocker.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

SCDelta,

I know this forum is about standing and trying to save the marriage. However, the children are to be protected at all times. Neither my wife nor I have tried to put down each other in front of the kids. For example, my oldest was being very sarcastic to my wife. I made her apologize. My kids have not told me that their mother has made any disparaging remarks about me either. She may not interact with them as much as she used to, but she is not mean to them either. You need to draw the line with him on behavior to the kids. It is okay for her to vent and blame me. It hurts me really bad, but I have the support structures in place to survive. Your children are not equipped with the same coping strategies and the results can be devastating. Stand for yourself, but fight for your kids. If it continues and you feel it is harming your children, get a temporary restraining order against him and then make it permanent until he understands that behavior will never be acceptable.

Have a great weekend.

[Buggy31]

When you refuse to engage; it, in effect, takes away their ammunition for feeding their jusitification...and at first it makes them VERY angry; that they cannot get a rise out of the LBS...and like a child, they will keep trying.

As time goes on, and the refusal to engage becomes more firm; it does become a "limit" that is set upon the MLC'er...actually forcing them to accept that their behavior no longer affects the LBS...and they have to find another way to relate; much like that SAME teen who is testing the limits.

The refusal to engage the MLC'er is the ONLY type of boundary that can be set in early MLC that will hold strong.

However, it takes a great amount of strength to stop engaging.  It is all too easy to start arguing back, and see it get totally out of control to the point the MLC'er is more or less satisfied that the LBS is as "weak" as he/she THOUGHT they were, and the MLC'er sees it as regaining control of the situation as a whole once again.

Is this why at some points NC becomes necessary?  I find that since my husband has left he is getting angrier and angrier.  I was pushed to my limit last week when he spewed at me with such things that were so OBVIOUSLY projections that I told him I needed some emotional space from him.  Since then I have been NC with a couple moments of interaction over the children.  I felt weak the day he spewed because I told him "I will not talk to you right now about this"  this made him angrier and I gave in.  I knew in the moment I was making a mistake.  NC has helped me to move through my emotions without having to brace myself for his emotional state if that makes since.  I know how important it is because I feel very thrown off even if he texts me.  Do you think NC gives the LBS strength to develope into a non-engager?  I didn't put a time limit on NC but the plan is to do it until I feel emotionally strong enough to not get sucked in like I did so quickly.